Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.

[HI54UNI]

My tinfoil hat is telling me this is a Dem operation to get Biden off the ticket in 2024.

[SeattleGriz]

My tinfoil hat is telling me this is a Dem operation to get Biden off the ticket in 2024.

Ha! I read this was a brush back pitch to remind Biden who really got him into office.

[GannonFan]

I think with the latest news that more classified documents have been found - whether intentional or not - I'd be ok with President Biden facing impeachment. I know the Senate won't convict him, but we can't have former White House officials keep doing this.

I'd also be ok if he is convicted by the Senate. And if it's found to be intentional, he should face criminal charges.

Trump should definitely face criminal charges, however.

The thing is, I don't really see guys like Trump or Biden getting into the nitty gritty of how these boxes get packed and what's going into the boxes. Sure, I get it that they are ultimately responsible since they're in charge, but these things are happening at a much more granular level and I doubt that we're looking a real nefarious doings by Trump or Biden. Heck, these guys are pretty much doddering old men anymore, I don't think they're even capable of the mental acuity to do what some are accusing them of doing.

But yes, this needs to be cleaned up. I'm sure this has been happening for far longer than just Biden and Trump, and I think you or another poster even made the observation that we classify and print out a whole bunch of stuff that either shouldn't be classified or there shouldn't be hard copied of anyway. Document control at the government level is apparently abysmal. Where's the QA department when you need them?

[∞∞∞]

I think with the latest news that more classified documents have been found - whether intentional or not - I'd be ok with President Biden facing impeachment. I know the Senate won't convict him, but we can't have former White House officials keep doing this.

I'd also be ok if he is convicted by the Senate. And if it's found to be intentional, he should face criminal charges.

Trump should definitely face criminal charges, however.

The thing is, I don't really see guys like Trump or Biden getting into the nitty gritty of how these boxes get packed and what's going into the boxes. Sure, I get it that they are ultimately responsible since they're in charge, but these things are happening at a much more granular level and I doubt that we're looking a real nefarious doings by Trump or Biden. Heck, these guys are pretty much doddering old men anymore, I don't think they're even capable of the mental acuity to do what some are accusing them of doing.

But yes, this needs to be cleaned up. I'm sure this has been happening for far longer than just Biden and Trump, and I think you or another poster even made the observation that we classify and print out a whole bunch of stuff that either shouldn't be classified or there shouldn't be hard copied of anyway. Document control at the government level is apparently abysmal. Where's the QA department when you need them?

I agree.

My issue with Trump's situation is that the guy was being asked for months to return the stuff, and he flat out said no (as a private citizen). At least Biden's team is self-reporting, but if it turns the removals were intentional and Biden knew, then pursue charges as well.

edit: I visited the west wing during Obama's last week. It legitimately looked like a normal person moving: boxes everywhere, cluttered hallways, etc. And yeah, obviously it wasn't Obama and Biden personally packing boxes.

[SeattleGriz]

Oh. It's okay then.

[∞∞∞]

edit: I visited the west wing during Obama's last week. It legitimately looked like a normal person moving: boxes everywhere, cluttered hallways, etc. And yeah, obviously it wasn't Obama and Biden personally packing boxes.

BTW, I took a menu from the White House that day. It was on some boxes so I just put it in my jacket. It's framed in my kitchen now:



Hopefully it's not classified.

[GannonFan]

edit: I visited the west wing during Obama's last week. It legitimately looked like a normal person moving: boxes everywhere, cluttered hallways, etc. And yeah, obviously it wasn't Obama and Biden personally packing boxes.

BTW, I took a menu from the White House that day. It was on some boxes so I just put it in my jacket. It's framed in my kitchen now:



Hopefully it's not classified.

I've always said, that would be one of the best parts of being President - the access they have to high quality food, whenever they want it, would be incredible. Heck, having my own pastry chef on call whenever I'd want would be incredible. That and the ability to get quality seats at any athletic event I want. It's not a bad job.

[GannonFan]

The thing is, I don't really see guys like Trump or Biden getting into the nitty gritty of how these boxes get packed and what's going into the boxes. Sure, I get it that they are ultimately responsible since they're in charge, but these things are happening at a much more granular level and I doubt that we're looking a real nefarious doings by Trump or Biden. Heck, these guys are pretty much doddering old men anymore, I don't think they're even capable of the mental acuity to do what some are accusing them of doing.

But yes, this needs to be cleaned up. I'm sure this has been happening for far longer than just Biden and Trump, and I think you or another poster even made the observation that we classify and print out a whole bunch of stuff that either shouldn't be classified or there shouldn't be hard copied of anyway. Document control at the government level is apparently abysmal. Where's the QA department when you need them?

I agree.

My issue with Trump's situation is that the guy was being asked for months to return the stuff, and he flat out said no (as a private citizen). At least Biden's team is self-reporting, but if it turns the removals were intentional and Biden knew, then pursue charges as well.

edit: I visited the west wing during Obama's last week. It legitimately looked like a normal person moving: boxes everywhere, cluttered hallways, etc. And yeah, obviously it wasn't Obama and Biden personally packing boxes.

Again, I doubt Trump even knew what he had and what he didn't. His people and his lawyers certainly knew more than he did. Again, he's in charge and ultimately responsible, but I doubt he was personally sifting through all those cardboard boxes with a checklist to see what he had and didn't have.

[∞∞∞]

I agree.

My issue with Trump's situation is that the guy was being asked for months to return the stuff, and he flat out said no (as a private citizen). At least Biden's team is self-reporting, but if it turns the removals were intentional and Biden knew, then pursue charges as well.

edit: I visited the west wing during Obama's last week. It legitimately looked like a normal person moving: boxes everywhere, cluttered hallways, etc. And yeah, obviously it wasn't Obama and Biden personally packing boxes.

Again, I doubt Trump even knew what he had and what he didn't. His people and his lawyers certainly knew more than he did. Again, he's in charge and ultimately responsible, but I doubt he was personally sifting through all those cardboard boxes with a checklist to see what he had and didn't have.

I'm with you there, BUT even if he didn't know what the docs were, he knew the Archives were asking for them. He could have easily directed his team to figure it out, but instead he double-downed and said no. Again, as a private citizen.

Remember, there was enough evidence for a grand jury to give the FBI permission to seize the documents.

[UNI88]

Again, I doubt Trump even knew what he had and what he didn't. His people and his lawyers certainly knew more than he did. Again, he's in charge and ultimately responsible, but I doubt he was personally sifting through all those cardboard boxes with a checklist to see what he had and didn't have.

I'm with you there, BUT even if he didn't know what the docs were, he knew the Archives were asking for them. He could have easily directed his team to figure it out, but instead he double-downed and said no. Again, as a private citizen.

Remember, there was enough evidence for a grand jury to give the FBI permission to seize the documents.

One, while I agree that trump didn't personally pack the boxes, I do believe that he gave instructions to pack things he knew were classified because he wanted them. Either as proof of a conspiracy against him or just as collector's items.

Two, whoever did pack those documents up should have either known that they were classified and shouldn't be packed or they didn't have clearance to see the documents and the reality that they had access to them shows a disregard for security which also falls on the POTUS.

[SeattleGriz]

edit: I visited the west wing during Obama's last week. It legitimately looked like a normal person moving: boxes everywhere, cluttered hallways, etc. And yeah, obviously it wasn't Obama and Biden personally packing boxes.

BTW, I took a menu from the White House that day. It was on some boxes so I just put it in my jacket. It's framed in my kitchen now:



Hopefully it's not classified.

As you framed the menu, I'll let you in on a little information. All of my kids received official Whitehouse correspondence welcoming their birth and have the cards framed in their rooms.

It is one of the items you can request to commemorate special moments and my dad requested them. Really unique gift to request for the birth of your friends or family's children.

[kalm]

Garland has appointed a special counsel. Probably the right thing to do.

[GannonFan]

Garland has appointed a special counsel. Probably the right thing to do.

I don't think he really had a choice. He has to proceed with this in the same manner as they have with the Trump missing files. Of course there are differences, but in the end, there are classified documents sitting unprotected in places where they aren't supposed to be. Again, the document control system at the government is pretty ineffective. Obama, Bush, and Clinton must be doing everything possible now to make sure they don't have random boxes sitting around with the Christmas decorations. I think Carter's in the clear, likely anything confidential that long ago has already been declassified.

[BDKJMU]

I'm with you there, BUT even if he didn't know what the docs were, he knew the Archives were asking for them. He could have easily directed his team to figure it out, but instead he double-downed and said no. Again, as a private citizen.

Remember, there was enough evidence for a grand jury to give the FBI permission to seize the documents.

One, while I agree that trump didn't personally pack the boxes, I do believe that he gave instructions to pack things he knew were classified because he wanted them. Either as proof of a conspiracy against him or just as collector's items.

Two, whoever did pack those documents up should have either known that they were classified and shouldn't be packed or they didn't have clearance to see the documents and the reality that they had access to them shows a disregard for security which also falls on the POTUS.

Aren’t a lot ot of those docs at Mar-A-Lago allegedly have to do with the fake Russian collusion CrossFire Hurricane get Trump scandal that the left was doing everything in its power to keep hidden?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/p ... r-n1396930

[HI54UNI]

So now we're up to a 3rd set of classified docs that Biden had.

Also seeing stuff that this is "worse" because he was VP when he took the docs and as VP didn't have the authority to take stuff like the President would have. Anyone know if that is true?

[GannonFan]

So now we're up to a 3rd set of classified docs that Biden had.

Also seeing stuff that this is "worse" because he was VP when he took the docs and as VP didn't have the authority to take stuff like the President would have. Anyone know if that is true?

Well, there are no VP libraries so it's not like with Presidents where they are taking things to store in their libraries once they get built. And VP's of course can't declassify anything so there's that difference as well.

[kalm]

Garland has appointed a special counsel. Probably the right thing to do.

I don't think he really had a choice. He has to proceed with this in the same manner as they have with the Trump missing files. Of course there are differences, but in the end, there are classified documents sitting unprotected in places where they aren't supposed to be. Again, the document control system at the government is pretty ineffective. Obama, Bush, and Clinton must be doing everything possible now to make sure they don't have random boxes sitting around with the Christmas decorations. I think Carter's in the clear, likely anything confidential that long ago has already been declassified.

Yes. But as reminder, Jack Smith was appointed investigate more than just missing documents.

[GannonFan]

I don't think he really had a choice. He has to proceed with this in the same manner as they have with the Trump missing files. Of course there are differences, but in the end, there are classified documents sitting unprotected in places where they aren't supposed to be. Again, the document control system at the government is pretty ineffective. Obama, Bush, and Clinton must be doing everything possible now to make sure they don't have random boxes sitting around with the Christmas decorations. I think Carter's in the clear, likely anything confidential that long ago has already been declassified.

Yes. But as reminder, Jack Smith was appointed investigate more than just missing documents.

Sure, the cooperation angle is the difference between the two, but as the other poster said, another difference is a Vice President with no declassifying powers and a President who did have them while in office. From either side of the partisan aisle, this just doesn't look great for anyone. And they need to rein in Biden talking about it, that Corvette comment is going to be material for years now.

Reading on the BBC, the one thing they haven't really talked much about yet is the timing of when they knew and what they've done since. Apparently this was reported to the National Archives the Friday before the mid-term elections. So you have the obvious squashing of the story until after the elections. But even now, there doesn't appear to be a good handle on what documents are even there, two months after the fact. Like I said before, out document control system just flat out sucks.

[kalm]

Yes. But as reminder, Jack Smith was appointed investigate more than just missing documents.

Sure, the cooperation angle is the difference between the two, but as the other poster said, another difference is a Vice President with no declassifying powers and a President who did have them while in office. From either side of the partisan aisle, this just doesn't look great for anyone. And they need to rein in Biden talking about it, that Corvette comment is going to be material for years now.

Reading on the BBC, the one thing they haven't really talked much about yet is the timing of when they knew and what they've done since. Apparently this was reported to the National Archives the Friday before the mid-term elections. So you have the obvious squashing of the story until after the elections. But even now, there doesn't appear to be a good handle on what documents are even there, two months after the fact. Like I said before, out document control system just flat out sucks.

And the DoJ went silent for 60 days leading up to the mid-terms thus squashing further details of the Jan 6th story.

[GannonFan]

So now we're up to a 3rd set of classified docs that Biden had.

Also seeing stuff that this is "worse" because he was VP when he took the docs and as VP didn't have the authority to take stuff like the President would have. Anyone know if that is true?

I didn't hear 3, just the clarification that there were files in the garage next to the Corvette, and then another file in an adjacent room. Not sure if that means 3 locations since it's still the same house.

[GannonFan]

Sure, the cooperation angle is the difference between the two, but as the other poster said, another difference is a Vice President with no declassifying powers and a President who did have them while in office. From either side of the partisan aisle, this just doesn't look great for anyone. And they need to rein in Biden talking about it, that Corvette comment is going to be material for years now.

Reading on the BBC, the one thing they haven't really talked much about yet is the timing of when they knew and what they've done since. Apparently this was reported to the National Archives the Friday before the mid-term elections. So you have the obvious squashing of the story until after the elections. But even now, there doesn't appear to be a good handle on what documents are even there, two months after the fact. Like I said before, out document control system just flat out sucks.

And the DoJ went silent for 60 days leading up to the mid-terms thus squashing further details of the Jan 6th story.

Apples and oranges. It's not like the Jan 6th story was unknown in the lead-up to the midterms. It was one of the largest issues.

[HI54UNI]

Sure, the cooperation angle is the difference between the two, but as the other poster said, another difference is a Vice President with no declassifying powers and a President who did have them while in office. From either side of the partisan aisle, this just doesn't look great for anyone. And they need to rein in Biden talking about it, that Corvette comment is going to be material for years now.

Reading on the BBC, the one thing they haven't really talked much about yet is the timing of when they knew and what they've done since. Apparently this was reported to the National Archives the Friday before the mid-term elections. So you have the obvious squashing of the story until after the elections. But even now, there doesn't appear to be a good handle on what documents are even there, two months after the fact. Like I said before, out document control system just flat out sucks.

And the DoJ went silent for 60 days leading up to the mid-terms thus squashing further details of the Jan 6th story.

Deflecting much?

[kalm]

And the DoJ went silent for 60 days leading up to the mid-terms thus squashing further details of the Jan 6th story.

Deflecting much?

Not at all. I said it was a good idea. Just providing facts.

Also…post partisan.

[BDKJMU]

So now we're up to a 3rd set of classified docs that Biden had.

Also seeing stuff that this is "worse" because he was VP when he took the docs and as VP didn't have the authority to take stuff like the President would have. Anyone know if that is true?

Well the left’s defense over the last 72 hrs has been ‘But Trump’s is worse’ which doesn’t look to be the case:
1. What you said above.
2. Bidens are in multiple locations.
3. Biden has been illegally keeping/storing these for presumably SIX YEARS since he left the WH in Jan 2017. Trump’s were what, 1.5 years. And where have these docs been over the last 6 years?
4. Biden’s were far less secure (a professor’s office and in a garage) versus locked in a locked storage room in one of the most secure compounds in the world in Mar A Lago.
5. Wasn’t there just one Trump document marked TS/SCI? In Biden’s 1st cache there were apparently multiple. Who knows how many more from cache #2 amd #3 and however many more caches are discovered.

[UNI88]

Deflecting much?

Not at all. I said it was a good idea. Just providing facts.

Also…partisan posting.

FYP