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Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:57 pm
by Seahawks
Interesting article in today's Newark Star Ledger by Sid Dorfman:
Hofstra University was not alone earlier this year when it dropped football. After 72 years, the Long Island school shut down the sport, citing cost and lack of interest.
The move, it turned out, became part of a significant national upheaval by small colleges with big budgets. Reportedly, more than 25 colleges throughout the country have ended football programs, including a half-dozen schools alone in California.
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/dorfman ... r_the.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:27 pm
by 93henfan
This country is slowly but surely becoming a nation of soccer and lacrosse fags.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:40 pm
by GannonFan
93henfan wrote:This country is slowly but surely becoming a nation of soccer and lacrosse fags.
Nah, we're just sorting out the chaff from the wheat (farm analogy for the Iowa folks). No sense having all these puny schools playing football. When schools like LaSalle and a bunch of nameless schools in CA drop football, does it really matter? I mean, the article couldn't even bother to name the bunch of nameless schools. It's like the tree falling in the woods - no one was there to see them play, does it matter that they stopped playing?
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:03 pm
by UAalum72
In 1998 there were 673 college football teams, including 112 Div. I-A, 122 I-AA, and 82 in NAIA.
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&yr=1998" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This year there are 720, with 120 in FBS, 124 in FCS, and 90 in NAIA.
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Additionally, in FCS most of the extreme-low-budget MAAC teams have been replaced with new scholarhip schools and the NEC has been increasing scholarhip levels, so you could conclude that the average FCS is stronger than 12 years ago.
There's always a lot of sky-is-falling complaining when a school drops football, but in truth there's continuous turnover. A lot more colleges dropped football after World War II than have recently.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:58 pm
by dbackjon
Two great points, GF and UA.
The teams added have been better supported than the teams dropped.
In addition, schools in the NEC, Big South, GWFC and even some OVC schools have increased schollies.
For example, SUU used to not be a counter for FBS. They are now. NEC has added a boat load of schollies. Not all of the Big South and OVC were using full allotment.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:28 pm
by S F State Gaters
GannonFan wrote:
Nah, we're just sorting out the chaff from the wheat (farm analogy for the Iowa folks). No sense having all these puny schools playing football. When schools like LaSalle and a bunch of nameless schools in CA drop football, does it really matter? I mean, the article couldn't even bother to name the bunch of nameless schools. It's like the tree falling in the woods - no one was there to see them play, does it matter that they stopped playing?
I disagree strongly here. What's happening is that the low-level college football is ceasing to exist. Colleges are businesses and they are losing money with football and they are seeing education change- their 'customers' aren't just 17, 18, and 19 year olds anymore, now older people are going back to school, people are commuting. Colleges aren't traditional anymore.
but the schools aren't nameless. i went to one. schools that loose football teams lose more than football; they loose their identity.
University of California, Santa Barbara (1991)
California State University, Fullerton (1992)
California State University, Long Beach (1991)
California State University, Northridge (2001)
University of the Pacific (1995)
St. Mary's College of California (2003)
Santa Clara University (1992)
California State Polytechnic University, Pomona (Cal Poly Pomona) (1985)
California State University, Hayward (Cal State East Bay) (1993)
California State University, Chico (Chico State) (1996)
San Francisco State University (1994)
Sonoma State University (1997)
all lost their teams. none was nameless. FBS isn't the only kind of football that is played- there has to be room made for FCS, Div-II, Div-III, NAIA teams. They shouldn't just have to fold because they aren't playing in front of 90,000. Football is good and it doesn't have to be big time to be worth something
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:34 pm
by 93henfan
S F State Gaters wrote:schools that loose football teams lose more than football; they loose their identity.
Now don't be sad,
'Cause one out of three ain't bad.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:57 pm
by Big McLargehuge
If my first college lost its football team I'd shrug and say...Lock Haven had a football team?
Most of the programs being lost are ones that just don't make sense in the first place...its different when its at a level like the CAA compared to very tiny regional schools, but most that are losing were schools that had no business having teams in the first place.
Hell, I'd almost be in favor of Lock Haven dropping their team...that money can be better spent a million other places because no one cares about the football team...and the fact they win one game every-other-season or so isn't exactly something that instills pride in the alumni.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:06 pm
by GannonFan
S F State Gaters wrote:GannonFan wrote:
Nah, we're just sorting out the chaff from the wheat (farm analogy for the Iowa folks). No sense having all these puny schools playing football. When schools like LaSalle and a bunch of nameless schools in CA drop football, does it really matter? I mean, the article couldn't even bother to name the bunch of nameless schools. It's like the tree falling in the woods - no one was there to see them play, does it matter that they stopped playing?
I disagree strongly here. What's happening is that the low-level college football is ceasing to exist. Colleges are businesses and they are losing money with football and they are seeing education change- their 'customers' aren't just 17, 18, and 19 year olds anymore, now older people are going back to school, people are commuting. Colleges aren't traditional anymore.
but the schools aren't nameless. i went to one. schools that loose football teams lose more than football; they loose their identity.
University of California, Santa Barbara (1991)
California State University, Fullerton (1992) -
baseball school
California State University, Long Beach (1991)
California State University, Northridge (2001)
University of the Pacific (1995) -
basketball school
St. Mary's College of California (2003) -
basketball school - knocked out nova last year
Santa Clara University (1992) -
basketball school
California State Polytechnic University, Pomona (Cal Poly Pomona) (1985)
rigged the Rose Bowl scoreboard that one year
California State University, Hayward (Cal State East Bay) (1993)
California State University, Chico (Chico State) (1996)
related to that Bail Bonds sponsor in the Bad News Bears
San Francisco State University (1994)
Sonoma State University (1997)
wine country??
all lost their teams. none was nameless. FBS isn't the only kind of football that is played- there has to be room made for FCS, Div-II, Div-III, NAIA teams. They shouldn't just have to fold because they aren't playing in front of 90,000. Football is good and it doesn't have to be big time to be worth something
Nah, they didn't lose their identity, they had different ones (see my edits above for a few). Football isn't the end all be all of life - there are plenty of other sports that can and do help fill that void. Do what you're good at, don't do something you will never be good at. None of those schools had any football identity and they weren't ever going to have one. It's like trying to insist that even paralyzed people should tap dance - I mean, why?
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:14 pm
by SuperHornet
UOP is a no-name school?!?
You're talking about a school that played two bowl games in one season. A school that had an undefeated season against some pretty good competition. A school that was coached by the immortal Amos Alonzo Stagg. A school that has produced football players with Super Bowl rings. A school whose hoops squad did some damage in the NCAAs before bowing out to Wooden's gang. A school whose hoops squad in THIS DECADE has knocked out the likes of Providence and Pitt in the NCAAs.
That's hardly a "no-name" school.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:20 am
by Green Cookie Monster
93henfan wrote:This country is slowly but surely becoming a nation of soccer and lacrosse fags.
That are muslim.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:22 am
by Green Cookie Monster
All of those no-name Cali schools look awful similar to all those no-name schools in Pa. like Shippensburg, Slippery Rock, West Chester, et al.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:43 am
by mebison
Expensive sport...if you've got little to no fan support and the program is costing a fortune, you've either got to step up or get out. In some cases the choice is probably pretty clear.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:45 am
by frinq
Trust the Green Cookie to bring religion into the equation. What you mean is, the US is joining Europe and the world in sports. And you don't like it. Oh, well; you're entitled.
Good point made about schools changing, the "non-traditional" students etc. They're adults now with families, not 18 year old kids, and they watch their budgets. They want education, not sports, and they tell their presidents so.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:50 am
by AZGrizFan
SuperHornet wrote:UOP is a no-name school?!?
You're talking about a school that played two bowl games in one season. A school that had an undefeated season against some pretty good competition. A school that was coached by the immortal Amos Alonzo Stagg. A school that has produced football players with Super Bowl rings. A school whose hoops squad did some damage in the NCAAs before bowing out to Wooden's gang. A school whose hoops squad in THIS DECADE has knocked out the likes of Providence and Pitt in the NCAAs.
That's hardly a "no-name" school.
Who KNEW you knew that much about mens sports?
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:57 am
by 93henfan
SuperHornet wrote:the immortal Amos Alonzo Stagg
That was probably true right up until he died on March 17, 1965.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:17 am
by Herky
SuperHornet wrote:UOP is a no-name school?!?
You're talking about a school that played two bowl games in one season. A school that had an undefeated season against some pretty good competition. A school that was coached by the immortal Amos Alonzo Stagg. A school that has produced football players with Super Bowl rings. A school whose hoops squad did some damage in the NCAAs before bowing out to Wooden's gang. A school whose hoops squad in THIS DECADE has knocked out the likes of Providence and Pitt in the NCAAs.
That's hardly a "no-name" school.
A school that now has a condemned football stadium and will never, ever see football played there again.
No-name *cough* is more of a name than they deserve, the school is in Stockton, California, arguably the worst, most dangerous, most uneducated, dirty cities in North America.
Re: Football a tough call for the small
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:26 pm
by mcveyrl
93henfan wrote:SuperHornet wrote:the immortal Amos Alonzo Stagg
That was probably true right up until he died on March 17, 1965.
This is why I come back to these threads...