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I think what Kade Harrington did is way more impressive. He finished with almost 1000 more all purpose yards than Kupp did. But it is what it is.

JohnStOnge wrote:I think what Kade Harrington did is way more impressive. He finished with almost 1000 more all purpose yards than Kupp did. But it is what it is.

This post brought to you by someone who's never seen Kupp play.

Grizalltheway wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:I think what Kade Harrington did is way more impressive. He finished with almost 1000 more all purpose yards than Kupp did. But it is what it is.

This post brought to you by someone who's never seen Kupp play.

Or had to play against him.

All I can say is we've had some tremendous athletes here including a pair of Payton and Buchanon award winners and Kupp is the most complete player and dominant at his position that I've seen.

Who?

Grizalltheway wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:I think what Kade Harrington did is way more impressive. He finished with almost 1000 more all purpose yards than Kupp did. But it is what it is.

This post brought to you by someone who's never seen Kupp play.

I have seen him play on TV. Actually same thing with Harrington. Haven't seen either live but both on TV. What Harrington did is just more impressive. He reached 2000 yards rushing in 10 games. That doesn't happen a lot. He led the nation in scoring. He led the nation in all purpose yards. He was explosive in his realm of running the football in that he's currently 2nd in yards per carry with Jacksonville State's guy having a game to go. Kupp was 87th in yards per catch.

Harrington was a threat to score either running the football or receiving it out of the backfield from anywhere on the field. He accounted for more yards, scored more points, and was more of a "home run" threat than Kupp was. Not that Kupp wasn't a "home run" threat. But not as much as Harrington was.

To me this is one of those things where a player got the benefit of being known before the season started. If you just lay out what each did without that type of pre-established bias Harrington clearly had the more impressive season performance.

Which do you guys think is more uncommon:

Someone finishing with 1642 receiving yards?

Someone rushing for over 2000 yards in 10 games?

I haven't looked it up yet but I know how I'd bet.

Edit: I couldn't resist and looked a little bit and it's not close. 1642 or more yards receiving in a season is not unusual at all. 2000 rushing in 10 games is.

Here's a good one:

Harrington averaged more yards PER RECEPTION (15.21) than Kupp did (14.40).

So he led FCS in scoring, rushing yards, and all purpose yards and even, as a running back, averaged more yards per reception than the wide receiver Kupp did but you guys are going to argue that his performance wasn't more impressive? Right.

JohnStOnge wrote:Here's a good one:

Harrington averaged more yards PER RECEPTION (15.21) than Kupp did (14.40).

So he led FCS in scoring, rushing yards, and all purpose yards and even, as a running back, averaged more yards per reception than the wide receiver Kupp did but you guys are going to argue that his performance wasn't more impressive? Right.

What a retarded argument.

JohnStOnge wrote:Here's a good one:

Harrington averaged more yards PER RECEPTION (15.21) than Kupp did (14.40).

So he led FCS in scoring, rushing yards, and all purpose yards and even, as a running back, averaged more yards per reception than the wide receiver Kupp did but you guys are going to argue that his performance wasn't more impressive? Right.

Harrington had 14.4 ypc, not 15.2, and the fact he only had 15 catches on the year would make that argument worthless anyway.

http://southland.org/custompages/stats/ ... 015/lu.htm


Harrington also did very little against the top-2 defenses he played against (McNeese & Baylor).

Kupp averaged 170 ypg against the top-4 defenses he faced (Oregon, UNI, Montana, Portland State).

Mvemjsunpx wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:Here's a good one:

Harrington averaged more yards PER RECEPTION (15.21) than Kupp did (14.40).

So he led FCS in scoring, rushing yards, and all purpose yards and even, as a running back, averaged more yards per reception than the wide receiver Kupp did but you guys are going to argue that his performance wasn't more impressive? Right.

Harrington had 14.4 ypc, not 15.2, and the fact he only had 15 catches on the year would make that argument worthless anyway.

http://southland.org/custompages/stats/ ... 015/lu.htm


Harrington also did very little against the top-2 defenses he played against (McNeese & Baylor).

Kupp averaged 170 ypg against the top-4 defenses he faced (Oregon, UNI, Montana, Portland State).

Without looking it up, I'd bet that Kupp's QBR is better than Harrington.

Ok, I couldn't resist. He was 2-2 for 45 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 22.5 yards per comp. So Harrington had the same # of receiving touchdowns that Kupp did passing with WAY less ypc vs ypcomp.

Also, nice call on the level of competition and remember, starting with Mark Helfrich stating they were going to shut down Kupp in the 2nd half, it's not as if he wasn't the focus of every defense from the start.

John, playing loose with the stats like this is exactly why you can't be trusted with the numbers. Whether it's Louisiana crabs, game fishing catch rates, or middle class incomes, one has to always be skeptical you're not massaging the stats to your liking.

Oh, and can we change the thread title or at least put in some sort of disclaimer. Kupp won what's now called the "Walter Payton Award," but it's not really the same thing as what we're used to thanks to the fact that Mickey Charles still has the naming rights but STATS has everything else from TSN. This award was just the Mickey Charles one and I have no idea if anyone even voted on it other than Charles himself. Also, Charles's FCS Awards website is so awful to look at that it would better for all of us not to use it as any kind of source.

The STATS OPOY Award, which I think most would agree is the prestige one and the truest successor to TSN's Payton award (despite Charles being the original founder of TSN), doesn't get announced until January.

Mvemjsunpx wrote:Oh, and can we change the thread title or at least put in some sort of disclaimer. Kupp won what's now called the "Walter Payton Award," but it's not really the same thing as what we're used to thanks to the fact that Mickey Charles still has the naming rights but STATS has everything else from TSN. This award was just the Mickey Charles one and I have no idea if anyone even voted on it other than Charles himself. Also, Charles's FCS Awards website is so awful to look at that it would better for all of us not to use it as any kind of source.

The STATS OPOY Award, which I think most would agree is the prestige one and the truest successor to TSN's Payton award (despite Charles being the original founder of TSN), doesn't get announced until January.

Agreed.

Mvemjsunpx wrote:Kupp averaged 170 ypg against the top-4 defenses he faced (Oregon, UNI, Montana, Portland State).

I don't have a dog in the fight, but that right there is funny.

89Hen wrote:

Mvemjsunpx wrote:Kupp averaged 170 ypg against the top-4 defenses he faced (Oregon, UNI, Montana, Portland State).

I don't have a dog in the fight, but that right there is funny.

Hey. You guys are starting to finally play some offense in the CAA now, so understand there's more to performance than just stats and shutting down shitty offenses.

PSU wasn't very good against the run, but they were 10th in passing efficiency D and kept Washington State's Air Raid and Montana's solid passing attack in check. Plus they they had two of the best DB's in the country in Coleman and Onwausor (Buchanon finalist).

Kupp caught 8 for 136 and a touchdown against them.

Well deserved for Kupp. Congrats to him.

I would have made the homer pick of a certain undisputed All-American LBer (the first in Sac history), but if it absolutely HAS to be an offensive guy, there was nobody around better than Kupp....

SuperHornet wrote:I would have made the homer pick of a certain undisputed All-American LBer (the first in Sac history), but if it absolutely HAS to be an offensive guy, there was nobody around better than Kupp....

Which it does. This isn't the Heisman.

Kupp only played 2 quarters against UNI...and I'm glad that's all he played.

Look at his stats for that game THEN make sure you remember he had another 70+ yard TD called back on a holding call.

Here's the numbers...

in 2 quarters

9 catches
179 yards
2 TD

Add that hold back in and it was 10 for 254 and 3 scores.

Harrington had 14.4 ypc, not 15.2, and the fact he only had 15 catches on the year would make that argument worthless anyway.

http://southland.org/custompages/stats/ ... 015/lu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a discrepancy between sources. I got mine from the Lamar University site:

http://www.lamarcardinals.com/cumestats ... &year=2015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And no having 14 or 15 catches doesn't make the stat worthless. Everybody knows a running back has fewer receptions than a wide receiver does. It has to do with him being an explosive player. Also had to do with Kupp's yards per catch not being high.

It's ridiculous for you guys to say I'm being deceptive with stats when the guy reached 2000 yards rushing in 10 games. When you lead FCS in rushing, all purpose yards, and scoring it is what it is. Nothing deceptive about that.

JohnStOnge wrote:

Harrington had 14.4 ypc, not 15.2, and the fact he only had 15 catches on the year would make that argument worthless anyway.

http://southland.org/custompages/stats/ ... 015/lu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a discrepancy between sources. I got mine from the Lamar University site:

http://www.lamarcardinals.com/cumestats ... &year=2015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And no having 14 or 15 catches doesn't make the stat worthless. Everybody knows a running back has fewer receptions than a wide receiver does. It has to do with him being an explosive player. Also had to do with Kupp's yards per catch not being high.

It's ridiculous for you guys to say I'm being deceptive with stats when the guy reached 2000 yards rushing in 10 games. When you lead FCS in rushing, all purpose yards, and scoring it is what it is. Nothing deceptive about that.

Kupp passed for two touchdowns and returned a punt for another. And again, against superior competition.

John, playing loose with the stats like this is exactly why you can't be trusted with the numbers. Whether it's Louisiana crabs, game fishing catch rates, or middle class incomes, one has to always be skeptical you're not massaging the stats to your liking.

That's ridiculous. When I talk about stats like that I source them. Like if I say Louisiana has the highest blue crab landings that's what the National Marine Fisheries Service says. It is what it is. When I reference middle class incomes I use CBO and Census Bureau data. They are what they are.

Just like this is what it is. Harrington accounted for more yards and more points than Kupp did. And by a pretty good margin.

The problem is that some people just refuse to accept it when the data contradict what they wish to believe. So they resort to that cliche "lying with statistics" thing. It's very convenient. When objective statistics contradict your view you just say, "Oh, you can prove anything with statistics" or some other cliche of that type.