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Shouldnt the Pioneer League have an automatic bid into the playoffs with the rest of the leagues?

The Pioneer is considered to be a joke since they are non- or limited-schollie schools.

Its not the only conference without an auto bid.

Because it is garbage...look what UNI does to Drake everytime they play.


Drake refused to play UNI anymore unless it is at Drake.

Well that is not entirely true. The one good team in the Pioneer is San Diego who seems to have pretty good succses against other conference opponents they play. For some reason they have refused (several times i might add) to join the Great West or any other Conference. I guess they like being a joke .

SUUTbird wrote:Well that is not entirely true. The one good team in the Pioneer is San Diego who seems to have pretty good succses against other conference opponents they play. For some reason they have refused (several times i might add) to join the Great West or any other Conference. I guess they like being a joke .

No they don't like being a joke (though they are usually the best of the "jokes"). But they also don't like paying for scholarships, I imagine.

Mvemjsunpx wrote:

SUUTbird wrote:Well that is not entirely true. The one good team in the Pioneer is San Diego who seems to have pretty good succses against other conference opponents they play. For some reason they have refused (several times i might add) to join the Great West or any other Conference. I guess they like being a joke .

No they don't like being a joke (though they are usually the best of the "jokes"). But they also don't like paying for scholarships, I imagine.

Well if they joined the Great West their travel costs alone for every single football season would be more then enough to cover the scholarships!

First off - welcome bballer12!

Pioneer League, as a non-scholarship league, has not shown the commitment needed to get an auto-bid. With each team playing, and in some cases losing to multiple NAIA and D-III teams is not going to get an auto-bid.

All wrong. The main reason the Pioneer League doesn't have a bid is that they've never applied for one. The NCAA won't give you one unless you ask for it.

The PFL commissioner is also working for the Valley, so there's obviously a conflict, but she also serves the policy of the college presidents.

When the number of bids was limited to 8, the NCAA was supposed to give them to what they considered the best conferences. Now that the playoffs have expanded, that's no longer an issue. They Ivy League also has never applied, and the SWAC essentially gave theirs up to play a profitable championship game instead.

bballer12 wrote:Shouldnt the Pioneer League have an automatic bid into the playoffs with the rest of the leagues?

let me return the question:

Why SHOULD they have an automatic bid?

BigApp wrote:

bballer12 wrote:Shouldnt the Pioneer League have an automatic bid into the playoffs with the rest of the leagues?

let me return the question:

Why SHOULD they have an automatic bid?

Outstanding question!!!

Maybe they will if SacSt joins.....

BigApp wrote:

bballer12 wrote:Shouldnt the Pioneer League have an automatic bid into the playoffs with the rest of the leagues?

let me return the question:

Why SHOULD they have an automatic bid?

Because they fulfill all of the NCAA requirements for number of teams with common competition for league eligiblity

and

Because if they apply for it and are denied, they would be the ONLY eligible conference in the ENTIRE NCAA in ANY sport without an automatic bid to their sport's championship tournament.

In spite of the attitude of established leagues, autobid is hardly some exclusive "privilege" for the "worthy". Every other sport manages to get by with varying quality of leagues.

UAalum72 wrote:

BigApp wrote:
let me return the question:

Why SHOULD they have an automatic bid?

Because they fulfill all of the NCAA requirements for number of teams with common competition for league eligiblity

and

Because if they apply for it and are denied, they would be the ONLY eligible conference in the ENTIRE NCAA in ANY sport without an automatic bid to their sport's championship tournament.

In spite of the attitude of established leagues, autobid is hardly some exclusive "privilege" for the "worthy". Every other sport manages to get by with varying quality of leagues.

Yes and no.

I am in favor of getting the Northeast Conference an autobid - now that they have upped the scholarship requirements.

But the non-schollies really are D-I in name only, because of Basketball. If not for the Dayton rule, they would all be playing D-III football. They have no interest in D-I football. If they did, they would not be playing non-schollie.

dbackjon wrote:

UAalum72 wrote: Because they fulfill all of the NCAA requirements for number of teams with common competition for league eligiblity

and

Because if they apply for it and are denied, they would be the ONLY eligible conference in the ENTIRE NCAA in ANY sport without an automatic bid to their sport's championship tournament.

In spite of the attitude of established leagues, autobid is hardly some exclusive "privilege" for the "worthy". Every other sport manages to get by with varying quality of leagues.

Yes and no.

I am in favor of getting the Northeast Conference an autobid - now that they have upped the scholarship requirements.

But the non-schollies really are D-I in name only, because of Basketball. If not for the Dayton rule, they would all be playing D-III football. They have no interest in D-I football. If they did, they would not be playing non-schollie.

Do you feel the same about the Ivy league?

danefan wrote:

dbackjon wrote:
Yes and no.

I am in favor of getting the Northeast Conference an autobid - now that they have upped the scholarship requirements.

But the non-schollies really are D-I in name only, because of Basketball. If not for the Dayton rule, they would all be playing D-III football. They have no interest in D-I football. If they did, they would not be playing non-schollie.

Do you feel the same about the Ivy league?

IVY league gives out defacto scholarships - and most have made substantial commitments to football. If they wanted in the post season, I would consider it then. Until then, as Jesse would say, the point is moot.

dbackjon wrote:

danefan wrote:
Do you feel the same about the Ivy league?

IVY league gives out defacto scholarships - and most have made substantial commitments to football. If they wanted in the post season, I would consider it then. Until then, as Jesse would say, the point is moot.

The Ivy league has the exact same financial aid system that the Pioneer does. There are many kids on Pioneer league schools that receive academic aid, just as the Ivy kids do.

danefan wrote:

dbackjon wrote:
IVY league gives out defacto scholarships - and most have made substantial commitments to football. If they wanted in the post season, I would consider it then. Until then, as Jesse would say, the point is moot.

The Ivy league has the exact same financial aid system that the Pioneer does. There are many kids on Pioneer league schools that receive academic aid, just as the Ivy kids do.

Alledgely uses

Pioneer is true non-schollie football.

dbackjon wrote:

danefan wrote:
The Ivy league has the exact same financial aid system that the Pioneer does. There are many kids on Pioneer league schools that receive academic aid, just as the Ivy kids do.

Alledgely uses

Pioneer is true non-schollie football.

Once again, I fail to see the difference.

The schools recruit the same - "you are a pretty good football player, your grades are borderline for our institution and normally wouldn't get you a lot of academic aid. But we have "friends" in the financial aid and admissions office, so you don't have to worry."

dbackjon wrote:But the non-schollies really are D-I in name only, because of Basketball. If not for the Dayton rule, they would all be playing D-III football. They have no interest in D-I football. If they did, they would not be playing non-schollie.

If they had no interest in D-I football, they wouldn't be playing football. They are D-I institutions with at least 14 sports. D-III school only need eight.

Minimum scholarship requirements have been proposed several times and been rejected each time. As long as they fulfill the NCAA's requirements, they shoud have an autobid - if they ask for one. Wishing for an elite, privileged playoff field are irrelevant to the NCAA.

UAalum72 wrote:

dbackjon wrote:But the non-schollies really are D-I in name only, because of Basketball. If not for the Dayton rule, they would all be playing D-III football. They have no interest in D-I football. If they did, they would not be playing non-schollie.

If they had no interest in D-I football, they wouldn't be playing football. They are D-I institutions with at least 14 sports. D-III school only need eight.

Minimum scholarship requirements have been proposed several times and been rejected each time. As long as they fulfill the NCAA's requirements, they shoud have an autobid - if they ask for one. Wishing for an elite, privileged playoff field are irrelevant to the NCAA.

they did play D-III football until the Dayton rule came out - which stated that if your basketball team was D-I, all of your other sports had to be D-I.

Without that rule, they would all be playing D-III football.

dbackjon wrote:

UAalum72 wrote: If they had no interest in D-I football, they wouldn't be playing football. They are D-I institutions with at least 14 sports. D-III school only need eight.

Minimum scholarship requirements have been proposed several times and been rejected each time. As long as they fulfill the NCAA's requirements, they shoud have an autobid - if they ask for one. Wishing for an elite, privileged playoff field are irrelevant to the NCAA.

they did play D-III football until the Dayton rule came out - which stated that if your basketball team was D-I, all of your other sports had to be D-I.

Without that rule, they would all be playing D-III football.

Right, and UAalumn72 knows that. What he's saying is that if they didn't have a committment to playing DI football they wouldn't be playing football at all, a la Iona, Siena, St. John's, etc..... They have committed to Division I sports programs, including DI football. They have done everything the NCAA has asked them to do. The NCAA has not mandated scholarship limits and has refused to do so on numerous occasions. Why should the PFL be "punished" if they do everything they have been asked to do?

I'm not advocating for giving the PFL a AQ until they ask for one. But if there were to ask for one, the NCAA (and FCS schools) have no argument against giving it to them.