G5 Playoff

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Wildcat Ryan »

I guess if Money is all that matters at the FBS G5 schools and not national respect, national titles, playoff appearances etc. etc. Then they are where they want to be. I mean who wouldn't want to play in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl? Playoff appearances? Who needs them.

I find it funny, On Sunday as I was watching my Cowboys crush the Giants at the bar, I was talking to my buddy (who is a Notre Dame and UCLA Fan) about Weber's close game against Cal. This guy wearing a BYU hat at the table next to us reaches over, taps me on the shoulder and asks me Why would I want to be a Weber State fan? How I could possibly cheer for a team that doesn't play at the highest level of college football? I turned to him and said. I was born and raised in Ogden. They were the home town team and they grew on me.

He snickered and rolled his eyes and then I asked him. Why would you want to be a BYU fan?

He looked at me like I was crazy but I went on to say...
You have no conference title to fight for, Your biggest rival is leaving you in the dust athletically, your season is over after you lose one game, you have no legitimate shot at the playoffs or a national title, despite what you think you don't play at the highest level of college football and you're NOT Notre Dame. So what other than being slotted in this year's "who gives a damn bowl" is there to be excited about?

The gentleman began to answer me back but just turned back to his table. As a closing statement I leaned over and said. No, Weber does not play at the highest level, they do however participate in one of the stronger FCS conferences, can challenge for that conference's title, have healthy conference rivalries, can make the playoffs with more than one loss and actually have a legitimate shot at winning a National title at their level. Unlike BYU.


I can understand the move from a monetary stance, but from a fans point of view I don't understand the allure of non power 5 FBS football. Look at Idaho, Idaho's fans are furious that they are dropping yet they have had like two good season's since moving up and have not had a realistic shot at ever being relevant at the FBS level. There is no way that program would survive Independence, they don't have enough support or money to buy home games, their schedule would be filled with BCS money road beatdowns and they would probably never play a bowl game again. Teams like Idaho, Georgia Southern, App State, Texas State etc. are more irrelevant nationally now than they were at the FCS level. Anybody who disagrees is deluding themselves.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Pwns »

Wildcat Ryan wrote:I guess if Money is all that matters at the FBS G5 schools and not national respect, national titles, playoff appearances etc. etc. Then they are where they want to be. I mean who wouldn't want to play in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl? Playoff appearances? Who needs them.

I find it funny, On Sunday as I was watching my Cowboys crush the Giants at the bar, I was talking to my buddy (who is a Notre Dame and UCLA Fan) about Weber's close game against Cal. This guy wearing a BYU hat at the table next to us reaches over, taps me on the shoulder and asks me Why would I want to be a Weber State fan? How I could possibly cheer for a team that doesn't play at the highest level of college football? I turned to him and said. I was born and raised in Ogden. They were the home town team and they grew on me.

He snickered and rolled his eyes and then I asked him. Why would you want to be a BYU fan?

He looked at me like I was crazy but I went on to say...
You have no conference title to fight for, Your biggest rival is leaving you in the dust athletically, your season is over after you lose one game, you have no legitimate shot at the playoffs or a national title, despite what you think you don't play at the highest level of college football and you're NOT Notre Dame. So what other than being slotted in this year's "who gives a damn bowl" is there to be excited about?

The gentleman began to answer me back but just turned back to his table. As a closing statement I leaned over and said. No, Weber does not play at the highest level, they do however participate in one of the stronger FCS conferences, can challenge for that conference's title, have healthy conference rivalries, can make the playoffs with more than one loss and actually have a legitimate shot at winning a National title at their level. Unlike BYU.

I can understand the move from a monetary stance, but from a fans point of view I don't understand the allure of non power 5 FBS football. Look at Idaho, Idaho's fans are furious that they are dropping yet they have had like two good season's since moving up and have not had a realistic shot at ever being relevant at the FBS level. There is no way that program would survive Independence, they don't have enough support or money to buy home games, their schedule would be filled with BCS money road beatdowns and they would probably never play a bowl game again. Teams like Idaho, Georgia Southern, App State, Texas State etc. are more irrelevant nationally now than they were at the FCS level. Anybody who disagrees is deluding themselves.
Let's be real, here...the vast majority of FCS programs (including those in the Power FCS conferences) have no realistic shot at a national championship. Doesn't matter that they can get an automatic bid. Heck 3 programs have won 10 of the last 13 national championships. In that same time period 9 different FBS teams have won it. If fans are going to hang it up for having no realistic host at a NC, most fan bases should dissolve.

I don't know where on Earth people get this idea that fans think when they move to the Sun Belt or CUSA or even the AAC that they are going to be peers with the Ohio States and Alabamas and everyone else. They move up to be peers with other non-Power-5 schools.

And I'm not crazy about the bowl games versus the playoffs, but I definitely like our regular-season schedules much more now.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Skjellyfetti »

I would like to hear a Western Michigan fan's perspective.

Even though they didn't compete for a national championship last year - would they have preferred an FCS championship game appearance vs. JMU for a national championship or a Cotton Bowl appearance vs. Wisconsin.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by 89Hen »

Some move up teams attendance for 2016

Appalachian St - 26,153
Arkansas St - 22,700 (pretty sure a bogus number)
FIU - 16,789
FAU - 10,073
Ga. Southern - 20,819
Georgia St - 15,103
Massachusetts - 14,510
Old Dominion - 20,118
Texas St - 18,120
Troy - 22,534
Western Ky - 17,705

So nobody is really drawing any more fans than they did in I-AA except maybe ArkSt and Troy but both are documented as inflating their numbers and losing money. I'm pretty sure ODU sold 20k season tickets their first year in I-AA.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Wildcat Ryan »

Pwns wrote:
Wildcat Ryan wrote:I guess if Money is all that matters at the FBS G5 schools and not national respect, national titles, playoff appearances etc. etc. Then they are where they want to be. I mean who wouldn't want to play in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl? Playoff appearances? Who needs them.

I find it funny, On Sunday as I was watching my Cowboys crush the Giants at the bar, I was talking to my buddy (who is a Notre Dame and UCLA Fan) about Weber's close game against Cal. This guy wearing a BYU hat at the table next to us reaches over, taps me on the shoulder and asks me Why would I want to be a Weber State fan? How I could possibly cheer for a team that doesn't play at the highest level of college football? I turned to him and said. I was born and raised in Ogden. They were the home town team and they grew on me.

He snickered and rolled his eyes and then I asked him. Why would you want to be a BYU fan?

He looked at me like I was crazy but I went on to say...
You have no conference title to fight for, Your biggest rival is leaving you in the dust athletically, your season is over after you lose one game, you have no legitimate shot at the playoffs or a national title, despite what you think you don't play at the highest level of college football and you're NOT Notre Dame. So what other than being slotted in this year's "who gives a damn bowl" is there to be excited about?

The gentleman began to answer me back but just turned back to his table. As a closing statement I leaned over and said. No, Weber does not play at the highest level, they do however participate in one of the stronger FCS conferences, can challenge for that conference's title, have healthy conference rivalries, can make the playoffs with more than one loss and actually have a legitimate shot at winning a National title at their level. Unlike BYU.

I can understand the move from a monetary stance, but from a fans point of view I don't understand the allure of non power 5 FBS football. Look at Idaho, Idaho's fans are furious that they are dropping yet they have had like two good season's since moving up and have not had a realistic shot at ever being relevant at the FBS level. There is no way that program would survive Independence, they don't have enough support or money to buy home games, their schedule would be filled with BCS money road beatdowns and they would probably never play a bowl game again. Teams like Idaho, Georgia Southern, App State, Texas State etc. are more irrelevant nationally now than they were at the FCS level. Anybody who disagrees is deluding themselves.
Let's be real, here...the vast majority of FCS programs (including those in the Power FCS conferences) have no realistic shot at a national championship. Doesn't matter that they can get an automatic bid. Heck 3 programs have won 10 of the last 13 national championships. In that same time period 9 different FBS teams have won it. If fans are going to hang it up for having no realistic host at a NC, most fan bases should dissolve.

I don't know where on Earth people get this idea that fans think when they move to the Sun Belt or CUSA or even the AAC that they are going to be peers with the Ohio States and Alabamas and everyone else. They move up to be peers with other non-Power-5 schools.

And I'm not crazy about the bowl games versus the playoffs, but I definitely like our regular-season schedules much more now.

Weber probably never will win the FCS championship, but their chances at the start of the season of getting there and winning it is just as high as North Dakota State's. Georgia Southern will never have that again.


Again I don't see the allure in that, you want to be peers with the other 50% who the power 5 schools and national sports media see as irrelevant?

Looking over your OOC schedule this year compared to your last year at FCS, Your last year at FCS you had 2 home games and one money away game, this year you have 2 money road games, a road game @ FBSINO UMASS and your only OOC home game is an FCS game which you lost. Not sure how the new schedules are that much more attractive.

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Wildcat Ryan wrote:Weber probably never will win the FCS championship, but their chances at the start of the season of getting there and winning it is just as high as North Dakota State's.
If football was played as a coin toss tournament, sure. But, that isn't how it works. You don't have the same chance of getting there as NDSU...


Wildcat Ryan wrote:Looking over your OOC schedule this year compared to your last year at FCS, Your last year at FCS you had 2 home games and one money away game, this year you have 2 money road games, a road game @ FBSINO UMASS and your only OOC home game is an FCS game which you lost. Not sure how the new schedules are that much more attractive.
That's Georgia Southern.

App State hosted Miami last year and hosts Wake Forest this year. Going from hosting non-scholly FCS schools to P5 teams is as big of an upgrade to your OOC schedule as you can have.
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by 89Hen »

89Hen wrote:So nobody is really drawing any more fans than they did in I-AA except maybe ArkSt and Troy but both are documented as inflating their numbers and losing money.
Just in case you think I'm making that up.

http://www.troytrojans.com/news/2017/4/ ... -best.aspx
Additionally, three of the top-10 attended games in stadium history came during the 2016 season – Appalachian State (25,782)...
Their stadium seats just over 30,000 which means it was 86% full. Yeah...

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Well, that is the visitors side. So maybe the home side was overflowing...

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Wildcat Ryan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Wildcat Ryan wrote:Weber probably never will win the FCS championship, but their chances at the start of the season of getting there and winning it is just as high as North Dakota State's.
If football was played as a coin toss tournament, sure. But, that isn't how it works. You don't have the same chance of getting there as NDSU...


Wildcat Ryan wrote:Looking over your OOC schedule this year compared to your last year at FCS, Your last year at FCS you had 2 home games and one money away game, this year you have 2 money road games, a road game @ FBSINO UMASS and your only OOC home game is an FCS game which you lost. Not sure how the new schedules are that much more attractive.
That's Georgia Southern.

App State hosted Miami last year and hosts Wake Forest this year. Going from hosting non-scholly FCS schools to P5 teams is as big of an upgrade to your OOC schedule as you can have.

Not true. Every FCS team who participates in the playoffs has a shot, sure the odds are stacked against them but upsets happen in sports all the time. Unlike the FBS where if Georgia State went undefeated in their season, they still wouldn't even sniff the top 10 in the rankings. An undefeated Western Michigan could only get as high as #15 last year.

Well I was talking to a Georgia Southern Fan at the time. And he said GA Southern's schedules were better now, which after looking at their 2017 schedule I disagree with.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by dbackjon »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Wildcat Ryan wrote:Weber probably never will win the FCS championship, but their chances at the start of the season of getting there and winning it is just as high as North Dakota State's.
If football was played as a coin toss tournament, sure. But, that isn't how it works. You don't have the same chance of getting there as NDSU...


Wildcat Ryan wrote:Looking over your OOC schedule this year compared to your last year at FCS, Your last year at FCS you had 2 home games and one money away game, this year you have 2 money road games, a road game @ FBSINO UMASS and your only OOC home game is an FCS game which you lost. Not sure how the new schedules are that much more attractive.
That's Georgia Southern.

App State hosted Miami last year and hosts Wake Forest this year. Going from hosting non-scholly FCS schools to P5 teams is as big of an upgrade to your OOC schedule as you can have.

Ok - Miami is one good game...

2018 = Southern Miss and Garner Webb
2019 - Charlotte and ETSU
2020 - UMass (FCS for sure)
2021 - Marshall and Elon
2022 - North Carolina and Akron


So in the next five years, only one marquee game (Tar Holes) and only one non-former FCS Team (USM).

Conference games will consist of Ga State, Troy, GS, CCU - all FCS move-ups.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by 89Hen »

dbackjon wrote:Ok - Miami is one good game...
Except on the scoreboard.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Yeah, if you ignore some quality OOC games... the rest aren't that great. We even play a SoCon team and a CAA team. Blegh.

But, that's the way OOC schedules work. If you ignore Florida State, Alabama plays Colorado State and Mercer OOC this year. :lol:
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by dbackjon »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, if you ignore some quality OOC games... the rest aren't that great. We even play a SoCon team. Blegh.

But, that's the way OOC schedules work. If you ignore Florida State, Alabama plays Colorado State and Mercer OOC this year. :lol:


Hell, NAU has quality OOC road games

Alabama also plays Florida, Georgia, Auburn, etc every year. App State plays a bunch of FCS teams in conference.

Try again.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Skjellyfetti »

dbackjon wrote: Hell, NAU has quality OOC road games
We're not talking about money games.
dbackjon wrote:App State plays a bunch of FCS teams in conference.
You seem to be using FCS as a pejorative. Not really helping your case. :lol:
Last edited by Skjellyfetti on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by dbackjon »

Oh, and those exciting road games:

Penn State - good, money game for a slaughter
ECU - bleh, they'd finish last in the So Con
Charlotte - FCS-lite
UMass - FCS-lite
UNC - whoopy - NAU gets road games like that
Wake, Marshall, ECU (twice more), Whyoming.

Yeah, killer
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by dbackjon »

Georgia Southern's OOC

2017
09/02 - at Auburn
09/09 - New Hampshire
09/23 - at Indiana
10/21 - at UMass

2018
09/01 - Presbyterian
09/08 - UMass
09/15 - at Clemson
10/20 - at New Mexico State

2019
08/31 - at LSU
09/07 - Maine
09/14 - at Minnesota
10/19 - New Mexico State

2020
09/19 - Florida Atlantic
09/26 - Houston
10/31 - at Ole Miss
(FCS)
2021
09/04 - at Houston
09/18 - at Arkansas
09/25 - at Florida Atlantic
(FCS)
2022
09/17 - at UAB
09/24 - Ball State
(FCS)
2023
09/09 - UAB
09/23 - at Ball State
(FCS)


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Skjellyfetti »

dbackjon wrote: UNC - whoopy - NAU gets road games like that
Again, we aren't talking about money games.

We have UNC coming to Boone. Think Arizona or Arizona State will be coming to Flagstaff anytime soon? :coffee:

And, yes. Georgia Southern's OOC scheduling has been lackluster. Pretty happy with ours. 8-)
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by dbackjon »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
dbackjon wrote: UNC - whoopy - NAU gets road games like that
Again, we aren't talking about money games.

We have UNC coming to Boone. Think Arizona or Arizona State will be coming to Flagstaff anytime soon? :coffee:

And, yes. Georgia Southern's OOC scheduling has been lackluster. Pretty happy with ours. 8-)
ONE good game in the next 7 years. ONE.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Skjellyfetti »

...if you ignore Miami last year and Wake Forest this year. And the fact that we don't have schedules finalized for the next decade... you're right. One game. ONE. :suspicious:
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by dbackjon »

Skjellyfetti wrote:...if you ignore Miami last year and Wake Forest this year. And the fact that we don't have schedules finalized for the next decade... you're right. One game. ONE. :suspicious:
Wake :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

2017
09/02 - at Georgia
09/09 - Savannah State
09/23 - Wake Forest
10/28 - at UMass

2018
09/01 - at Penn State
09/08 - at Charlotte
09/15 - Southern Miss
09/22 - Gardner-Webb

2019
08/31 - ETSU
09/07 - Charlotte
09/21 - at North Carolina
- Likely Road Money Game
2020
09/12 - at Wake Forest
09/26 - UMass
- Road money game + FCS Home
2021
09/04 - East Carolina (at Charlotte, NC)
09/11 - at Miami (FL)
09/18 - Elon
09/25 - Marshall

2022
09/03 - North Carolina
09/17 - at Marshall
09/24 - Akron
- FCS Game
2023
09/09 - at North Carolina
09/23 - at Wyoming
FCS Game + Liberty/ODU or lame MAC Team

2024
08/31 - ETSU
09/14 - at East Carolina
Money game plus at return of 2023 ODU/Liberty/MAC
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Pwns »

Wildcat Ryan wrote: Weber probably never will win the FCS championship, but their chances at the start of the season of getting there and winning it is just as high as North Dakota State's. Georgia Southern will never have that again.
Seems contradictory to me. If you're talking about inclusion in the playoffs, I'm confident the playoffs will expand long before Georgia Southern can field a team that would legitimately be one of the top 4 teams in the country.
Wildcat Ryan wrote:Again I don't see the allure in that, you want to be peers with the other 50% who the power 5 schools and national sports media see as irrelevant?
Personally, I would rather watch JMU versus NDSU than watch many of the mid-tier bowl games. I'd rather watch a typical quarterfinal game than some of the lower-tier bowl games. But that's not the opinion of the casual football fan. Our Go Daddy Bowl game against Bowling Green was watched by more people than almost any FCS/I-AA ever aired. You might say there's no more national relevance for the G5 than the FCS, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

You can accuse FBS teams of inflating attendance, but you can't accuse ESPN of not airing the games that will get the most eyeballs.
Wildcat Ryan wrote:Looking over your OOC schedule this year compared to your last year at FCS, Your last year at FCS you had 2 home games and one money away game, this year you have 2 money road games, a road game @ FBSINO UMASS and your only OOC home game is an FCS game which you lost. Not sure how the new schedules are that much more attractive.

To each his own
We have a pretty bad non-conference schedule, as jelly mentioned. But I would still take this schedule over most any we had in the FCS. Ten years ago we would been amped to have a non-conference schedule with UMass, UNH, and Indiana and have a lower-tier FBS schedule.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by UNI88 »

I don't understand the all of the vitriol toward Georgia Southern, App State and the rest. I like where UNI is at and hope they stay there and compete for national championships. Yes FCS would be better if GSU and ASU had stayed but they did what they thought was best for them and I wish them good luck (although I might give their fans a little grief if the opportunity presents itself :D ).

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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by dbackjon »

UNI88 wrote:I don't understand the all of the vitriol toward Georgia Southern, App State and the rest. I like where UNI is at and hope they stay there and compete for national championships. Yes FCS would be better if GSU and ASU had stayed but they did what they thought was best for them and I wish them good luck (although I might give their fans a little grief if the opportunity presents itself :D ).
Opportunity Presented Itself :nod:
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by JohnStOnge »

Baldy wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:Baldy, to follow up: I just ran the numbers for Georgia Southern's finances for 2016 vs. it's last year in FCS (2013) using the data at http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/.

Note that I am deducting the amount the school has to kick in to support the athletic department from the "revenues" portion because that is a cost to the school.

Having done that, Georgia Southern's athletic programs resulted in a net loss of $7.8 million to the school in 2016. In 2013, the last year that Georgia Southern was in FCS, the net loss was $2.5 million.

Again: If you think going FBS is a financial benefit to your school you are kidding yourself.

In the meantime you've moved from a level of competition in which you had a chance to compete for being among the best to one in which you have no chance of doing that. You do not belong int he same competition level as the University of Georgia and Georgia Tech. You just don't. You're being a poser by attempting to do it.
Yeah, you're an idiot. :dunce:

Numbers aren't your thing. Stick to topics you're more familiar with...like The Hildabeast's nutsack and lusting after prepubescent teens.

Due to recent construction projects to several of our facilities: $1+ million for the baseball stadium, $2 Million for the basketball arena, another $1 Million in infrastructure upgrades to Paulson Stadium (HVAC, IT, etc), recent work to the university golf course, and God only knows what else, the "Facilities" portion of the Expense Sheet (yeah, that was included...do your homework) increased by 6 fold since our last year in FCS. Those were one time expenses, those would have happened regardless of what division of football we play.

Keep trying. :coffee:
Numbers are the thing, Baldy. I'm very familiar with this topic because I have studied it for years. Your school is harming itself financially by pursuing FBS football.

The revenues vs. expenses picture will persist, just like it's persisted for other schools that have moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS in the past. Like Marshall, for example, "enjoying" suffering a $7.4 million loss on its athletic programs during 2016. Or even Boise State; which had its athletic programs result in a net loss to the school of $9.4 million during that year.

Meanwhile your school went from a level of competition in which it could compete to be among the best to one in which it cannot.
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Wildcat Ryan
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by Wildcat Ryan »

Pwns wrote:
Wildcat Ryan wrote: Weber probably never will win the FCS championship, but their chances at the start of the season of getting there and winning it is just as high as North Dakota State's. Georgia Southern will never have that again.
Seems contradictory to me. If you're talking about inclusion in the playoffs, I'm confident the playoffs will expand long before Georgia Southern can field a team that would legitimately be one of the top 4 teams in the country.

.

What's contradictory about it? I don't believe Weber will ever win a National Championship, but they are not limited by their conference affiliation to fight for one. And they don't have to hope the NCAA gives them a top 4 ranking to even get a shot at the playoffs. Unlike most of the FBS.

I can understand wanting to be on the Big Stage, with games being broadcasted on live television. And maybe if the FBS changed their playoff format and allowed all conferences to participate in it then I would be in fully alright with that level of football, but it's not likely to ever happen, the NCAA doesn't want the Western Kentucky's of the world playing for a National Championship. The FCS playoffs on the other hand give every team who's conference participates in the playoffs an equal chance to win it.
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Re: G5 Playoff

Post by SDHornet »

DBJ has completely pwned this (revisited) thread. Well done my gay brother. :thumb:

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