What a court has decided and what’s right are different issues. I disagree with the court’s interpretation. Especially the current one. I want religion out of government and government out of religion.Winterborn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:26 amExactly. Kalm's question has already been answered by the courts in multiple different jurisdictions.
People do not suddenly turn off their beliefs when going to a job (whether it is a public or private party) and as long as they are going about it in a peaceful non-coercing manner, it doesn't interfere with their duties or carrying out their job functions, voluntary, and are not proselytizing, I have no issues with it.
2023 SCOTUS Rulings
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
What will all of the Democrats who worship big government do?kalm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:51 amWhat a court has decided and what’s right are different issues. I disagree with the court’s interpretation. Especially the current one. I want religion out of government and government out of religion.Winterborn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:26 am
Exactly. Kalm's question has already been answered by the courts in multiple different jurisdictions.
People do not suddenly turn off their beliefs when going to a job (whether it is a public or private party) and as long as they are going about it in a peaceful non-coercing manner, it doesn't interfere with their duties or carrying out their job functions, voluntary, and are not proselytizing, I have no issues with it.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Why do you assume that what you want is also what is right? Isn't that what folks are saying is wrong with politics today - "I'm right, you're wrong, and on top of that, you're evil for being wrong"?kalm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:51 amWhat a court has decided and what’s right are different issues. I disagree with the court’s interpretation. Especially the current one. I want religion out of government and government out of religion.Winterborn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:26 am
Exactly. Kalm's question has already been answered by the courts in multiple different jurisdictions.
People do not suddenly turn off their beliefs when going to a job (whether it is a public or private party) and as long as they are going about it in a peaceful non-coercing manner, it doesn't interfere with their duties or carrying out their job functions, voluntary, and are not proselytizing, I have no issues with it.
As for your perspective on religion and government, I know you don't like precedent when it contradicts what you want, but you'd be going against 235 years of how we've run this government and respected religion. Not saying we can't do something different (we have fixed wrongs, like slavery for instance), just pointing that out.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
I feel secure in my values. Are you saying that you DON’T assume what you want is right?GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:14 amWhy do you assume that what you want is also what is right? Isn't that what folks are saying is wrong with politics today - "I'm right, you're wrong, and on top of that, you're evil for being wrong"?
As for your perspective on religion and government, I know you don't like precedent when it contradicts what you want, but you'd be going against 235 years of how we've run this government and respected religion. Not saying we can't do something different (we have fixed wrongs, like slavery for instance), just pointing that out.
My views on religion have evolved significantly over the last few years in a more accepting way. We as a nation were also intended to evolve. This includes the constitution.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
I take from your verbiage that you think we should have no Chaplains/Priests/Priestesses/Gurus/Mystics/Swami of any belief system involved in any capacity in any of our public entities?kalm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:51 amWhat a court has decided and what’s right are different issues. I disagree with the court’s interpretation. Especially the current one. I want religion out of government and government out of religion.Winterborn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:26 am
Exactly. Kalm's question has already been answered by the courts in multiple different jurisdictions.
People do not suddenly turn off their beliefs when going to a job (whether it is a public or private party) and as long as they are going about it in a peaceful non-coercing manner, it doesn't interfere with their duties or carrying out their job functions, voluntary, and are not proselytizing, I have no issues with it.
Did the police officers do any of the items I mentioned above? The article does not state either way. Do you have evidence that they coerced anybody? Was the prayer event voluntary? Police officers enjoy the same rights the rest of us have with respect to their personal beliefs. Just because they are at a public job, those rights do not go away (which the court is starting to recognizes). There are nuances to holding personal beliefs in those types of positions but you do have the right to hold them.
An example is if heard a police officer listening to a Imam preaching, while being alone in his squad car, and it was loud enough that I could hear it outside his patrol car while on the sidewalk bench reading a book, is that preaching? How about I see officers holding a cookout, where they are serving burgers and bratwurst, and being an avowed vegetarian that practiced animism, I felt psychic or emotional offense allegedly caused by observation of sacrilegious acts to my belief system?
The thing is that the court understands that you cannot divorce the two without limiting peoples rights. Which is why they are trying to court a middle line. See my post above for qualifications. Those apply to Baptists, Satanists, Muslims, etc.
I also find it very curious that members of other religions in that police department were not part of the lawsuit but only outside parties. That hints to me that other members of the police department either didn't have an issue with it or they felt threatened by it enough to not say anything. Until more information is known we will not know for sure if it is a frivolous lawsuit brought by people with too thin of skin or something legitimate.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Complain and prosecute the "atheists" that do not believe in a big government.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
I like to think that I reflect on what I want and if it's right. By no means perfect, but I also do recognize that I'm fallible. It's one of the advantages of being married, my wife reminds me everyday when I do something wrong.kalm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:20 amI feel secure in my values. Are you saying that you DON’T assume what you want is right?GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:14 am
Why do you assume that what you want is also what is right? Isn't that what folks are saying is wrong with politics today - "I'm right, you're wrong, and on top of that, you're evil for being wrong"?
As for your perspective on religion and government, I know you don't like precedent when it contradicts what you want, but you'd be going against 235 years of how we've run this government and respected religion. Not saying we can't do something different (we have fixed wrongs, like slavery for instance), just pointing that out.
My views on religion have evolved significantly over the last few years in a more accepting way. We as a nation were also intended to evolve. This includes the constitution.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Good thing there is a process in place for this.kalm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:20 amI feel secure in my values. Are you saying that you DON’T assume what you want is right?GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:14 am
Why do you assume that what you want is also what is right? Isn't that what folks are saying is wrong with politics today - "I'm right, you're wrong, and on top of that, you're evil for being wrong"?
As for your perspective on religion and government, I know you don't like precedent when it contradicts what you want, but you'd be going against 235 years of how we've run this government and respected religion. Not saying we can't do something different (we have fixed wrongs, like slavery for instance), just pointing that out.
My views on religion have evolved significantly over the last few years in a more accepting way. We as a nation were also intended to evolve. This includes the constitution.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
While I am confident in my beliefs, I don't assume that I'm right. I realize that I could be wrong and I'm open to someone changing my mind.kalm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:20 amI feel secure in my values. Are you saying that you DON’T assume what you want is right?GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:14 am
Why do you assume that what you want is also what is right? Isn't that what folks are saying is wrong with politics today - "I'm right, you're wrong, and on top of that, you're evil for being wrong"?
As for your perspective on religion and government, I know you don't like precedent when it contradicts what you want, but you'd be going against 235 years of how we've run this government and respected religion. Not saying we can't do something different (we have fixed wrongs, like slavery for instance), just pointing that out.
My views on religion have evolved significantly over the last few years in a more accepting way. We as a nation were also intended to evolve. This includes the constitution.
The Constitution has evolved 27 times.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Values are not the same as beliefs.UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:47 pmWhile I am confident in my beliefs, I don't assume that I'm right. I realize that I could be wrong and I'm open to someone changing my mind.kalm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:20 am
I feel secure in my values. Are you saying that you DON’T assume what you want is right?
My views on religion have evolved significantly over the last few years in a more accepting way. We as a nation were also intended to evolve. This includes the constitution.
The Constitution has evolved 27 times.
When was the last time the constitution evolved?
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Values are complicated and aren't necessarily right or wrong. While I'm comfortable with my values I can respect others with differing values but struggle with intolerance (supposed Christians calling LGBTQ+ deviants with mental health issues, supposed liberals who are intolerant of Christians, etc.).
1992.
And if you think it needs to evolve again as Winter posted - "Good thing there is a process in place for this."
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
There are individual values, community values, cultural values, etc. Some are shared, sone are not.UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:40 amValues are complicated and aren't necessarily right or wrong. While I'm comfortable with my values I can respect others with differing values but struggle with intolerance (supposed Christians calling LGBTQ+ deviants with mental health issues, supposed liberals who are intolerant of Christians, etc.).
1992.
And if you think it needs to evolve again as Winter posted - "Good thing there is a process in place for this."
Democracy, limited government, liberty, and states rights seem like no-brainer values.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
They are. Which is why I find it odd that so many vote against them.kalm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:40 amThere are individual values, community values, cultural values, etc. Some are shared, sone are not.UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:40 am
Values are complicated and aren't necessarily right or wrong. While I'm comfortable with my values I can respect others with differing values but struggle with intolerance (supposed Christians calling LGBTQ+ deviants with mental health issues, supposed liberals who are intolerant of Christians, etc.).
1992.
And if you think it needs to evolve again as Winter posted - "Good thing there is a process in place for this."
Democracy, limited government, liberty, and states rights seem like no-brainer values.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Careful Winter. Democracy is bait. kalm's democracy is will of the people, majority rule so a popular vote for POTUS (no Electoral College) and serious changes to the Senate (how can Wyoming have 2 Senators and only 1 Representative). Tyranny of the majority is good.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:53 amThey are. Which is why I find it odd that so many vote against them.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Tyranny exists of the majority and of the minority both. Tyranny is bad regardless, but thanks for speaking for me. How tyrannical of you.UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:27 amCareful Winter. Democracy is bait. kalm's democracy is will of the people, majority rule so a popular vote for POTUS (no Electoral College) and serious changes to the Senate (how can Wyoming have 2 Senators and only 1 Representative). Tyranny of the majority is good.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:53 am
They are. Which is why I find it odd that so many vote against them.
We have a democratic republic which dampens the majority rule part. I’m definitely not for direct democracy. State initiatives are a good example of its pitfalls. Regardless, can we agree that tyranny of the majority and oligarchy are at least similar threats?
Representative numbers should be revisited. I’ve heard persuasive arguments for and against. The moderating effect on the senate is one reason against change.
Our tallest obstacle remains legalized bribery. Fix that and many of these others are neutralized a bit.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Depends on how you define ‘evolved’. If you count the Bill of Rights, all ratified same day, 12/15/1791, as 10 different ‘evolutions’, then yes. If not, then 18 times, or 17 times after the Bill of Rights.UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:47 pmWhile I am confident in my beliefs, I don't assume that I'm right. I realize that I could be wrong and I'm open to someone changing my mind.kalm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:20 am
I feel secure in my values. Are you saying that you DON’T assume what you want is right?
My views on religion have evolved significantly over the last few years in a more accepting way. We as a nation were also intended to evolve. This includes the constitution.
The Constitution has evolved 27 times.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
You are correct. It doesn't distract from my point that the Constitution has evolved though.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
We have a Constitutional Republic..kalm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:29 amTyranny exists of the majority and of the minority both. Tyranny is bad regardless, but thanks for speaking for me. How tyrannical of you.UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:27 am
Careful Winter. Democracy is bait. kalm's democracy is will of the people, majority rule so a popular vote for POTUS (no Electoral College) and serious changes to the Senate (how can Wyoming have 2 Senators and only 1 Representative). Tyranny of the majority is good.
We have a democratic republic which dampens the majority rule part. I’m definitely not for direct democracy. State initiatives are a good example of its pitfalls. Regardless, can we agree that tyranny of the majority and oligarchy are at least similar threats?
Representative numbers should be revisited. I’ve heard persuasive arguments for and against. The moderating effect on the senate is one reason against change.
Our tallest obstacle remains legalized bribery. Fix that and many of these others are neutralized a bit.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Now I have to re-bait my line.UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:27 amCareful Winter. Democracy is bait. kalm's democracy is will of the people, majority rule so a popular vote for POTUS (no Electoral College) and serious changes to the Senate (how can Wyoming have 2 Senators and only 1 Representative). Tyranny of the majority is good.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:53 am
They are. Which is why I find it odd that so many vote against them.
I am well aware of what Kalm's definition of "Democracy" is and what it will lead to. My prison cell jokes are only a bit tongue in cheek.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
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"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
I would vote for you to go to Congress and to start the Constitutional amendment. Just know that I have self imposed term limits.kalm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:29 amTyranny exists of the majority and of the minority both. Tyranny is bad regardless, but thanks for speaking for me. How tyrannical of you.UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:27 am
Careful Winter. Democracy is bait. kalm's democracy is will of the people, majority rule so a popular vote for POTUS (no Electoral College) and serious changes to the Senate (how can Wyoming have 2 Senators and only 1 Representative). Tyranny of the majority is good.
We have a democratic republic which dampens the majority rule part. I’m definitely not for direct democracy. State initiatives are a good example of its pitfalls. Regardless, can we agree that tyranny of the majority and oligarchy are at least similar threats?
Representative numbers should be revisited. I’ve heard persuasive arguments for and against. The moderating effect on the senate is one reason against change.
Our tallest obstacle remains legalized bribery. Fix that and many of these others are neutralized a bit.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Just think about how much fun we'll have between beatings in prison. kalm might even give us an extra half serving of gruel to try and get us to behave.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:31 pmNow I have to re-bait my line.UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:27 am
Careful Winter. Democracy is bait. kalm's democracy is will of the people, majority rule so a popular vote for POTUS (no Electoral College) and serious changes to the Senate (how can Wyoming have 2 Senators and only 1 Representative). Tyranny of the majority is good.
I am well aware of what Kalm's definition of "Democracy" is and what it will lead to. My prison cell jokes are only a bit tongue in cheek.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Or he might take it away because of my singing voice. Then again he may pay me to stop singing. If we ever meet up, I could serenade him and we would find out.UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:44 pmJust think about how much fun we'll have between beatings in prison. kalm might even give us an extra half serving of gruel to try and get us to behave.Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:31 pm
Now I have to re-bait my line.
I am well aware of what Kalm's definition of "Democracy" is and what it will lead to. My prison cell jokes are only a bit tongue in cheek.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf
"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
True. It has evolved because of Amendments, not because of some malarkey about it being a living, breathing document.
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
We're on the same page. The Constitution should be difficult to change so that it isn't shifting back and forth in kneejerk response to short term societal beliefs.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: 2023 SCOTUS Rulings
Well maybe hell is indeed freezing over..
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JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions...But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
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