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There's an article entitled "Its Time For Top Eastern FCS Schools To Form a Coalition To Move To FBS" on The Bleacher Report that is interesting to lots of schools and their supporters....I'm not saying it will ever happen, but it presents some interesting thoughts...

The article starts out focusing on UMass, but goes into detail on a number of schools...

There are a great number of schools within a reasonable travel footprint that would be capable of starting an all-sports FBS conference with UMass today (if the NCAA would allow it. For the record, the NCAA's rules do not. The BCS schools have pushed to have the NCAA set up rules requiring years of lead time specifically to discourage school like UMASS from moving up).

An FBS conference only requires eight football playing members.

Looking at attendance numbers in FCS this season, there about 12-15 schools in that footprint that have pulled more than 15,000 per game. (15,000 has been the NCAA's soft minimum number for FBS membership for a while although there was talk of it going up to 17,000. I am not sure if that has occurred yet.)

Read the complete report....

The eastern schools, especially the schools that have top D1 basketball programs like UMass, have a better chance at moving up. Look at UConn who moved up right into a BCS conferece because of b-ball. Out west the schools are too spread out to have a quality "footprint" for any one conference. I would hate to see the top FCS schools move to make a FBS conferece, however, it would make a pretty good FBS conference

P.S> got a kick out of him saying that Marshall is the poster child for successful FCS upgrades. They did have early success but have since struggled.

First thought before reading article - Big Boys would raise attendance requirements to keep FBS at 120 or so.

Now, to read article

i had always understood there to be a 30k minimum capacity requirement at FBS facilities... if so... there are no FCS teams (aside from a few ivies and hbcus) that are there (not even Wa-Griz)

I understand the draw and all... but

1) i think Jon is right, the BCS boys already have created a caste system in their own subdivision so as to protect their fiefdom of major college football... they aren't too keen on sharing any more than they have to

2) with the success of the MWC - and the growing parity in D-I no football minded AD is going to embrace doing anything to make FBS MORE competitive or do anything to let the hoop-heads in to the party

3) this is all predicated on the northeast giving two shits about football... which they don't. (sorry, I watched part of BC/FSU a gigantic game for the Eagles... they couldn't sell out Alumni Stadium for that... the NE doesn't care about college football)

4. they can recruit now for FCS - but I wonder if the quantity of FBS-caliber talent is available in the northeast... with so many schools wormed in to siphon off what talent their is in the northeast already... I think they'd be hard-pressed to find the talent to rise above the Sun Belt...

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:3) this is all predicated on the northeast giving two shits about football... which they don't. (sorry, I watched part of BC/FSU a gigantic game for the Eagles... they couldn't sell out Alumni Stadium for that... the NE doesn't care about college football)

BC did sell out their stadium for the FSU game...with the torrential downpours that were happening prior to and during the first half of the game...lots of folks decided to stay dry and stay home and watch it on TV...

I've seen that happen in other parts of the country...even on the pro level...

If it had been a sunny day, you would have seen a packed house for that game...

Col Hogan wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:3) this is all predicated on the northeast giving two shits about football... which they don't. (sorry, I watched part of BC/FSU a gigantic game for the Eagles... they couldn't sell out Alumni Stadium for that... the NE doesn't care about college football)

BC did sell out their stadium for the FSU game...with the torrential downpours that were happening prior to and during the first half of the game...lots of folks decided to stay dry and stay home and watch it on TV...

I've seen that happen in other parts of the country...even on the pro level...

If it had been a sunny day, you would have seen a packed house for that game...

fair enough - that's a hard one for me to comprehend... being a Twins/Bison fan... I've never seen a pro or college game outside... (other than spring training and D-III and HS football)

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:i had always understood there to be a 30k minimum capacity requirement at FBS facilities... if so... there are no FCS teams (aside from a few ivies and hbcus) that are there (not even Wa-Griz)



4. they can recruit now for FCS - but I wonder if the quantity of FBS-caliber talent is available in the northeast... with so many schools wormed in to siphon off what talent their is in the northeast already... I think they'd be hard-pressed to find the talent to rise above the Sun Belt...

University of Idaho - Moscow only has a capacity of 16K.

I think #4 is the biggest issue with moving up, you can be successful at the FCS level, but with the new competition for top tier players... what's going to separate you from these other established FBS schools? Especially the ones that have no geographic boundaries for recruiting (ND, USC, UF, etc).

Coach: "We have an established winning program that whipped up the competition like flap jacks in the FCS"
Player: "What's the FCS?"

This is something I've given a lot of thought to, especially this year. All of us within FCS who have even entertained the thought of our team playing a Florida, USC, or Oklahoma in the BCS title game should look no further than Boise State's situation.

Those of us who have followed FCS/I-AA for a long time, as well as those long time followers of the Big Sky Conference can recall the times when Boise State would be near the top, year in and year out. They took the bait and left the Big Sky Conference after 26 years for brighter lights and bigger stages in 1996.

Has it worked out? Look at where they are currently. They have carried over the success from I-AA to I-A, by becoming a major player in the WAC. They have beaten almost everyone who has played them at their gigantic stadium. They are consistently in the top 25 rankings. They have beaten Oklahoma in the FBS Fiesta Bowl when people did not know if they even belonged in a BCS bowl. Recently they beat Oregon in what so far has been the only game LeGarrette Blount has played in. They are constantly mentioned as a "BCS Bowl Buster". Yet with all this success, Boise State has yet to play in the FBS title game. Boise State has not so much as even come close to being in the FBS title game.

My question to you, after all that has happened with a major player as Boise State the last 14 years, would you rather build up a team to contend year after year for a national championship, or would you rather head for the big stage knowing that you will need to wait at least 15 years before you get any respect from the BCS (if then even) to try to play for a national title there?

JALMOND wrote:This is something I've given a lot of thought to, especially this year. All of us within FCS who have even entertained the thought of our team playing a Florida, USC, or Oklahoma in the BCS title game should look no further than Boise State's situation.

Those of us who have followed FCS/I-AA for a long time, as well as those long time followers of the Big Sky Conference can recall the times when Boise State would be near the top, year in and year out. They took the bait and left the Big Sky Conference after 26 years for brighter lights and bigger stages in 1996.

Has it worked out? Look at where they are currently. They have carried over the success from I-AA to I-A, by becoming a major player in the WAC. They have beaten almost everyone who has played them at their gigantic stadium. They are consistently in the top 25 rankings. They have beaten Oklahoma in the FBS Fiesta Bowl when people did not know if they even belonged in a BCS bowl. Recently they beat Oregon in what so far has been the only game LeGarrette Blount has played in. They are constantly mentioned as a "BCS Bowl Buster". Yet with all this success, Boise State has yet to play in the FBS title game. Boise State has not so much as even come close to being in the FBS title game.

My question to you, after all that has happened with a major player as Boise State the last 14 years, would you rather build up a team to contend year after year for a national championship, or would you rather head for the big stage knowing that you will need to wait at least 15 years before you get any respect from the BCS (if then even) to try to play for a national title there?

I tend to agree with your excellent post...

What it seems to come down to is this....there are those who understand true competition and want to win the championship (FCS)...

and there are those who feel there's a ton more money to be made at the next level even if the only thing you play for is the Kotex/Midol Classic Bowl in East Podunk... (FBS)...

Col Hogan wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:3) this is all predicated on the northeast giving two shits about football... which they don't. (sorry, I watched part of BC/FSU a gigantic game for the Eagles... they couldn't sell out Alumni Stadium for that... the NE doesn't care about college football)

BC did sell out their stadium for the FSU game...with the torrential downpours that were happening prior to and during the first half of the game...lots of folks decided to stay dry and stay home and watch it on TV...

I've seen that happen in other parts of the country...even on the pro level...

If it had been a sunny day, you would have seen a packed house for that game...

Penn State always packs the house, even in the worst weather conditions. A little rain is no excuse.

putter wrote:The eastern schools, especially the schools that have top D1 basketball programs like UMass, have a better chance at moving up. Look at UConn who moved up right into a BCS conferece because of b-ball.

Just a point of clarification... UConn was a charter member of the Big East and that's why they got in for football.

89Hen wrote:

putter wrote:The eastern schools, especially the schools that have top D1 basketball programs like UMass, have a better chance at moving up. Look at UConn who moved up right into a BCS conferece because of b-ball.

Just a point of clarification... UConn was a charter member of the Big East and that's why they got in for football.

Thanks for the correction. For me the move up conversation is more a pissing contest. Some fans want to be considered "relevant' on the national scene. FCS (except HBCU) schools usually are not on ESPN or are known by the majority of college football fans around the country and some fans want that more than making the playoffs. Some fans clamor for the Griz to move up because of the Big Sky conference but how many national championships have the Griz won? 2 and the last in 2001. If a team has won 5 or 6 in a row and are clearly not challenged then the argument has some validity however moving up will put a strain on fans that are used to winning (Montana) and when that program has growing pains how many of those fans will stick around???

JMU DJ wrote: University of Idaho - Moscow only has a capacity of 16K.

Idaho played their home games @ WSU Cougars stadium for several years before the 15k minimum was removed....I don't believe there's a "minimum" any more.

putter wrote: Some fans clamor for the Griz to move up because of the Big Sky conference but how many national championships have the Griz won? 2 and the last in 2001.

Montana's total FCS NC's is exactly twice that of Boise State's. Montana has won 11 consecutive conference championships and 16 consecutivie trips to the playoffs, levels of consistency never reached by Boise St. or any other FCS program I am aware of. So your rules for qualifying for a move-up are just that - yours, which would have excluded Boise St.

kemajic wrote:

putter wrote: Some fans clamor for the Griz to move up because of the Big Sky conference but how many national championships have the Griz won? 2 and the last in 2001.

Montana's total FCS NC's is exactly twice that of Boise State's. Montana has won 11 consecutive conference championships and 16 consecutivie trips to the playoffs, levels of consistency never reached by Boise St. or any other FCS program I am aware of. So your rules for qualifying for a move-up are just that - yours, which would have excluded Boise St.

And every other FCS team that's moved up since the creation of I-AA in 1978.

kemajic wrote:

putter wrote: Some fans clamor for the Griz to move up because of the Big Sky conference but how many national championships have the Griz won? 2 and the last in 2001.

Montana's total FCS NC's is exactly twice that of Boise State's. Montana has won 11 consecutive conference championships and 16 consecutivie trips to the playoffs, levels of consistency never reached by Boise St. or any other FCS program I am aware of. So your rules for qualifying for a move-up are just that - yours, which would have excluded Boise St.

Then again Montana has been in FCS/I-AA almost twice as long as Boise State was. (Boise State-18 years, Montana 31 years and counting).

I've always been split about a move up to FBS for the Griz. Not because I don't think they could compete, because I think they would and that would be decided on the field and UM would have the same odds as everyone else of winning any given game. But, the main deterrent imo would be the lack of a playoff system. As already mentioned west coast teams outside of maybe USC get no respect even if they go undefeated (ie. Boise State and Utah recently). And I know most of the bowl committee wouldn't even be able to point out Montana on a map, much less know about the UM football team.

On the other hand, it would be awesome for the team to get more media exposure, better tv productions, play in bigger and better facilities, and not be shafted for March Madness just because of conference affiliation (ie. Lady Griz winning 27-28 games a season, even knocking off big name teams from FBS conferences and still being given a 11-16 seed, when really they are more comparable to the 7-10 seeded teams).



But really what people should be trying to get behind is bringing in extra media outlets and getting the big time tv exposure for the current FCS. We have a good thing going with the playoff situation and if we could build to the levels of the FBS in terms of facilities and exposure, all that people might differentiate between the two subdivisions in the future is whether or not there is a playoff or a bowl game at season's end. Maybe put regulations on quality of facilities and attendance numbers or force teams to go DII if they don't meet them. Add scholly's (yeah, I know, easier said then done). Get videos out to the rest of the nation, instill the pride of the alumni, encourage extra neighbors and friends to join you at a game (maybe that first taste of FCS football might get them hooked when they might not have ever considered going before or even had a reason to). Things like this message board might seem small or insignificant but I believe it is a step in the right direction for getting more FCS info out there. Maybe one day someone will look back at the history of Division I football and note that this message board and its community were a part in creating equality between the two subdivisions.

And I hate the "will we be competitive?" argument. Unless your Montana or Georgia Southern back in their good days, its hard to stay consistently competitive year after year. Nothing is ever guaranteed and even Montana with its program and tradition has down years. Heck, look at NDSU...a couple years back they were one of the better teams in the nation...this year if you would have scheduled them they would have been considered a cupcake. Same with South Dakota State...couple years back they were UM's poster b**** on their tunnel video and considered by many to be another Montana cupcake opponent but this year they are showing some good things and I think will be ranked high in the top 25 by season's end.

But, yeah, even with Boise State's present success, the year they supposedly should have been at their peak in FCS before moving up, Montana beat them like 56-28 IN Boise. Montana ended up winning the BSC and Division I National Championship that year, so Boise wasn't even the best team in the conference, let alone the nation before moving up.

putter wrote:For me the move up conversation is more a pissing contest. Some fans want to be considered "relevant' on the national scene.

No doubt, but it's not just the fans, it's the schools themselves. Anyone catch the Troy game on last night? The upper deck was completely empty.

kemajic wrote:

putter wrote: Some fans clamor for the Griz to move up because of the Big Sky conference but how many national championships have the Griz won? 2 and the last in 2001.

Montana's total FCS NC's is exactly twice that of Boise State's. Montana has won 11 consecutive conference championships and 16 consecutivie trips to the playoffs, levels of consistency never reached by Boise St. or any other FCS program I am aware of. So your rules for qualifying for a move-up are just that - yours, which would have excluded Boise St.

Well, of course their mine - I guess, however, I don't know anyone who still doesn't get excited when playoff pairings are announced. I think it is a good thing for programs like EWU and Weber (maybe MSU) to have their programs moving to the next level of consistency as this can only be good for the Big Sky. It is possible that you are making some fans argument that it is more about the Big Sky than the FCS. Also, they aren't my rules - it just seemed that people I talk to want Montana to move up so that they are more exposed on the national scene and they can't get that being in the FCS.