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Be honest guys, SHOULD NDSU GET TF OUTTA FCS?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m proud of you guys and all of your accomplishments. It’s very impressive but seriously.... I think it’s time to go. Maybe the MAC or MWC would be great choices, maybe even the AAC.

You should start this thread over on AGS. More Bye-zun backers over there.

They have something very special and they won't have it if they go to FBS. Pretty much a zero chance they'd ever win another national championship. More likely than not that they would be a mediocre at best FBS program.

JohnStOnge wrote:They have something very special and they won't have it if they go to FBS. Pretty much a zero chance they'd ever win another national championship. More likely than not that they would be a mediocre at best FBS program.

That's correct. They'd probably have some initial success, as Marshall and Boise St did, but then after the realization set in that they're not Alabama or Ohio State they'd lose their current culture and become mediocre, like Marshall and Boise St five to ten years later.

And I think they enjoy beating up on the slop that is current FCS football. Some people are masochists like that.

93henfan wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:They have something very special and they won't have it if they go to FBS. Pretty much a zero chance they'd ever win another national championship. More likely than not that they would be a mediocre at best FBS program.

That's correct. They'd probably have some initial success, as Marshall and Boise St did, but then after the realization set in that they're not Alabama or Ohio State they'd lose their current culture and become mediocre, like Marshall and Boise St five to ten years later.

And I think they enjoy beating up on the slop that is current FCS football. Some people are masochists like that.

I agree regarding championships and not moving up but BSU has only 4 years in the last 20 where they DIDNT have double digit wins. Those 4 were all 8 or 9 win seasons. Twice they’ve finished undefeated. App is similar so far. There’s no regrets moving up but yes, they are the outlier.

kalm wrote:

93henfan wrote:
That's correct. They'd probably have some initial success, as Marshall and Boise St did, but then after the realization set in that they're not Alabama or Ohio State they'd lose their current culture and become mediocre, like Marshall and Boise St five to ten years later.

And I think they enjoy beating up on the slop that is current FCS football. Some people are masochists like that.

I agree regarding championships and not moving up but BSU has only 4 years in the last 20 where they DIDNT have double digit wins. Those 4 were all 8 or 9 win seasons. Twice they’ve finished undefeated. App is similar so far. There’s no regrets moving up but yes, they are the outlier.

Because they don't matter and have no shot at a championship, I really hadn't paid much attention to them lately. Thanks for the update. Do they still have a blue field with a track around it?

1. Don't have a conference invite
2. Don't have a big enough stadium
3. Don't have enough money for the move
4. EWU has been very competitive with NDSU, why don't they move up?

FCS is better than it's ever been. Ursus posted the Massey all-time top 30 on AGS. 9 of the top 14 teams are from 2011 to present, with 2 runner-ups from that era making the list. The runner-ups are rated higher than 3 GSU and 2 App St champions. Only 4 schools on the list moved to FBS.

Ursus Massy List Link

Interesting list from Massey. FCS football is alive and well.

No, I don't want NDSU to move up. Even though I feel they are already one of the top 30 or so programs in all of college football, I like the idea of challenging the best. Reminds me somewhat of UCLA in the Wooden era.

JohnStOnge wrote:They have something very special and they won't have it if they go to FBS. Pretty much a zero chance they'd ever win another national championship. More likely than not that they would be a mediocre at best FBS program.

Define mediocre. Is Boise mediocre? I'm guessing they've been ranked more seasons than not. Top 30-40 every year is not "mediocre" IMO when there are 120 teams.

vutomcat wrote:Interesting list from Massey.

Nothing from Massey is interesting.

Gil Dobie wrote:FCS is better than it's ever been.

Wait a minute, Gil, so you think App State's mid-to-late '00s teams, GSU's late 90s/early 00s teams, and Marshall's 1990s teams would lose more games today than they would in the subdivision they played in as NDSU has won 30+ straight? You've got to be a real NDSU homer to say that, I have to say.

Just for perspective, Marshall had one undefeated IAA team (a juggernaut with an all-time NFL receiver and an NFL QB), GSU had 1 with a legendary coach. App beat Michigan and had a three-peat and still never had an undefeated season. NDSU has now had undefeated teams in 3 consecutive coaching staffs and two in a row. Chris Klieman and Matt Entz both have higher winning percentages at NDSU than Nick Saban does at Alabama even if you throw out his first season.

If anyone is going to try and say that's because the Bison work real real real real real hard you're just throwing things at the wall to see what will stick.

Boom.

No and Gill explained it very well in his post.

Now if the FBS shake up between the P5 and the rest happened, I would be open to re-visiting that but until then we stay put.

89Hen wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:They have something very special and they won't have it if they go to FBS. Pretty much a zero chance they'd ever win another national championship. More likely than not that they would be a mediocre at best FBS program.

Define mediocre. Is Boise mediocre? I'm guessing they've been ranked more seasons than not. Top 30-40 every year is not "mediocre" IMO when there are 120 teams.

I enjoy being in the top 5. Anything less is a travesty.

And we certainty don't have the money to be in the top 5 of FBS.

93henfan wrote:Boom.

+1

Pwns wrote:Wait a minute, Gil, so you think App State's mid-to-late '00s teams, GSU's late 90s/early 00s teams, and Marshall's 1990s teams would lose more games today than they would in the subdivision they played in as NDSU has won 30+ straight? You've got to be a real NDSU homer to say that, I have to say.

Just for perspective, Marshall had one undefeated IAA team (a juggernaut with an all-time NFL receiver and an NFL QB), GSU had 1 with a legendary coach. App beat Michigan and had a three-peat and still never had an undefeated season. NDSU has now had undefeated teams in 3 consecutive coaching staffs and two in a row. Chris Klieman and Matt Entz both have higher winning percentages at NDSU than Nick Saban does at Alabama even if you throw out his first season.

If anyone is going to try and say that's because the Bison work real real real real real hard you're just throwing things at the wall to see what will stick.

Not saying any of that, just saying FCS has been better in recent years. App St beat #5 Michigan and lost 2 games and still won the title. NDSU beat #11 Iowa, lost 2 games and JMU won the title. Marshall has a team in the top 5, GSU and App St have teams on the list too. The Southern Conference is not as good as before since losing 3 key teams, but the MVFC, Big Sky and Southland, along with some CAA teams like JMU are all prospering. MVFC 3 different teams have played in Frisco.

Gil Dobie wrote:Not saying any of that, just saying FCS has been better in recent years.

Gil Dobie wrote:FCS is better than it's ever been.

89Hen wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:Not saying any of that, just saying FCS has been better in recent years.

Gil Dobie wrote:FCS is better than it's ever been.

That's not what I understood pwns as saying. FCS is better than it's ever been.

Gil Dobie wrote:

89Hen wrote:

That's not what I understood pwns as saying. FCS is better than it's ever been.

pwns correctly points out that FCS is NOT better today.

89Hen wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
That's not what I understood pwns as saying. FCS is better than it's ever been.

pwns correctly points out that FCS is NOT better today.

You really need to change your avatar Hen ...

89Hen wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
That's not what I understood pwns as saying. FCS is better than it's ever been.

pwns correctly points out that FCS is NOT better today.

He pointed out some of the past highlights. We know Marshall was good, GSU was good and App St was good. They are on the list too. They don't rate as high as the recent teams. Even a couple recent runner-ups are on this list.

UNI88 wrote:

89Hen wrote: pwns correctly points out that FCS is NOT better today.

You really need to change your avatar Hen ...

For being truthful?? Me being a Hens fan has ZERO to do with the state of I-AA football today. If anything, I should be making the case that the reason the Hens are so down right now is BECAUSE the division is just so darn strong right now. Truth is, the Hens stink in a division that is down.

Gil Dobie wrote:They don't rate as high as the recent teams.

In what, Massey?

Gil Dobie wrote: FCS is better than it's ever been.

Clearly. AGS is 90% Bison fans and 90% Bison discussion, with a remaining 5% being the Bison sycophants from SDSU and the like who have beaten down enough to succumb to Stockholm syndrome. Playoff attendance is through the toilet since you're watching someone you hope can be a runner-up. Unless you're one of 4-5 programs who built something, you're probably headed back to mediocrity as soon as your seniors leave or your coach gets poached. Seems like those are all pretty good indicators of health and interest...


...and to answer BF, yeah, they probably should if at all possible. You think'd their admin would be working overtime to make it happen instead of coming up with excuses as to why it's impossible. There are no worlds left to conquer here, just a sad division with 100 programs that barely try that they don't belong in.

And tell me there is no urgency if JMU jumps, or SDSU starts implying they want to jump, or programs start cutting the sport? FCS is getting worse before it gets better imo.