Violent Rhetoric

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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by houndawg »

Baldy wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:29 pm
houndawg wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:20 pm

You should clutch your pearls and recoil in horror while SDQueef convulses reflexively and gasps on about forever wars. :coffee:
This is funny coming from the Drama Grandma who balled himself up in the fetal position because he was convinced that a couple hundred unarmed rednecks were trying to overthrow the country. :lol:
Sore loser Ballsack lending his intellectual heft to the shit-on-the-floor wing of the GOP. :coffee:
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:16 am
Well Flynn is close on his estimate on the Fed agencies and Mark is right about the BLM (not the Bang Local Milfs organization but the Bureau of Land Management).

And a Governor can declare martial law (not war, that is Congressional right) but then if the voters of Mark's district feel that it is a egregious mistake they can vote him out.

Otherwise you and Ron seem made for each other. :thumb: Bet he doesn't have to worry about being censored like the Libs of tik-tok does, even though they are in the same business. :coffee:
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:40 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:16 am
Well Flynn is close on his estimate on the Fed agencies and Mark is right about the BLM (not the Bang Local Milfs organization but the Bureau of Land Management).

And a Governor can declare martial law (not war, that is Congressional right) but then if the voters of Mark's district feel that it is an egregious mistake they can vote him out.

Otherwise you and Ron seem made for each other. :thumb: Bet he doesn't have to worry about being censored like the Libs of tik-tok does, even though they are in the same business. :coffee:
One attacks teachers and children’s hospitals and the other is former Republican operative and judicial board member who attacks MAGA?

I appreciate the Bureau of Land Management. Stewardship of habitat while managing natural resource use and extraction on public lands seems challenging.

Flynn is a nut bag who believes in insurrection (Marshall Law plays a role)… and Q. His brother commands the Pacific fleet. These are not sane people.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

So much irony and lack of cognitive functionality in this article. :rofl: :rofl:

It is almost like the 2020 riots didn't happen. May have to start tuning into Salon more often as it is better than the Babylon Bee.
Violence is central to fascism. It forms its origin myths and is one of the primary ways that fascism asserts itself. The power to engage in acts of violence against designated enemies with near-total impunity is one of the main reasons people join fascist movements. As history makes obvious, once fascists take control of a society they maintain and expand their power through violence.

In an era when the Republican Party, the "conservative" movement and the larger white right have de facto embraced fascism, political violence is a constant threat — and the "culture war" may no longer be largely rhetorical or categorical. Indeed, the struggle over cultural issues are a principal battlefield in the current struggle for American democracy.

There are still too many liberals and progressives who perceive the culture war and its focus on reproductive rights, LGBTQ equality, the role of religion in public life and "identity politics" as somehow being a distraction from "real politics" (largely meaning economic issues). So we repeatedly hear the claim that if the "white working class" understood its real economic interests, it would not support Donald Trump or the Republicans or white supremacy in general. This argument is reductive to the point of being functionally false.

This bit would be funny if not sad as the NYT just had an article bragging about several doctors who are running clinics for kids to "transition" and them bragging how much money was in it. In fact Libs of Tik Tok pointed out exactly what was on one of the clinics websites (screenshots) and what a doctor at another clinic said (video of her speaking at a gathering) and it got their account suspended. We are all responsible for what we speak (and type) and having somebody point our our hypocrisy is never pleasant. Both sides are full of it and it is up to us as the voters to remain educated and hold those in authority responsible for what they say and do.
For example, there's the ridiculous lie that children are being mutilated. It's outright fear-mongering and hatred. The right-wing propagandists and hate-talkers are becoming ever more brazen about directly targeting specific people for violence. Eventually someone is going to walk into one of these hospitals or gender clinics, and they're just going to start killing people. They're going to kill as many people as quickly as they can. One of these terrorists is going to specifically target parents and medical providers. It is almost inevitable.
https://www.salon.com/2022/09/28/trans- ... -targeted/
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:37 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:40 am

Well Flynn is close on his estimate on the Fed agencies and Mark is right about the BLM (not the Bang Local Milfs organization but the Bureau of Land Management).

And a Governor can declare martial law (not war, that is Congressional right) but then if the voters of Mark's district feel that it is an egregious mistake they can vote him out.

Otherwise you and Ron seem made for each other. :thumb: Bet he doesn't have to worry about being censored like the Libs of tik-tok does, even though they are in the same business. :coffee:
One attacks teachers and children’s hospitals and the other is former Republican operative and judicial board member who attacks MAGA?

I appreciate the Bureau of Land Management. Stewardship of habitat while managing natural resource use and extraction on public lands seems challenging.

Flynn is a nut bag who believes in insurrection (Marshall Law plays a role)… and Q. His brother commands the Pacific fleet. These are not sane people.
Who has attacked children's hospitals and teachers (have some evidence to back this up)? If pointing out their hypocrisy and double standards on what they have said is attacking then we are all done for.

Not disagreeing that Flynn is nuts on the insurrection topic, but that doesn't make his comment about the Government agencies wrong (which is exactly what I was speaking towards and even stated). Even a broken clock is right twice a day. and I judge an idea on its merits not who brought it up. :coffee:

The BLM is like every other Government agency, it served it purpose and has long out grown it original mandate. Give the land back to the states and let them handle it. If they want to turn it into a federal park, they can donate the land to the Park Service.
Last edited by Winterborn on Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

I have no problem with pointing out both sides stupidity, as they both have more than enough to be embarrassed about and want us to remain in the dark about. My issue is when one side takes the stance it is better than the other because of "x" and states crafting a narrative around that stance to push their opinion.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am So much irony and lack of cognitive functionality in this article. :rofl: :rofl:

It is almost like the 2020 riots didn't happen. May have to start tuning into Salon more often as it is better than the Babylon Bee.
Violence is central to fascism. It forms its origin myths and is one of the primary ways that fascism asserts itself. The power to engage in acts of violence against designated enemies with near-total impunity is one of the main reasons people join fascist movements. As history makes obvious, once fascists take control of a society they maintain and expand their power through violence.

In an era when the Republican Party, the "conservative" movement and the larger white right have de facto embraced fascism, political violence is a constant threat — and the "culture war" may no longer be largely rhetorical or categorical. Indeed, the struggle over cultural issues are a principal battlefield in the current struggle for American democracy.

There are still too many liberals and progressives who perceive the culture war and its focus on reproductive rights, LGBTQ equality, the role of religion in public life and "identity politics" as somehow being a distraction from "real politics" (largely meaning economic issues). So we repeatedly hear the claim that if the "white working class" understood its real economic interests, it would not support Donald Trump or the Republicans or white supremacy in general. This argument is reductive to the point of being functionally false.

This bit would be funny if not sad as the NYT just had an article bragging about several doctors who are running clinics for kids to "transition" and them bragging how much money was in it. In fact Libs of Tik Tok pointed out exactly what was on one of the clinics websites (screenshots) and what a doctor at another clinic said (video of her speaking at a gathering) and it got their account suspended. We are all responsible for what we speak (and type) and having somebody point our our hypocrisy is never pleasant. Both sides are full of it and it is up to us as the voters to remain educated and hold those in authority responsible for what they say and do.
For example, there's the ridiculous lie that children are being mutilated. It's outright fear-mongering and hatred. The right-wing propagandists and hate-talkers are becoming ever more brazen about directly targeting specific people for violence. Eventually someone is going to walk into one of these hospitals or gender clinics, and they're just going to start killing people. They're going to kill as many people as quickly as they can. One of these terrorists is going to specifically target parents and medical providers. It is almost inevitable.
https://www.salon.com/2022/09/28/trans- ... -targeted/
Is there a source for what’s occurring at the clinics including the actual age of the kids, parental consent, the therapies being used, and the numbers of patients?
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:04 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am So much irony and lack of cognitive functionality in this article. :rofl: :rofl:

It is almost like the 2020 riots didn't happen. May have to start tuning into Salon more often as it is better than the Babylon Bee.




This bit would be funny if not sad as the NYT just had an article bragging about several doctors who are running clinics for kids to "transition" and them bragging how much money was in it. In fact Libs of Tik Tok pointed out exactly what was on one of the clinics websites (screenshots) and what a doctor at another clinic said (video of her speaking at a gathering) and it got their account suspended. We are all responsible for what we speak (and type) and having somebody point our our hypocrisy is never pleasant. Both sides are full of it and it is up to us as the voters to remain educated and hold those in authority responsible for what they say and do.



https://www.salon.com/2022/09/28/trans- ... -targeted/
Is there a source for what’s occurring at the clinics including the actual age of the kids, parental consent, the therapies being used, and the numbers of patients?
The NYT article had them (can't link as it is behind a paywall and I read it via my home vpn but it should be searchable on their website). Hence why I referenced it.

There is also the screen shots and links to the clinics and what was said before they scrubbed their websites (still available via the wayback machine) after Libs of Tik Tok shined a light on it via a twitter. But then it is Twitter and what is good for the Goose isn't good for the Gander on that site.

Feel free to dig, around. If you find something contrary to what I have stated or implied, by all means let me know and I will look at it with an open mind. :thumb:

And before it is misconstrued that I am against somebody transitioning, I am not. What I am against is minors being encouraged or allowed to do it. I have zero problem with an adult wanting to do whatever they want to their body.
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:47 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:37 am

One attacks teachers and children’s hospitals and the other is former Republican operative and judicial board member who attacks MAGA?

I appreciate the Bureau of Land Management. Stewardship of habitat while managing natural resource use and extraction on public lands seems challenging.

Flynn is a nut bag who believes in insurrection (Marshall Law plays a role)… and Q. His brother commands the Pacific fleet. These are not sane people.
Who has attacked children's hospitals and teachers (have some evidence to back this up)? If pointing out their hypocrisy and double standards on what they have said is attacking then we are all done for.

Not disagreeing that Flynn is nuts on the insurrection topic, but that doesn't make his comment about the Government agencies wrong (which is exactly what I was speaking towards and even stated). Even a broken clock is right twice a day. and I judge an idea on its merits not who brought it up. :coffee:

The BLM is like every other Government agency, it served it purpose and has long out grown it original mandate. Give the land back to the states and let them handle it. If they want to turn it into a federal park, they can donate the land to the Park Service.
Libs of TikTok, Tucker, probably a bunch more. The “child” castration allegations are false as I’m guessing most their stuff is. Yes both sides do it but there are instances where one side is worse.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... de-hyster/

It’s none of my damn business what adults do regarding gender related therapies and medical interventions. It’s weird how many like the Libs of TikTok folks are seemingly obsessed by it.

I’ll leave it up to adults, parents, and their medical professionals to deal with these things. Im freedom and science loving like that I guess.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:21 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:04 am

Is there a source for what’s occurring at the clinics including the actual age of the kids, parental consent, the therapies being used, and the numbers of patients?
The NYT article had them (can't link as it is behind a paywall and I read it via my home vpn but it should be searchable on their website). Hence why I referenced it.

There is also the screen shots and links to the clinics and what was said before they scrubbed their websites (still available via the wayback machine) after Libs of Tik Tok shined a light on it via a twitter. But then it is Twitter and what is good for the Goose isn't good for the Gander on that site.

Feel free to dig, around. If you find something contrary to what I have stated or implied, by all means let me know and I will look at it with an open mind. :thumb:

And before it is misconstrued that I am against somebody transitioning, I am not. What I am against is minors being encouraged or allowed to do it. I have zero problem with an adult wanting to do whatever they want to their body.
We’re on the same page with this last paragraph.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:23 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:47 am

Who has attacked children's hospitals and teachers (have some evidence to back this up)? If pointing out their hypocrisy and double standards on what they have said is attacking then we are all done for.

Not disagreeing that Flynn is nuts on the insurrection topic, but that doesn't make his comment about the Government agencies wrong (which is exactly what I was speaking towards and even stated). Even a broken clock is right twice a day. and I judge an idea on its merits not who brought it up. :coffee:

The BLM is like every other Government agency, it served it purpose and has long out grown it original mandate. Give the land back to the states and let them handle it. If they want to turn it into a federal park, they can donate the land to the Park Service.
Libs of TikTok, Tucker, probably a bunch more. The “child” castration allegations are false as I’m guessing most their stuff is. Yes both sides do it but there are instances where one side is worse.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... de-hyster/

It’s none of my damn business what adults do regarding gender related therapies and medical interventions. It’s weird how many like the Libs of TikTok folks are seemingly obsessed by it.

I’ll leave it up to adults, parents, and their medical professionals to deal with these things. Im freedom and science loving like that I guess.
The NYT article specifically discussed breast removal of children around 10 years of age (going off of memory) and it was not for a medical condition. This is a line I differ on (I fully realize the slippery slope it is) and if it is for non-life threatening conditions there needs to be a separate opinion just to make sure it is a) necessary for the life of the child, b) the parents are not pushing for something based on their wants (Female gentile mutilation among certain religions, i.e. some Islam sects).

And that is where we differ, the false (IMHO) equivalency of that one side is worse then the other. In some areas one is worse, just like in others the opposite side is worse. Overall they are both corrupt and need some cleaning house.
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

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Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am So much irony and lack of cognitive functionality in this article. :rofl: :rofl:

It is almost like the 2020 riots didn't happen. May have to start tuning into Salon more often as it is better than the Babylon Bee.
Violence is central to fascism. It forms its origin myths and is one of the primary ways that fascism asserts itself. The power to engage in acts of violence against designated enemies with near-total impunity is one of the main reasons people join fascist movements. As history makes obvious, once fascists take control of a society they maintain and expand their power through violence.

In an era when the Republican Party, the "conservative" movement and the larger white right have de facto embraced fascism, political violence is a constant threat — and the "culture war" may no longer be largely rhetorical or categorical. Indeed, the struggle over cultural issues are a principal battlefield in the current struggle for American democracy.

There are still too many liberals and progressives who perceive the culture war and its focus on reproductive rights, LGBTQ equality, the role of religion in public life and "identity politics" as somehow being a distraction from "real politics" (largely meaning economic issues). So we repeatedly hear the claim that if the "white working class" understood its real economic interests, it would not support Donald Trump or the Republicans or white supremacy in general. This argument is reductive to the point of being functionally false.

This bit would be funny if not sad as the NYT just had an article bragging about several doctors who are running clinics for kids to "transition" and them bragging how much money was in it. In fact Libs of Tik Tok pointed out exactly what was on one of the clinics websites (screenshots) and what a doctor at another clinic said (video of her speaking at a gathering) and it got their account suspended. We are all responsible for what we speak (and type) and having somebody point our our hypocrisy is never pleasant. Both sides are full of it and it is up to us as the voters to remain educated and hold those in authority responsible for what they say and do.
For example, there's the ridiculous lie that children are being mutilated. It's outright fear-mongering and hatred. The right-wing propagandists and hate-talkers are becoming ever more brazen about directly targeting specific people for violence. Eventually someone is going to walk into one of these hospitals or gender clinics, and they're just going to start killing people. They're going to kill as many people as quickly as they can. One of these terrorists is going to specifically target parents and medical providers. It is almost inevitable.
https://www.salon.com/2022/09/28/trans- ... -targeted/
Back in the day, I used to sell pathology services. I don't think I need to tell you how many doctors wanted a cut of the action when all they were doing is removing tissue. They weren't involved in the preparation nor diagnosis.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:23 am

Libs of TikTok, Tucker, probably a bunch more. The “child” castration allegations are false as I’m guessing most their stuff is. Yes both sides do it but there are instances where one side is worse.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... de-hyster/

It’s none of my damn business what adults do regarding gender related therapies and medical interventions. It’s weird how many like the Libs of TikTok folks are seemingly obsessed by it.

I’ll leave it up to adults, parents, and their medical professionals to deal with these things. Im freedom and science loving like that I guess.
The NYT article specifically discussed breast removal of children around 10 years of age (going off of memory) and it was not for a medical condition. This is a line I differ on (I fully realize the slippery slope it is) and if it is for non-life threatening conditions there needs to be a separate opinion just to make sure it is a) necessary for the life of the child, b) the parents are not pushing for something based on their wants (Female gentile mutilation among certain religions, i.e. some Islam sects).

And that is where we differ, the false (IMHO) equivalency of that one side is worse then the other. In some areas one is worse, just like in others the opposite side is worse. Overall they are both corrupt and need some cleaning house.
Yeah…IF breast removal is truly being done on 10 year olds that’s fucked up.

We don’t differ much on false equivalency when facts and reason are presented. Most of our arguments are just perspective based.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:23 am
Libs of TikTok, Tucker, probably a bunch more. The “child” castration allegations are false as I’m guessing most their stuff is. Yes both sides do it but there are instances where one side is worse.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... de-hyster/

It’s none of my damn business what adults do regarding gender related therapies and medical interventions. It’s weird how many like the Libs of TikTok folks are seemingly obsessed by it.

I’ll leave it up to adults, parents, and their medical professionals to deal with these things. Im freedom and science loving like that I guess.
The NYT article specifically discussed breast removal of children around 10 years of age (going off of memory) and it was not for a medical condition. This is a line I differ on (I fully realize the slippery slope it is) and if it is for non-life threatening conditions there needs to be a separate opinion just to make sure it is a) necessary for the life of the child, b) the parents are not pushing for something based on their wants (Female gentile mutilation among certain religions, i.e. some Islam sects).

And that is where we differ, the false (IMHO) equivalency of that one side is worse then the other. In some areas one is worse, just like in others the opposite side is worse. Overall they are both corrupt and need some cleaning house.
As a parent, if my child was clearly uncomfortable in their body and it was obvious that they would be happier as another gender then I would support them. How that support would manifest would depend on their age and my certainty of what would make them happy. No way in hell would I want a 10 y/o's breasts to be removed. But I would consider hormone therapy before they became an adult and possibly before puberty if I was certain that they would be happier as the opposite gender. Call me a child abuser, I don't care. I'm the parent and I will support what I think is best for my child and their happiness. The decision like so many others is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:24 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 am

The NYT article specifically discussed breast removal of children around 10 years of age (going off of memory) and it was not for a medical condition. This is a line I differ on (I fully realize the slippery slope it is) and if it is for non-life threatening conditions there needs to be a separate opinion just to make sure it is a) necessary for the life of the child, b) the parents are not pushing for something based on their wants (Female gentile mutilation among certain religions, i.e. some Islam sects).

And that is where we differ, the false (IMHO) equivalency of that one side is worse then the other. In some areas one is worse, just like in others the opposite side is worse. Overall they are both corrupt and need some cleaning house.
As a parent, if my child was clearly uncomfortable in their body and it was obvious that they would be happier as another gender then I would support them. How that support would manifest would depend on their age and my certainty of what would make them happy. No way in hell would I want a 10 y/o's breasts to be removed. But I would consider hormone therapy before they became an adult and possibly before puberty if I was certain that they would be happier as the opposite gender. Call me a child abuser, I don't care. I'm the parent and I will support what I think is best for my child and their happiness. The decision like so many others is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.
I think the tree of us totally agree with this.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:48 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 am

The NYT article specifically discussed breast removal of children around 10 years of age (going off of memory) and it was not for a medical condition. This is a line I differ on (I fully realize the slippery slope it is) and if it is for non-life threatening conditions there needs to be a separate opinion just to make sure it is a) necessary for the life of the child, b) the parents are not pushing for something based on their wants (Female gentile mutilation among certain religions, i.e. some Islam sects).

And that is where we differ, the false (IMHO) equivalency of that one side is worse then the other. In some areas one is worse, just like in others the opposite side is worse. Overall they are both corrupt and need some cleaning house.
Yeah…IF breast removal is truly being done on 10 year olds that’s fucked up.

We don’t differ much on false equivalency when facts and reason are presented. Most of our arguments are just perspective based.
And that difference of perspective is why I hang around. I like my thought process being challenged in a constructive way. :thumb:
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:44 am
UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:24 am
As a parent, if my child was clearly uncomfortable in their body and it was obvious that they would be happier as another gender then I would support them. How that support would manifest would depend on their age and my certainty of what would make them happy. No way in hell would I want a 10 y/o's breasts to be removed. But I would consider hormone therapy before they became an adult and possibly before puberty if I was certain that they would be happier as the opposite gender. Call me a child abuser, I don't care. I'm the parent and I will support what I think is best for my child and their happiness. The decision like so many others is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.
I think the tree of us totally agree with this.
I would feel the same way about teaching my children that CRT is history. I try to be consistent that way.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:24 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 am

The NYT article specifically discussed breast removal of children around 10 years of age (going off of memory) and it was not for a medical condition. This is a line I differ on (I fully realize the slippery slope it is) and if it is for non-life threatening conditions there needs to be a separate opinion just to make sure it is a) necessary for the life of the child, b) the parents are not pushing for something based on their wants (Female gentile mutilation among certain religions, i.e. some Islam sects).

And that is where we differ, the false (IMHO) equivalency of that one side is worse then the other. In some areas one is worse, just like in others the opposite side is worse. Overall they are both corrupt and need some cleaning house.
As a parent, if my child was clearly uncomfortable in their body and it was obvious that they would be happier as another gender then I would support them. How that support would manifest would depend on their age and my certainty of what would make them happy. No way in hell would I want a 10 y/o's breasts to be removed. But I would consider hormone therapy before they became an adult and possibly before puberty if I was certain that they would be happier as the opposite gender. Call me a child abuser, I don't care. I'm the parent and I will support what I think is best for my child and their happiness. The decision like so many others is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.
I tried to allude to that in my post, but yes, there are a bunch of different things that come into play and no way am I trying to advocate for more government interference. I am trying to work around a line that both respects the child, the parent and the health of society as a whole. Honestly I would love the medical community to police itself and say in these cases, outside opinion is needed. I am not naive enough to think it will work in all cases but at least get it started and start the conversation.

I do not have kids, but if I did, I would want the best for them while balancing out the fact that some decisions are permanent and the fact all of our ideas/thoughts/wishes changed as we mature.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:44 am
UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:24 am

As a parent, if my child was clearly uncomfortable in their body and it was obvious that they would be happier as another gender then I would support them. How that support would manifest would depend on their age and my certainty of what would make them happy. No way in hell would I want a 10 y/o's breasts to be removed. But I would consider hormone therapy before they became an adult and possibly before puberty if I was certain that they would be happier as the opposite gender. Call me a child abuser, I don't care. I'm the parent and I will support what I think is best for my child and their happiness. The decision like so many others is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.
I think the tree of us totally agree with this.
I would "ash" you to fix your post but I get the "heart" of the matter. And while we rarely "evergreen" on all topics I think we see to the root of the issue.
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

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Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:54 am
UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:24 am
As a parent, if my child was clearly uncomfortable in their body and it was obvious that they would be happier as another gender then I would support them. How that support would manifest would depend on their age and my certainty of what would make them happy. No way in hell would I want a 10 y/o's breasts to be removed. But I would consider hormone therapy before they became an adult and possibly before puberty if I was certain that they would be happier as the opposite gender. Call me a child abuser, I don't care. I'm the parent and I will support what I think is best for my child and their happiness. The decision like so many others is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.
I tried to allude to that in my post, but yes, there are a bunch of different things that come into play and no way am I trying to advocate for more government interference. I am trying to work around a line that both respects the child, the parent and the health of society as a whole. Honestly I would love the medical community to police itself and say in these cases, outside opinion is needed. I am not naive enough to think it will work in all cases but at least get it started and start the conversation.

I do not have kids, but if I did, I would want the best for them while balancing out the fact that some decisions are permanent and the fact all of our ideas/thoughts/wishes changed as we mature.
I don't disagree, that is why my support would be based on my level of certainty.

Parents, educators, healthcare professionals government officials and elected politicians are people and people are imperfect and have biases that can influence their decision making. Poor choices will be made and people will be hurt regardless of who drives the decision-making. There is no perfect solution for these types of situations so I default to the parents. Occam's Razor.

I'm also not sure that parents pushing gender change on their children are anymore of a danger than homophobic parents who refuse to accept their gay children or worse, try to have them reprogrammed.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:50 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:44 am

I think the tree of us totally agree with this.
I would feel the same way about teaching my children that CRT is history. I try to be consistent that way.
Good thing is you don’t have to.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:07 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:54 am

I tried to allude to that in my post, but yes, there are a bunch of different things that come into play and no way am I trying to advocate for more government interference. I am trying to work around a line that both respects the child, the parent and the health of society as a whole. Honestly I would love the medical community to police itself and say in these cases, outside opinion is needed. I am not naive enough to think it will work in all cases but at least get it started and start the conversation.

I do not have kids, but if I did, I would want the best for them while balancing out the fact that some decisions are permanent and the fact all of our ideas/thoughts/wishes changed as we mature.
I don't disagree, that is why my support would be based on my level of certainty.

Parents, educators, healthcare professionals government officials and elected politicians are people and people are imperfect and have biases that can influence their decision making. Poor choices will be made and people will be hurt regardless of who drives the decision-making. There is no perfect solution for these types of situations so I default to the parents. Occam's Razor.

I'm also not sure that parents pushing gender change on their children are anymore of a danger than homophobic parents who refuse to accept their gay children or worse, try to have them reprogrammed.
I have no problem with parents being the default and they should be involved in any choice a child of theirs makes. I also think there is less issue with parents making those choices than an outside entity, whoever or whatever that entity may be.

And that is a valid example of the otherside of the same coin. :thumb:
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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

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Re: Violent Rhetoric

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kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:09 am
UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:50 am
I would feel the same way about teaching my children that CRT is history. I try to be consistent that way.
Good thing is you don’t have to.
Yep, my kids are in HS or beyond so I dodged that bullet. I'm grateful they're not in elementary or middle school where I might have to deal with that indoctrination like some parents.
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Re: Violent Rhetoric

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:54 am
kalm wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:09 am

Good thing is you don’t have to.
Yep, my kids are in HS or beyond so I dodged that bullet. I'm grateful they're not in elementary or middle school where I might have to deal with that indoctrination like some parents.
You still wouldn’t have to teach them applying CRT.
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