Deserves its own thread

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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote:
UNI88 wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:12 pm How many times have you and other MAQA yahoos called a Republican that didn't support trump a RINO?
Typical ‘But Trump’ retort from you.
Typical I got nothing to justify my hypocrisy so I’ll cry but trump response from you.


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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by kalm »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:00 pm
kalm wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:23 am

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Albert dominated his classmates so his views on education were obviously distorted…

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

For those who are interested in schools that produce academic success for minority students, there is no lack of examples., past and present. Tragically, there is a lack of interest by the public school establishment in such examples. Again, I think this goes back to the politics of education.
Put bluntly, failure attracts more money than success. Politically, failure becomes a reason to demand more money, smaller classes, and more trendy courses and programs, ranging from "black English" to bilingualism and "self-esteem." Politicians who want to look compassionate and concerned know that voting money for such projects accomplishes that purpose for them and voting against such programs risks charges of mean-spiritedness, if not implications of racism.
Some of this is true.

And how dare they want smaller class sizes. :)

I’ll take Einstein any day over Sowell the hack.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by Caribbean Hen »

kalm wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:24 pm
Caribbean Hen wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:00 pm

Albert dominated his classmates so his views on education were obviously distorted…

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

For those who are interested in schools that produce academic success for minority students, there is no lack of examples., past and present. Tragically, there is a lack of interest by the public school establishment in such examples. Again, I think this goes back to the politics of education.
Put bluntly, failure attracts more money than success. Politically, failure becomes a reason to demand more money, smaller classes, and more trendy courses and programs, ranging from "black English" to bilingualism and "self-esteem." Politicians who want to look compassionate and concerned know that voting money for such projects accomplishes that purpose for them and voting against such programs risks charges of mean-spiritedness, if not implications of racism.
Some of this is true.

And how dare they want smaller class sizes. :)

I’ll take Einstein any day over Sowell the hack.
Alberto for math, he didn’t live long enough to see how wrong he was about education

Sowell documents it clearly, only a hack would call Thomas Sowell a hack, or an elitist that doesn’t like to be schooled by a minority

https://www.liberty.org/education/thoma ... -education


“The totalitarian mindset behind the liberal vision shows through in innumerable ways. There are no institutions in America where free speech is more severely restricted than in our politically correct colleges and universities, dominated by liberals…
“Students who openly disagree with the left-wing vision that they are being taught in class can find themselves facing lower grades and insults from the professor in front of their classmates and friends. Offend the hyper-sensitivities of any of the sacred cow groups on campus—even inadvertently—and stronger punishments, ranging up to suspension or expulsion, can follow. On the other hand, if minorities, homosexuals or radical feminists want to shout down speakers they don’t like or engage in vandalism or other mob actions to promote their agendas, that’s OK.”
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by kalm »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:47 am
kalm wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:24 pm

Some of this is true.

And how dare they want smaller class sizes. :)

I’ll take Einstein any day over Sowell the hack.
Alberto for math, he didn’t live long enough to see how wrong he was about education

Sowell documents it clearly, only a hack would call Thomas Sowell a hack, or an elitist that doesn’t like to be schooled by a minority

https://www.liberty.org/education/thoma ... -education


“The totalitarian mindset behind the liberal vision shows through in innumerable ways. There are no institutions in America where free speech is more severely restricted than in our politically correct colleges and universities, dominated by liberals…
“Students who openly disagree with the left-wing vision that they are being taught in class can find themselves facing lower grades and insults from the professor in front of their classmates and friends. Offend the hyper-sensitivities of any of the sacred cow groups on campus—even inadvertently—and stronger punishments, ranging up to suspension or expulsion, can follow. On the other hand, if minorities, homosexuals or radical feminists want to shout down speakers they don’t like or engage in vandalism or other mob actions to promote their agendas, that’s OK.”
Only a racist would use Sowell’s skin color when they’re losing an argument.

This sums up Sowell rather nicely….
Sowell’s arguments are, in the main, sophomoric in construction and ideologically resistant to intervention from the real world. Despite his bluster about Evidence and Facts that purportedly come to knock down the house of left economic and racial ideas, Sowell is unique even among the conservatives he’s usually cited with for his immunity to real knowledge and his social-scientific sophistry.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by GannonFan »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:00 pm
kalm wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:23 am

Image
Albert dominated his classmates so his views on education were obviously distorted…

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

For those who are interested in schools that produce academic success for minority students, there is no lack of examples., past and present. Tragically, there is a lack of interest by the public school establishment in such examples. Again, I think this goes back to the politics of education.
Put bluntly, failure attracts more money than success. Politically, failure becomes a reason to demand more money, smaller classes, and more trendy courses and programs, ranging from "black English" to bilingualism and "self-esteem." Politicians who want to look compassionate and concerned know that voting money for such projects accomplishes that purpose for them and voting against such programs risks charges of mean-spiritedness, if not implications of racism.
Academic success has almost nothing to do with race. There's a far better connection of academic success with wealth (the richer the better the poorer the worse). Poor White schools aren't really any better than poor schools with predominantly minority. And after wealth, or right with it, is the quality of the home life. There's a stat out there that the best predictor of who graduates from college is whether they come from a two parent home or not. Doesn't mean two parents solve everything and doesn't mean having a single parent precludes a person from succeeding, but it's a pretty telling stat nonetheless. Kids are only at school for about 12% of the year on an hours basis, that's only so much time.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by UNI88 »

GannonFan wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:50 am
Caribbean Hen wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:00 pm
Albert dominated his classmates so his views on education were obviously distorted…

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

For those who are interested in schools that produce academic success for minority students, there is no lack of examples., past and present. Tragically, there is a lack of interest by the public school establishment in such examples. Again, I think this goes back to the politics of education.
Put bluntly, failure attracts more money than success. Politically, failure becomes a reason to demand more money, smaller classes, and more trendy courses and programs, ranging from "black English" to bilingualism and "self-esteem." Politicians who want to look compassionate and concerned know that voting money for such projects accomplishes that purpose for them and voting against such programs risks charges of mean-spiritedness, if not implications of racism.
Academic success has almost nothing to do with race. There's a far better connection of academic success with wealth (the richer the better the poorer the worse). Poor White schools aren't really any better than poor schools with predominantly minority. And after wealth, or right with it, is the quality of the home life. There's a stat out there that the best predictor of who graduates from college is whether they come from a two parent home or not. Doesn't mean two parents solve everything and doesn't mean having a single parent precludes a person from succeeding, but it's a pretty telling stat nonetheless. Kids are only at school for about 12% of the year on an hours basis, that's only so much time.
I would include parental involvement with quality of home life. Having substitute taught in a district where the majority of the district was poor and Latino, the students who did better tended to come from stable homes where the parent was involved in their education. Their racial background didn't matter.

Getting parents who come from countries where most jobs involve manual labor and where education isn't valued is an important challenge to overcome.

Devaluing education and demonizing teachers for allegedly brainwashing their students about DEI, socialism and gender identity is not the answer. The vast majority of teachers just want to help their students grow and be successful.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by Caribbean Hen »

GannonFan wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:50 am
Caribbean Hen wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:00 pm

Albert dominated his classmates so his views on education were obviously distorted…

https://www.tsowell.com/speducat.html

For those who are interested in schools that produce academic success for minority students, there is no lack of examples., past and present. Tragically, there is a lack of interest by the public school establishment in such examples. Again, I think this goes back to the politics of education.
Put bluntly, failure attracts more money than success. Politically, failure becomes a reason to demand more money, smaller classes, and more trendy courses and programs, ranging from "black English" to bilingualism and "self-esteem." Politicians who want to look compassionate and concerned know that voting money for such projects accomplishes that purpose for them and voting against such programs risks charges of mean-spiritedness, if not implications of racism.
Academic success has almost nothing to do with race. There's a far better connection of academic success with wealth (the richer the better the poorer the worse). Poor White schools aren't really any better than poor schools with predominantly minority. And after wealth, or right with it, is the quality of the home life. There's a stat out there that the best predictor of who graduates from college is whether they come from a two parent home or not. Doesn't mean two parents solve everything and doesn't mean having a single parent precludes a person from succeeding, but it's a pretty telling stat nonetheless. Kids are only at school for about 12% of the year on an hours basis, that's only so much time.
Yes, that was also in the link … the article from Sowell
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by Caribbean Hen »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:04 am
GannonFan wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:50 am

Academic success has almost nothing to do with race. There's a far better connection of academic success with wealth (the richer the better the poorer the worse). Poor White schools aren't really any better than poor schools with predominantly minority. And after wealth, or right with it, is the quality of the home life. There's a stat out there that the best predictor of who graduates from college is whether they come from a two parent home or not. Doesn't mean two parents solve everything and doesn't mean having a single parent precludes a person from succeeding, but it's a pretty telling stat nonetheless. Kids are only at school for about 12% of the year on an hours basis, that's only so much time.
I would include parental involvement with quality of home life. Having substitute taught in a district where the majority of the district was poor and Latino, the students who did better tended to come from stable homes where the parent was involved in their education. Their racial background didn't matter.

Getting parents who come from countries where most jobs involve manual labor and where education isn't valued is an important challenge to overcome.

Devaluing education and demonizing teachers for allegedly brainwashing their students about DEI, socialism and gender identity is not the answer. The vast majority of teachers just want to help their students grow and be successful.
Exactly!

Black Fathers Matter

As well as Latino, white, oriental and every other race
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by Caribbean Hen »

kalm wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:02 am
Caribbean Hen wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:47 am

Alberto for math, he didn’t live long enough to see how wrong he was about education

Sowell documents it clearly, only a hack would call Thomas Sowell a hack, or an elitist that doesn’t like to be schooled by a minority

https://www.liberty.org/education/thoma ... -education


“The totalitarian mindset behind the liberal vision shows through in innumerable ways. There are no institutions in America where free speech is more severely restricted than in our politically correct colleges and universities, dominated by liberals…
“Students who openly disagree with the left-wing vision that they are being taught in class can find themselves facing lower grades and insults from the professor in front of their classmates and friends. Offend the hyper-sensitivities of any of the sacred cow groups on campus—even inadvertently—and stronger punishments, ranging up to suspension or expulsion, can follow. On the other hand, if minorities, homosexuals or radical feminists want to shout down speakers they don’t like or engage in vandalism or other mob actions to promote their agendas, that’s OK.”
Only a racist would use Sowell’s skin color when they’re losing an argument.

This sums up Sowell rather nicely….
Sowell’s arguments are, in the main, sophomoric in construction and ideologically resistant to intervention from the real world. Despite his bluster about Evidence and Facts that purportedly come to knock down the house of left economic and racial ideas, Sowell is unique even among the conservatives he’s usually cited with for his immunity to real knowledge and his social-scientific sophistry.
What is the argument? Education in the US started going down hill in the Sixties

“The lack of critical thinking skills by the U.S. public, including by the highly educated, has led to disasters. Sowell reflected on the consequences of failing public education in contrast to his own educational experience:
“In later years, I would realize that many disastrous policies had been created by thinking no further than stage one. Getting students to think systematically beyond stage one was a lifetime contribution to their understanding. Another lifetime contribution was a reading list that introduced us to the writings of top-notch minds”
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by UNI88 »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:42 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:04 am
I would include parental involvement with quality of home life. Having substitute taught in a district where the majority of the district was poor and Latino, the students who did better tended to come from stable homes where the parent was involved in their education. Their racial background didn't matter.

Getting parents who come from countries where most jobs involve manual labor and where education isn't valued is an important challenge to overcome.

Devaluing education and demonizing teachers for allegedly brainwashing their students about DEI, socialism and gender identity is not the answer. The vast majority of teachers just want to help their students grow and be successful.
Exactly!

Black Fathers Matter

As well as Latino, white, oriental and every other race
Yes, fathers matter but having a father in the home is less important than prioritizing education. I've seen plenty of single moms whose children did well because they prioritized education and worked their ass off to provide a stable home.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by kalm »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:47 am
kalm wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:02 am

Only a racist would use Sowell’s skin color when they’re losing an argument.

This sums up Sowell rather nicely….



What is the argument? Education in the US started going down hill in the Sixties

“The lack of critical thinking skills by the U.S. public, including by the highly educated, has led to disasters. Sowell reflected on the consequences of failing public education in contrast to his own educational experience:
“In later years, I would realize that many disastrous policies had been created by thinking no further than stage one. Getting students to think systematically beyond stage one was a lifetime contribution to their understanding. Another lifetime contribution was a reading list that introduced us to the writings of top-notch minds”
Like I said, Sowell made a couple of points. But if our education system starts creating more economists like Sowell, we will be the worse for it.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:04 am
GannonFan wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:50 am

Academic success has almost nothing to do with race. There's a far better connection of academic success with wealth (the richer the better the poorer the worse). Poor White schools aren't really any better than poor schools with predominantly minority. And after wealth, or right with it, is the quality of the home life. There's a stat out there that the best predictor of who graduates from college is whether they come from a two parent home or not. Doesn't mean two parents solve everything and doesn't mean having a single parent precludes a person from succeeding, but it's a pretty telling stat nonetheless. Kids are only at school for about 12% of the year on an hours basis, that's only so much time.
I would include parental involvement with quality of home life. Having substitute taught in a district where the majority of the district was poor and Latino, the students who did better tended to come from stable homes where the parent was involved in their education. Their racial background didn't matter.

Getting parents who come from countries where most jobs involve manual labor and where education isn't valued is an important challenge to overcome.

Devaluing education and demonizing teachers for allegedly brainwashing their students about DEI, socialism and gender identity is not the answer. The vast majority of teachers just want to help their students grow and be successful.
Yep. It’s primarily a parenting/societal problem. We graduate brilliant kids all of the time. But we also expect our education system to do all of the work for us.

Education’s strongest impact is teaching HOW to learn.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:10 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:04 am

I would include parental involvement with quality of home life. Having substitute taught in a district where the majority of the district was poor and Latino, the students who did better tended to come from stable homes where the parent was involved in their education. Their racial background didn't matter.

Getting parents who come from countries where most jobs involve manual labor and where education isn't valued is an important challenge to overcome.

Devaluing education and demonizing teachers for allegedly brainwashing their students about DEI, socialism and gender identity is not the answer. The vast majority of teachers just want to help their students grow and be successful.
Yep. It’s primarily a parenting/societal/cultural problem. We graduate brilliant kids all of the time. But we also expect our education system to do all of the work for us.

Education’s strongest impact is teaching HOW to learn.
FYP

The cultural belief that education/school/learning isn't cool, important or is representative of white culture is more prevalent in poorer neighborhoods/towns than it is in wealthier ones and has been for decades.

Valuing knowledge and education are NOT aspects and assumptions of whiteness and white culture. Lots of peoples/cultures have valued knowledge and education at various times in history.

There are links between valuing knowledge/education and individual as well as national success. We need to overcome those cultural barriers.
Last edited by UNI88 on Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by houndawg »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 12:25 pm
UNI88 wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 12:06 pm

Don't be obtuse. Obviously trump isn't going to replace the entire swamp. He's going to replace key people and he's going to attempt to remove and replace thousands of federal civil service workers. It's called Project 2025.
Well I hope you don’t believe there’s not a lot of senior fat cat military guys that spend most of the day planning and writing their “retirement job” description …

Some government fat could be trimmed
...you know, he did ask you nicely not to be obtuse
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by houndawg »

kalm wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:07 pm
Caribbean Hen wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:47 am

What is the argument? Education in the US started going down hill in the Sixties

“The lack of critical thinking skills by the U.S. public, including by the highly educated, has led to disasters. Sowell reflected on the consequences of failing public education in contrast to his own educational experience:
“In later years, I would realize that many disastrous policies had been created by thinking no further than stage one. Getting students to think systematically beyond stage one was a lifetime contribution to their understanding. Another lifetime contribution was a reading list that introduced us to the writings of top-notch minds”
Like I said, Sowell made a couple of points. But if our education system starts creating more economists like Sowell, we will be the worse for it.


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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:50 pm
kalm wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:10 pm

Yep. It’s primarily a parenting/societal/cultural problem. We graduate brilliant kids all of the time. But we also expect our education system to do all of the work for us.

Education’s strongest impact is teaching HOW to learn.
FYP

The cultural belief that education/school/learning isn't cool, important or is representative of white culture is more prevalent in poorer neighborhoods/towns than it is in wealthier ones and has been for decades.

Valuing knowledge and education are aspects and assumptions of whiteness and white culture. Lots of peoples/cultures have valued knowledge and education at various times in history.

There are links between valuing knowledge/education and individual as well as national success. We need to overcome those cultural barriers.
CH - here's your cue to offer yourself as a brilliant example of the superiority of street smarts over book learnin.. :coffee:





:mrgreen:
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by UNI88 »

houndawg wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:41 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:50 pm

FYP

The cultural belief that education/school/learning isn't cool, important or is representative of white culture is more prevalent in poorer neighborhoods/towns than it is in wealthier ones and has been for decades.

Valuing knowledge and education are NOT aspects and assumptions of whiteness and white culture. Lots of peoples/cultures have valued knowledge and education at various times in history.

There are links between valuing knowledge/education and individual as well as national success. We need to overcome those cultural barriers.
CH - here's your cue to offer yourself as a brilliant example of the superiority of street smarts over book learnin.. :coffee:

:mrgreen:
There was a typo in my post.

I would add that people don't have to subscribe to all of the norms in our society but that doesn't mean that the people that do have should have an obligation to share their earnings with them. You don't get to complain about not winning if you refuse to play the game.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by Caribbean Hen »

houndawg wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:41 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:50 pm

FYP

The cultural belief that education/school/learning isn't cool, important or is representative of white culture is more prevalent in poorer neighborhoods/towns than it is in wealthier ones and has been for decades.

Valuing knowledge and education are aspects and assumptions of whiteness and white culture. Lots of peoples/cultures have valued knowledge and education at various times in history.

There are links between valuing knowledge/education and individual as well as national success. We need to overcome those cultural barriers.
CH - here's your cue to offer yourself as a brilliant example of the superiority of street smarts over book learnin.. :coffee:





:mrgreen:
It’s a balance …at some point the bookworm needs to be pushed out of the nest
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by Caribbean Hen »

kalm wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:07 pm
Caribbean Hen wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:47 am

What is the argument? Education in the US started going down hill in the Sixties

“The lack of critical thinking skills by the U.S. public, including by the highly educated, has led to disasters. Sowell reflected on the consequences of failing public education in contrast to his own educational experience:
“In later years, I would realize that many disastrous policies had been created by thinking no further than stage one. Getting students to think systematically beyond stage one was a lifetime contribution to their understanding. Another lifetime contribution was a reading list that introduced us to the writings of top-notch minds”
Like I said, Sowell made a couple of points. But if our education system starts creating more economists like Sowell, we will be the worse for it.
Wrong, he’s made a lifetime of great points

and who’s talking about Sowell the economist anyway ? we’re talking about Sowell on education
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by kalm »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:58 am
kalm wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:07 pm

Like I said, Sowell made a couple of points. But if our education system starts creating more economists like Sowell, we will be the worse for it.
Wrong, he’s made a lifetime of great points

and who’s talking about Sowell the economist anyway ? we’re talking about Sowell on education
He’s a an economist who opined on education and he’s been a favorite of supply siders forever. His ideas are stale.

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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by BDKJMU »

:rofl: on
UNI88 wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:10 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Typical ‘But Trump’ retort from you.
Typical I got nothing to justify my hypocrisy so I’ll cry but trump response from you.


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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 12:51 pm :rofl: on
UNI88 wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:10 pm
Typical I got nothing to justify my hypocrisy so I’ll cry but trump response from you.


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Typical I got nothing to any criticism of the left but my ‘But Trump’ response..
It seems to really bug you when I point out how similar the MAQA right is to the woke left.

What's next? Something about my mom or something about your dad beating up my dad?
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm

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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 1:10 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 12:51 pm :rofl: on
Typical I got nothing to any criticism of the left but my ‘But Trump’ response..
It seems to really bug you when I point out how similar the MAQA right is to the woke left.

What's next? Something about my mom or something about your dad beating up my dad?
No, I actually didn’t mean to put the ‘ :rofl: on’ there. Not sure how that happened.
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by Caribbean Hen »

kalm wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 12:50 pm
Caribbean Hen wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:58 am

Wrong, he’s made a lifetime of great points

and who’s talking about Sowell the economist anyway ? we’re talking about Sowell on education
He’s a an economist who opined on education and he’s been a favorite of supply siders forever. His ideas are stale.

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Indeed, Thomas….indeed. :lol:
You’re very consistent in your bashing and ridicule of minorities….

It’s very typical of the elitist white liberal racist
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Re: Deserves its own thread

Post by kalm »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:23 am
kalm wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 12:50 pm

He’s a an economist who opined on education and he’s been a favorite of supply siders forever. His ideas are stale.

Image

Indeed, Thomas….indeed. :lol:
You’re very consistent in your bashing and ridicule of minorities….

It’s very typical of the elitist white liberal racist
Sigh…more projection. What makes you think July has anything to do with race? What does that say about you?
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