P5 conference realignment.

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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:54 am
BDKJMU wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:28 pm
Well if FSU amd Clempson bolt for the SEC, what does the ACC do then?
I think they look at schools like South Florida, SMU and Memphis before they look at Sun Belt schools.
I get USF and Memphis, but if they’re going to reach that far for SMU, a small private who would be a geographic misfit from the 4th largest population metro area who would be tied with Wake Forest for the smallest ACC stadium at 32k, why not Rice then? Another small private who would be a geographic misfit from the 5th largest population metro area who at least has a 47k/expandable to 59k (wiki) stadium who would even ne a better academic fit for the ACC..
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by BDKJMU »

For football the travel is no big deal. 5-6 games and they can charter, doesn’t matter if going from Eugene to State College, its non stop. Yeah a 6 hr flight is longer than 2, but for the most part its not a huge deal. Its their Oly sport brethern that have 2x-3x the travel time for away game times 2x3 times the # of away games, including weekdays, that are going to be hammered by this. But $$$ (football and to a lesser extent mens’ b-ball) drive the bus..

11 of 18 soon to be Big 10 teams teams with an hr of major city and/or hub airport. For the other 7 who are flying commericial (ie everyone but football?), some will be able to go non stop for some games/1 stop for others. Majority of Olypic sports teams will go 1 stop fo a majority of away games.. Some cases some oly sports teams in small cities for some of their away games will have to take 3 flights each way, spending 2 full days traveling, being gone for 3-4 days, something they wouldn’t have had to do before for a conference game. For example I just did a search for roundtrip flights from Eugene, OR to State College, PA using a couple of random Fridays in Oct. Everything was at least 3 legs. MINIMUM travel times were about 11 hrs each direction, and some of those had tight connections, like 38 min. And you travel with the 3 legs, your odds of delays and mis connects goes up exponentially. And the travel times just went up from there (cheapest tickets were 18+ and 21+ hr travel times each way). Course that doesn’t include bus ride to airport, getting there couple hrs early, and getting out of aiport with checked gear & bus ride from airport to hotel on back end, and then in reverse the other way. For some of these schools its going to be an $$$ travel nightmare..Most important person in the Athletic Dept might be whoever schedules travel for the Oly sport teams..
Last edited by BDKJMU on Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by SuperHornet »

BDKJMU wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:56 am One crazy rumor I've heard is Cal & Stanford to the ACC... :suspicious:

But then you could no longer call it the ATLANTIC Coast Conference.

‘Bicoastal’ means both coasts..
You have transatlantic flights crossing the Atlantic & transcontinental flights crossing the continental US.

So if you had a ‘_______ Coast Conference’ on both coasts, it would have to be one of the below:
-The ‘BiCoastal Conference’ (BC or BCC).
-The ‘TransCoastal Conference’ (TC or TCC).
-The ‘Atlantic Pacific Coast Conference’ (APCC) (Pacific-Atlantic Coast Conferece (PACC) wouldn’t work with a PAC-___# conference)..
I've heard both ACC and the AAC making a push for Cal and Stanford.

There's precedent for keeping the anomalous conference name. The East Coast Hockey League at one time had teams all the way to Stockton, CA (where UOP is) until a major shift sent Stockton's team to NY and brought an AHL team to Stockton. The point was to bring lots of minor league teams closer to their NHL affiliates. That AHL team moved to Calgary this past season. Last I heard, though, the ECHL still had a team in Utah.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 7:46 pm For football the travel is no big deal. 5-6 games and they can charter, doesn’t matter if going from Eugene to State College, its non stop. Yeah a 6 hr flight is longer than 2, but for the most part its not a huge deal. Its their Oly sport brethern that have 2x-3x the travel time for away game times 2x3 times the # of away games, including weekdays, that are going to be hammered by this. But $$$ (football and to a lesser extent mens’ b-ball) drive the bus..

Most of the Big 10 teams arent’t in or near major cities with hub airports. Might be miscounting, but even with the LA and Seattle additions, only counting 5 of 18. For most of the teams who are flying commericial (ie everyone but football?), some will be able to go non stop for some games/1 stop for others. Majority of Olypic sports teams will go 1 stop fo a majority of away games.. Some cases some oly sports teams in small cities for some of their away games will have to take 3 flights each way, spending 2 full days traveling, being gone for 3-4 days, something they wouldn’t have had to do before for a conference game. For example I just did a search for roundtrip flights from Eugene, OR to State College, PA using a couple of random Fridays in Oct. Everything was at least 3 legs. MINIMUM travel times were about 11 hrs each direction, and some of those had tight connections, like 38 min. And you travel with the 3 legs, your odds of delays and mis connects goes up exponentially. And the travel times just went up from there (cheapest tickets were 18+ and 21+ hr travel times each way). Course that doesn’t include bus ride to airport, getting there couple hrs early, and getting out of aiport with checked gear & bus ride from airport to hotel on back end, and then in reverse the other way. For some of these schools its going to be an $$$ travel nightmare..Most important person in the Athletic Dept might be whoever schedules travel for the Oly sport teams..
I don't disagree with your overall point (this is going to be a PITA for the Olympic sports and hurts student athletes) but what are your 5? How are you defining near and hub?

I have 8:
- Maryland
- Michigan
- Minnesota
- Northwestern
- Rutgers
- USC
- UCLA
- Washington
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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UNI88 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:29 am
BDKJMU wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 7:46 pm For football the travel is no big deal. 5-6 games and they can charter, doesn’t matter if going from Eugene to State College, its non stop. Yeah a 6 hr flight is longer than 2, but for the most part its not a huge deal. Its their Oly sport brethern that have 2x-3x the travel time for away game times 2x3 times the # of away games, including weekdays, that are going to be hammered by this. But $$$ (football and to a lesser extent mens’ b-ball) drive the bus..

Most of the Big 10 teams arent’t in or near major cities with hub airports. Might be miscounting, but even with the LA and Seattle additions, only counting 5 of 18. For most of the teams who are flying commericial (ie everyone but football?), some will be able to go non stop for some games/1 stop for others. Majority of Olypic sports teams will go 1 stop fo a majority of away games.. Some cases some oly sports teams in small cities for some of their away games will have to take 3 flights each way, spending 2 full days traveling, being gone for 3-4 days, something they wouldn’t have had to do before for a conference game. For example I just did a search for roundtrip flights from Eugene, OR to State College, PA using a couple of random Fridays in Oct. Everything was at least 3 legs. MINIMUM travel times were about 11 hrs each direction, and some of those had tight connections, like 38 min. And you travel with the 3 legs, your odds of delays and mis connects goes up exponentially. And the travel times just went up from there (cheapest tickets were 18+ and 21+ hr travel times each way). Course that doesn’t include bus ride to airport, getting there couple hrs early, and getting out of aiport with checked gear & bus ride from airport to hotel on back end, and then in reverse the other way. For some of these schools its going to be an $$$ travel nightmare..Most important person in the Athletic Dept might be whoever schedules travel for the Oly sport teams..
I don't disagree with your overall point (this is going to be a PITA for the Olympic sports and hurts student athletes) but what are your 5? How are you defining near and hub?

I have 8:
- Maryland
- Michigan
- Minnesota
- Northwestern
- Rutgers
- USC
- UCLA
- Washington
Yeah I was way off on that. According to someone on the JMU
it will be 11 of 18 of the current within one 1 of a major airport and/or hub. So point remains, but only for 7 of 18, not 13..
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by kalm »

Well written piece here on what happened. UW President ‘do what’s right.’

:rofl:

https://247sports.com/college/washingto ... 214082449/
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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kalm wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:11 am Well written piece here on what happened. UW President ‘do what’s right.’

:rofl:

https://247sports.com/college/washingto ... 214082449/
Did they do what was right for their football program?

UDub and Oregon will probably get about $30 million/year to start ramping up to $60/million/year. They'll have an opportunity to play more games in better timeslots and on more major networks. Their recruiting will be better as a result and they'll have a better chance to compete for national championships.

This sucks for the Olympic athletes and for the remaining PAC teams but the PAC leadership screwed the pooch when they didn't take the deal last year. They bet the farm on rights deals improving and instead sports networks have been cutting costs.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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UNI88 wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:29 am
kalm wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:11 am Well written piece here on what happened. UW President ‘do what’s right.’

:rofl:

https://247sports.com/college/washingto ... 214082449/
Did they do what was right for their football program?

UDub and Oregon will probably get about $30 million/year to start ramping up to $60/million/year. They'll have an opportunity to play more games in better timeslots and on more major networks. Their recruiting will be better as a result and they'll have a better chance to compete for national championships.

This sucks for the Olympic athletes and for the remaining PAC teams but the PAC leadership screwed the pooch when they didn't take the deal last year. They bet the farm on rights deals improving and instead sports networks have been cutting costs.
Exactly. Canzano is reporting hey were offered $30 million last year but insisted on $50m
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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I can't fault schools for doing what's best in terms of return of money and staying in the limelight. Football, and to a much less extent basketball, are really the only two sports that the public even notices and attends (obviously there are some other niche sports at specific colleges, I get that, but I'm speaking in general terms). And there's a real big gap between Big10/SEC money and everything else. If you can get it, go for it. As for the Olympic sports, eh. In the end, very few people outside of friends and families of those playing even watch these events, let alone watch them in person. Would it be the end of the world for these sports to fade away at the college level? And I have a kid who can run at a D1 level, so I'm not dissing the athletes who play these sports. But to the average college student, most don't even see a single game played of these other non-football, non-basketball sports (or whatever happens to be niche at a particular school) during their time in college. Do colleges really need golf teams? Track? Tennis?
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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GannonFan wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:41 am I can't fault schools for doing what's best in terms of return of money and staying in the limelight. Football, and to a much less extent basketball, are really the only two sports that the public even notices and attends (obviously there are some other niche sports at specific colleges, I get that, but I'm speaking in general terms). And there's a real big gap between Big10/SEC money and everything else. If you can get it, go for it. As for the Olympic sports, eh. In the end, very few people outside of friends and families of those playing even watch these events, let alone watch them in person. Would it be the end of the world for these sports to fade away at the college level? And I have a kid who can run at a D1 level, so I'm not dissing the athletes who play these sports. But to the average college student, most don't even see a single game played of these other non-football, non-basketball sports (or whatever happens to be niche at a particular school) during their time in college. Do colleges really need golf teams? Track? Tennis?
When I was in college I attended wrestling matches (niche sport in Iowa), volleyball games, baseball games, etc. and I like colleges sponsoring Olympic sports. Pandoras box is already open but I wish they had separated football from the other sports in creating these mega conferences and kept the regional rivalries and travel for the Olympic sports.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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This is NOT what's best. What's best is strictly an opinion, of course, but for me, it's 9 teams for football and 10 for Olympic sports within a relatively close geographic footprint. That enables full use of travel partners for hoops and a full 8-game in-conference schedule with 3 or 4 OOC games (depending on the year) for football. Resurrect the old SWC/Big VIII. These megaconferences are bad for the game....
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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SuperHornet wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:58 pm This is NOT what's best. What's best is strictly an opinion, of course, but for me, it's 9 teams for football and 10 for Olympic sports within a relatively close geographic footprint. That enables full use of travel partners for hoops and a full 8-game in-conference schedule with 3 or 4 OOC games (depending on the year) for football. Resurrect the old SWC/Big VIII. These megaconferences are bad for the game....
I never understood this "travel partner" thing. It's not like teams from different schools are sharing transportation. It's not like the bus from the one school drives around and picks up the other team to save on gas and tolls. They don't coordinate hotels, meals, etc. Always weird that they would bring up "travel" partners when it's nothing of the kind.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am
SuperHornet wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:58 pm This is NOT what's best. What's best is strictly an opinion, of course, but for me, it's 9 teams for football and 10 for Olympic sports within a relatively close geographic footprint. That enables full use of travel partners for hoops and a full 8-game in-conference schedule with 3 or 4 OOC games (depending on the year) for football. Resurrect the old SWC/Big VIII. These megaconferences are bad for the game....
I never understood this "travel partner" thing. It's not like teams from different schools are sharing transportation. It's not like the bus from the one school drives around and picks up the other team to save on gas and tolls. They don't coordinate hotels, meals, etc. Always weird that they would bring up "travel" partners when it's nothing of the kind.
I think partner is the wrong word. My guess is that Rutgers' tennis team would fly to the PNW and play Oregon on one day and Washington a couple of days later. The "partnership" really benefits the visiting conference teams. Less time spent flying, less stress, etc.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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UNI88 wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:11 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am

I never understood this "travel partner" thing. It's not like teams from different schools are sharing transportation. It's not like the bus from the one school drives around and picks up the other team to save on gas and tolls. They don't coordinate hotels, meals, etc. Always weird that they would bring up "travel" partners when it's nothing of the kind.
I think partner is the wrong word. My guess is that Rutgers' tennis team would fly to the PNW and play Oregon on one day and Washington a couple of days later. The "partnership" really benefits the visiting conference teams. Less time spent flying, less stress, etc.
Still, it's not like these schools are right next to each other. UW and WSU are like a 5 hour bus ride from each other. Sure there are ones that are closer, but not a ton.

I don't get why conference teams in the Olympic conferences need to play so many conference games. Just invite everyone to the conference championships and let them play schedules that make sense. If it's too far to send the tennis team to play someone else in the conference, just play an OOC team nearby that makes sense. Conferences for the olympic teams don't make as much sense as it does for the revenue sports. Especially once you start having different affiliations for different sports. Some schools are in 3 or 4 conferences depending on the sports offered. I'm never sure, outside of football and basketball, who are in the conferences anyway so why even bother?
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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Cal, Stanford, and SMU to the ACC.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/acc-adds-s ... ning-2024/

Looks like the now 2PAC will be officially DEAD in 2024. What now happens to WA St & OR St? MWC?

Who does the AAC now go after to replace SMU? TX St?
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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9 years of no TV revenue :suspicious:

The ACC Adding Stanford, Cal and SMU Makes Absolutely No Sense

...So this is where we are. An East Coast conference lured two West Coast schools by promising roughly half the money they were previously making, while getting a school in Texas, essentially for free. It's also worth noting, none of the three schools are any good at revenue-generating sports. They'll be bottom feeders in the ACC and provide very little value as far as ratings go….
https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/acc-st ... h994jvacgv
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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BDKJMU wrote:Cal, Stanford, and SMU to the ACC.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/acc-adds-s ... ning-2024/

Looks like the now 2PAC will be officially DEAD in 2024. What now happens to WA St & OR St? MWC?

Who does the AAC now go after to replace SMU? TX St?
The 2Pac schools have millions in conference funds to themselves. They’ll be well off financially for several years.

And the MWC would take them with open arms and probably give them a sweetheart deal like Boise has.


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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 9:28 pm
BDKJMU wrote:Cal, Stanford, and SMU to the ACC.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/acc-adds-s ... ning-2024/

Looks like the now 2PAC will be officially DEAD in 2024. What now happens to WA St & OR St? MWC?

Who does the AAC now go after to replace SMU? TX St?
The 2Pac schools have millions in conference funds to themselves. They’ll be well off financially for several years.

And the MWC would take them with open arms and probably give them a sweetheart deal like Boise has.


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That’s really the only outcome that makes sense now.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by dal4018 »

The ACC has snatched up Stanford, California and SMU
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by dal4018 »

kalm wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:26 am
UNI88 wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 9:28 pm
The 2Pac schools have millions in conference funds to themselves. They’ll be well off financially for several years.

And the MWC would take them with open arms and probably give them a sweetheart deal like Boise has.


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That’s really the only outcome that makes sense now.
Why didn't THE BIG XII go after SMU this school is in their backyard.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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SuperHornet wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:09 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:56 am One crazy rumor I've heard is Cal & Stanford to the ACC... :suspicious:

But then you could no longer call it the ATLANTIC Coast Conference.

‘Bicoastal’ means both coasts..
You have transatlantic flights crossing the Atlantic & transcontinental flights crossing the continental US.

So if you had a ‘_______ Coast Conference’ on both coasts, it would have to be one of the below:
-The ‘BiCoastal Conference’ (BC or BCC).
-The ‘TransCoastal Conference’ (TC or TCC).
-The ‘Atlantic Pacific Coast Conference’ (APCC) (Pacific-Atlantic Coast Conferece (PACC) wouldn’t work with a PAC-___# conference)..
I've heard both ACC and the AAC making a push for Cal and Stanford.

There's precedent for keeping the anomalous conference name. The East Coast Hockey League at one time had teams all the way to Stockton, CA (where UOP is) until a major shift sent Stockton's team to NY and brought an AHL team to Stockton. The point was to bring lots of minor league teams closer to their NHL affiliates. That AHL team moved to Calgary this past season. Last I heard, though, the ECHL still had a team in Utah.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by BDKJMU »

dal4018 wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:30 pm
kalm wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:26 am

That’s really the only outcome that makes sense now.
Why didn't THE BIG XII go after SMU this school is in their backyard.
Already had a school in the DFW market- TCU. Promoting a G5 to P5/P4 in the same market you have the only P5/P4 school in makes no sense.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

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Could Pac-12 survive after all? Oregon State, Washington State hope so with legal move
Though not the most ideal option, Barnes said that a two-team Pac-12 is “doable.” The Pac-2, in this case, would be recognized as a conference by the NCAA because of the association’s two-year grace period, something that provides “options” for the league going forward, said Washington State athletic director Pat Chun.

Murthy, Barnes and Chun spoke to Yahoo Sports on Friday after the two schools, left without a home after the breakup of the Pac-12, filed suit against commissioner George Kliavkoff and the 10 outgoing universities in an effort to control the governance of the conference and potentially preserve the league moving forward.
...
Rebuilding the Pac-12 would potentially retain the league’s brand and assets as well, most notably the Autonomy Five legislative status, impending NCAA tournament basketball revenue shares, bowl contracts and revenue from the College Football Playoff as a Power Five league.
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by SDHornet »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am
SuperHornet wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:58 pm This is NOT what's best. What's best is strictly an opinion, of course, but for me, it's 9 teams for football and 10 for Olympic sports within a relatively close geographic footprint. That enables full use of travel partners for hoops and a full 8-game in-conference schedule with 3 or 4 OOC games (depending on the year) for football. Resurrect the old SWC/Big VIII. These megaconferences are bad for the game....
I never understood this "travel partner" thing. It's not like teams from different schools are sharing transportation. It's not like the bus from the one school drives around and picks up the other team to save on gas and tolls. They don't coordinate hotels, meals, etc. Always weird that they would bring up "travel" partners when it's nothing of the kind.
I always took this as a way to get the best bang for the buck when a team travels (non-FB sports of course). Take the old Pac12, if you are flying to LA or the Bay Area, you play 2 games in a weekend from one round trip flight vs 3 flights for schools not in the same city. This becomes less meaningful if conferences don't have a "partner" within busing distance of each other to reduce one flight per trip. :twocents:
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Re: P5 conference realignment.

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:41 pm
GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am

I never understood this "travel partner" thing. It's not like teams from different schools are sharing transportation. It's not like the bus from the one school drives around and picks up the other team to save on gas and tolls. They don't coordinate hotels, meals, etc. Always weird that they would bring up "travel" partners when it's nothing of the kind.
I always took this as a way to get the best bang for the buck when a team travels (non-FB sports of course). Take the old Pac12, if you are flying to LA or the Bay Area, you play 2 games in a weekend from one round trip flight vs 3 flights for schools not in the same city. This becomes less meaningful if conferences don't have a "partner" within busing distance of each other to reduce one flight per trip. :twocents:
:nod:

ISU and Weber, NAU and SUU, etc.
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