Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by AZGrizFan »

89Hen wrote:
dbackjon wrote:Talent is a little down, and more spread out.

All the teams going to FBS (App, Ga South, Liberty etc) are still taking some players that normally would have played in FBS, and taking others from MAC, C-USA teams that are now recruiting players that would be FCS 10 years ago.

There are a lot of bad FBS teams as well.
:nod:

You can't take away UMass, WKU, AppSt, GaSo, ODU... and NOT have a decline in the division. The division is a LOT worse today than 10 years ago. Anyone saying anything different is just plain old stoopid.
But Idaho is back! :lol:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Grizalltheway »

AZGrizFan wrote:
89Hen wrote: :nod:

You can't take away UMass, WKU, AppSt, GaSo, ODU... and NOT have a decline in the division. The division is a LOT worse today than 10 years ago. Anyone saying anything different is just plain old stoopid.
But Idaho is back! :lol:
Careful. We might just lose to them. :x
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by kalm »

93henfan wrote:
kalm wrote: Perhaps you should have titled the thread, the CAA doesn’t look as good as it used to?
No. Everyone looks worse, except NDSU.

I watched EWU vs Idaho a couple of weeks ago.

No offense, but you guys suck. Almost as much as Delaware. And that was in a dominating game. I didn't see any of the strength, speed, power, or intensity that NDSU displayed while it was two-holing the Hens.

In fact EWU at #5 in Stats' poll is even more an indictment of FCS than Delaware at #11.
No offense taken. We've been reduced to a team that is run heavy and holds opponents to 15 ppg. BORING!

We sucked in 2010 too. Couldn't play defense, Big Fluffy schedule, etc. :lol:

With NDSU as your metric, the answer is closer to yes. But how good NDSU is vs. does the FCS suck compared to the glory days of the CAA are too different questions. The Bizon two-holed us last year as well. The year before, we really should have beat them in Fargo and that was one of the worst defenses we've ever had. If NDSU is really that good, than surely JMU and SDSU are terrific as well.

It's all about perspective. I see middle to bottom of the pack Big Sky teams picking off MWC and Pac 12's. I see a fricking OVC team going toe to toe with the SEC. I see athletes across the board that are significantly bigger, faster, and more talented than 15 years ago. Start up schools like Chuck South and Kennesaw quickly becoming competitive.

Some of that is recruiting which has been made easier with technology and also helped by the ability of schools to market and broadcast FCS which helps with branding. A kid from California 1500 miles away, more than likely never watched a Montana State or Eastern Washington game 15 years ago. Had no clue how beautifully the Gallatin range backdropped Bobcat Stadium or how gorgeous red turf was. Some of it is improved athletic training, facilities, film study, and nutrition.

Your eyeballs tell you one thing and mine tell me another. I see more NFL talent than ever come to Cheney, both Eastern players and opposing teams. I see us regularly competing with Pac-12 schools which has never happened before. Big Sky teams are winning recruiting battles against the FCS. I see more than one CAA actually displaying a modern passing game at times with more than one QB who can throw it 30 yards in the air.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote:
89Hen wrote: :nod:

You can't take away UMass, WKU, AppSt, GaSo, ODU... and NOT have a decline in the division. The division is a LOT worse today than 10 years ago. Anyone saying anything different is just plain old stoopid.
But Idaho is back! :lol:
Actually another solid indicator. Check with Idaho fans before the season and now, if the FCS is worse.

8-)
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by 93henfan »

kalm wrote:
93henfan wrote:
No. Everyone looks worse, except NDSU.

I watched EWU vs Idaho a couple of weeks ago.

No offense, but you guys suck. Almost as much as Delaware. And that was in a dominating game. I didn't see any of the strength, speed, power, or intensity that NDSU displayed while it was two-holing the Hens.

In fact EWU at #5 in Stats' poll is even more an indictment of FCS than Delaware at #11.
No offense taken. We've been reduced to a team that is run heavy and holds opponents to 15 ppg. BORING!

We sucked in 2010 too. Couldn't play defense, Big Fluffy schedule, etc. :lol:

With NDSU as your metric, the answer is closer to yes. But how good NDSU is vs. does the FCS suck compared to the glory days of the CAA are too different questions. The Bizon two-holed us last year as well. The year before, we really should have beat them in Fargo and that was one of the worst defenses we've ever had. If NDSU is really that good, than surely JMU and SDSU are terrific as well.

It's all about perspective. I see middle to bottom of the pack Big Sky teams picking off MWC and Pac 12's. I see a fricking OVC team going toe to toe with the SEC. I see athletes across the board that are significantly bigger, faster, and more talented than 15 years ago. Start up schools like Chuck South and Kennesaw quickly becoming competitive.

Some of that is recruiting which has been made easier with technology and also helped by the ability of schools to market and broadcast FCS which helps with branding. A kid from California 1500 miles away, more than likely never watched a Montana State or Eastern Washington game 15 years ago. Had no clue how beautifully the Gallatin range backdropped Bobcat Stadium or how gorgeous red turf was. Some of it is improved athletic training, facilities, film study, and nutrition.

Your eyeballs tell you one thing and mine tell me another. I see more NFL talent than ever come to Cheney, both Eastern players and opposing teams. I see us regularly competing with Pac-12 schools which has never happened before. Big Sky teams are winning recruiting battles against the FCS. I see more than one CAA actually displaying a modern passing game at times with more than one QB who can throw it 30 yards in the air.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by kalm »

93henfan wrote:
kalm wrote:
No offense taken. We've been reduced to a team that is run heavy and holds opponents to 15 ppg. BORING!

We sucked in 2010 too. Couldn't play defense, Big Fluffy schedule, etc. :lol:

With NDSU as your metric, the answer is closer to yes. But how good NDSU is vs. does the FCS suck compared to the glory days of the CAA are too different questions. The Bizon two-holed us last year as well. The year before, we really should have beat them in Fargo and that was one of the worst defenses we've ever had. If NDSU is really that good, than surely JMU and SDSU are terrific as well.

It's all about perspective. I see middle to bottom of the pack Big Sky teams picking off MWC and Pac 12's. I see a fricking OVC team going toe to toe with the SEC. I see athletes across the board that are significantly bigger, faster, and more talented than 15 years ago. Start up schools like Chuck South and Kennesaw quickly becoming competitive.

Some of that is recruiting which has been made easier with technology and also helped by the ability of schools to market and broadcast FCS which helps with branding. A kid from California 1500 miles away, more than likely never watched a Montana State or Eastern Washington game 15 years ago. Had no clue how beautifully the Gallatin range backdropped Bobcat Stadium or how gorgeous red turf was. Some of it is improved athletic training, facilities, film study, and nutrition.

Your eyeballs tell you one thing and mine tell me another. I see more NFL talent than ever come to Cheney, both Eastern players and opposing teams. I see us regularly competing with Pac-12 schools which has never happened before. Big Sky teams are winning recruiting battles against the FCS. I see more than one CAA actually displaying a modern passing game at times with more than one QB who can throw it 30 yards in the air.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
But Idaho is back! :lol:
Actually another solid indicator. Check with Idaho fans before the season and now, if the FCS is worse.

8-)
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
Actually another solid indicator. Check with Idaho fans before the season and now, if the FCS is worse.

8-)
:tothehand: :dunce:
What?
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by CAA Flagship »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: :tothehand: :dunce:
What?
He said :tothehand: :dunce:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by kalm »

CAA Flagship wrote:
kalm wrote:
What?
He said :tothehand: :dunce:
Huh?
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: :tothehand: :dunce:
What?
One team's experience in I-AA separated by some 25 years (or whatever it was) of their program going up and then down is not an indicator of anything.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
What?
One team's experience in I-AA separated by some 25 years (or whatever it was) of their program going up and then down is not an indicator of anything.
Of course it is. They are two years removed from a 9-4 season and bowl win. They have one class under their belt as FCS with all of the Juniors and Seniors recruited to an FBS program. Their fans and many FCS pundits and fans expected them to be a playoff team this year and contend for a conference title.

And yet they're going to probably finish in 8th place in the Big Sky at 4-6 this year. They were an 1AA power when they left, improved their budget, their facilities, and theoretically their level of athlete. Petrino is one of the highest paid coaches in FCS. They will be making FBS level payouts through something like 2021.

They should have walked right back in and been a player.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:Of course it is. They are two years removed from a 9-4 season and bowl win....
Nebraska (2-7) is two years removed from a 9-4 season.
Louisville (2-7) is two years removed from a 9-4 season.
Kansas State (3-6) is two years removed from a 9-4 season.
New Mexico (3-6) is two years removed from a 9-4 season.
Air Force (3-6) is two years removed from a 10-3 season.
WKU (1-8) is two years removed from an 11-3 season.
Florida State is two years removed from a 10-3 season.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Gil Dobie »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:Of course it is. They are two years removed from a 9-4 season and bowl win....
Nebraska (2-7) is two years removed from a 9-4 season.
Louisville (2-7) is two years removed from a 9-4 season.
Kansas State (3-6) is two years removed from a 9-4 season.
New Mexico (3-6) is two years removed from a 9-4 season.
Air Force (3-6) is two years removed from a 10-3 season.
WKU (1-8) is two years removed from an 11-3 season.
Florida State is two years removed from a 10-3 season.

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So FCS is worse because they lost 1-8 WKU :roll:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by 89Hen »

Gil Dobie wrote:So FCS is worse because they lost 1-8 WKU :roll:
They lost the 11-3 version... or the 12-2 version from the year before that. You and kalm trying to use outliers to combat the notion that if you take the top teams out of a division, the division becomes weaker. I honestly can't believe you're trying to refute that. :|
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Gil Dobie »

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:So FCS is worse because they lost 1-8 WKU :roll:
They lost the 11-3 version... or the 12-2 version from the year before that. You and kalm trying to use outliers to combat the notion that if you take the top teams out of a division, the division becomes weaker. I honestly can't believe you're trying to refute that. :|
Not really, 20 schools have moved up from FCS to FBS. Only 3 of them had double digit playoff appearances, GSU and App St. recently and Idaho moved back to FCS. Sure GSU and App St were good, but it's next man up in FCS, their shoes have been filled.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Pwns »

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
But Idaho is back! :lol:
Actually another solid indicator. Check with Idaho fans before the season and now, if the FCS is worse.

8-)
Idaho was 4-8 last year, two years removed from their only good season in the Sun Belt, and lost their four-year starter at QB Matt Linehan.

What's really more telling is a top-5 FCS team (#2 in the Coach's poll) lost to the worst team in the Sun Belt (ouch). The subdivision looks to me to be in bad shape, but I don't think the problem is incurable. If you could just get the Griz and the CAA going things would get interesting again.

I don't know WTF happened to the CAA, it's honestly completely befuddling to me, but if it was good before why can't they be good again?

Montana had the NCAA sanctions and then after Pflugrad's successor decided he didn't want to deal with it and retired they hired a guy that was a good innovator but couldn't run a program or develop players. I think they'll be back in a few years, but their slump definitely hurts the subdivision.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Gil Dobie »

Pwns wrote:
kalm wrote:
Actually another solid indicator. Check with Idaho fans before the season and now, if the FCS is worse.

8-)
Idaho was 4-8 last year, two years removed from their only good season in the Sun Belt, and lost their four-year starter at QB Matt Linehan.

What's really more telling is a top-5 FCS team (#2 in the Coach's poll) lost to the worst team in the Sun Belt (ouch). The subdivision looks to me to be in bad shape, but I don't think the problem is incurable. If you could just get the Griz and the CAA going things would get interesting again.

I don't know WTF happened to the CAA, it's honestly completely befuddling to me, but if it was good before why can't they be good again?

Montana had the NCAA sanctions and then after Pflugrad's successor decided he didn't want to deal with it and retired they hired a guy that was a good innovator but couldn't run a program or develop players. I think they'll be back in a few years, but their slump definitely hurts the subdivision.
You lost me at Coach's Poll :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by 89Hen »

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote: They lost the 11-3 version... or the 12-2 version from the year before that. You and kalm trying to use outliers to combat the notion that if you take the top teams out of a division, the division becomes weaker. I honestly can't believe you're trying to refute that. :|
Not really, 20 schools have moved up from FCS to FBS. Only 3 of them had double digit playoff appearances, GSU and App St. recently and Idaho moved back to FCS. Sure GSU and App St were good, but it's next man up in FCS, their shoes have been filled.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by CAA Flagship »

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote: They lost the 11-3 version... or the 12-2 version from the year before that. You and kalm trying to use outliers to combat the notion that if you take the top teams out of a division, the division becomes weaker. I honestly can't believe you're trying to refute that. :|
Not really, 20 schools have moved up from FCS to FBS. Only 3 of them had double digit playoff appearances, GSU and App St. recently and Idaho moved back to FCS. Sure GSU and App St were good, but it's next man up in FCS, their shoes have been filled.
But that (20 - 1) equates to 1637 scholarship players in FBS instead of FCS.

(20 x 85) - 63 = 1637
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Gil Dobie »

CAA Flagship wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Not really, 20 schools have moved up from FCS to FBS. Only 3 of them had double digit playoff appearances, GSU and App St. recently and Idaho moved back to FCS. Sure GSU and App St were good, but it's next man up in FCS, their shoes have been filled.
But that (20 - 1) equates to 1637 scholarship players in FBS instead of FCS.

(20 x 85) - 63 = 1637
It isn't a 1 for 1 replacement of FCS scholarship players. I would assume being in FBS, means recruiting better players than you were at the FCS level. NDSU recruits better players, 1-63, than they did at the Division II level. Even getting better players, or maybe developing players better than the next door Minnesota Gophers. Grabbing players from under their shadow.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Silenoz »

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote: They lost the 11-3 version... or the 12-2 version from the year before that. You and kalm trying to use outliers to combat the notion that if you take the top teams out of a division, the division becomes weaker. I honestly can't believe you're trying to refute that. :|
Not really, 20 schools have moved up from FCS to FBS. Only 3 of them had double digit playoff appearances, GSU and App St. recently and Idaho moved back to FCS. Sure GSU and App St were good, but it's next man up in FCS, their shoes have been filled.
Not really
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Grizalltheway »

Silenoz wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Not really, 20 schools have moved up from FCS to FBS. Only 3 of them had double digit playoff appearances, GSU and App St. recently and Idaho moved back to FCS. Sure GSU and App St were good, but it's next man up in FCS, their shoes have been filled.
Not really
I think they have been to some extent, it's just that the gap between NDSU and everybody else is bigger than it ever was with GSU/App etc.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by SuperHornet »

Grizalltheway wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
But Idaho is back! :lol:
Careful. We might just lose to them. :x
To D-II.

Where they belong, along with UNC and SUU....
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Post by Grizalltheway »

SuperHornet wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote: Careful. We might just lose to them. :x
To D-II.

Where they belong, along with UNC and SUU....
And Suc State. :coffee:
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