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Kind of surprised it hasn't shipped yet? Anybody get theirs?

Not being shipped to "later next week". I have to say I'm extremely disappointed. Even though it's a great resource I find that once the season starts I don't get as much out of it. If he runs one again next year I'm down as doubtful as a repeat customer.

I feel the same way.... Preview should mean I see it weeks or months before the season starts not a few days. Also pushing the ship date back after you get prepaid orders is not cool.

CPAlum wrote:Kind of surprised it hasn't shipped yet? Anybody get theirs?

Website says they will have it in around next week. Guessing we'll be getting ours with 10 days or so. Wish it had come out sooner, but I'm glad somebody does one that's not two pages of meaningless crap like the other magazines do when it comes to FCS, DII, DIII, etc.


I wish magazine publishers knew that there were people out there who actually care about lesser level college football. Yes, I'd rather watch Georgia-Florida than Pittsburg State vs. Grand Valley State or St. John's vs. Mount Union, but it's still college football.

rkwittem wrote:

CPAlum wrote: I'd rather watch Georgia-Florida than Pittsburg State vs. Grand Valley State or St. John's vs. Mount Union, but it's still college football.

I wouldn't

GSUhooligan wrote:

rkwittem wrote:

I wouldn't

Wait...are you saying you'd rather watch DII or DIII football than UGA-Florida or just a big no to FBS football in general?

D-II or III vs UG-UF. I already know the outcome of the cocktail party, so it is pointless to watch it. Give me the Gorillas vs Lakers.

rkwittem wrote:

GSUhooligan wrote: I wouldn't

Wait...are you saying you'd rather watch DII or DIII football than UGA-Florida or just a big no to FBS football in general?

Yes...in most cases. I go to d3 games around here rather than watch 2fbs teams I don't really care about.

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PAC-12 (especially Oregon) is pretty much all I actively watch anymore.

Between espn networks, big ten network, tivo, and the internet I have access to hundreds of games a week...even during the summer...from the fbs. The vast majorty of them I feel are unwatchable.work no connection to either team watching Iowa/Indiana sucks (and I live in freaking iowa). UCONN/Rutgers? Like hell I'm watching that.

I'm a huge michigan fan, but at this point I've seen every michigan game from last year at least twice...a couple 8or9 times....

Very few fbs games get me excited like fcs and let games. Is the 'talent' as good, no. is it more fun to watch? You fucking bet.

Come saturday in the fall the only fbs games I make sure to catch are michigan, and a couple others. However, ill have 3 or 4 games going on my computer from fcs/d2

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clenz wrote:Between espn networks, big ten network, tivo, and the internet I have access to hundreds of games a week...even during the summer...from the fbs. The vast majorty of them I feel are unwatchable.work no connection to either team watching Iowa/Indiana sucks (and I live in freaking iowa). UCONN/Rutgers? Like hell I'm watching that.

I'm a huge michigan fan, but at this point I've seen every michigan game from last year at least twice...a couple 8or9 times....

Very few fbs games get me excited like fcs and let games. Is the 'talent' as good, no. is it more fun to watch? You fucking bet.

Come saturday in the fall the only fbs games I make sure to catch are michigan, and a couple others. However, ill have 3 or 4 games going on my computer from fcs/d2

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Do I dare ask what's wrong with FBS football or what you don't like about it?
Is it that your local teams aren't as good or are you one (I mean this respectfully) of the "high horse" types who doesn't like the down and dirty side of FBS football (like the money and shady recruiting, etc.)? (maybe it's something else, but those are the first two things I think of when I think about the unlikable side of FBS football).

rkwittem wrote:

GSUhooligan wrote: I wouldn't

Wait...are you saying you'd rather watch DII or DIII football than UGA-Florida or just a big no to FBS football in general?

I have family playing DIII and High School for one thing, that take priority over FBS. I'll watch FCS over FBS, Direct-TV has several games on every week. FBS needs to be an area team like Minnesota or Nebraska, or a big game for me to watch.

rkwittem wrote:

clenz wrote:Between espn networks, big ten network, tivo, and the internet I have access to hundreds of games a week...even during the summer...from the fbs. The vast majorty of them I feel are unwatchable.work no connection to either team watching Iowa/Indiana sucks (and I live in freaking iowa). UCONN/Rutgers? Like hell I'm watching that.

I'm a huge michigan fan, but at this point I've seen every michigan game from last year at least twice...a couple 8or9 times....

Very few fbs games get me excited like fcs and let games. Is the 'talent' as good, no. is it more fun to watch? You **** bet.

Come saturday in the fall the only fbs games I make sure to catch are michigan, and a couple others. However, ill have 3 or 4 games going on my computer from fcs/d2

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Do I dare ask what's wrong with FBS football or what you don't like about it?
Is it that your local teams aren't as good or are you one (I mean this respectfully) of the "high horse" types who doesn't like the down and dirty side of FBS football (like the money and shady recruiting, etc.)? (maybe it's something else, but those are the first two things I think of when I think about the unlikable side of FBS football).

Out here in Portland, one can get saturated with all things FBS without even looking for any information about it. I don't go out of my way to find out about the Ducks or the Beavers, but I feel like I could be just as much of an "expert" on all things Pac-12 as the Big Sky. Come Sunday I could tell you how big a crap Kelly took before the game, yet I have to go to page 12 in the sports section to find any information on the non-FBS games, Portland State included. There is no effort in following FBS out here. Everyone is doing it.

It is different. Your team is the major player in your market. You don't have the FBS on your big sports station constantly spewing FBS (and I stress the BS part in that) over and over. I don't want to know that the Ducks' second string DL hurt his little finger in practice Wednesday and may not play this wekend. I want to know how many sacks our D-line had last week, but that takes a little digging around here.

rkwittem wrote:

clenz wrote:Between espn networks, big ten network, tivo, and the internet I have access to hundreds of games a week...even during the summer...from the fbs. The vast majorty of them I feel are unwatchable.work no connection to either team watching Iowa/Indiana sucks (and I live in freaking iowa). UCONN/Rutgers? Like hell I'm watching that.

I'm a huge michigan fan, but at this point I've seen every michigan game from last year at least twice...a couple 8or9 times....

Very few fbs games get me excited like fcs and let games. Is the 'talent' as good, no. is it more fun to watch? You fucking bet.

Come saturday in the fall the only fbs games I make sure to catch are michigan, and a couple others. However, ill have 3 or 4 games going on my computer from fcs/d2

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Do I dare ask what's wrong with FBS football or what you don't like about it?
Is it that your local teams aren't as good or are you one (I mean this respectfully) of the "high horse" types who doesn't like the down and dirty side of FBS football (like the money and shady recruiting, etc.)? (maybe it's something else, but those are the first two things I think of when I think about the unlikable side of FBS football).

You clearly are one of those "high horse" people that thinks only FBS...let me rephrase that...BCS football is worth watching, aren't you?


The teams around me aren't great, but the aren't bad. Iowa (90 miles) is typically a 7-9 win team that is ranked 20-25th, Iowa State (97 miles) has been bad but is on their way up, Minnesota (218 miles)sucks, Wisconsin (180 miles) is damn good, and Illinois (330 miles/4.5 hours) is mostly respectable, Nebraska (310 miles/4.5hours), University of Missouri (320 miles/right at 5 hours). Those are all within a 5 hour drive of my current address, with about a dozen more in the 5-7 hour drive. Couple that with the fact that Iowa doesn't have a pro team, and that is MORE than made up for by the way the Hawkeyes are talked about - and their fan base in general - and it just gets old. They some how make the front page of the sports section with football news 12 months a year. I could, on any given Saturday during football season, leave my house by 5AM and catch kick off at about 10-20 FBS schools that had even an early afternoon kick off. We are closer to at least 3 BCS school than the closest MVFC school...

Within a 5 hour drive of Fargo you have........Minnesota at about 3.5-4 hours (250 miles and Cedar Falls is actually 30 miles closer). It's another 3 or 4 hours before you get to the next FBS school. The world of FBS to you is what ESPN, Fox Sports, etc... tell you it is.

Live anywhere even close to FBS markets and all you here is how great it is, how everything else sucks, is D2, doesn't deserve to have football, etc... and you start to get sick of it. Especially when the entirety of your schools athletic department could keep up with the schools telling you that as you tend to beat them at most sports you play them in....even though your athletic departments entire budget is less than their football only budget.

I am a Michigan fan....I follow Michigan. However, outside of hating Notre Dame, that school in Ohio, Michigan State and Iowa and hoping they lose every game I don't really give a rats ass what happens there. Are some games fun to watch? Sure. However, knowing they have almost ZERO impact on what is going to happen at the end of the season doesn't appeal to me. Oh, that team might not get to go to this shitty bowl, now it's this shitty bowl....THE EXCITEMENT!

Watching BCS conference games tends to "sicken" me for many reasons - most of them being that it isn't about the school - it's about the players. The fact that the media sucks the proverbial dick of them 24/7 and refuses to even acknowledge any other form of football is played - except the MAC games they show Tuesday-Friday nights to fill up air space....Those games don't even make sportscenter unless it was a 50-40 type game.

Watching the MAC, WAC, most of the CUSA, Sun Belt, etc... sucks. They are nothing more than FCS schools with 22 more scholarships, but the production value on most of those games is less than that of FCS games. I have zero connection to those schools for any reason - other than UNI's basketball program played Northern Illinois in 2007.

Do I have a connection to the FCS games I watch? Sure...this place. I know between here and AGS I'll find a SBU and Albany fan to talk too. I know that game actually matters towards the long term outcome of the season. If SBU loses to Albany it could keep them out of the playoffs completely, or greatly hurt their seeding and now instead of getting a nice first round match up they get sent to NDSU, UNI, App St, Georgia Southern, etc...

The game seems purer to watch. The players may show boat, but it's clear it's a team thing - not a LOOK AT ME ON NATIONAL TV GET ME TO THE DRAFT thing. It isn't about millions of dollars in TV revenue - it's about playing it because they love playing it. How many FBS programs have their players come out onto the field after the game for an hour or two (in uniform) to sign autographs, take photos, talk to the fans, etc... ON THE FIELD after EVERY GAME win or loss? Where academics are actually pushed for the students, and while everyone may know who they are they aren't treated differently.


I could keep going, but it isn't going to change your holier than thou approach to what FCS/D2/D3/NAIA is.








Oh, and as for my part about how close we are to all of those schools - I hope that NDSU and Montana fans now understand why UNI can be as good as we are year in and year out and not sell out consistently. Iowa drawks 70,585 in the stadium for every game, plus 100k+ just to tailgate and watch at bars. Iowa State draws 50K, plus people to tailgate and watch in bars. Wisconsin 80k+ for just the game, etc...


When you are the only show in town you should draw. It amazes me that ASU draws like they do with where they are located.

clenz....that was pretty much spot on.....nice words.

bluehenbillk wrote:Not being shipped to "later next week". I have to say I'm extremely disappointed. Even though it's a great resource I find that once the season starts I don't get as much out of it. If he runs one again next year I'm down as doubtful as a repeat customer.

I guess I can lose the excitement about checking my mail until later in the week.

clenz wrote:

rkwittem wrote: Do I dare ask what's wrong with FBS football or what you don't like about it?
Is it that your local teams aren't as good or are you one (I mean this respectfully) of the "high horse" types who doesn't like the down and dirty side of FBS football (like the money and shady recruiting, etc.)? (maybe it's something else, but those are the first two things I think of when I think about the unlikable side of FBS football).

You clearly are one of those "high horse" people that thinks only FBS...let me rephrase that...BCS football is worth watching, aren't you?


The teams around me aren't great, but the aren't bad. Iowa (90 miles) is typically a 7-9 win team that is ranked 20-25th, Iowa State (97 miles) has been bad but is on their way up, Minnesota (218 miles)sucks, Wisconsin (180 miles) is damn good, and Illinois (330 miles/4.5 hours) is mostly respectable, Nebraska (310 miles/4.5hours), University of Missouri (320 miles/right at 5 hours). Those are all within a 5 hour drive of my current address, with about a dozen more in the 5-7 hour drive. Couple that with the fact that Iowa doesn't have a pro team, and that is MORE than made up for by the way the Hawkeyes are talked about - and their fan base in general - and it just gets old. They some how make the front page of the sports section with football news 12 months a year. I could, on any given Saturday during football season, leave my house by 5AM and catch kick off at about 10-20 FBS schools that had even an early afternoon kick off. We are closer to at least 3 BCS school than the closest MVFC school...

Within a 5 hour drive of Fargo you have........Minnesota at about 3.5-4 hours (250 miles and Cedar Falls is actually 30 miles closer). It's another 3 or 4 hours before you get to the next FBS school. The world of FBS to you is what ESPN, Fox Sports, etc... tell you it is.

Live anywhere even close to FBS markets and all you here is how great it is, how everything else sucks, is D2, doesn't deserve to have football, etc... and you start to get sick of it. Especially when the entirety of your schools athletic department could keep up with the schools telling you that as you tend to beat them at most sports you play them in....even though your athletic departments entire budget is less than their football only budget.

I am a Michigan fan....I follow Michigan. However, outside of hating Notre Dame, that school in Ohio, Michigan State and Iowa and hoping they lose every game I don't really give a rats ass what happens there. Are some games fun to watch? Sure. However, knowing they have almost ZERO impact on what is going to happen at the end of the season doesn't appeal to me. Oh, that team might not get to go to this shitty bowl, now it's this shitty bowl....THE EXCITEMENT!

Watching BCS conference games tends to "sicken" me for many reasons - most of them being that it isn't about the school - it's about the players. The fact that the media sucks the proverbial dick of them 24/7 and refuses to even acknowledge any other form of football is played - except the MAC games they show Tuesday-Friday nights to fill up air space....Those games don't even make sportscenter unless it was a 50-40 type game.

Watching the MAC, WAC, most of the CUSA, Sun Belt, etc... sucks. They are nothing more than FCS schools with 22 more scholarships, but the production value on most of those games is less than that of FCS games. I have zero connection to those schools for any reason - other than UNI's basketball program played Northern Illinois in 2007.

Do I have a connection to the FCS games I watch? Sure...this place. I know between here and AGS I'll find a SBU and Albany fan to talk too. I know that game actually matters towards the long term outcome of the season. If SBU loses to Albany it could keep them out of the playoffs completely, or greatly hurt their seeding and now instead of getting a nice first round match up they get sent to NDSU, UNI, App St, Georgia Southern, etc...

The game seems purer to watch. The players may show boat, but it's clear it's a team thing - not a LOOK AT ME ON NATIONAL TV GET ME TO THE DRAFT thing. It isn't about millions of dollars in TV revenue - it's about playing it because they love playing it. How many FBS programs have their players come out onto the field after the game for an hour or two (in uniform) to sign autographs, take photos, talk to the fans, etc... ON THE FIELD after EVERY GAME win or loss? Where academics are actually pushed for the students, and while everyone may know who they are they aren't treated differently.


I could keep going, but it isn't going to change your holier than thou approach to what FCS/D2/D3/NAIA is.








Oh, and as for my part about how close we are to all of those schools - I hope that NDSU and Montana fans now understand why UNI can be as good as we are year in and year out and not sell out consistently. Iowa drawks 70,585 in the stadium for every game, plus 100k+ just to tailgate and watch at bars. Iowa State draws 50K, plus people to tailgate and watch in bars. Wisconsin 80k+ for just the game, etc...


When you are the only show in town you should draw. It amazes me that ASU draws like they do with where they are located.

Took the time to read it and it was well worth it. Good post!

I'm one of those that also loves the FCS. But as Stony Brook fan, being surrounded by the FBS schools in the area (Rutgers, Syracuse, Uconn, Army) leaves little potential for FCS schools like SBU. The Northeast is not a College Football region by any means and it worries me that if SBU doesn't move up they will eventually be crushed just like Hofstra, Northeastern, etc. Our only way to survive in the long term is to move up. FCS doesn't draw enough in Long Island to break even so its a serious problem

I love the FCS, the playoffs, the more transparent environment, but the lack of revenue in this level will probably push schools like SBU to consider FBS sooner-than-later... it's a sad reality

clenz wrote:

rkwittem wrote: Do I dare ask what's wrong with FBS football or what you don't like about it?
Is it that your local teams aren't as good or are you one (I mean this respectfully) of the "high horse" types who doesn't like the down and dirty side of FBS football (like the money and shady recruiting, etc.)? (maybe it's something else, but those are the first two things I think of when I think about the unlikable side of FBS football).

You clearly are one of those "high horse" people that thinks only FBS...let me rephrase that...BCS football is worth watching, aren't you?


The teams around me aren't great, but the aren't bad. Iowa (90 miles) is typically a 7-9 win team that is ranked 20-25th, Iowa State (97 miles) has been bad but is on their way up, Minnesota (218 miles)sucks, Wisconsin (180 miles) is damn good, and Illinois (330 miles/4.5 hours) is mostly respectable, Nebraska (310 miles/4.5hours), University of Missouri (320 miles/right at 5 hours). Those are all within a 5 hour drive of my current address, with about a dozen more in the 5-7 hour drive. Couple that with the fact that Iowa doesn't have a pro team, and that is MORE than made up for by the way the Hawkeyes are talked about - and their fan base in general - and it just gets old. They some how make the front page of the sports section with football news 12 months a year. I could, on any given Saturday during football season, leave my house by 5AM and catch kick off at about 10-20 FBS schools that had even an early afternoon kick off. We are closer to at least 3 BCS school than the closest MVFC school...

Within a 5 hour drive of Fargo you have........Minnesota at about 3.5-4 hours (250 miles and Cedar Falls is actually 30 miles closer). It's another 3 or 4 hours before you get to the next FBS school. The world of FBS to you is what ESPN, Fox Sports, etc... tell you it is.

Live anywhere even close to FBS markets and all you here is how great it is, how everything else sucks, is D2, doesn't deserve to have football, etc... and you start to get sick of it. Especially when the entirety of your schools athletic department could keep up with the schools telling you that as you tend to beat them at most sports you play them in....even though your athletic departments entire budget is less than their football only budget.

I am a Michigan fan....I follow Michigan. However, outside of hating Notre Dame, that school in Ohio, Michigan State and Iowa and hoping they lose every game I don't really give a rats ass what happens there. Are some games fun to watch? Sure. However, knowing they have almost ZERO impact on what is going to happen at the end of the season doesn't appeal to me. Oh, that team might not get to go to this shitty bowl, now it's this shitty bowl....THE EXCITEMENT!

Watching BCS conference games tends to "sicken" me for many reasons - most of them being that it isn't about the school - it's about the players. The fact that the media sucks the proverbial dick of them 24/7 and refuses to even acknowledge any other form of football is played - except the MAC games they show Tuesday-Friday nights to fill up air space....Those games don't even make sportscenter unless it was a 50-40 type game.

Watching the MAC, WAC, most of the CUSA, Sun Belt, etc... sucks. They are nothing more than FCS schools with 22 more scholarships, but the production value on most of those games is less than that of FCS games. I have zero connection to those schools for any reason - other than UNI's basketball program played Northern Illinois in 2007.

Do I have a connection to the FCS games I watch? Sure...this place. I know between here and AGS I'll find a SBU and Albany fan to talk too. I know that game actually matters towards the long term outcome of the season. If SBU loses to Albany it could keep them out of the playoffs completely, or greatly hurt their seeding and now instead of getting a nice first round match up they get sent to NDSU, UNI, App St, Georgia Southern, etc...

The game seems purer to watch. The players may show boat, but it's clear it's a team thing - not a LOOK AT ME ON NATIONAL TV GET ME TO THE DRAFT thing. It isn't about millions of dollars in TV revenue - it's about playing it because they love playing it. How many FBS programs have their players come out onto the field after the game for an hour or two (in uniform) to sign autographs, take photos, talk to the fans, etc... ON THE FIELD after EVERY GAME win or loss? Where academics are actually pushed for the students, and while everyone may know who they are they aren't treated differently.


I could keep going, but it isn't going to change your holier than thou approach to what FCS/D2/D3/NAIA is.








Oh, and as for my part about how close we are to all of those schools - I hope that NDSU and Montana fans now understand why UNI can be as good as we are year in and year out and not sell out consistently. Iowa drawks 70,585 in the stadium for every game, plus 100k+ just to tailgate and watch at bars. Iowa State draws 50K, plus people to tailgate and watch in bars. Wisconsin 80k+ for just the game, etc...


When you are the only show in town you should draw. It amazes me that ASU draws like they do with where they are located.

You're right...I'm clearly the holier-than-thou one here. This coming from the guy who just went on a angry rant about his FCS team getting squeezed by a Big Ten and Big XII team. And from the same guy who just said that FBS isn't as "pure" as FCS football because "it's more of a team game"...because LSU, Alabama, etc. are just collections of individuals who happen to be good at massive public institutions. They only care about themselves, not their teammates, their school, or the general welfare of FBS football. That's why guys like Andrew Luck and Matthew Barkley have stayed in school...because they're all about themselves. (Even when Barkley says 2012 is about 'unfinished business' for USC. ) Don't get mad at me because your local paper (correctly) assumes more people care about major college football than FCS football.

First off, you need to understand that I'm not a born-and-bred North Dakotan. I was mostly raised here but I grew up in Cincinnati. So I'm very familiar with the hero worship of FBS programs. And when your program is as consistently interesting and good as Ohio State and your local pro teams suck, it makes liking Ohio State (and by extension, the rest of FBS) much more appealing. I grew up spending my Saturdays watching major college football. It's my NFL. I watch as many games as I can, even if the teams are "FCS teams with more scholarships" as you put it. To this day, I prefer college games over pro games...I'd rather go the Bison game than a Vikings game. All that being said, I loathe being painted as the "elitist" (unless I'm doing it) just because I like FBS more than FCS. Do you even watch D2 football? Or DIII? North Dakota doesn't have any DII teams anymore (well, except UND ) or DIII. There is one DIII school near Fargo but I have to choose between FCS and their game weekly...and I go to the NDSU game. I guess I really am an elitist.

Also...not every FCS game matters just because there is a playoff. SWAC and Ivy league games don't mean a damn thing using your logic. So spare me the "holier than thou" approach.

You must have missed the part where I said I go to d3 games in person...if the only d2 in the state of iowa was closer...still only 45 min...and didnt suck something fierce I'd make an effort to get their as well.

Why don't you like the nfl? Clearly the best football there is in america.

The fact is that the fbs isn't what you want to believe it is. There are more fantastic games youare missing than watching if you areonly watching fbs and ndsu.

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clenz wrote:You must have missed the part where I said I go to d3 games in person...if the only d2 in the state of iowa was closer...still only 45 min...and didnt suck something fierce I'd make an effort to get their as well.

Why don't you like the nfl? Clearly the best football there is in america.

The fact is that the fbs isn't what you want to believe it is. There are more fantastic games you are missing than watching if you areonly watching fbs and ndsu.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

The NFL is pure, unadulterated garbage nowadays. It's not unwatchable...yet. What is is a horribly watered down shell of what it once was. I used to love the NFL, but it sucks now. It's far too 'commercialized', the commissioner is an asinine, power-hungry moron who doesn't know a damn thing about the game and the style of play is boring. If I want to watch passing on every single play, I will watch Arena football or a Big XII game. The league is way too cookie-cutter for me. Everyone has to play like everyone else. The only real thing that separates anyone from anybody is their QB and head coach. That's it. There's no emphasis on balance, team play, and you can't even be physical on defense because the commissioner is too worried about the league's pocketbook and reputation than its actual product.

I am also sick and tired of talking about QBs all the time. I get it, they're important. Why must we discuss RG3 and Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning ad infinitum?

rkwittem wrote:

clenz wrote:You must have missed the part where I said I go to d3 games in person...if the only d2 in the state of iowa was closer...still only 45 min...and didnt suck something fierce I'd make an effort to get their as well.

Why don't you like the nfl? Clearly the best football there is in america.

The fact is that the fbs isn't what you want to believe it is. There are more fantastic games you are missing than watching if you areonly watching fbs and ndsu.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

The NFL is pure, unadulterated garbage nowadays. It's not unwatchable...yet. What is is a horribly watered down shell of what it once was. I used to love the NFL, but it sucks now. It's far too 'commercialized', the commissioner is an asinine, power-hungry moron who doesn't know a damn thing about the game and the style of play is boring. If I want to watch passing on every single play, I will watch Arena football or a Big XII game. The league is way too cookie-cutter for me. Everyone has to play like everyone else. The only real thing that separates anyone from anybody is their QB and head coach. That's it. There's no emphasis on balance, team play, and you can't even be physical on defense because the commissioner is too worried about the league's pocketbook and reputation than its actual product.

I am also sick and tired of talking about QBs all the time. I get it, they're important. Why must we discuss RG3 and Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning ad infinitum?

Pro style offense is boring...there goes the B1G, SEC (yes you can run a pro style out of a primarily gun formation), and most of the Big East, and a good chunk of the PAC12/ACC....Don't like passing? There goes the B12, the rest of the Big East/ACC/SEC/PAC12 (Minus orgeon).

You're left with about a handful of teams that run a, what I assume you think, is a good mixture of pro run/pass, spread pass, and option.

What's amazing is everything you've said about the NFL fits right into the BCS. All the teams play the same two or three styles of offense, the college game is more commercialized than the NFL (has it's own ESPN station and eats up just as much air time as the NFL), the NCAA infractions committee...only refereed to as "the NCAA" - notice how no one every really actually knows who is in charge of the punishments and enforcement - seems to over step the line most of the time, or go way to soft depending on who is the violator.


I'm sick of hearing about LSU, Bama, Texas, Ohio State, USC, Oregon, Notre Dame, South Carolina, Stanford, Arkansas, TAMU, etc... Why must we talk about them all the time? There are 120 FBS schools - yet count how many different schools are actually talked about during any broadcast...not just "mentioned" but talked about. I'll bet no more than a dozen FBS schools actually get consistently talked about for any length of time right now. I'm sick of hearing about a druggie that won't EVEN BE PLAYING THIS YEAR, yet I'm forced to listen to hours of discussion on him if I want to listen to any sports news.


It's easy to say "I'll watch the FBS over FCS any day of the week" because it's what is forced at you. To actually learn to enjoy the game of football is to be able to watch FCS/D2/D3 and enjoy what you see and know why you enjoy it. Not because ESPN/FSR/BTN/etc... have told you too and why you should.

rkwittem wrote:

clenz wrote:You must have missed the part where I said I go to d3 games in person...if the only d2 in the state of iowa was closer...still only 45 min...and didnt suck something fierce I'd make an effort to get their as well.

Why don't you like the nfl? Clearly the best football there is in america.

The fact is that the fbs isn't what you want to believe it is. There are more fantastic games you are missing than watching if you areonly watching fbs and ndsu.

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The NFL is pure, unadulterated garbage nowadays. It's not unwatchable...yet. What is is a horribly watered down shell of what it once was. I used to love the NFL, but it sucks now. It's far too 'commercialized', the commissioner is an asinine, power-hungry moron who doesn't know a damn thing about the game and the style of play is boring. If I want to watch passing on every single play, I will watch Arena football or a Big XII game. The league is way too cookie-cutter for me. Everyone has to play like everyone else. The only real thing that separates anyone from anybody is their QB and head coach. That's it. There's no emphasis on balance, team play, and you can't even be physical on defense because the commissioner is too worried about the league's pocketbook and reputation than its actual product.

I am also sick and tired of talking about QBs all the time. I get it, they're important. Why must we discuss RG3 and Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning ad infinitum?

Seattle and SF are going against the grain. Both are smash-mouth defense and run-oriented teams.

clenz wrote:Pro style offense is boring...there goes the B1G, SEC (yes you can run a pro style out of a primarily gun formation), and most of the Big East, and a good chunk of the PAC12/ACC....Don't like passing? There goes the B12, the rest of the Big East/ACC/SEC/PAC12 (Minus orgeon).

You're left with about a handful of teams that run a, what I assume you think, is a good mixture of pro run/pass, spread pass, and option.

What's amazing is everything you've said about the NFL fits right into the BCS. All the teams play the same two or three styles of offense, the college game is more commercialized than the NFL (has it's own ESPN station and eats up just as much air time as the NFL), the NCAA infractions committee...only refereed to as "the NCAA" - notice how no one every really actually knows who is in charge of the punishments and enforcement - seems to over step the line most of the time, or go way to soft depending on who is the violator.


I'm sick of hearing about LSU, Bama, Texas, Ohio State, USC, Oregon, Notre Dame, South Carolina, Stanford, Arkansas, TAMU, etc... Why must we talk about them all the time? There are 120 FBS schools - yet count how many different schools are actually talked about during any broadcast...not just "mentioned" but talked about. I'll bet no more than a dozen FBS schools actually get consistently talked about for any length of time right now. I'm sick of hearing about a druggie that won't EVEN BE PLAYING THIS YEAR, yet I'm forced to listen to hours of discussion on him if I want to listen to any sports news.


It's easy to say "I'll watch the FBS over FCS any day of the week" because it's what is forced at you. To actually learn to enjoy the game of football is to be able to watch FCS/D2/D3 and enjoy what you see and know why you enjoy it. Not because ESPN/FSR/BTN/etc... have told you too and why you should.

The Big XII and SEC do not run traditional "pro style" offenses. Oklahoma's hurry-up Air Raid offense is not being run in the NFL, and not especially when they bring in Blake Bell as their running QB. It's more like a cross between New England, the Jets (QB tandem BS), and some of Oklahoma's own innovations they copied or developed from other college teams. The SEC is even less like the NFL. There are, at most, 3 SEC teams running a true NFL-style offense- Georgia, (maybe Arkansas), and Florida (though no one knows what the new offense will look like). The rest of them are far too "run the ball" and "stop the run" oriented to be considered NFL-style. The NFL's plan is to weed the running attack out of the game and get every team playing like the Packers or Patriots and less like the 49ers or Texans.

For me, the key difference between the NFL and college football is the college game's willingness to be innovative and be a trend-setter, not a cookie cutter like every so-called NFL "genius". You want to see coaching genius, watch Nick Saban's 3-4 defense, Mike Leach's Air Raid, Rich Rod/Urban Meyer/Gary Pinkel/Chip Kelly's spread offenses. Hell, most NFL coaches would be dumb enough to think Paul Johnson's triple option was a "new scheme" in the NFL.
A lot of people thought Charlie Weis would be a good college coach because he had great NFL success, but he gets to college and promptly gets out-coached by the likes of Pete Carroll (who had his own unique 4-3 defensive scheme at USC), Mark Dantonio (classic Ohio State-style defense), and...Paul Johnson.
You want innovation, clear schematic differences, variety and options, go to college football. You want the same game with a different score and different names on the jerseys...go to the NFL. Because NO ONE at the NFL level is innovative any more. No one really has been since Bill Walsh, Sid Gillman, or Buddy Ryan, in my opinion. All this and more is why I love college football.

In short, your claim that only "2 or 3" styles of offense are played at the college level is just plain wrong. I can count at least 6 off the top of my head- pro style (USC), smashmouth (Alabama), Air Raid (Washington State), Spread Option (Oregon), true spread (balanced spread) (Ohio State), Run-and-Shoot (SMU), and the Option (Army, Navy, Air Force, GT). That's 7. NFL has two styles, tops. And the college game still lets you play defense.

Styles make fights and the college game blows the NFL out of the water. It's got variety (and by extension, options), innovation/creativity, defense, and a level of passion and atmosphere that few NFL stadiums can match. I went to Lambeau last year- it wasn't bad. But the FargoDome was a lot more exciting to be at during the playoffs than Lambeau was for a regular season game. So what that Green Bay could score a million points on Alabama...their stadium holds 30,000 less people and their fanbase isn't nearly as engaged in their team as Alabama is for the Crimson Tide.

And please, enough with the "woe is me, the only games that are on TV are FBS games" routine. I'm not "forced" to watch them. ESPN doesn't TELL me I have to do anything. I freely choose to and always have. Just as I am free to go to DIII football whenever it suits me and likewise for FCS. The FBS game is what I grew up with and what I love watching. I'm sorry that my fall isn't a struggle like yours to find college football I want to watch.

Is it strange that I agree with CLenz's post about FCS vs. FBS and what it's like to be the 3rd wheel in an FBS state but also agree with RKW's last post about why college football is better than pro football?

Not if you're from Iowa.