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houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:03 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:14 pm The working class is focused on and prioritizes things like job security, wages and health care while the woke class is willing to sacrifice those things to fight an ineffective battle against climate change, to blame all society's woes on racism, etc.

..it won't be long until nobody is thinking about anything butclimate change.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:15 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:03 am

..it won't be long until nobody is thinking about anything butclimate change.

I agree that climate change is a problem but we aren't ready to walk away from fossil fuels. We don't get sufficient and consistent enough power from wind and solar to replace fossil fuels. Our grid can't handle weather extremes much less the strain of everyone owning an electric car. The manufacture of electric cars isn't exactly green, the mining/waste they require/create is and will continue to be a problem. We need practical solutions that take into account reality rather than pie-in-the-sky, let's just do it and damn the consequences attempts at solutions.

The poor and the working class will suffer the most if we move forward with significant aspects of the Green New Deal.

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:20 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:15 am

I agree that climate change is a problem but we aren't ready to walk away from fossil fuels. We don't get sufficient and consistent enough power from wind and solar to replace fossil fuels. Our grid can't handle weather extremes much less the strain of everyone owning an electric car. The manufacture of electric cars isn't exactly green, the mining/waste they require/create is and will continue to be a problem. We need practical solutions that take into account reality rather than pie-in-the-sky, let's just do it and damn the consequences attempts at solutions.

The poor and the working class will suffer the most if we move forward with significant aspects of the Green New Deal.

The poor and the working class will always suffer most regardless of whatever plan is being discussed.

Nuclear power has to be part of the dscussion now - since reactors can produce waste that isn't weaponizable the potential exists for smaller decentralized plants; first we need a modernized grid of course, and the waste is still an issue, but the "advantage" of nuclear waste is that it can be constrained to a limited physical space instead of being released into the atmosphere. Throw in decentralized nukes and and we'd be able to put a major dent in oil as a generator of electricity if not eliminate it altogether. Maybe even eliminate the need for wind power and its dilemma of what to do with spent turbine blades. Since we've already passed the tipping point this argument is only academic, but once we get to a point where its so bad that even shareholders profits have to take a backseat we'll be wanting to throw everything we have at the lost cause for appearances sake and the above would be a good way start.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:13 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:20 am

The poor and the working class will always suffer most regardless of whatever plan is being discussed.

Nuclear power has to be part of the dscussion now - since reactors can produce waste that isn't weaponizable the potential exists for smaller decentralized plants; first we need a modernized grid of course, and the waste is still an issue, but the "advantage" of nuclear waste is that it can be constrained to a limited physical space instead of being released into the atmosphere. Throw in decentralized nukes and and we'd be able to put a major dent in oil as a generator of electricity if not eliminate it altogether. Maybe even eliminate the need for wind power and its dilemma of what to do with spent turbine blades. Since we've already passed the tipping point this argument is only academic, but once we get to a point where its so bad that even shareholders profits have to take a backseat we'll be wanting to throw everything we have at the lost cause for appearances sake and the above would be a good way start.

Good luck getting that agenda past the squad.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:13 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:20 am

The poor and the working class will always suffer most regardless of whatever plan is being discussed.

Nuclear power has to be part of the dscussion now - since reactors can produce waste that isn't weaponizable the potential exists for smaller decentralized plants; first we need a modernized grid of course, and the waste is still an issue, but the "advantage" of nuclear waste is that it can be constrained to a limited physical space instead of being released into the atmosphere. Throw in decentralized nukes and and we'd be able to put a major dent in oil as a generator of electricity if not eliminate it altogether. Maybe even eliminate the need for wind power and its dilemma of what to do with spent turbine blades. Since we've already passed the tipping point this argument is only academic, but once we get to a point where its so bad that even shareholders profits have to take a backseat we'll be wanting to throw everything we have at the lost cause for appearances sake and the above would be a good way start.

Good luck getting that agenda past the squad.

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:20 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:15 am

I agree that climate change is a problem but we aren't ready to walk away from fossil fuels. We don't get sufficient and consistent enough power from wind and solar to replace fossil fuels. Our grid can't handle weather extremes much less the strain of everyone owning an electric car. The manufacture of electric cars isn't exactly green, the mining/waste they require/create is and will continue to be a problem. We need practical solutions that take into account reality rather than pie-in-the-sky, let's just do it and damn the consequences attempts at solutions.

The poor and the working class will suffer the most if we move forward with significant aspects of the Green New Deal.

The poor and the working class will always suffer most regardless of whatever plan is being discussed.

Nuclear power has to be part of the dscussion now - since reactors can produce waste that isn't weaponizable the potential exists for smaller decentralized plants; first we need a modernized grid of course, and the waste is still an issue, but the "advantage" of nuclear waste is that it can be constrained to a limited physical space instead of being released into the atmosphere. Throw in decentralized nukes and and we'd be able to put a major dent in oil as a generator of electricity if not eliminate it altogether. Maybe even eliminate the need for wind power and its dilemma of what to do with spent turbine blades. Since we've already passed the tipping point this argument is only academic, but once we get to a point where its so bad that even shareholders profits have to take a backseat we'll be wanting to throw everything we have at the lost cause for appearances sake and the above would be a good way start.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:45 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:20 am

The poor and the working class will always suffer most regardless of whatever plan is being discussed.

Nuclear power has to be part of the dscussion now - since reactors can produce waste that isn't weaponizable the potential exists for smaller decentralized plants; first we need a modernized grid of course, and the waste is still an issue, but the "advantage" of nuclear waste is that it can be constrained to a limited physical space instead of being released into the atmosphere. Throw in decentralized nukes and and we'd be able to put a major dent in oil as a generator of electricity if not eliminate it altogether. Maybe even eliminate the need for wind power and its dilemma of what to do with spent turbine blades. Since we've already passed the tipping point this argument is only academic, but once we get to a point where its so bad that even shareholders profits have to take a backseat we'll be wanting to throw everything we have at the lost cause for appearances sake and the above would be a good way start.

Very little oil is used to generate electricity. But other than that I agree.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:07 pm

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:45 pm

Very little oil is used to generate electricity. But other than that I agree.

Really? How much oil is used to mine, smelt, mold, ship, install and maintain solar panels? Or windmills? Or all the parts involved in hydroelectric or coal plants? If you’re just talking about the ACTUAL generation portion of the lifecycle, then yeah, maybe. But in reality a shitload of oil/petroleum products are used to generate electricity.

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:34 am Former Illinois Rep, Joe Walsh would fit in nicely here.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:00 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:07 pm

Really? How much oil is used to mine, smelt, mold, ship, install and maintain solar panels? Or windmills? Or all the parts involved in hydroelectric or coal plants? If you’re just talking about the ACTUAL generation portion of the lifecycle, then yeah, maybe. But in reality a shitload of oil/petroleum products are used to generate electricity.

He said generator of electricity, not supporting the generation of electricity.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:17 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:22 am Andrew Yang believes in a basic universal income.

NON STARTER for me.

Come on. Even though its failed everywhere its been tried, they just need to do it right.

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:14 pm

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:17 am
Come on. Even though its failed everywhere its been tried, they just need to do it right.

It hasn't failed yet in Switzerland.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:35 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:14 pm

It hasn't failed yet in Switzerland.

Great. Decline our role as the world police, occupy only the US with our military and use that money for social programs.

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:14 pm

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:17 am
Come on. Even though its failed everywhere its been tried, they just need to do it right.

It hasn't failed yet in Switzerland.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:35 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:14 pm

It hasn't failed yet in Switzerland.

Great. Declare our neutrality, disband the military and use that money for social programs.

Baldy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:31 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:14 pm

It hasn't failed yet in Switzerland.

That's probably because Switzerland doesn't have it.

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:19 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:35 pm

Great. Declare our neutrality, disband the military and use that money for social programs.

Obviously the logical extension of my comment.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:30 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:19 am

Obviously the logical extension of my comment.

Well it's the only way a country can afford it. Can't be the world's policeman AND give away free shit to the lazy people. It's one or the other, pal.