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I hope App State and GSU are - Sun Belt Tuesday night action!!


ULALA beat WKU Tuesday night
ULALA plays again next Tuesday night

Desperation is a stinky cologne.

dbackjon wrote:I hope App State and GSU are - Sun Belt Tuesday night action!!


ULALA beat WKU Tuesday night
ULALA plays again next Tuesday night

Better than the coverage we currently get which is a byline in the Sunday Winston Salem Journal.

ASUG8 wrote:

dbackjon wrote:I hope App State and GSU are - Sun Belt Tuesday night action!!


ULALA beat WKU Tuesday night
ULALA plays again next Tuesday night

Better than the coverage we currently get which is a byline in the Sunday Winston Salem Journal.

So are you going to make the trip to Boone on a Tuesday night?

#MACtion bitches!

dbackjon wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:
Better than the coverage we currently get which is a byline in the Sunday Winston Salem Journal.

So are you going to make the trip to Boone on a Tuesday night?

Maybe - it's 2.5 hrs on a good day. There are plenty of folks more local than me that I hope will make the trip. Night games at the Rock have been good until this season.

Yes. How awful. A conference that gets games nationally televised.

Yeah, Tuesdays aren't desirable... but, neither are Thursdays... and Thursday night football has exploded over the last decade.

Skjellyfetti wrote:Yes. How awful. A conference that gets games nationally televised.

Yeah, Tuesdays aren't desirable... but, neither are Thursdays... and Thursday night football has exploded over the last decade.

For all three people tuned in

Exposure - sure. But is it worth it to the fan base, which is what is important for FCS and FBSino level schools?

Hammer on Tuesday night football all you want, but fact is ESPN is paying these schools more in one night than they made in most years in FCS.

MrTitleist wrote:#MACtion bitches!

MrTitleist wrote:Hammer on Tuesday night football all you want, but fact is ESPN is paying these schools more in one night than they made in most years in FCS.

Which makes it all the more sad, IMO. Schools with great FCS traditions and fan bases like App and GSU are selling their souls to end up in a shit tier conference with very little chance of ever being relevant in their new subdivision.

Grizalltheway wrote:

MrTitleist wrote:Hammer on Tuesday night football all you want, but fact is ESPN is paying these schools more in one night than they made in most years in FCS.

Which makes it all the more sad, IMO. Schools with great FCS traditions and fan bases like App and GSU are selling their souls to end up in a shit tier conference with very little chance of ever being relevant in their new subdivision.

Money is more important to them than relevancy. Of course, relevancy in this case is a relative term. In the pool of FBS, they will be completely irrelevant in the Sunbelt. However, as Skjelly maintains, the money and exposure make them more relevant than the FCS.

I'd personally rather stay FCS and play for championships unless a time traveler could come back and tell me I'd end up like Boise State and not like UMass.

93henfan wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:
Which makes it all the more sad, IMO. Schools with great FCS traditions and fan bases like App and GSU are selling their souls to end up in a shit tier conference with very little chance of ever being relevant in their new subdivision.

Money is more important to them than relevancy. Of course, relevancy in this case is a relative term. In the pool of FBS, they will be completely irrelevant in the Sunbelt. However, as Skjelly maintains, the money and exposure make them more relevant than the FCS.

I'd personally rather stay FCS and play for championships unless a time traveler could come back and tell me I'd end up like Boise State and not like UMass.

Ditto. Playoff games in Missoula are just too much fun to give them up when there's no guarantee we won't be the next Idaho.

Bottom line is a school like Louisiana-Lafayette loses more money by being low level FBS than it would by being FCS. Take Louisiana-Lafayette vs. nearby McNeese State, for example. According to the information available at http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/c ... 54955804/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, Louisiana-Lafayette athletic programs lost the school $6.2 million in 2011 while McNeese State's athletic programs lost that school $3.3 million.

You get that by subtracting the "total expenses" figure as well as the "school funds" figure that they've got on the "revenue" side of the table from the "total revenue" figure. They've got "school funds" as "revenue" for the athletic program but it's not revenue for the school. It's money the school has to kick in to try to balance the books. It's a cost ... an expense ... for the school.

And that's the situation running what in the context of FBS is a low budget football program that cannot possibly hope to compete in the mainstream of the subdivision. Louisiana-Lafayette is a "little sister of the poor" that gets the overwhelming preponderance of its FBS wins over other "little sisters of the poor". Like other Sun Belt teams.

McNeese can compete to be the best at its level of competition. It's been a while but the Cowboys have been to the national championship game twice; losing by 1 point the first time and losing to a team it beat during the regular season on the other occasion. Louisiana-Lafayette's potential within FBS is to be, at best, approaching the middle of the pack in that subdivision. And most of the time their football team is going to be solidly entrenched among those at the bottom of the barrel. Like right now Louisiana-Lafayette is enjoying one of its greatest runs of success in its history as a I-A/FBS program and it's rated 74th in that College Football Ranking Composite thing for FBS schools. That's what they're losing more money for.

Money is more important to them than relevancy.

I don't know what it's going to take to dispel the myth that a school is likely to gain financially by virtue of moving from FCS to FBS. The NCAA put out a report years ago showing that's not the case. And it's been noted several times since. Revenues increase but not enough to offset increased expenses.

I guess when I get time I'll go through that finances database I just linked and run the numbers again. I've done it before from other sources. But I-AA/FCS schools clearly generally lose less money than non-BCS FBS schools do. And if you compare schools that have made the move from I-AA/FCS to FBS it's no contest. It's not a financial winner. If you make a million dollars more in revenue but incur two million more in expenses you don't come out ahead.

Here's another one for you.

Boise State lost $7.1 million on its athletic programs in 2011. Idaho lost $6.8 million.

Idaho State lost $4.7 million.

Now, don't get me wrong. If you can get to where Boise State has gotten I can understand being willing to lose more money.

But if what you want is to improve the finances what Boise State did didn't do that.

And, of course, neither did what Idaho did. And what happened to Idaho in terms of competitiveness is a whole lot more likely to happen to your program when you go to FBS than what happened to Boise State is.

What did the football program do money wise?

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Louisiana-Lafayette - the Flagship of the Sun Belt - only team not to be FCS at one time.

For a Flagship, let's look at the results, 2000-2012

Against BCS conference teams: 1-28 Average margin of loss - 29 points.
Only win - 2 points against Kansas State in Lafayette

Against other FBS non-conference: 8-18

Against FCS teams: 7-4 (including three FCS losses in one year)

In 2013, where they are leading the Sun Belt, they added two more BCS losses (20 and 21 points, 21 points to Kansas State), a FCS win, and a MAC win.


Impressive, don't ya think?

clenz wrote:What did the football program do money wise?

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You can't look solely at the football program - moving to FBS requires an additional two sports and 22 additional women's schollies. Those expenses have to be factored into the football equation.

clenz wrote:What did the football program do money wise?

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That database doesn't break it down by sport. But when you go FBS in football you have to spend more money on all of your athletic programs including womens' sports. So if you want to judge the financial impact on the school you have to look at the revenues and expenses as well as school subsidies to the entire athletic program anyway. It's not likely to result in an improvement to the bottom line.

If you want your school to go FBS for other reasons then do it for other reasons. But don't do it because you think it's going to be a financial winner because it's not.

93henfan wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:
Which makes it all the more sad, IMO. Schools with great FCS traditions and fan bases like App and GSU are selling their souls to end up in a shit tier conference with very little chance of ever being relevant in their new subdivision.

Money is more important to them than relevancy. Of course, relevancy in this case is a relative term. In the pool of FBS, they will be completely irrelevant in the Sunbelt. However, as Skjelly maintains, the money and exposure make them more relevant than the FCS.

I'd personally rather stay FCS and play for championships unless a time traveler could come back and tell me I'd end up like Boise State and not like UMass.

You almost make it sound like FCS as a whole has relevance now. You have SEC, a couple of ACC teams, a couple of PAC 10 teams, etc. that dominate television. Going to Sunbelt isn't my cup of tea, but if we went CUSA would it be better? We sure as hell wouldn't be going ACC...or..has anybody seen an ECU game on primetime recently? If so, they're few and far between. Add in Sunday NFL and most of us are pretty saturated by Monday (sometimes by Saturday night ). I get my not live scores via box score and I should be ashamed, but I have things to do.

SW LA...once a proud (?) member of the now-defunct football division of the Big West Conference...and I have the 1995 pocket schedule booklet (from UOP) to prove it. (Unfortunately, they beat us at their place 45-3. ) Being 3-8 sucked, even if we WERE beat up from playing the likes of Fresneck, Arizona, Nebraska, Oregon, and Oregon State all in the first five weeks of the season....

Having successful athletic programs, or even athletic programs that are in the spotlight, are the front door to a University. Do you think anyone outside of the local populations have ever heard of schools like George Mason before their Final Four run? Think anyone's heard of Florida Gulf Coast before their Sweet 16 run? Anyone hear of Boise State before they beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl? Hell, even Idaho, being a joke of a FB program, is more known than most FCS programs. That's worth something. Besides, I like watching teams like Louisiana-Lafayette.. Terrance Broadway is a decent player.

dbackjon wrote:Louisiana-Lafayette - the Flagship of the Sun Belt - only team not to be FCS at one time.

For a Flagship, let's look at the results, 2000-2012

Against BCS conference teams: 1-28 Average margin of loss - 29 points.
Only win - 2 points against Kansas State in Lafayette

Against other FBS non-conference: 8-18

Against FCS teams: 7-4 (including three FCS losses in one year)

In 2013, where they are leading the Sun Belt, they added two more BCS losses (20 and 21 points, 21 points to Kansas State), a FCS win, and a MAC win.


Impressive, don't ya think?

Well, Louisiana Lafayette had been a shitty program and has just recently started putting things together in the last 3 years. They've won a single Sun Belt title since the league was founded.

It's like posting Towson's record over the last 10 years... and then saying that the CAA obviously sucks... since a shitty team like Towson* has won two CAA titles in a row and is in the race for a 3rd straight.



Also, I like your assumption that since Louisiana Lafayette has never been FCS... that they're the flagship of the Sun Belt. I read that as FCS being somehow inferior to FBS?




*I know Towson isn't a shitty team. Just reducio ad absurdum

ASUG8 wrote:

93henfan wrote:
Money is more important to them than relevancy. Of course, relevancy in this case is a relative term. In the pool of FBS, they will be completely irrelevant in the Sunbelt. However, as Skjelly maintains, the money and exposure make them more relevant than the FCS.

I'd personally rather stay FCS and play for championships unless a time traveler could come back and tell me I'd end up like Boise State and not like UMass.

You almost make it sound like FCS as a whole has relevance now. You have SEC, a couple of ACC teams, a couple of PAC 10 teams, etc. that dominate television. Going to Sunbelt isn't my cup of tea, but if we went CUSA would it be better? We sure as hell wouldn't be going ACC...or..has anybody seen an ECU game on primetime recently? If so, they're few and far between. Add in Sunday NFL and most of us are pretty saturated by Monday (sometimes by Saturday night ). I get my not live scores via box score and I should be ashamed, but I have things to do.

No. Reread my post. I specifically said the money and exposure will make you more relevant than FCS. However, you'll never have anything more to look forward to than playing Buffalo in the Bubba's Bail Bonds Bowl.