Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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Attorney General Merrick Garland has assigned the U.S. attorney in Chicago to review documents marked classified that were found at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement in Washington, two sources with knowledge of the inquiry told CBS News. The roughly 10 documents are from President Biden's vice-presidential office at the center, the sources said. CBS News has learned the FBI is also involved in the U.S. attorney's inquiry.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-cent ... =196611442
The classified materials included some top-secret files with the “sensitive compartmented information” designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/politics ... index.html
Last edited by BDKJMU on Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biden’s classified documents

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Re: Biden’s classified documents

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Pot meet kettle:
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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Just more evidence that they are all full of bullcrap.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

Post by JohnStOnge »

i figured someone would start a thread on this but this is obviously a completely different situation than the situation with the Trump thing. Most importantly, there is no evidence that Biden intentionally took the materials nor has Biden resisted returning the materials to the National Archives. Trump OBVIOUSLY took the materials intentionally and OBVIOUSLY resisted returning them. It's unfortunate because it gives Republicans an opportunity to try to deflect from what Trump did. But the two situations are nowhere close to equivalent.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

Post by UNI88 »

JohnStOnge wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:26 pm i figured someone would start a thread on this but this is obviously a completely different situation than the situation with the Trump thing. Most importantly, there is no evidence that Biden intentionally took the materials nor has Biden resisted returning the materials to the National Archives. Trump OBVIOUSLY took the materials intentionally and OBVIOUSLY resisted returning them. It's unfortunate because it gives Republicans an opportunity to try to deflect from what Trump did. But the two situations are nowhere close to equivalent.
Yes, they're different but they're both bad. Biden was negligent and his negligence put American interests and potentially lives at risk.

If CID, 93 or another government employee did something like what Biden did they would be fired and probably prosecuted.

Please, stop with the "yes our side did it but it wasn't as bad as what their side did" arguments. Let's hold people accountable for their wrong doing and negligence regardless of party or position.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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UNI88 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:02 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:26 pm i figured someone would start a thread on this but this is obviously a completely different situation than the situation with the Trump thing. Most importantly, there is no evidence that Biden intentionally took the materials nor has Biden resisted returning the materials to the National Archives. Trump OBVIOUSLY took the materials intentionally and OBVIOUSLY resisted returning them. It's unfortunate because it gives Republicans an opportunity to try to deflect from what Trump did. But the two situations are nowhere close to equivalent.
Yes, they're different but they're both bad. Biden was negligent and his negligence put American interests and potentially lives at risk.

If CID, 93 or another government employee did something like what Biden did they would be fired and probably prosecuted.

Please, stop with the "yes our side did it but it wasn't as bad as what their side did" arguments. Let's hold people accountable for their wrong doing and negligence regardless of party or position.
The big difference I see is that Trump had declass authority as President, while Biden, as VP, did not. We're still waiting, hilariously, for a decision on that one.

Now in regards to Biden, there is no way in hell he packed up those boxes himself. I'm amazed whoever packed up the boxes allowed the documents to go. Shows they don't do a great job either.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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UNI88 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:02 pmIf CID, 93 or another government employee did something like what Biden did they would be fired and probably prosecuted.
This isn't true, as I've seen it happen. It really depends on intent.

At my last company, someone accidentally drove off with an entire construction set for a military installation. It was self-reported, the FBI investigated it, our company had to do some re-training, and that was the end of the story.

People mishandle classified documents all the time. On a side note, there's actually an issue in our government that we "overclassify" too many documents just to be on the safe side, even though classifying those documents isn't really necessary.
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:17 am
UNI88 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:02 pm

Yes, they're different but they're both bad. Biden was negligent and his negligence put American interests and potentially lives at risk.

If CID, 93 or another government employee did something like what Biden did they would be fired and probably prosecuted.

Please, stop with the "yes our side did it but it wasn't as bad as what their side did" arguments. Let's hold people accountable for their wrong doing and negligence regardless of party or position.
The big difference I see is that Trump had declass authority as President, while Biden, as VP, did not. We're still waiting, hilariously, for a decision on that one.

Now in regards to Biden, there is no way in hell he packed up those boxes himself. I'm amazed whoever packed up the boxes allowed the documents to go. Shows they don't do a great job either.
Irrelevant - Trump never declassified anything before he was caught and then it wasn't by SOP. :coffee:

The difference is intent - and one can't help but notice the difference in response between this DOJ and Bill Barr's. :nod:
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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houndawg wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:24 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:17 am

The big difference I see is that Trump had declass authority as President, while Biden, as VP, did not. We're still waiting, hilariously, for a decision on that one.

Now in regards to Biden, there is no way in hell he packed up those boxes himself. I'm amazed whoever packed up the boxes allowed the documents to go. Shows they don't do a great job either.
Irrelevant - Trump never declassified anything before he was caught and then it wasn't by SOP. :coffee:

The difference is intent - and one can't help but notice the difference in response between this DOJ and Bill Barr's. :nod:
You apparently didn't read the other thread. I posted multiple links showing Trump started the process and even had back and forth about redactions.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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JohnStOnge wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:26 pm i figured someone would start a thread on this but this is obviously a completely different situation than the situation with the Trump thing. Most importantly, there is no evidence that Biden intentionally took the materials nor has Biden resisted returning the materials to the National Archives. Trump OBVIOUSLY took the materials intentionally and OBVIOUSLY resisted returning them. It's unfortunate because it gives Republicans an opportunity to try to deflect from what Trump did. But the two situations are nowhere close to equivalent.
And it will be shown that this is true by investigation, and just as with the years long investigations of Hillary Clinton, after the cameras are gone there will be a Republican like Trey Gowdy stating that "there is nothing there".
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:35 am
houndawg wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:24 am

Irrelevant - Trump never declassified anything before he was caught and then it wasn't by SOP. :coffee:

The difference is intent - and one can't help but notice the difference in response between this DOJ and Bill Barr's. :nod:
You apparently didn't read the other thread. I posted multiple links showing Trump started the process and even had back and forth about redactions.
and thereby proving he deliberately removed them before they were declared declassified. :coffee:
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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houndawg wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:53 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:35 am

You apparently didn't read the other thread. I posted multiple links showing Trump started the process and even had back and forth about redactions.
and thereby proving he deliberately removed them before they were declared declassified. :coffee:
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:05 am
houndawg wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:53 am

and thereby proving he deliberately removed them before they were declared declassified. :coffee:
This isn't true. There is an actual declassification process, varying based on the info, which the President can't override. The President isn't some absolute monarch and can't do whatever they want with state secrets. That would be dangerous AF.

Additionally, the Executive Branch can't declassify something the Legislative Branch classified without consultation. And vice-versa.

You know...separation of powers.

Also where is this Constitutional authority the dude is talking about? Please cite the Constitution.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:51 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:05 am

This isn't true. There is an actual declassification process, varying based on the info, which the President can't override. The President isn't some absolute monarch and can't do whatever they want with state secrets. That would be dangerous AF.

Additionally, the Executive Branch can't declassify something the Legislative Branch classified without consultation. And vice-versa.

You know...separation of powers.

Also where is this Constitutional authority the dude is talking about? Please cite the Constitution.
And Trump was going through that process. I gave links in the Trump thread. I don't believe the guy is saying Trump waved a wand and then he was able to mass email them. Of course there is a process to redact certain information.

Why do you think Trump had a SCIF and had them under Secret Service guard? Because the process wasn't completed. The last I heard, they were arguing over further redactions and Trump's lawyers were saying those didn't apply to Trump.

Let me find the link and I'll edit this post to add.

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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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So your argument is that he was going through the process as President, didn't finish in time, so he took home all the classified documents?

That doesn't fly; next time start earlier.

If he accidentally mishandled the information, I'll give him a pass. Sh*t happens, we've all moved before, and lost track of stuff along the way. Had he simply reported it, turned in the docs, and went along his merry way, he'd have gotten some flak but nothing crazy.

But he kept things knowing they are classified, continued to lie about not having the documents, and refused to hand them over. It literally took an FBI raid (approved by a grand jury) to get back the documents which Library of Congress was asking for.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:11 am So your argument is that he was going through the process as President, didn't finish in time, so he took home all the classified documents?

That doesn't fly; next time start earlier.

If he accidentally mishandled the information, I'll give him a pass. Sh*t happens, we've all moved before, and lost track of stuff along the way. Had he simply reported it, turned in the docs, and went along his merry way, he'd have gotten some flak but nothing crazy.

But he kept things knowing they are classified, continued to lie about not having the documents, and refused to hand them over. It literally took an FBI raid (approved by a grand jury) to get back the documents which Library of Congress was asking for.
Next time start earlier? You don't suppose the groups to be affected by having Russia collusion lies exposed dragged their feet in regards to finalizing the declassification.

Once again, Trump declassified the documents and had every right to take them and keep them locked up until the process was finished. You didn't see them leaked anywhere did you?
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Just because you say he had every right to take them, it doesn't mean it's true. Reality eventually catches up (and did).

If he had that right, a grand jury wouldn't give the FBI the go-ahead to raid his residence. Even a panel of fellow Americans said, "No, Donald Trump does not have the right to keep classified documents. Go ahead and get them back."
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:52 am
∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:11 am So your argument is that he was going through the process as President, didn't finish in time, so he took home all the classified documents?

That doesn't fly; next time start earlier.

If he accidentally mishandled the information, I'll give him a pass. Sh*t happens, we've all moved before, and lost track of stuff along the way. Had he simply reported it, turned in the docs, and went along his merry way, he'd have gotten some flak but nothing crazy.

But he kept things knowing they are classified, continued to lie about not having the documents, and refused to hand them over. It literally took an FBI raid (approved by a grand jury) to get back the documents which Library of Congress was asking for.
Next time start earlier? You don't suppose the groups to be affected by having Russia collusion lies exposed dragged their feet in regards to finalizing the declassification.

Once again, Trump declassified the documents and had every right to take them and keep them locked up until the process was finished. You didn't see them leaked anywhere did you?
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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Yep. Let’s see them try to charge Trump now.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:52 am
∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:11 am So your argument is that he was going through the process as President, didn't finish in time, so he took home all the classified documents?

That doesn't fly; next time start earlier.

If he accidentally mishandled the information, I'll give him a pass. Sh*t happens, we've all moved before, and lost track of stuff along the way. Had he simply reported it, turned in the docs, and went along his merry way, he'd have gotten some flak but nothing crazy.

But he kept things knowing they are classified, continued to lie about not having the documents, and refused to hand them over. It literally took an FBI raid (approved by a grand jury) to get back the documents which Library of Congress was asking for.
Next time start earlier? You don't suppose the groups to be affected by having Russia collusion lies exposed dragged their feet in regards to finalizing the declassification.

Once again, Trump declassified the documents and had every right to take them and keep them locked up until the process was finished. You didn't see them leaked anywhere did you?
If he had the authority to declassify documents as POTUS, that authority ended on January 20, 2021. If the process was incomplete on that date then the documents were not declassified and his authority to do so was gone.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:52 am
∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:11 am So your argument is that he was going through the process as President, didn't finish in time, so he took home all the classified documents?

That doesn't fly; next time start earlier.

If he accidentally mishandled the information, I'll give him a pass. Sh*t happens, we've all moved before, and lost track of stuff along the way. Had he simply reported it, turned in the docs, and went along his merry way, he'd have gotten some flak but nothing crazy.

But he kept things knowing they are classified, continued to lie about not having the documents, and refused to hand them over. It literally took an FBI raid (approved by a grand jury) to get back the documents which Library of Congress was asking for.
Next time start earlier? You don't suppose the groups to be affected by having Russia collusion lies exposed dragged their feet in regards to finalizing the declassification.

Once again, Trump declassified the documents and had every right to take them and keep them locked up until the process was finished. You didn't see them leaked anywhere did you?
If he had the authority to declassify documents as POTUS, wouldn't that authority have ended on January 20, 2021. If the process was incomplete on that date then the documents were not declassified and trump's authority to do so was gone.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

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UNI88 wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:23 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:52 am

Next time start earlier? You don't suppose the groups to be affected by having Russia collusion lies exposed dragged their feet in regards to finalizing the declassification.

Once again, Trump declassified the documents and had every right to take them and keep them locked up until the process was finished. You didn't see them leaked anywhere did you?
If he had the authority to declassify documents as POTUS, wouldn't that authority have ended on January 20, 2021. If the process was incomplete on that date then the documents were not declassified and trump's authority to do so was gone.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:09 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:52 am

Next time start earlier? You don't suppose the groups to be affected by having Russia collusion lies exposed dragged their feet in regards to finalizing the declassification.

Once again, Trump declassified the documents and had every right to take them and keep them locked up until the process was finished. You didn't see them leaked anywhere did you?
If he had the authority to declassify documents as POTUS, that authority ended on January 20, 2021. If the process was incomplete on that date then the documents were not declassified and his authority to do so was gone.
True. Now that said, Trump may of had (has) a similar understanding of what the President's power is that the average American thinks it is. The President may issue a EO, but that has to be taken care of by staff/bureaucrats. Who quite easily could have delayed the implementation of that EO as long as possible. (Which is SG point) That does not mean he can declassify papers after he left office and while I do not know the rules of declassification i.e. the step by step process it takes and who signs off at each level, if it is like the other agencies that I have experience working with that authorization to declassify can be stopped at any point in that process. Which is something I doubt Trump understood and thought that once he starts the process, it just goes on.

One of the biggest issue I have with Trump is that him not understanding this process, really limited his effectiveness/incompetence depending on the issue in question. The power lies with the people doing the work, not the politicians. Which is why I am so against broad discretionary powers just assigned to an agency/department that are not beholden to the voters. And that freedom they take full advantage of to push their pet beliefs. I have seen it where you propose or ask something that somebody on that approve chain does not like, and that proposal is just dead.

I admit that I am making some assumptions in the above as I do not have personal experience in this area (declassification of documents), just a more general experience working with other areas of the U.S. government.
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Re: Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

Post by BDKJMU »

JohnStOnge wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:26 pm i figured someone would start a thread on this but this is obviously a completely different situation than the situation with the Trump thing. Most importantly, there is no evidence that Biden intentionally took the materials nor has Biden resisted returning the materials to the National Archives. Trump OBVIOUSLY took the materials intentionally and OBVIOUSLY resisted returning them. It's unfortunate because it gives Republicans an opportunity to try to deflect from what Trump did. But the two situations are nowhere close to equivalent.
Intent isn’t part of the criminal statute.
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