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Since stats can only take you so far in seeing the power of a teams offense/defense. I figured I would post the rankings of each playoff team's offense/defense according to the power system by Ken Massey.


1. Montana - O: 7 D: 11
2. Villanova - O: 4 D: 2
3. SIU - O: 2 D: 10
4. Richmond - O: 5 D: 7

SDSU - O: 33 D: 4
Holy Cross - O:26 D: 59
EIU - O: 60 D: 27
Elon - O: 16 D: 5



McNeese - O: 12 D:58
UNH - O: 8 D: 23

W&M - O: 21 D: 1
Weber - O: 13 D: 13

App State - O: 1 D: 19
SCSU - O:28 D:32

EWU - O: 3 D: 29
SFA - O: 30 D: 36




Now I take computer rankings with a grain of salt, but to me this is more an indication than ppg/total offense when two teams don't play against the same competition.





edit: i stopped at 12 teams

wideright82 wrote:Since stats can only take you so far in seeing the power of a teams offense/defense. I figured I would post the rankings of each playoff team's offense/defense according to the power system by Ken Massey.


1. Montana - O: 7 D: 11
2. Villanova - O: 4 D: 2
3. SIU - O: 2 D: 10
4. Richmond - O: 5 D: 7

SDSU - O: 33 D: 4
Holy Cross - O:26 D: 59
EIU - O: 60 D: 27
Elon - O: 16 D: 5



McNeese - O: 12 D:58
UNH - O: 8 D: 23

W&M - O: 21 D: 1
Weber - O: 13 D: 13

App State - O: 1 D: 19
SCSU - O:28 D:32

EWU - O: 3 D: 29
SFA - O: 30 D: 36


Now I take computer rankings with a grain of salt, but to me this is more an indication than ppg/total offense when two teams don't play against the same competition.


edit: i stopped at 12 teams

I agree. Nice post. Massey's site is useful and interesting.

However, the numbers you posted above, WR, appear to contradict the smack you have written in other threads.

So acording to the all knowing Massey, Villanova has a better offense then the Grizzlies and Weber st.

Now that is fahqing rich!

To me the comparisson is simple the Big Sky is the PAC 10 of FCS (high potent offenses, not as strong top to bottom on defense except maybe the top 2 teams)

The CAA is the SEC (very strong defenses top to bottom but only a couple of teams have potent offenses)

GRIZ MOBSTER wrote:So acording to the all knowing Massey, Villanova has a better offense then the Grizzlies and Weber st.

Now that is fahqing rich!

To me the comparisson is simple the Big Sky is the PAC 10 of FCS (high potent offenses, not as strong top to bottom on defense except maybe the top 2 teams)

The CAA is the SEC (very strong defenses top to bottom but only a couple of teams have potent offenses)

the griz and weber are better on offense than Villanova for what reason exactly?

native wrote:

wideright82 wrote:Since stats can only take you so far in seeing the power of a teams offense/defense. I figured I would post the rankings of each playoff team's offense/defense according to the power system by Ken Massey.


1. Montana - O: 7 D: 11
2. Villanova - O: 4 D: 2
3. SIU - O: 2 D: 10
4. Richmond - O: 5 D: 7

SDSU - O: 33 D: 4
Holy Cross - O:26 D: 59
EIU - O: 60 D: 27
Elon - O: 16 D: 5



McNeese - O: 12 D:58
UNH - O: 8 D: 23

W&M - O: 21 D: 1
Weber - O: 13 D: 13

App State - O: 1 D: 19
SCSU - O:28 D:32

EWU - O: 3 D: 29
SFA - O: 30 D: 36


Now I take computer rankings with a grain of salt, but to me this is more an indication than ppg/total offense when two teams don't play against the same competition.


edit: i stopped at 12 teams

I agree. Nice post. Massey's site is useful and interesting.

However, the numbers you posted above, WR, appear to contradict the smack you have written in other threads.

Please quote me. I don't know what kind of rubbish I've said in the last few days.

wideright82 wrote:

GRIZ MOBSTER wrote:So acording to the all knowing Massey, Villanova has a better offense then the Grizzlies and Weber st.

Now that is fahqing rich!

To me the comparisson is simple the Big Sky is the PAC 10 of FCS (high potent offenses, not as strong top to bottom on defense except maybe the top 2 teams)

The CAA is the SEC (very strong defenses top to bottom but only a couple of teams have potent offenses)

the griz and weber are better on offense than Villanova for what reason exactly?

Not reason, but Reasons!
I will go slow so you can understand.

Total Offense: UM #9- 431 ypg
WSU #13- 419 ypg
Vill #32- 372 ypg

Scoring Offense: UM #8- 34.55 pg
Vill #20- 31.82 pg
WSU #25- 30.73 pg

Are u with me so far?

But these numbers won't tell you everything. The Griz and Weebs are much more balanced on offense and can beat you mulitiple ways. Vill is weak in the passing game (#100 in the country)and does not posses the same skill that UM (#15) and Weebs (#6) has to come back in a game when throwing the ball is vital. Thus if Vill falls behind by a couple of scores late, they will probably lose. However Weebs, and the Griz have the ability to make the plays in the passing game to make a comeback if needed.

I can't argue with the defensive rankings but I will say that if Villanova played in the pass happy Big Sky they would have given up more yards. It's impossible not to give up more yards when teams throw for 40+ times a game especially if they fall far behind. Here is six games that the Griz played and the amount of passing attempts by the opponent; 67, 52, 50, 49, 46, and 44.

GRIZ MOBSTER wrote:

wideright82 wrote:

the griz and weber are better on offense than Villanova for what reason exactly?

Not reason, but Reasons!
I will go slow so you can understand.

Total Offense: UM #9- 431 ypg
WSU #13- 419 ypg
Vill #32- 372 ypg

Scoring Offense: UM #8- 34.55 pg
Vill #20- 31.82 pg
WSU #25- 30.73 pg

Are u with me so far?

But these numbers won't tell you everything. The Griz and Weebs are much more balanced on offense and can beat you mulitiple ways. Vill is weak in the passing game (#100 in the country)and does not posses the same skill that UM (#15) and Weebs (#6) has to come back in a game when throwing the ball is vital. Thus if Vill falls behind by a couple of scores late, they will probably lose. However Weebs, and the Griz have the ability to make the plays in the passing game to make a comeback if needed.

I can't argue with the defensive rankings but I will say that if Villanova played in the pass happy Big Sky they would have given up more yards. It's impossible not to give up more yards when teams throw for 40+ times a game especially if they fall far behind. Here is six games that the Griz played and the amount of passing attempts by the opponent; 67, 52, 50, 49, 46, and 44.

OHHHHHHHHHHH NOW I see your point. Offense is nothing but passing. Gotcha. So explain to me why a team like Delaware threw for 407 yards against us and squeaked out 12 points?

Explain to me why a team would pass (Villanova) when it averages 220 yards/game of rushing?

Why would a team like Villanova give two fucks about their ppg when they are consistenly up 20 at half time?

Your statistics are great and all, but you didn't tell me why Montana and Weber are better. You told me why they are more exciting. See W&M stats against us. They racked up the yards pretty nicely. Did you happen to see the score? Couldn't get into the endzone.


Save me the homer opinions. I'm not even saying Villanova is better, just equal. Your clear bias makes the jokes I make about Weber and McNeese look like I'm serious, which is about how realistic your claim of the vastly superior BSC offenses.



How did Montana's high powered offense do against Richmond last year? Villanova put up 26 on em. Seems to me our offense this year isn't too much different than last years. Well, except that they are better.

I saw who won offensive player of the year in your conference, he might not even make honorable metion in ours!

And by the way are you saying that if you needed to pass to win the game i.e being down by two scores late or a final long drive to win that you would rather have Vill's passing offense over UM, WSU, or EWU? That's a joke and u know it. Just wait until it happens and then you will understand that it's nice to be good as passing when needed.

And in response to the Richmond game. They beat us soundly however our QB did get hurt which didn't help, but Sidbury killed us. But hey at least we made it to the NC game where was Villanova at? How many Div 1 titles has Villanova won in the last 30 years? Thats's what I thought. But at least you guys have made it to the title game, right? No. Yeah keep talking because this year history will repeat itself, because you will not win the title, but for that matter I don't think we will either.

Oh and passing is not all that matters if you could actually understand my original post. Balanced offense is what matters and the Griz and Weber are just as good running the ball as Nova they just don't attempt it as much so they don't have as many yards on the ground. But Smith and Reynolds are as good as anybody in the country. Not to mention Tawain from EWU.

GRIZ MOBSTER wrote:I saw who won offensive player of the year in your conference, he might not even make honorable metion in ours!

Your ignorance is cute. Keep it up.

GRIZ MOBSTER wrote: And by the way are you saying that if you needed to pass to win the game i.e being down by two scores late or a final long drive to win that you would rather have Vill's passing offense over UM, WSU, or EWU? That's a joke and u know it. Just wait until it happens and then you will understand that it's nice to be good as passing when needed.

Go check out what happened when we needed to pass the ball. See CAA Offensive Player of the week, around........ Nov 7th.


Villanova had 79 yards rushing
and wait for it......


282 Yards of Passing Offense
62.8% Completion
12.8 yds/completion
3 TDs

What IIIIIIIII meant, is that we don't need to pass. Mainly because we kick so much ass while #17 and #4 are making defenders look ridiculous. As for your question, can we come back from being behind 2 scores by passing? Can't answer that question because I don't recall that happening to us. I would however take OUR offense when were down over yours, yes. Not just the passing aspect, because that is a stupid comparison, but the whole offense? Yes. Ours is superior in my eyes.

GRIZ MOBSTER wrote:And in response to the Richmond game. They beat us soundly however our QB did get hurt which didn't help, but Sidbury killed us. But hey at least we made it to the NC game where was Villanova at? How many Div 1 titles has Villanova won in the last 30 years? Thats's what I thought. But at least you guys have made it to the title game, right? No. Yeah keep talking because this year history will repeat itself, because you will not win the title, but for that matter I don't think we will either.

Exactly RIGHT!!! You didn't even score until the fourth quarter. Very good point.




and just a little tidbit about a certain player you mocked before.


There is only ONE player in ALL OF FOOTBALL that has a receiving, passing, rushing, and kr for a touchdown......




... his name is Matt Szczur

wideright82 wrote:

GRIZ MOBSTER wrote:
Not reason, but Reasons!
I will go slow so you can understand.

Total Offense: UM #9- 431 ypg
WSU #13- 419 ypg
Vill #32- 372 ypg

Scoring Offense: UM #8- 34.55 pg
Vill #20- 31.82 pg
WSU #25- 30.73 pg

Are u with me so far?

But these numbers won't tell you everything. The Griz and Weebs are much more balanced on offense and can beat you mulitiple ways. Vill is weak in the passing game (#100 in the country)and does not posses the same skill that UM (#15) and Weebs (#6) has to come back in a game when throwing the ball is vital. Thus if Vill falls behind by a couple of scores late, they will probably lose. However Weebs, and the Griz have the ability to make the plays in the passing game to make a comeback if needed.

I can't argue with the defensive rankings but I will say that if Villanova played in the pass happy Big Sky they would have given up more yards. It's impossible not to give up more yards when teams throw for 40+ times a game especially if they fall far behind. Here is six games that the Griz played and the amount of passing attempts by the opponent; 67, 52, 50, 49, 46, and 44.

OHHHHHHHHHHH NOW I see your point. Offense is nothing but passing. Gotcha. So explain to me why a team like Delaware threw for 407 yards against us and squeaked out 12 points?

Explain to me why a team would pass (Villanova) when it averages 220 yards/game of rushing?

Why would a team like Villanova give two **** about their ppg when they are consistenly up 20 at half time?

Your statistics are great and all, but you didn't tell me why Montana and Weber are better. You told me why they are more exciting. See W&M stats against us. They racked up the yards pretty nicely. Did you happen to see the score? Couldn't get into the endzone.


Save me the homer opinions. I'm not even saying Villanova is better, just equal. Your clear bias makes the jokes I make about Weber and McNeese look like I'm serious, which is about how realistic your claim of the vastly superior BSC offenses.



How did Montana's high powered offense do against Richmond last year? Villanova put up 26 on em. Seems to me our offense this year isn't too much different than last years. Well, except that they are better.

Obviously Villanova has the better offense between the 3 teams
And no, passing is not the only thing
if you could rush for 220 yards a game, wouldnt you run it all the time too

no matter what the stats say, Nova is just better

Villanova had 79 yards rushing
and wait for it......


282 Yards of Passing Offense
62.8% Completion
12.8 yds/completion
3 TDs[/quote]


Wide Right, you make some real valid points, but this one is a little lacking. A good passing day for you, is below average for even the cellar dwellers of the Big Sky: Here are the ypg averages through 11 games:

1. Eastern Washington 450.1
2. Northern Arizona 439.5
3. Montana 11 431.7
4. Weber State 11 419.8
5. Montana State 11 361.6
6. Portland State 11 355.2
7. Sacramento State 350.0
8. Northern Colorado 336.0
9. Idaho State 11 240.9

Villanova rushes a lot more, and has a very potent but in a pass happy offense conference like the BSC, the rushing numbers for the playoff teams are nothing to sneeze at:

Here are the rushing ypg through 11 games:

1. Montana 173.5
2. Montana State 147.2
3. Eastern Washington 141.5
4. Northern Arizona 130.9
5. Weber State 126.4
6. Sacramento State 121.9
7. Northern Colorado 108.2
8. Portland State 107.6
9. Idaho State 42.9

I would say that as far as Montana goes, Montana obviously has a better offense than Villanova, Villanova obviously has a better defense. It would just be a matter of A great offense Vs. A great defense and a pretty good offense vs. a pretty good defense. The latter of which would decide the game most likely. Maybe we will get to find out.

*Also, Matt Szczur is a total badass. I agree with you on that. I heard he is going to forgo football for baseball. Thats pretty cool, there aren't many collegiate two sport athletes anymore.

SpiderFan5 wrote:no matter what the stats say, Nova is just better

Well, stats don't lie, and are truly unbiased. So it does matter what the stats say when comparing two teams who don't play each other, and don't have any common opponents. Math....its the perfect science.

*

one more thing I found funny. You said something about not rushing the ball as many times as we did.


Montana Attempts: 454 avg 4.2/rush

Villanova Attempts: 482 avg 5.1/rush





Montana Attempts: 341 61.5% 8.3/pass 13.5/catch

Villanova Attempts: 232 64.2% 7.1 / pass 11.1/catch




Fail to see what makes Montana's offense better still.

GrizMonster wrote:

SpiderFan5 wrote:no matter what the stats say, Nova is just better

Well, stats don't lie, and are truly unbiased. So it does matter what the stats say when comparing two teams who don't play each other, and don't have any common opponents. Math....its the perfect science.

see Math above




They are biased towards defenses played against you simpleton

wideright82 wrote:

GrizMonster wrote:

Well, stats don't lie, and are truly unbiased. So it does matter what the stats say when comparing two teams who don't play each other, and don't have any common opponents. Math....its the perfect science.

see Math above




They are biased towards defenses played against you simpleton

as are defensive stats that are racked up against mediocre to bad offenses.

GrizMonster wrote:

wideright82 wrote:

see Math above




They are biased towards defenses played against you simpleton

as are defensive stats that are racked up against mediocre to bad offenses.

I never said they weren't. Nice point though.

wideright82 wrote:one more thing I found funny. You said something about not rushing the ball as many times as we did.


Montana Attempts: 454 avg 4.2/rush

Villanova Attempts: 482 avg 5.1/rush





Montana Attempts: 341 61.5% 8.3/pass 13.5/catch

Villanova Attempts: 232 64.2% 7.1 / pass 11.1/catch




Fail to see what makes Montana's offense better still.

The rushing stats are pretty close, you get the edge in attempts and almost one more yard per attempt. But, you have over a hundred less passing attempts, and over a yard less per catch, and less YAC. As well we have run about 80 more offensive plays. Our offense is much more prolific than yours...again..math.

GrizMonster wrote:

wideright82 wrote:one more thing I found funny. You said something about not rushing the ball as many times as we did.


Montana Attempts: 454 avg 4.2/rush

Villanova Attempts: 482 avg 5.1/rush





Montana Attempts: 341 61.5% 8.3/pass 13.5/catch

Villanova Attempts: 232 64.2% 7.1 / pass 11.1/catch




Fail to see what makes Montana's offense better still.

The rushing stats are pretty close, you get the edge in attempts and almost one more yard per attempt. But, you have over a hundred less passing attempts, and over a yard less per catch, and less YAC. As well we have run about 80 more offensive plays. Our offense is much more prolific than yours...again..math.

Wait a second. Did you just make the argument that because you run more plays, your offense is better?


in the same exact paragraph that you discounted a 1 yard difference in running (note that is the difference between a first down every 2 plays and 3rd down..... or wait for it.... a pass ) yet say, one team is superior for averaging one more yard per catch when both teams average over a first down every catch?





Also that's yards per passing play. As in "for every attempted pass".


AND



Yards per catch. As in "for every completed pass"


NOT yards after catch is made.... sorry for the confusion

Jesus H titty fucking christ, Saturday can't come soon enough.

Grizalltheway wrote:Jesus H titty fucking christ, Saturday can't come soon enough.

I agree, dude.

By the way. I have officially declared myself the winner of this thread.

























CHALK

wideright82 wrote:By the way. I have officially declared myself the winner of this thread.




CHALK

Congrats on your special olympics medal, we're all very proud of you, man.

[quote="wideright82"][quote="GrizMonster"][quote="wideright82"]one more thing I found funny. You said something about not rushing the ball as many times as we did.


Montana Attempts: 454 avg 4.2/rush

Villanova Attempts: 482 avg 5.1/rush





Montana Attempts: 341 61.5% 8.3/pass 13.5/catch

Villanova Attempts: 232 64.2% 7.1 / pass 11.1/catch



I don't think its an unreasonable assumption, that if you run more plays, thereby leaving the other defense on the field. More plays = Better at moving the ball. Its a perfect cause effect relationship. you get more first downs, you gain more yards..and score more points....on and on and on. I don't understand how this isn't a good measure of offensive prowess?

Here...lets look at this:

TOTAL OFFENSE

Rank Team G Pl Yds Avg TD Ydspg
1. Fordham 11 852 5377 6.31 44 488.82
2. Appalachian St. 11 781 5268 6.75 49 478.91
3. Stephen F. Austin 11 823 5253 6.38 51 477.55
4. Eastern Wash. 11 749 4951 6.61 52 450.09
5. McNeese St. 11 729 4873 6.68 56 443.00
6. Northern Ariz. 11 780 4834 6.20 39 439.45
7. Holy Cross 11 744 4810 6.47 48 437.27
8. Elon 11 820 4763 5.81 44 433.00
9. Montana 11 795 4749 5.97 49 431.73
10. Jacksonville St. 11 734 4742 6.46 53 431.09
11. Colgate 11 836 4701 5.62 48 427.36
12. Texas St. 11 768 4644 6.05 48 422.18
13. Weber St. 11 791 4618 5.84 43 419.82
14. UNI 11 719 4590 6.38 46 417.27
15. Southern Ill. 11 703 4557 6.48 49 414.27
16. Tenn.-Martin 11 805 4503 5.59 42 409.36
17. Lafayette 11 732 4476 6.11 42 406.91
18. Southern Utah 11 794 4452 5.61 46 404.73
19. North Dakota St. 11 691 4401 6.37 43 400.09
20. Old Dominion 11 737 4390 5.96 52 399.09
21. Brown 10 734 3966 5.40 33 396.60
22. Butler 11 749 4312 5.76 42 392.00
23. Southern U. 9 594 3516 5.92 43 390.67
24. Southeastern La. 11 786 4274 5.44 43 388.55
25. Central Conn. St. 11 753 4268 5.67 38 388.00
26. Jacksonville 11 693 4171 6.02 49 379.18
27. Liberty 11 695 4165 5.99 48 378.64
28. South Carolina St. 11 720 4162 5.78 45 378.36
29. Massachusetts 11 769 4154 5.40 33 377.64
30. Gardner-Webb 11 761 4133 5.43 38 375.73
31. Dayton 11 775 4109 5.30 35 373.55
32. Villanova 11 714 4100 5.74 46 372.73


SCORING OFFENSE

Rank Team G Pts Avg TD Kxp Oxp FG Sf
1. Stephen F. Austin 11 409 37.18 51 46 0 17 3
2. McNeese St. 11 407 37.00 56 45 3 6 1
3. Liberty 11 400 36.36 48 46 0 22 0
4. Appalachian St. 11 393 35.73 49 49 0 16 1
5. Southern Ill. 11 391 35.55 49 47 0 16 1
6. Jacksonville St. 11 385 35.00 53 46 0 7 0
6. Old Dominion 11 385 35.00 52 50 1 7 0
8. Montana 11 380 34.55 49 45 2 11 2
9. Eastern Wash. 11 371 33.73 52 47 0 4 0
10. Grambling 10 337 33.70 41 32 2 17 2
11. UNI 11 367 33.36 46 46 0 15 0
12. Southern Utah 11 366 33.27 46 43 1 15 0
13. Southern U. 9 297 33.00 43 32 1 1 1
14. Holy Cross 11 358 32.55 48 46 0 8 0
14. New Hampshire 11 358 32.55 43 38 1 18 3
16. Elon 11 352 32.00 44 41 0 15 1
16. South Carolina St. 11 352 32.00 45 44 0 12 1
18. Jacksonville 11 351 31.91 49 41 2 4 0
18. Texas St. 11 351 31.91 48 42 0 7 0
20. Villanova 11 350 31.82 46 45 1 9 0

Pass Efficiency Offense

Rank Team G Att Com Pct Int Yds YdsAtt TD Rating
1. Eastern Wash. 11 393 261 66.41 5 3394 8.64 30 161.59
2. Lafayette 11 345 235 68.12 13 3049 8.84 28 161.58
3. Jacksonville St. 11 299 177 59.20 4 2665 8.91 27 161.19
4. Prairie View 9 238 160 67.23 6 1929 8.11 21 159.36
5. Stephen F. Austin 11 500 340 68.00 14 3807 7.61 40 152.76
6. Montana 11 341 210 61.58 7 2840 8.33 26 152.61
7. Appalachian St. 11 313 216 69.01 5 2834 9.05 10 152.40
8. Southern U. 9 283 178 62.90 8 2332 8.24 22 152.12
9. McNeese St. 11 295 192 65.08 6 2413 8.18 20 152.11
10. Colgate 11 230 135 58.70 5 1952 8.49 18 151.47
11. Jacksonville 11 338 188 55.62 8 2772 8.20 32 151.00
12. Fordham 11 443 284 64.11 10 3708 8.37 26 149.26
13. Villanova 11 232 149 64.22 4 1656 7.14 20 149.16


Is there another metric you want to use?

I see u choose to ignore the question about how many titles games your team has been in. Or the fact that we did make the title game last year, and supposedly had no chance to beat JMU because they had beat u.

Regardless of your stupid reasons we avg more points per game then u do, so your offense is not better end of story, you lose dumbass.