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Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:15 am
by 93henfan
Delaware is #8 in the AGS poll and #11 in Stats FCS Poll. Sounds like a good team, but if you've watched it, it's not. IMHO, it's a pretty bad team in relation to what my eyes have seen in 30+ years of watching I-AA/FCS.

This Delaware team would be beaten by 20+ by the 2010 or 2007 Delaware teams and by 30+ by the 2003 Delaware squad.

So it begs the question: Is Delaware just wildly overrated or is FCS football, other than NDSU, just this bad?

I seem to think it's the latter.

I've watched most of Delaware's games, as well as many CAA, BSC, and MVFC games on satellte TV. I am completely underwhelmed by every team in FCS right now, in comparison to pre-2010 FCS teams.

The only exception is NDSU, who is just a completely different caliber of team from the entire rest of the subdivision.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:32 am
by Gil Dobie
From what I've seen this season, Delaware is not as good as the 2003-2010 teams. I would put them in the category with UNI, WIU and Illinois St. Possibility of an all-MVFC championship game, NDSU/SDSU, if JMU doesn't shape up. There's always a chance for an upset in the playoffs, but if NDSU wins out, there is a very good chance they will make it to Frisco.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:33 am
by kalm
93henfan wrote:Delaware is #8 in the AGS poll and #11 in Stats FCS Poll. Sounds like a good team, but if you've watched it, it's not. IMHO, it's a pretty bad team in relation to what my eyes have seen in 30+ years of watching I-AA/FCS.

This Delaware team would be beaten by 20+ by the 2010 or 2007 Delaware teams and by 30+ by the 2003 Delaware squad.

So it begs the question: Is Delaware just wildly overrated or is FCS football, other than NDSU, just this bad?

I seem to think it's the latter.

I've watched most of Delaware's games, as well as many CAA, BSC, and MVFC games on satellte TV. I am completely underwhelmed by every team in FCS right now, in comparison to pre-2010 FCS teams.

The only exception is NDSU, who is just a completely different caliber of team from the entire rest of the subdivision.
I actually think it's better. This year's EWU defense is statistically better than the 2010 defense and the offense is WAY better against similar competition. There's more athleticism and speed as well.

You're seeing bad FCS teams like Idaho State last year beat FBS Nevada and decent FCS teams like ISUr and NAU this year dominate FBS Colorado State and UTEP.

The SoCon and OVC are down this season, but the lower and middle of the pack SLC teams are playing better.

To me, if anything, the gap has narrowed between at least the elite conferences in FCS and FBS when it comes to the talent.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:42 am
by 93henfan
There is no way the top ten in FCS right now, other than NDSU, could hope to compete in a conference like the CAA in the 2003-2010 timeframe. They'd be lucky to finish 5th.

You can play all sorts of games with "stats". The eyes don't lie. FCS is pretty putrid right now. Or Delaware is vastly overrated.

Re: RE: Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:36 am
by clenz
I'd agree.
93henfan wrote:There is no way the top ten in FCS right now, other than NDSU, could hope to compete in a conference like the CAA in the 2003-2010 timeframe. They'd be lucky to finish 5th.

You can play all sorts of games with "stats". The eyes don't lie. FCS is pretty putrid right now. Or Delaware is vastly overrated.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:46 am
by kalm
93henfan wrote:There is no way the top ten in FCS right now, other than NDSU, could hope to compete in a conference like the CAA in the 2003-2010 timeframe. They'd be lucky to finish 5th.

You can play all sorts of games with "stats". The eyes don't lie. FCS is pretty putrid right now. Or Delaware is vastly overrated.
Perhaps you should have titled the thread, the CAA doesn’t look as good as it used to?

Part of it might be the move across all divisions away from mire pro style offenses or air raid to the ground heavy RPO style that’s been so effective for the likes of NDSU and Alabama. Limit possessions and throw it just enough to keep D’s Honest.

Or are you seeing it on the defensive side as well?

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:48 am
by 93henfan
kalm wrote: Perhaps you should have titled the thread, the CAA doesn’t look as good as it used to?
No. Everyone looks worse, except NDSU.

I watched EWU vs Idaho a couple of weeks ago.

No offense, but you guys suck. Almost as much as Delaware. And that was in a dominating game. I didn't see any of the strength, speed, power, or intensity that NDSU displayed while it was two-holing the Hens.

In fact EWU at #5 in Stats' poll is even more an indictment of FCS than Delaware at #11.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:04 am
by clenz
I'm watching the MVFC and looking back to SIU WKU and UNI of the same timeframe of the Gateway and it's crazy

UNI the last few years has somehow maintained top 25 status and finished second in the MVFC. They are UNI teams that would get curbed by UNI SIU WKU etc in conference play in the Gateway

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:07 am
by dbackjon
Talent is a little down, and more spread out.

All the teams going to FBS (App, Ga South, Liberty etc) are still taking some players that normally would have played in FCS, and taking others from MAC, C-USA teams that are now recruiting players that would be FCS 10 years ago.

There are a lot of bad FBS teams as well.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:08 am
by 93henfan
clenz wrote:I'm watching the MVFC and looking back to SIU WKU and UNI of the same timeframe of the Gateway and it's crazy

UNI the last few years has somehow maintained top 25 status and finished second in the MVFC. They are UNI teams that would get curbed by UNI SIU WKU etc in conference play in the Gateway

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That UNI team that Flacco beat in 2007 was damn good. That was one of the highest highs ever for a Delaware team, because we knew we had to play perfect to win, and Flacco was just lights out that day.

The Gateway teams in 2003 we beat (UNI and SIU) came into a buzzsaw of a venue in Newark, in completely shitty weather, and our defense was ridiculous that year. That was back when Delaware still had fans coming to games and it was a very tough place to play.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:17 am
by SunCoastBlueHen
I think the pool of talent to pull from is simply getting smaller as fewer and fewer kids are playing HS football.

The power five, big money programs pick from the pool, then the group of six other lower tier FBS programs (which are increasing in number) and then what's left for FCS ain't what it used to be.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:34 am
by 89Hen
dbackjon wrote:Talent is a little down, and more spread out.

All the teams going to FBS (App, Ga South, Liberty etc) are still taking some players that normally would have played in FBS, and taking others from MAC, C-USA teams that are now recruiting players that would be FCS 10 years ago.

There are a lot of bad FBS teams as well.
:nod:

You can't take away UMass, WKU, AppSt, GaSo, ODU... and NOT have a decline in the division. The division is a LOT worse today than 10 years ago. Anyone saying anything different is just plain old stoopid.

Re: RE: Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:50 am
by clenz
93henfan wrote:
clenz wrote:I'm watching the MVFC and looking back to SIU WKU and UNI of the same timeframe of the Gateway and it's crazy

UNI the last few years has somehow maintained top 25 status and finished second in the MVFC. They are UNI teams that would get curbed by UNI SIU WKU etc in conference play in the Gateway

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That UNI team that Flacco beat in 2007 was damn good. That was one of the highest highs ever for a Delaware team, because we knew we had to play perfect to win, and Flacco was just lights out that day.

The Gateway teams in 2003 we beat (UNI and SIU) came into a buzzsaw of a venue in Newark, in completely shitty weather, and our defense was ridiculous that year. That was back when Delaware still had fans coming to games and it was a very tough place to play.
He was a fucking weeble wobble. We had 4 DL and LBs that were in the NFL from that team. Our 6'8 320 DT would blind side him and he'd just bounce off like nothing. Fucking stupid.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:33 am
by Gil Dobie
89Hen wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Talent is a little down, and more spread out.

All the teams going to FBS (App, Ga South, Liberty etc) are still taking some players that normally would have played in FBS, and taking others from MAC, C-USA teams that are now recruiting players that would be FCS 10 years ago.

There are a lot of bad FBS teams as well.
:nod:

You can't take away UMass, WKU, AppSt, GaSo, ODU... and NOT have a decline in the division. The division is a LOT worse today than 10 years ago. Anyone saying anything different is just plain old stoopid.
And adding NDSU, UCD, SDSU, USD, UND, Cal Poly, Kennesaw St, North Alabama, Incarnate Word, Central Arkansas, etc, hasn't improved FCS.

ODU was just a pass-thru team, never meant to be FCS, UMass probably could not compete in FCS at this point. Idaho has returned to FCS. GSU and App St have been up and down in FBS, and not even sure the Slumbelt is as good as the top FCS conferences.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:22 am
by 89Hen
Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote: :nod:

You can't take away UMass, WKU, AppSt, GaSo, ODU... and NOT have a decline in the division. The division is a LOT worse today than 10 years ago. Anyone saying anything different is just plain old stoopid.
And adding NDSU, UCD, SDSU, USD, UND, Cal Poly, Kennesaw St, North Alabama, Incarnate Word, Central Arkansas, etc, hasn't improved FCS.

ODU was just a pass-thru team, never meant to be FCS, UMass probably could not compete in FCS at this point. Idaho has returned to FCS. GSU and App St have been up and down in FBS, and not even sure the Slumbelt is as good as the top FCS conferences.

Image
I believe NDSU, SDSU, UCD, CP... all moved up 14 years ago, so yeah. the division is a LOT worse today than 10 years ago. Replacing AppSt and GSU with Kennesaw and North Alabama... :lol:

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:32 am
by 89Hen
Gil Dobie wrote:not even sure the Slumbelt is as good as the top FCS conferences.
I'm no SB apologist by any means (I've been pretty derogatory in fact) but by my count the SB is 8-0 vs I-AA this year. To be fair, they've played some pretty weak teams but even lowly 2-7 Georgia State beat your poster child Kennesaw State. 8-)

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:52 am
by Wildcat Ryan
Weber's football program is the best it has ever been. I wont complain too much.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:54 am
by Gil Dobie
89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
And adding NDSU, UCD, SDSU, USD, UND, Cal Poly, Kennesaw St, North Alabama, Incarnate Word, Central Arkansas, etc, hasn't improved FCS.

ODU was just a pass-thru team, never meant to be FCS, UMass probably could not compete in FCS at this point. Idaho has returned to FCS. GSU and App St have been up and down in FBS, and not even sure the Slumbelt is as good as the top FCS conferences.

Image
I believe NDSU, SDSU, UCD, CP... all moved up 14 years ago, so yeah. the division is a LOT worse today than 10 years ago. Replacing AppSt and GSU with Kennesaw and North Alabama... :lol:
Those teams didn't become playoff eligible until 10 years ago. Kennesaw isn't a top 5 team and neither is Delaware. This years UNI team is comparable to 2003 or 2005, but 2007 was better, more like SDSU or a 2010 Delaware. 2003 was the best Delaware team, almost as good as this years NDSU team. Just because the old guard is gone or fielding bad teams, doesn't make FCS worse. This years Delaware is getting rated because of their record, not because of how good they are. I've seen them in person, they are an Illinois St or WIU, which is good, but not great. UNI and SDSU are the best teams NDSU has played.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:56 am
by Gil Dobie
Wildcat Ryan wrote:Weber's football program is the best it has ever been. I wont complain too much.
...and UC Davis is playing great, but not under eyes of the ECB.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:59 am
by 93henfan
Gil Dobie wrote:2003 was the best Delaware team, almost as good as this years NDSU team.
Delaware's best teams were its D2 teams (the I-AA of that era) of the 70s. Delaware won three of its six national titles in the 70s.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:02 pm
by 89Hen
Gil Dobie wrote:Just because the old guard is gone or fielding bad teams, doesn't make FCS worse.
That's a two parter. The first part about "gone"... is not even questionable. Is the MVFC stronger with or without NDSU?

The second part... sure things change. I certainly remember when Youngstown was THE program in I-AA. Them not being close to their former self doesn't really mean that I-AA as a whole is weaker. But I do think the void left by them has opened the door for more teams in their shadow to come forward. I agree with 93 that UD ranked this high is a crock... but I really don't see any teams I'd put ahead of them. Shit, there are some teams in front of them that I think are hollow as hell.

Re: RE: Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:03 pm
by Rob Iola
clenz wrote:
93henfan wrote:
That UNI team that Flacco beat in 2007 was damn good. That was one of the highest highs ever for a Delaware team, because we knew we had to play perfect to win, and Flacco was just lights out that day.

The Gateway teams in 2003 we beat (UNI and SIU) came into a buzzsaw of a venue in Newark, in completely shitty weather, and our defense was ridiculous that year. That was back when Delaware still had fans coming to games and it was a very tough place to play.
He was a fucking weeble wobble. We had 4 DL and LBs that were in the NFL from that team. Our 6'8 320 DT would blind side him and he'd just bounce off like nothing. Fucking stupid.

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Our 2003 D would've beat up on 2007 Flacco - hell just 2 weeks ago Flacco got picked off by Pops Adams...

Re: RE: Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:06 pm
by 93henfan
Rob Iola wrote:Pops Adams...
That fucker won't die.

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:02 pm
by Silenoz
Yes, FCS sucks

Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:36 pm
by CAA Flagship
I blame Montana