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Just in case you forgot how important high school football is in Texas, the residents of Allen will soon have a $59.6 million stadium that will leave no doubt.

Next month in the booming north Dallas suburb, ground will be broken on a state-of-the-art, 18,000-seat facility that will feature two decks, a video scoreboard, four concession stands and 12 restrooms. It is scheduled to open in the fall of 2012.

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1074494

A high school with 5,000 season ticket holders and a 4,000 seat student section. Wow.

It says the high school is 10th through 12th grades and has 3,900 students. Maybe they should have built a new high school instead? By comparison, my HS was four grades and had 950 kids.

Ridiculous amount of money. And yes, another HS would have served the kids better.

Who is to say that they don't already have a nice high school that accommodates their needs? I know nothing of the school, so I don't know what the school is like.

clenz wrote:Who is to say that they don't already have a nice high school that accommodates their needs? I know nothing of the school, so I don't know what the school is like.

If you read the article, it states that they built an obnoxiously big high school within the past decade. I guess to each their own, but I would prefer to split my district into two high schools if I had 1,300 kids in each grade and ~4,000 total.

Think about it. If you were a bright kid at the 90th percentile in your grade, your class rank would be 130th. Talk about getting lost in the shuffle.

93henfan wrote:

clenz wrote:Who is to say that they don't already have a nice high school that accommodates their needs? I know nothing of the school, so I don't know what the school is like.

If you read the article, it states that they built an obnoxiously big high school within the past decade. I guess to each their own, but I would prefer to split my district into two high schools if I had 1,300 kids in each grade and ~4,000 total.

Think about it. If you were a bright kid at the 90th percentile in your grade, your class rank would be 130th. Talk about getting lost in the shuffle.

I'm not saying I don't agree with that logic. I went to a school that was 110 kids 9-12. There is a school district in Iowa that splitting into two high schools instead of pushing the one high school over 2K.

However, if they have the capacity in the school (teachers, room, funding, etc...) to support 4k, then so be it.

Looking at some numbers it's not even the biggest school in the district it plays football in. There are 3 schools in Plano with enrollments of over 3K. I guess the Dallas area just loves large schools.

tampajag wrote:Looking at some numbers it's not even the biggest school in the district it plays football in. There are 3 schools in Plano with enrollments of over 3K. I guess the Dallas area just loves large schools.

The title of this thread rings true. The bad part is, this stadium and the size of the schools will drive other districts to let their schools bet bigger and bigger (within the size classification) so they'll have the same-sized crop of students to pull athletes from. Sounds like it could be a vicious cycle.

600 member band. JFC!

clenz wrote:

93henfan wrote:
If you read the article, it states that they built an obnoxiously big high school within the past decade. I guess to each their own, but I would prefer to split my district into two high schools if I had 1,300 kids in each grade and ~4,000 total.

Think about it. If you were a bright kid at the 90th percentile in your grade, your class rank would be 130th. Talk about getting lost in the shuffle.

I'm not saying I don't agree with that logic. I went to a school that was 110 kids 9-12. There is a school district in Iowa that splitting into two high schools instead of pushing the one high school over 2K.

However, if they have the capacity in the school (teachers, room, funding, etc...) to support 4k, then so be it.

The thing is, eventually somewhere, kids are limited in terms of their access to certain activities because of the size of the school. Whether it be athletics, or clubs, or activities, a school with 1300 kids in each grade is going to be unable to give as much to each kid as a high school with half that number. And often, it's either a decision by the local populace to limit costs (one building is cheaper than two) or more perversely, to increase the athletic success of the school. Right where I live the neighboring school district (North Penn in PA) could've built a second high school (similar size districts right next to them have built up to 3 high schools). However, they decided not to and one of the published reasons was "the increased chance to win state championships". Well, that's something.

GannonFan wrote:

clenz wrote: I'm not saying I don't agree with that logic. I went to a school that was 110 kids 9-12. There is a school district in Iowa that splitting into two high schools instead of pushing the one high school over 2K.

However, if they have the capacity in the school (teachers, room, funding, etc...) to support 4k, then so be it.

The thing is, eventually somewhere, kids are limited in terms of their access to certain activities because of the size of the school. Whether it be athletics, or clubs, or activities, a school with 1300 kids in each grade is going to be unable to give as much to each kid as a high school with half that number. And often, it's either a decision by the local populace to limit costs (one building is cheaper than two) or more perversely, to increase the athletic success of the school. Right where I live the neighboring school district (North Penn in PA) could've built a second high school (similar size districts right next to them have built up to 3 high schools). However, they decided not to and one of the published reasons was "the increased chance to win state championships". Well, that's something.

Again, I agree with you and 93 on this. However, they feel that right now they can accommodate all students. Would I agree with that? Just going off of numbers, no I wouldn't. However, like I've said I went to one of the smallest schools in Iowa. I think we were the 120th smallest school in the state out of about 400 when I was there. I think the biggest schools here in Iowa are about 2000 10-12 with 9th grade in the middle school system.


My view on this isn't complete and I really have no understanding in terms of size of these schools. The largest school in my high school's conference is about 450 kids. We were the smallest of the 11 schools at about 110 and the rest ranged between 175-300 with the biggest school being the outlier. Go figure they also won the conference in almost every sport.

I will preface this by saying that you will find NO bigger sports fan (especially football) than me.

However, being an educator in Texas, this makes me sick. The economy is forcing districts (including the one in which I am fortunate enough to work) to PINK SLIP good teachers (i.e. get rid of them) to save money...meanwhile, we have this BS going on.

I understand the argument that tax payers voted for this etc etc...but to me, that makes this even worse. Their kids' ACADEMIC TEACHERS are being released because of money, but as long as they have this crazy ass stadium WHO CARES!? We'd rather have a stadium than a great english/math/science teacher? No wonder Texas education is lacking.

Here's the math. $50,000/teacher (for math purposes). $60 million for the stadium.

$60 million/$50,000 = 1200 teacher jobs. And I doubt the district has anywhere close to that many teachers TOTAL.

I would be beyond furious if I were one of the teachers that were cut.

Yep it is absolutely disgusting.

SA_Bobcat wrote:I will preface this by saying that you will find NO bigger sports fan (especially football) than me.

However, being an educator in Texas, this makes me sick. The economy is forcing districts (including the one in which I am fortunate enough to work) to PINK SLIP good teachers (i.e. get rid of them) to save money...meanwhile, we have this BS going on.

I understand the argument that tax papers voted for this etc etc...but to me, that makes this even worse. Their kids' ACADEMIC TEACHERS are being released because of money, but as long as they have this crazy ass stadium WHO CARES!? We'd rather have a stadium than a great english/math/science teacher? No wonder Texas education is lacking.

Here's the math. $50,000/teacher (for math purposes). $60 million for the stadium.

$60 million/$50,000 = 1200 teacher jobs. And I doubt the district has anywhere close to that many teachers TOTAL.

I would be beyond furious if I were one of the teachers that were cut.

What would be the ongoing costs of those additional teachers? The Salary, Healthcare, Training, Pension, Vacation, new schools and Administrators to support them and so on would be greater than $60 million in the short and long terms. Compare that to the cost and upkeep of the stadium versus revenue generated from tickets and concessions in your calculations over the long-term.

States and school districts have their own needs, wants, and priorities. If they think a new stadium is the best way to spend their own tax dollars that's fine. The key here is their own tax dollars. I don't pretend to understand their reasons but more teachers aren't always the answer to "education" problems either. Besides everybody is pissed when they get the pink slip no matter the circumstances.

If the community of Allen thinks this is the best way to spend the money, it's their prerogative to do so. From the story:

The stadium was part of a larger $120 million bond package passed in May 2009 that included nearly as much money for a state-of-the-art auditorium for performing arts;

The town approved a bond package of $219 million in November 2008 that called for the building of two new elementary schools, the purchase of 45 school buses and improvements to many of the other elementary and middle schools in the district;

The money for the project could only be used on capital expenses not general education;

This seems like a bond package that addresses the specific needs for the town. And in the long run, if Allen High School does really draw this many people to football games, they'll make money off this stadium. Also wanted to mention something I feel is critical for the need for the stadium:

He points out that the town has only one high school - and that the stadium will be used for more than just football.

"This facility will be used by the entire community," he said.

clenz wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
The thing is, eventually somewhere, kids are limited in terms of their access to certain activities because of the size of the school. Whether it be athletics, or clubs, or activities, a school with 1300 kids in each grade is going to be unable to give as much to each kid as a high school with half that number. And often, it's either a decision by the local populace to limit costs (one building is cheaper than two) or more perversely, to increase the athletic success of the school. Right where I live the neighboring school district (North Penn in PA) could've built a second high school (similar size districts right next to them have built up to 3 high schools). However, they decided not to and one of the published reasons was "the increased chance to win state championships". Well, that's something.

Again, I agree with you and 93 on this. However, they feel that right now they can accommodate all students. Would I agree with that? Just going off of numbers, no I wouldn't. However, like I've said I went to one of the smallest schools in Iowa. I think we were the 120th smallest school in the state out of about 400 when I was there. I think the biggest schools here in Iowa are about 2000 10-12 with 9th grade in the middle school system.


My view on this isn't complete and I really have no understanding in terms of size of these schools. The largest school in my high school's conference is about 450 kids. We were the smallest of the 11 schools at about 110 and the rest ranged between 175-300 with the biggest school being the outlier. Go figure they also won the conference in almost every sport.

Clenzie...love to see you giving a good, conscious, get all the facts type of a look at things in advance of the opinion.

octiparan wrote:

SA_Bobcat wrote:I will preface this by saying that you will find NO bigger sports fan (especially football) than me.

However, being an educator in Texas, this makes me sick. The economy is forcing districts (including the one in which I am fortunate enough to work) to PINK SLIP good teachers (i.e. get rid of them) to save money...meanwhile, we have this BS going on.

I understand the argument that tax papers voted for this etc etc...but to me, that makes this even worse. Their kids' ACADEMIC TEACHERS are being released because of money, but as long as they have this crazy ass stadium WHO CARES!? We'd rather have a stadium than a great english/math/science teacher? No wonder Texas education is lacking.

Here's the math. $50,000/teacher (for math purposes). $60 million for the stadium.

$60 million/$50,000 = 1200 teacher jobs. And I doubt the district has anywhere close to that many teachers TOTAL.

I would be beyond furious if I were one of the teachers that were cut.

What would be the ongoing costs of those additional teachers? The Salary, Healthcare, Training, Pension, Vacation, new schools and Administrators to support them and so on would be greater than $60 million in the short and long terms. Compare that to the cost and upkeep of the stadium versus revenue generated from tickets and concessions in your calculations over the long-term.

States and school districts have their own needs, wants, and priorities. If they think a new stadium is the best way to spend their own tax dollars that's fine. The key here is their own tax dollars. I don't pretend to understand their reasons but more teachers aren't always the answer to "education" problems either. Besides everybody is pissed when they get the pink slip no matter the circumstances.

Some good points here Octopi. Welcome to the board.

octiparan wrote:

SA_Bobcat wrote:I will preface this by saying that you will find NO bigger sports fan (especially football) than me.

However, being an educator in Texas, this makes me sick. The economy is forcing districts (including the one in which I am fortunate enough to work) to PINK SLIP good teachers (i.e. get rid of them) to save money...meanwhile, we have this BS going on.

I understand the argument that tax papers voted for this etc etc...but to me, that makes this even worse. Their kids' ACADEMIC TEACHERS are being released because of money, but as long as they have this crazy ass stadium WHO CARES!? We'd rather have a stadium than a great english/math/science teacher? No wonder Texas education is lacking.

Here's the math. $50,000/teacher (for math purposes). $60 million for the stadium.

$60 million/$50,000 = 1200 teacher jobs. And I doubt the district has anywhere close to that many teachers TOTAL.

I would be beyond furious if I were one of the teachers that were cut.

What would be the ongoing costs of those additional teachers? The Salary, Healthcare, Training, Pension, Vacation, new schools and Administrators to support them and so on would be greater than $60 million in the short and long terms. Compare that to the cost and upkeep of the stadium versus revenue generated from tickets and concessions in your calculations over the long-term.

States and school districts have their own needs, wants, and priorities. If they think a new stadium is the best way to spend their own tax dollars that's fine. The key here is their own tax dollars. I don't pretend to understand their reasons but more teachers aren't always the answer to "education" problems either. Besides everybody is pissed when they get the pink slip no matter the circumstances.

What's even more freaky is this is 4 times more money on a high school stadium than we spent investigating 9/11.

Ever get the feeling they don't split up a lot of these mega-huge schools for no reason other than they don't want to dilute the talent of the football team?

Whatever happened to Permian High School in Odessa? Are they still a viable program?

Their football program use to be the one to beat in Texas high school football, but I don't hear that much about them anymore.

Grizo406 wrote:Whatever happened to Permian High School in Odessa? Are they still a viable program?

Their football program use to be the one to beat in Texas high school football, but I don't hear that much about them anymore.

it would be really cool if you had Google Grizo but since you don't I'll help ya out.

http://www.mojoland.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know high school football is big down here but that is a little ridiculous. No high school needs a stadium like that. Hell SFA doesn't have a stadium like that. We couldn't even get 20 million to build a new baseball/softball complex.

Pics:
http://www.allenisd.org/200610610155831 ... Update.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For a HS,

sfajack05 wrote:I know high school football is big down here but that is a little ridiculous. No high school needs a stadium like that. Hell SFA doesn't have a stadium like that. We couldn't even get 20 million to build a new baseball/softball complex.

How do you know that it is ridiculous for them? I mean if they can fill it and maximize revenue and on top of that have an asset to their community then why shouldn't they do it? It would appear that they may have more knowledge on this subject than any of us do.

Hey, if having the NC in Frisco doesn't work out, they can just move it on down the road to Allen .

Grizo406 wrote:Whatever happened to Permian High School in Odessa? Are they still a viable program?

Their football program use to be the one to beat in Texas high school football, but I don't hear that much about them anymore.

The Permian Panthers are not the team of old. They havent won a title in nearly 20 years, and dont dominate like they used too.

They are however still the hottest ticket in town.

If everything is bigger in Texas, it staggers the mind what the perception of Iowa is down there.