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With the recent talks of Texas and Oklahoma potentially moving to the SEC, and talks of USC and UCLA potentially joining a Big 10 Conference that includes Rutgers… experienced college football fans like me get excited. It’s fun watching big time programs strategically making moves that put them more in line to capitalize on the new college football era that were in today. Fact is, the PAC 12 is a weak conference, and teams like Washington State, UCLA, Arizona and Arizona State are the cause. Somehow these once respected Power 5 programs just fell off a cliff never to recover. The lack of top tier players on these rosters make ya wonder…where’s the new version of Reggie Bush, or Christian McCaffrey in the PAC12? Or Vince Young, Patrick Mahomes, Kyler Murray…? Fact is, these P5 programs have fallen behind in recruiting, and the lack of elite level talent is why.

The Southeastern Conference is dominating this new College Football Playoff world and it’s starting to become obvious. When a program-defining recruit is being courted the game begins, your favorite program offers a full ride and the recruit begins to judge what your program offers. If the star recruit only has B10 offers, who does he choose? Does he pick Indiana over Michigan State!? What about Purdue over Michigan? Does he have a better chance at a large NFL contract at Iowa or Ohio State? Surely facilities play a part in all this.

Well, they do. First thing’s first, top recruits will always choose the best overall programs… that includes facilities, televised games and the likelihood of being a top pick in the NFL draft. The best programs nationally will get the best recruits, wins & championships. On the P5 level that’s extremely difficult because large, beautiful facilities cost big bucks. Next, on the Go5 level, it’s also difficult because (by some coincidence) you don’t have the huge budgets and alumni to demand, then pay for those nice, on-campus stadiums. Maybe the university won’t provide you with a stadium at all. Maybe you have to play in some NFL team’s stadium or even worse. Lastly at the FCS level, you have all those problems and more, including sometimes being a school that no one has ever heard of. For some FCS programs it can be a death spiral, no money for facilities, no revenue from facilities, and so on. Programs that don’t heavily invest in facilities that rival those in their division, and also those of their conference-mates will always suffer.

A rule I would love to see imposed on all NCAA Division 1 football is a mandatory minimum on stadium capacity. Also a strong recommendation towards on-campus sites. Surely this would take time but I strongly believe that it would not only make Division 1 Football better, but would also make lots of programs better by forcing them to choose if they’d actually prefer to stay in their current division. I’d love to see division requirements like this:

Strictly Enforced with a 3 - 5 year maximum. One year grace period during new build or expansion only.

Power 5 - 50,000 capacity min.
Group of 5 - 30,000 capacity min.
FCS - 10,000 capacity min.
This bridges the gap between FCS and Go5 some. It also bridges Go5 and P5, watching a Go5 game will be more in line with some smaller P5 games.

This would immediately put a strain on athletic programs throughout the nation, and it would be totally justifiable. P5 programs would always have the option to simply drop down the Go5 and not spend a dime. Same with Go5 and FCS programs, Go5 programs could simply drop down to FCS Football, FCS teams that choose not to comply will be placed in Division 2.

Neg on the idea: it would force Rutgers, SMU and New Mexico State to do this and would make Southern Utah, UNLV and East Tennessee State to do that…

Benefits: it would strengthen major college football immediately, remove the weeds and make P5 conferences smaller and more competitive. It would strengthen Go5 as well, when multiple programs unwilling to budge and invest in their programs, go bye bye. Finally, it would improve FCS football dramatically! Any programs not willing to seriously put their best foot forward will be gone. Lastly, the remaining serious FCS programs will be even better, and the fallen Go5 programs will add real recognition and competition. All that adds up to stronger conferences with fewer stragglers and more National Championship contenders.

Fun, BF? No way. This is disgusting. Conferences should have no more than 9 for football, and 10 for hoops. These megaconferences are ruining the game....

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:34 pm Fun, BF? No way. This is disgusting. Conferences should have no more than 9 for football, and 10 for hoops. These megaconferences are ruining the game....

Agreed. Strict NCAA, and conference requirements would correct that:

Big Sky
- Northern Colorado, expand from 5k to 10k, on campus, with at least one video board or GTFO. (FCS Genie Sez: UNC drops to D2)
- Eastern Washington, expand from 8k to 10k on campus. (FCS Genie Sez: EWU adds 1,400 seats)
- Portland State, build minimum 10k, on campus. (FCS Genie Sez: PSU drops to D2)
-- BSC drops down to 10 teams.

Big South
-Bryant (FCS Genie Sez: Bryant drops to D2)
-Campbell, (FCS Genie Sez: UC drops to D2)
-Charleston Southern, (FCS Genie Sez: CSU drops to D2)
-Gardner Webb, expand from 9k to 10k. (FCS Genie Sez: GW adds 1k seats, conf change)
-RMU, (FCS Genie Sez: RMU potentially adds 7k seats, conf change)
--Big South dissolves

CAA
-Albany, (FCS Genie Sez: Albany adds 1,500 seats)
-Monmouth, (FCS Genie Sez: Monmouth drops to D2)
-Rhode Island, (FCS Genie Sez: URI adds 3,400 seats)
-Richmond, (FCS Genie Sez: UR add 1,800 seats)
--CAA drops to 12 teams.

MVFC
-North Dakota, build minimum 10k facility, on campus, w/video board (FCS Genie Sez: UND drops to D2)
--MVFC drops to 10 teams.

NEC
-Central Connecticut State, (FCS Genie Sez: CCSU drops to D2)
-Duquesne, (FCS Genie Sez: DU drops to D2)
-LIU, (FCS Genie Sez: LIU drops to D2)
-Merrimack, (FCS Genie Sez: MC drops to D2)
-Sacred Heart, (FCS Genie Sez: SHU drops to D2)
-St Francis, (FCS Genie Sez: SFU drops to D2)
-Stonehill, (FCS Genie Sez: SC drops to D2)
-Wagner, (FCS Genie Sez: WC drops to D2)
--Northeast Conference totally dissolves.

Ohio Valley
-Lindenwood, (FCS Genie Sez: LU adds 2,500 seats)
-UT Martin, (FCS Genie Sez: UTM adds 2,500 seats)
--Ohio Valley adds a program or two and remains.

SoCon
-Samford, (FCS Genie Sez: Samford adds 3,300 seats)
--SoCon remains.

Southland
-Houston Baptist, (FCS Genie Sez: HBU potentially drops to D2)
-Incarnate Word, (FCS Genie Sez: UIW potentially drops to D2)
-Southeastern Louisiana, (FCS Genie Sez: SLU adds 10,000 seats)
--Southland remains.

Just a few problems with that, BF.

1. I have a feeling that there may well be a political thing going on in North Dakota that would prevent UND from dropping, sort of like the politics that drove Idalol to jump to FBS when they clearly weren't ready, just to keep them "equal" to Boise State, which clearly WAS ready.

2. Some of these schools that you forecast as dropping to D-II will not be able to given the rather strict rule that outside of one "showcase" sport (like D-I lacrosse for D-III schools), you can't have most of your teams in D-I and football in D-II. These schools will either bite the bullet or go I-AAA (i.e. disband football). That's sad, but it's a likely result from strict enforcement of stadium rules.

Your conclusions re conference outcomes may well happen regardless of whether or not I'm right.

What is the point of forcing a 10,000 seat stadium when the team has no fans and only draws 1500 a game?

Good question, AZ. The problem is that that's what one expects of D-I, but given the all-or-nothing rule in terms of being D-I (with the exception of D-III schools having a D-I "showcase sport" like lacrosse), it's hard to enforce. I'd be happy with a 7,500 Hornet Stadium with proper heads instead of the same old portables we've had for a zillion years....

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:21 pm Good question, AZ. The problem is that that's what one expects of D-I, but given the all-or-nothing rule in terms of being D-I (with the exception of D-III schools having a D-I "showcase sport" like lacrosse), it's hard to enforce. I'd be happy with a 7,500 Hornet Stadium with proper heads instead of the same old portables we've had for a zillion years....

Who? Who expects that of D-I? I sure as hell don’t. There’s about 10 schools that can fill a 10,000 seat stadium. The rest struggle to draw anything that looks like a crowd.

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:03 pm Just a few problems with that, BF.

1. I have a feeling that there may well be a political thing going on in North Dakota that would prevent UND from dropping, sort of like the politics that drove Idalol to jump to FBS when they clearly weren't ready, just to keep them "equal" to Boise State, which clearly WAS ready.

2. Some of these schools that you forecast as dropping to D-II will not be able to given the rather strict rule that outside of one "showcase" sport (like D-I lacrosse for D-III schools), you can't have most of your teams in D-I and football in D-II. These schools will either bite the bullet or go I-AAA (i.e. disband football). That's sad, but it's a likely result from strict enforcement of stadium rules.

Your conclusions re conference outcomes may well happen regardless of whether or not I'm right.

I agree with your train of thought, you’ve brought up some great points. First, I agree with UND, BUT that’s the entire point. North Dakota should be FORCE to make a decision, COMMIT to a division 1 football program or get out of D1. If that means 1-AAA, expansion/renovation, or D2, make a decision that’s best for the university. Hard choices like this only strengthen FCS and D1 football.

Idaho for example was allowed to transition to FBS without expanding to what’s expected of an FBS facility, and they were ultimately FORCED to make a decision. Guess what they chose? Drop down to FCS. I think it was a great move for their program, their stadium doesn’t FIT (and therefore can’t compete) with FBS/FBS expectations. They’re facility also wasn’t on par, and didn’t “rival” their conference mates, when that happens a program cannot compete in said conference and which leads to failure in the division. Want some examples…when’s the last time these teams were dominating their conferences?

Southern Utah
Northern Colorado
Portland State
Hawaii
San Diego State
Oregon State
Washington State
Wake Forest
Indiana
Duke
… just to name a few.

Does building or having 10k+ seat stadium (30k+ GO5 & 50+ P5) automatically make your program National Championship contenders? No. Does it guarantee your program a conference championship? No. It won’t even guarantee a packed house, It simply means that outliers can’t compete. Are their anomalies? Sure, but on average these team can’t win championships, this weakens the conference and the division. Allowing Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, Idaho, and James Madison into your conference before they’re ready doesn’t do them any favors.

There are 130 teams in the FCS and maybe 80 or so that compete for an FCS National Championship, enforcing these standards will create:

1) A Stronger Subdivision - Removing a conference or two. Eliminating traditionally weak programs that don’t invest in their football facilities, and adding some drop-down FBS programs that refused to do what it takes to remain GO5.

2) A More Exciting Regular Season - Removing some garbage programs will make room for more teams to play each other, both in OOC & conference matchups. More games would be played at better facilities which could lead to a better atmosphere on game day. That goes for GO5 & P5 as well.

I’d also love to see a 50% rule put in place. If a team doesn’t average 50% attendance for an entire season, they should be placed on a two year probation. The program could still be eligible for playoffs and Bowl games, but if the university doesn’t get creative and attendance isn’t brought up to 50% after a maximum of two (maybe three) seasons… adios.
There should be a defined line between Division 1 and everything else, INVEST IN YOUR PROGRAM or pay the price.

Oh, boy, BF. You're talking relegation. That's a "foreign" concept. They're going to boo you out!

ROFL....

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:43 pm

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:21 pm Good question, AZ. The problem is that that's what one expects of D-I,

Who? Who expects that of D-I? I sure as hell don’t. There’s about 10 schools that can fill a 10,000 seat stadium. The rest struggle to draw anything that looks like a crowd.

You’ve just proven my point.
Not only that, you can’t draw 10,000+ fans when you don’t have an on-campus stadium, with 10,000+ capacity.

https://psuvanguard.com/the-complex-his ... adium/amp/

I’d also love to see the

ELIMINATION Of FCS vs. D2 games. THREE FCS OOC GAMES TO OPEN THE SEASON… That’s something that’s likely under this new rule set. Eastern Washington opens the season against Tennessee State on The Inferno at Roos Field.. how cool is that? Fewer FCS teams, and more scheduling opportunities will make for a fun fvcking season. All games are D1, and all games count towards the playoffs. That: by definition, makes the playoff system even better. That would truly make the Division 1 FCS Playoff system better than FBS. Maybe more fringe GO5 programs agree to drop down, “Maybe we can win some more games, win some conference championship trophies, hell, maybe even aNational Championship…”

Am I wrong?

BlackFalkin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:24 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:43 pm

Who? Who expects that of D-I? I sure as hell don’t. There’s about 10 schools that can fill a 10,000 seat stadium. The rest struggle to draw anything that looks like a crowd.

You’ve just proven my point.
Not only that, you can’t draw 10,000+ fans when you don’t have an on-campus stadium, with 10,000+ capacity.

https://psuvanguard.com/the-complex-his ... adium/amp/

Most schools couldn’t fill a 4000 seat stadium. I fail to see your point in hanging your hat on such an arbitrary number.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:14 pm

BlackFalkin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:24 pm
You’ve just proven my point.
Not only that, you can’t draw 10,000+ fans when you don’t have an on-campus stadium, with 10,000+ capacity.

https://psuvanguard.com/the-complex-his ... adium/amp/

Most schools couldn’t fill a 4000 seat stadium. I fail to see your point in hanging your hat on such an arbitrary number.

Wrong again, EVERY school in the BSC averaged over 4k in attendance except Idaho State and Portland State. Every CAA team, and 10 of 11 MVFC teams. In fact, only 33 FCS teams didn’t average 4k+ in attendance.



https://herosports.com/2021-fcs-attenda ... ders-bzbz/

BlackFalkin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:54 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:14 pm

Most schools couldn’t fill a 4000 seat stadium. I fail to see your point in hanging your hat on such an arbitrary number.

Wrong again, EVERY school in the BSC averaged over 4k in attendance except Idaho State and Portland State. Every CAA team, and 10 of 11 MVFC teams. In fact, only 33 FCS teams didn’t average 4k+ in attendance.

phpBB [video]

https://herosports.com/2021-fcs-attenda ... ders-bzbz/

You’ve obviously never been to a UNC game. Or an SUU game. And selling 4,000 tickets <> 4,000 in attendance.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:27 am

BlackFalkin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:54 pm

Wrong again, EVERY school in the BSC averaged over 4k in attendance except Idaho State and Portland State. Every CAA team, and 10 of 11 MVFC teams. In fact, only 33 FCS teams didn’t average 4k+ in attendance.

phpBB [video]

https://herosports.com/2021-fcs-attenda ... ders-bzbz/

You’ve obviously never been to a UNC game. Or an SUU game. And selling 4,000 tickets <> 4,000 in attendance.

I’ve PLAYED against both those schools at their stadiums. Their stadiums are terrible and those universities should be FORCED to make a real decision based on real Division 1 guidelines.

Wrong again AZ, but keep trying, this is fun.

BlackFalkin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:22 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:27 am

You’ve obviously never been to a UNC game. Or an SUU game. And selling 4,000 tickets <> 4,000 in attendance.

I’ve PLAYED against both those schools at their stadiums. Their stadiums are terrible and those universities should be FORCED to make a real decision based on real Division 1 guidelines.

Wrong again AZ, but keep trying, this is fun.

Good for you. That doesn’t make them able to magically draw 4,000 people. They could build a fucking Taj Mahal and it won’t bring in fans that don’t exist.

Hero Sports Top 20 FCS Schools in 2021 Attendance

1. Jackson St. 42,293
2. Montana 24,584
3. James Madison 19,631
4. Montana St. 19,176
5. Southern Univ. 18,698
6. Florida A&M 16,967
7. Jacksonville St. 16,809
8. North Dakota St. 15,101
9. Yale 13,263
10. Delaware 12,844
11. South Dakota St. 12,668
12. N.C. A&T 12,437
13. New Hampshire 11,576
14. Eastern Ky. 11,539
15. Harvard 11,201
16. Alabama St. 10,881
17. Youngstown St. 10,512
18. UC Davis 10,422
19. Alabama A&M 10,241
20. Missouri St. 10,156

Breaking that down we have (numbers are approximate):

• HBCU: 1, 5, 6, 12, 16, 19 (6 of 21 schools or 29% are in the top 20)
• Ivy: 9, 15 (2 of 8 schools or 25% are in the top 20)
• State without an FBS Program: 2, 4, 8, 10, 11, 13 (6 of 12 schools or 50% are in the top 20)
• State with an FBS Program: 3, 7, 14, 17, 18, 20 (6 of 100 schools or 6% are in the top 20)

When it comes to attendance, FCS schools in states without an FBS program are like trust fund kids looking down their noses at the kids who weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:49 am

BlackFalkin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:22 am

I’ve PLAYED against both those schools at their stadiums. Their stadiums are terrible and those universities should be FORCED to make a real decision based on real Division 1 guidelines.

Wrong again AZ, but keep trying, this is fun.

Good for you. That doesn’t make them able to magically draw 4,000 people. They could build a fucking Taj Mahal and it won’t bring in fans that don’t exist.

What’s the difference between SUU and the other FCS team in Utah?

BlackFalkin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:49 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:49 am

Good for you. That doesn’t make them able to magically draw 4,000 people. They could build a fucking Taj Mahal and it won’t bring in fans that don’t exist.

What’s the difference between SUU and the other FCS team in Utah?

They’re poor, white, and the students don’t stay in Cedar City. Only 25,000 in the entire town. No one there has an affiliation with the university or the team, and those that are there couldn’t care less. Much like Greeley.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:26 am Hero Sports Top 20 FCS Schools in 2021 Attendance

1. Jackson St. 42,293
2. Montana 24,584
3. James Madison 19,631
4. Montana St. 19,176
5. Southern Univ. 18,698
6. Florida A&M 16,967
7. Jacksonville St. 16,809
8. North Dakota St. 15,101
9. Yale 13,263
10. Delaware 12,844
11. South Dakota St. 12,668
12. N.C. A&T 12,437
13. New Hampshire 11,576
14. Eastern Ky. 11,539
15. Harvard 11,201
16. Alabama St. 10,881
17. Youngstown St. 10,512
18. UC Davis 10,422
19. Alabama A&M 10,241
20. Missouri St. 10,156

Breaking that down we have (numbers are approximate):

• HBCU: 1, 5, 6, 12, 16, 19 (6 of 21 schools or 29% are in the top 20)
• Ivy: 9, 15 (2 of 8 schools or 25% are in the top 20)
• State without an FBS Program: 2, 4, 8, 10, 11, 13 (6 of 12 schools or 50% are in the top 20)
• State with an FBS Program: 3, 7, 14, 17, 18, 20 (6 of 100 schools or 6% are in the top 20)

When it comes to attendance, FCS schools in states without an FBS program are like trust fund kids looking down their noses at the kids who weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:03 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:26 am Hero Sports Top 20 FCS Schools in 2021 Attendance

1. Jackson St. 42,293
2. Montana 24,584
3. James Madison 19,631
4. Montana St. 19,176
5. Southern Univ. 18,698
6. Florida A&M 16,967
7. Jacksonville St. 16,809
8. North Dakota St. 15,101
9. Yale 13,263
10. Delaware 12,844
11. South Dakota St. 12,668
12. N.C. A&T 12,437
13. New Hampshire 11,576
14. Eastern Ky. 11,539
15. Harvard 11,201
16. Alabama St. 10,881
17. Youngstown St. 10,512
18. UC Davis 10,422
19. Alabama A&M 10,241
20. Missouri St. 10,156

Breaking that down we have (numbers are approximate):

• HBCU: 1, 5, 6, 12, 16, 19 (6 of 21 schools or 29% are in the top 20)
• Ivy: 9, 15 (2 of 8 schools or 25% are in the top 20)
• State without an FBS Program: 2, 4, 8, 10, 11, 13 (6 of 12 schools or 50% are in the top 20)
• State with an FBS Program: 3, 7, 14, 17, 18, 20 (6 of 100 schools or 6% are in the top 20)

When it comes to attendance, FCS schools in states without an FBS program are like trust fund kids looking down their noses at the kids who weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

5 of top 7 have FBS programs in their state. The other two are Montana and Montana State.

Try another argument.

AZVandalBengalWhateverFan wrote:

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:03 pm

5 of top 7 have FBS programs in their state. The other two are Montana and Montana State.

Try another argument.

Did they not teach math at Idaho?

Even if you don't acknowledge that the HBCUs and Ivy's are different and include them, you have 14 out of approx 120 schools. That's less than 12%.

Why are the schools in states without an FBS program disproportionately represented in the top 20 in attendance?

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UNI88 wrote:

AZVandalBengalWhateverFan wrote:
5 of top 7 have FBS programs in their state. The other two are Montana and Montana State.

Try another argument.

Did they not teach math at Idaho?

Even if you don't acknowledge that the HBCUs and Ivy's are different and include them, you have 14 out of approx 120 schools. That's less than 12%.

Why are the schools in states without an FBS program disproportionately represented in the top 20 in attendance?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

He’s got you there AzGrizFan. The problem with your argument is Northern Colorado and Southern Utah did in fact average 4,000+ fans, and if they expanded those obvious Division 2 stadiums, especially if they do it right (on campus, no track, enclosed, with plenty of endzone seating & video boards and great food and atmosphere for the fans) they may be able to draw even more fans. You mentioned Cedar City is full of “poor white fans” but Montana is full of “poor white fans” and they’re still able to draw fans. Fact is, when Montana State expanded their stadium from 12,000 to 17,777, more fans came. When Eastern Washington expanded to 8,600, built a new press box, added endzone seating and Red turf, more fans came. Same goes for UC Davis, Cal Poly, James Madison, Texas State, Prairie View, South Dakota State and others. One can only think about Eastern Washington’s failed Gateway Project, if EWU DID build it, more fans would probably be attracted to games in Cheney. These guys have you pinned down in every direction……

WAIT! I think I know what your issue is here, PARITY. Parity in the Big Sky, and all of FCS, creates less of an advantage for the Montana Grizzlies. Your rival Montana State made it to the National Championship, and it happened shortly after they expanded… and as more FCS teams get their facilities in order, the more likely it is that the Montana Grizzlies fall by the wayside.



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HeavyIsTheCrown wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:49 am

UNI88 wrote:
Did they not teach math at Idaho?

Even if you don't acknowledge that the HBCUs and Ivy's are different and include them, you have 14 out of approx 120 schools. That's less than 12%.

Why are the schools in states without an FBS program disproportionately represented in the top 20 in attendance?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

He’s got you there AzGrizFan. The problem with your argument is Northern Colorado and Southern Utah did in fact average 4,000+ fans, and if they expanded those obvious Division 2 stadiums, especially if they do it right (on campus, no track, enclosed, with plenty of endzone seating & video boards and great food and atmosphere for the fans) they may be able to draw even more fans. You mentioned Cedar City is full of “poor white fans” but Montana is full of “poor white fans” and they’re still able to draw fans. Fact is, when Montana State expanded their stadium from 12,000 to 17,777, more fans came. When Eastern Washington expanded to 8,600, built a new press box, added endzone seating and Red turf, more fans came. Same goes for UC Davis, Cal Poly, James Madison, Texas State, Prairie View, South Dakota State and others. One can only think about Eastern Washington’s failed Gateway Project, if EWU DID build it, more fans would probably be attracted to games in Cheney. These guys have you pinned down in every direction……

WAIT! I think I know what your issue is here, PARITY. Parity in the Big Sky, and all of FCS, creates less of an advantage for the Montana Grizzlies. Your rival Montana State made it to the National Championship, and it happened shortly after they expanded… and as more FCS teams get their facilities in order, the more likely it is that the Montana Grizzlies fall by the wayside.



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You’ve got me. I want everyone else to suck. Dammit…you’re onto me!

Spending tens of millions of dollars to bring in tens of hundreds of new fans is hardly a good business model. I’ve been at Cal Poly. I’ve been at UNC. I’ve been at NAU. I’ve been at the Kibbie Dome. Almost every time, Griz fans outnumbered home team fans. Building them bigger is NOT the answer. THere’s a reason NAU took OUT 6,000 seats when they redid the Walkup dome.

AZGrizFan wrote:

HeavyIsTheCrown wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:49 am

He’s got you there AzGrizFan. The problem with your argument is Northern Colorado and Southern Utah did in fact average 4,000+ fans, and if they expanded those obvious Division 2 stadiums, especially if they do it right (on campus, no track, enclosed, with plenty of endzone seating & video boards and great food and atmosphere for the fans) they may be able to draw even more fans. You mentioned Cedar City is full of “poor white fans” but Montana is full of “poor white fans” and they’re still able to draw fans. Fact is, when Montana State expanded their stadium from 12,000 to 17,777, more fans came. When Eastern Washington expanded to 8,600, built a new press box, added endzone seating and Red turf, more fans came. Same goes for UC Davis, Cal Poly, James Madison, Texas State, Prairie View, South Dakota State and others. One can only think about Eastern Washington’s failed Gateway Project, if EWU DID build it, more fans would probably be attracted to games in Cheney. These guys have you pinned down in every direction……

WAIT! I think I know what your issue is here, PARITY. Parity in the Big Sky, and all of FCS, creates less of an advantage for the Montana Grizzlies. Your rival Montana State made it to the National Championship, and it happened shortly after they expanded… and as more FCS teams get their facilities in order, the more likely it is that the Montana Grizzlies fall by the wayside.



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You’ve got me. I want everyone else to suck. Dammit…you’re onto me!

Spending tens of millions of dollars to bring in tens of hundreds of new fans is hardly a good business model. I’ve been at Cal Poly. I’ve been at UNC. I’ve been at NAU. I’ve been at the Kibbie Dome. Almost every time, Griz fans outnumbered home team fans. Building them bigger is NOT the answer. THere’s a reason NAU took OUT 6,000 seats when they redid the Walkup dome.

You evaded my point about your rival, new facilities & expansion. You also failed to acknowledge UNI88’s point. You’re dodgin’ & weavin’! Two Big Sky teams make national championship appearances after renovations. JMU makes multiple appearances after expansion, South Dakota State makes an appearance after building a new facility. Montana doesn’t expand and they haven’t made a national championship appearance in decades. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.


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