Hey, DJH....(The Joe Mauer Memorial Thread)

[clenz]

.324 as a catcher is more impressive than .323 as an OF....


Just like an era if 3 is a hell of a lot more impressive from a starter than a closer

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Really? Do Mauer's hits count more?

You said Mauer had a higher batting average. I proved you wrong. Just admit it and move on.

When did 324 become less than 323? Someones using mensa math

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[AZGrizFan]

What an assinine argument. Go look at the attendance figures. Mauer's been playing since 2004, yet magically the Twins don't start drawing 10,000 more people a game when they move to Target Field? And you credit MAUER for that? His first five seasons in Minnesota? 23k, 25k, 28k, 28k, 28k. Oh and, BTW, Target field seats 55,000 and the Twinkies average 39,000. Is that your definition of a "sellout"?

Now go check Seattle's attendance figures in the first 5 years Ichiro was there: 43k, 43k, 40k, 36k, 31k.

You won't win an attendance argument against Ichiro. Hell, he has an entire NATION watch his every move. Mauer is irrelevant outside of Minneapolis.

You want to compare stats from the Metrodome? Have you ever been to the fucking Metrodome? Its a hellhole for baseball, its a GD miracle that they drew as well as they did in there. Every single one of Mauer's seasons in the dome the Twins averaged more than the Mariners did in the last 5 years in their beautiful stadium in Seattle.

Target field's capacity is 39K you stupid mother fucker, LOL.--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_Field

Target Field has averged 35K per game this year to watch a shitty team, and averaged 39K each of the previous two years. Safeco hasn't been above 30K since 2007, and hasn't been above 35K since 2004. Get the fuck out of here retard.

What is it with you two and the name calling? I admitted my mistake about the attendance...jesus, does it feel THAT good to finally be right about something that you have to resort to namecalling? And thanks for making my point: MAUER isn't drawing them in...the shiny new ballpark IS.

And to answer your question: no, I've never been to the Metrodome...but I've been to the Kingdome, and somehow the Mariners managed to draw real well there in their last 5 years. But feel free to credit Mauer with the attendance figures....but before you crown him King of Attendance, go look at Cleveland, Baltimore, Cincinnatti, etc., etc., all towns that got new ballparks, all towns that had long sellout lists (covering multiple years)....and eventually the newness wears off...and it WILL wear off while ol' Joltin' Joe is still wearing the Twinkie pinstripes. Then what?

Hell, it's happening already. The first year in they rocked the place to capacity, winning 94 games. last year, attendance dropped a bit, only winning 63 games. But THIS year, with that albatross of a contract and only winning 38 of their first 91 games, attendance is down over 10% to under 35,000 per game....the bloom is off the rose, fellas. Admit it.

[AZGrizFan]

Really? Do Mauer's hits count more?

You said Mauer had a higher batting average. I proved you wrong. Just admit it and move on.

When did 324 become less than 323? Someones using mensa math

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Sorry. I'll take Ichiro's 200+ hits every year to Mauer's 165, and give up that one one hundredth of a point in BA.

[DJH]

.324 as a catcher is more impressive than .323 as an OF....


Just like an era if 3 is a hell of a lot more impressive from a starter than a closer

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Really? Do Mauer's hits count more?

You said Mauer had a higher batting average. I proved you wrong. Just admit it and move on.

You're comparing a god damn corner outfielder (where you are expected to produce power) to a CATCHER! Do you not understand the historical significance of Mauer's offensive numbers at the position of catcher?

Joe Mauer has the HIGHEST BATTING AVERAGE FOR A CATCHER IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME OF BASEBALL.

[DJH]

What is it with you two and the name calling? I admitted my mistake about the attendance...jesus, does it feel THAT good to finally be right about something that you have to resort to namecalling?

Dude, I'm just messin with ya. If you are gonna cry like a little school girl I can stop.

[Gil Dobie]

FWIW, if Target Field was located where the Metrodome is, the attendence would be higher this year. The Metrodome is right off the major freeway the you can get to from any direction. Target field is accessable from a major freeway, only from the Westside of Minneapolis. There is a train from the South and from the North, otherwise, it's a cluster of people looking for parking. I drive the extra miles to get on the train from the south to avoid the mess. The trains are usually packed on gamedays.

[AZGrizFan]

Really? Do Mauer's hits count more?

You said Mauer had a higher batting average. I proved you wrong. Just admit it and move on.

You're comparing a god damn corner outfielder (where you are expected to produce power) to a CATCHER! Do you not understand the historical significance of Mauer's offensive numbers at the position of catcher?

Joe Mauer has the HIGHEST BATTING AVERAGE FOR A CATCHER IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME OF BASEBALL.

Yeah, I get that one is a catcher and one is a corner outfielder. Doesn't change the fact that clenzy's statement is blatantly WRONG.

You want to see stats for the greatest hitting catcher in history?


http://bb_catchers.tripod.com/catchers/300_30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Catchers With .300 BA & 30 HR Seasons


Year Player & Team AVG HR's RBI's AB's H
1930 Gabby Hartnett, CIN-N .339 37 122 508 172
1951 Roy Campanella, BKN-N .325 33 108 505 164
1953 Roy Campanella, BKN-N .312 41 142 519 162
1955 Roy Campanella, BKN-N .318 32 107 446 142
1966 Joe Torre, ATL-N .315 36 101 546 172
1993 Mike Piazza, LA-N .318 35 112 547 174
1995 Mike Piazza, LA-N .346 32 93 434 150
1996 Mike Piazza, LA-N .336 36 105 547 184
1997 Mike Piazza, LA-N .362 40 124 556 201
1998 Mike Piazza, LA-N, FLA-N, NY-N .328 32 111 560 184
1999 Mike Piazza, NY-N .303 40 124 534 162
1999 Ivan Rodriguez, TEX-A .332 35 113 600 199
1999 Mike Lieberthal, PHI-N .300 31 96 510 153
2000 Mike Piazza, NY-N .324 38 113 482 156
2000 Charles Johnson, CHI-A .304 31 91 421 128
2001 Mike Piazza, NY-N .300 36 94 503 151
2003 Javy Lopez, ATL-N .328 43 109 457 150

Mike Piazza. End of discussion. Career .308 hitter, despite not hitting above .286 the last 6 years of his career. 162 game AVERAGES of 32 HR, 113 RBI, .308 BA, .545 SLG, .922 OPS. If Mauer is worth $23 million per year, Piazza today would make $50 million per year. Poor bastard was just born in the wrong decade.

You keep bragging about Mauer's career batting average (.324) because that is ALL he produces offensively. Let me ask you apologists an honest question: Would you give up 20 points on his batting average for 25 more HR's, 35 more RBI every year?

[Gil Dobie]

If Mauer is worth $23 million per year, Piazza today would make $50 million per year. Poor bastard was just born in the wrong decade.

Piazza would be making a lot more in today's market, if in fact he was steroid free.

[AZGrizFan]

If Mauer is worth $23 million per year, Piazza today would make $50 million per year. Poor bastard was just born in the wrong decade.

Piazza would be making a lot more in today's market, if in fact he was steroid free.

This doesn't look like a guy on steroids.

[Gil Dobie]

Piazza would be making a lot more in today's market, if in fact he was steroid free.

This doesn't look like a guy on steroids.

It was reported back in the day that Piazza admitted off the record, to some beat reporters that he used steroids.

[AZGrizFan]

This doesn't look like a guy on steroids.

It was reported back in the day that Piazza admitted off the record, to some beat reporters that he used steroids.

Yeah, I know. Every slugger in the '90's is suspected.

[DJH]

Mike Piazza. End of discussion. Career .308 hitter, despite not hitting above .286 the last 6 years of his career. 162 game AVERAGES of 32 HR, 113 RBI, .308 BA, .545 SLG, .922 OPS. If Mauer is worth $23 million per year, Piazza today would make $50 million per year. Poor bastard was just born in the wrong decade.

You keep bragging about Mauer's career batting average (.324) because that is ALL he produces offensively. Let me ask you apologists an honest question: Would you give up 20 points on his batting average for 25 more HR's, 35 more RBI every year?

What exactly are you arguing here? That Mike Piazza is a great player? Was this in question?

Did Mike Piazza not get rewarded with a top tier salary when he played? He was one of the best players in the game, and was paid as such. Exactly as Joe Mauer is today.

[clenz]

Would you give up 20 points on his batting average for 25 more HR's, 35 more RBI every year?

No. If the Pohlad family was willing to spend money on someone besides Joe and Justin the production would be more than made up for. I don't get your obsession with power numbers. Joe's offensive W.A.R. is tops in the league right now for catchers....that wouldn't be the case if his average was .290 with 15 HR and 40 RBI right now.

The problem with the Twins IS NOT JOE MAUER...IT NEVER HAS BEEN...IT NEVER WILL BE UNLESS HE STARTS HITTING .275 WITH THE SAME POWER NUMBERS AND STOPS WINNING GOLD GLOVES.


Piazza was a great offensive catcher....if Joe could still hit .320 with 30 HR a year I'd take it....very very very few players can do this now that steroids are more or less "gone". Piazza was in the middle of a steriod issue around 01 or 02 I believe.

You talk about 162 game averages before...Joes 162 game averages are
194 hits 15 HR 88 RBI .324 BA .404 OB% 470 SLUG .874 OPS

Piazza
180 hits 36 HR 113 RBI .308 BA .377 OB% .454 SLUG .922 OPS

Outside of the HR there isn't a huge difference between the two. For hitting over twice the HR he doesn't average that many more RBI's. Yes it is more, but you made it sound like he would double Joe's RBIs

Ichiro was brought up
223 hits 9 HR 56 RBI .323 BA .366 OB% .418 SLUG .784 OPS

Holy shit...outside of hits he is the worst hitter of the bunch. Almost half the HR and RBI's of Joe with a lower average, lower OB% much lower slugging and much lower OPS. What were you trying to prove by bringing him up again?

*Pizza wasn't near the fielder Joe is either, he NEVER ONCE won a gold glove.
*Piazza had a career fielding % of .989 - league average of .990
*Joe is at .995 - league average .991 during that time
*Joe has less passed balls per game played than Piazza.
*Piazza threw out just 23% of base stealers over his career - league average over his career was 31% - 8 points BELOW league average...423 for his career (1630 games as a C)
*Joe is at 35% - league average over his career is also 31%...4 points ABOVE league average..312 for his career (just 813 games at catcher)...
*****Joe has played in half as many games as Mike at C and is on pace to throw out over 600 base runners.
* To get all "sabermetric nerdy" on you...Joe's defensive efforts have resulted in less runs per 9 innings being allowed than Piazza by over a half run per 9....and a full run per game played.


Was Mike a better power hitter? You bet.
Is Joe the better all around player? Yep...and it's not really that close.

If Mauer is worth $23 million per year, Piazza today would make $50 million per year. Poor bastard was just born in the wrong decade.

Piazza would be making a lot more in today's market, if in fact he was steroid free.

IF....I repeat IF...Mike was steroid free and putting those same numbers up in today's market he would be pulling 30-40 million a year....not question about it.

What exactly are you arguing here? That Mike Piazza is a great player? Was this in question?

Did Mike Piazza not get rewarded with a top tier salary when he played? He was one of the best players in the game, and was paid as such. Exactly as Joe Mauer is today.

At this point he doesn't know what he's arguing....he's litterally making up arguments as he goes and losing every single one. If this is how he argues with D1B, Capn, and KYJelly I'm tempted to believe they win (I don't read the politics threads)


I'm not even sure how Piazza was brought into this...but I'm glad he was because it allowed me to point out how flawed Piazza was in the field - especially compared to Joe. Allows Z to see....again...that there is more to being a good player than HR's.

[clenz]

What an assinine argument. Go look at the attendance figures. Mauer's been playing since 2004, yet magically the Twins don't start drawing 10,000 more people a game when they move to Target Field? And you credit MAUER for that? His first five seasons in Minnesota? 23k, 25k, 28k, 28k, 28k. Oh and, BTW, Target field seats 55,000 and the Twinkies average 39,000. Is that your definition of a "sellout"?

Now go check Seattle's attendance figures in the first 5 years Ichiro was there: 43k, 43k, 40k, 36k, 31k.

You won't win an attendance argument against Ichiro. Hell, he has an entire NATION watch his every move. Mauer is irrelevant outside of Minneapolis.

You want to compare stats from the Metrodome? Have you ever been to the fucking Metrodome? Its a hellhole for baseball, its a GD miracle that they drew as well as they did in there. Every single one of Mauer's seasons in the dome the Twins averaged more than the Mariners did in the last 5 years in their beautiful stadium in Seattle.

Target field's capacity is 39K you stupid mother fucker, LOL.--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_Field

Target Field has averged 35K per game this year to watch a shitty team, and averaged 39K each of the previous two years. Safeco hasn't been above 30K since 2007, and hasn't been above 35K since 2004. Get the fuck out of here retard.

Not just that...the Mariners record while drawing well compared to now

00: 35,983 (first year in safeco) 91-71
01: 43,362 116-46
02: 43,710 93-69
03: 40,351 93-69
04: 36,305 63-99
05: 33,619 69-93
06: 30,626 78-84
07: 32,992 88-74
08: 28,761 61-101
09: 27,102 85-77 51-101 67-95
10: 25,749 51-101
11: 23,411 67-95

By the way Safeco seasts 54,097....Even the years they won 116 games they were 11K short of a sell out.

Also, the Marinerrs were averaing about 35K per game in the Kingdome as well during the Griffey years....less than 15K before Griffey. Griffey mattered when it came to attendance.


Odd...Joe doesn't matter when it comes to attendance - it's because of good teams and new ball park - however, Ichiro affects the attendance - yet even with him they can't draw for shit unless they win 90 games a year.


The Twins didn't draw in the dome because it was THE WORST VENUE IN ALL OF PRO SPORTS. It's a shitty football stadium and I don't think I've ever/will ever watch a baseball game in a worse venue.


The Twins were TERRIBLE last year and still drew 39,113 (Target Field capacity is 39,504). This year the Twins are even worse this year - worst record in the AL - and are still drawing over 34K per game. Seattle has a better record and averages 12K LESS per game than Minnesota. At this point the "lure" of Target field is gone to pretty much everyone except people from hours away who haven't been to a game at Target field yet (I would be in that group). However, for probably 95% of the people at Twins games the "lure" is worn off.

[Gil Dobie]

[DJH]

What were you doing in Kansas City, Z?

[grizzaholic]

Because AZ is a bigger man...I will do his bidding.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/worst-cont ... riano.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The waiver wire is crackling and humming, making this an optimum time to identify the worst contracts in baseball, players nobody wants because at one time so many teams coveted them that they were vastly overpaid. Funny how a player can go from priceless to pariah, sometimes only months after signing.

Waivers remind us of the most ridiculous contracts because the murky process is a lot like big fish languidly swimming far beneath the surface of the ocean. Big fish that aren't good eating.




2. Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins; signed through 2018, owed $145 million: Everybody rejoiced when the parsimonious Twins sprung for an eight-year, $184 million deal for hometown favorite Mauer before the 2011 season. Wonderful has already been whittled to what-in-the-world? He plays catcher only half the time and doesn't hit with power. He'll remain a .320 hitter for a few years, but that's not enough for $23 million a year, more than 20 percent of the Twins' payroll.

[Gil Dobie]

Because AZ is a bigger man...I will do his bidding.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/worst-cont ... riano.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The waiver wire is crackling and humming, making this an optimum time to identify the worst contracts in baseball, players nobody wants because at one time so many teams coveted them that they were vastly overpaid. Funny how a player can go from priceless to pariah, sometimes only months after signing.

Waivers remind us of the most ridiculous contracts because the murky process is a lot like big fish languidly swimming far beneath the surface of the ocean. Big fish that aren't good eating.




2. Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins; signed through 2018, owed $145 million: Everybody rejoiced when the parsimonious Twins sprung for an eight-year, $184 million deal for hometown favorite Mauer before the 2011 season. Wonderful has already been whittled to what-in-the-world? He plays catcher only half the time and doesn't hit with power. He'll remain a .320 hitter for a few years, but that's not enough for $23 million a year, more than 20 percent of the Twins' payroll.

10% of Arizona's salary goes to a 29 year old SS hitting .202 and played in 29 games.
Another 10% to a 28 year old CF, batting .213. that has played 33 games less than Mauer.

Mauer looks like a great deal compared to these 2.

[SDHornet]

Because AZ is a bigger man...I will do his bidding.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/worst-cont ... riano.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The waiver wire is crackling and humming, making this an optimum time to identify the worst contracts in baseball, players nobody wants because at one time so many teams coveted them that they were vastly overpaid. Funny how a player can go from priceless to pariah, sometimes only months after signing.

Waivers remind us of the most ridiculous contracts because the murky process is a lot like big fish languidly swimming far beneath the surface of the ocean. Big fish that aren't good eating.




2. Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins; signed through 2018, owed $145 million: Everybody rejoiced when the parsimonious Twins sprung for an eight-year, $184 million deal for hometown favorite Mauer before the 2011 season. Wonderful has already been whittled to what-in-the-world? He plays catcher only half the time and doesn't hit with power. He'll remain a .320 hitter for a few years, but that's not enough for $23 million a year, more than 20 percent of the Twins' payroll.

10% of Arizona's salary goes to a 29 year old SS hitting .202 and played in 29 games.
Another 10% to a 28 year old CF, batting .213. that has played 33 games less than Mauer.

Mauer looks like a great deal compared to these 2.

Let's see...Twins 12.5 games out of the division lead, D-Backs 4 games out of the division lead...yeah I'll take the AZ payroll selection any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the Twins payroll selection.

[Gil Dobie]

Let's see...Twins 12.5 games out of the division lead, D-Backs 4 games out of the division lead...yeah I'll take the AZ payroll selection any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the Twins payroll selection.

Most people would. Would you take Mauer to build a team around, or Drew and Chris Young? Mauer has been in the post-season 3 times with the Twins, Drew and Young once with the D-Backs.

The Twins fired their GM after last season and rehired Terry Ryan, who was the GM when the Twins were winning until 2011. Look for them to be battling for the division crown in a couple years.

[AZGrizFan]

Let's see...Twins 12.5 games out of the division lead, D-Backs 4 games out of the division lead...yeah I'll take the AZ payroll selection any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the Twins payroll selection.

Most people would. Would you take Mauer to build a team around, or Drew and Chris Young? Mauer has been in the post-season 3 times with the Twins, Drew and Young once with the D-Backs.

The Twins fired their GM after last season and rehired Terry Ryan, who was the GM when the Twins were winning until 2011. Look for them to be battling for the division crown in a couple years.

I wouldn't take ANY of them to build a team around. Problem is, the Twins DID. D-Backs didn't.

[Gil Dobie]

Most people would. Would you take Mauer to build a team around, or Drew and Chris Young? Mauer has been in the post-season 3 times with the Twins, Drew and Young once with the D-Backs.

The Twins fired their GM after last season and rehired Terry Ryan, who was the GM when the Twins were winning until 2011. Look for them to be battling for the division crown in a couple years.

I wouldn't take ANY of them to build a team around. Problem is, the Twins DID. D-Backs didn't.

......and 20% of each teams salary.

[AZGrizFan]

I wouldn't take ANY of them to build a team around. Problem is, the Twins DID. D-Backs didn't.

......and 20% of each teams salary.

You are comparing apples and oranges, my friend. Stephen Drew is a free agent after this year and is working the 2nd year of a 2 year, $13.5 million contract. That works out to $6.75 million/year. This year he's making $7.75 million. Chris Young is in the 4th year of a 5 year, $28 million contract, or $5.6 million/year. This year he's making $7 million.

Oh, and lets talk about "out" clauses. D-Backs have a $1.35 mil buyout option on Drew's $10 million 2013 contract. They have a $1.5 mil buyout option on Youngs $11 million 2013 contract. In other words, for $2.85 million, the D-Backs will rid themselves of the two albatross contracts you are comparing to Mauers.

On the other hand, the Twins are obligated to Joe Mauer for the jaw-dropping amount of $23 MILLION EVERY YEAR for the next SIX years. Oh, and Mauer's $23 million is actually 35% of the Twinkies salary in 2012.

So, keep digging.

[Brock Landers]

Someone bring out the VORP

edit: wait, this thread is 3 pages long. I ALWAYS do that

[AZGrizFan]

Someone bring out the VORP

Overbay has to be shattering it with that OPS for a measly $1MM...

Overbay got released. Apparently he's no Joe Mauer.