Student Debt Forgiveness

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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

Winterborn wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:32 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 6:50 am

Huh? Europe? There's no comparison today between the top Universities there and here, and Europe is only getting worse. While our colleges are making Gordon Gekko proud and squeezing every last penny they can get from students and the US government, they are still far and away the best option out there when it comes to that level of education.
Charlie Sheen was in that movie if memory serves me correct.
He was indeed. Although Michael Douglas was Gordon. :coffee:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:48 am
Winterborn wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:32 am

Charlie Sheen was in that movie if memory serves me correct.
He was indeed. Although Michael Douglas was Gordon. :coffee:
And when government gets entwined in the corporate greed, it’s called fascism.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:50 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:48 am
He was indeed. Although Michael Douglas was Gordon. :coffee:
And when government gets entwined in the corporate greed, it’s called fascism.
And when government replaces corporate greed with its own, it’s called socialism. :coffee: :kisswink:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:01 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:50 am

And when government gets entwined in the corporate greed, it’s called fascism.
And when government replaces corporate greed with its own, it’s called socialism. :coffee: :kisswink:
Correct. Greed is a human tendency regardless of system. That’s why you actually need a little government. The market rewards greed.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:08 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:01 am
And when government replaces corporate greed with its own, it’s called socialism. :coffee: :kisswink:
Correct. Greed is a human tendency regardless of system. That’s why you actually need a little government. The market rewards greed.
We agree. And it's why capitalism > socialism. Despite its warts, with capitalism, greed produces products and innovations of value. With socialism, greed produces bureaucracy and breadlines. :coffee:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:17 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:08 am

Correct. Greed is a human tendency regardless of system. That’s why you actually need a little government. The market rewards greed.
We agree. And it's why capitalism > socialism. Despite its warts, with capitalism, greed produces products and innovations of value. With socialism, greed produces bureaucracy and breadlines. :coffee:
Well regulated capitalism including social welfare is superior. I agree.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:45 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:17 am

We agree. And it's why capitalism > socialism. Despite its warts, with capitalism, greed produces products and innovations of value. With socialism, greed produces bureaucracy and breadlines. :coffee:
Well regulated capitalism including social welfare is superior. I agree.
Considering "well regulated" and "social welfare" could be anything and everything, you've really pinned yourself down to a position there, didn't you? :rofl:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:58 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:45 am

Well regulated capitalism including social welfare is superior. I agree.
Considering "well regulated" and "social welfare" could be anything and everything, you've really pinned yourself down to a position there, didn't you? :rofl:
If you’d like specifics, I can help you out. For a small fee of course.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:10 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:58 am
Considering "well regulated" and "social welfare" could be anything and everything, you've really pinned yourself down to a position there, didn't you? :rofl:
If you’d like specifics, I can help you out. For a small fee of course.
Capitalist pig! I'm telling Bernie and AOChe that you're oppressing Ganny. :kisswink:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:12 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 10:41 am Government forgiveness of student loan debt is the predictable, ultimate conclusion of government's foray into guaranteed student lending.

Everything they touch turns to shit.

Still waiting on that list of things the government does well/better.
I dare you to show me an organization that wastes more time and money, YoY. Go ahead, show me. The US is #1 here. Nobody wastes money better than the US Government.

The DoD has 8 Departments with the same job - look for POWs and MIAs.
Lol that’s nothing. A list from 2009, 50 examples of govt waste, and the below is just counted as one example (#6 of 50).
6. Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs.
https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spe ... ment-waste
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:45 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:12 am

I dare you to show me an organization that wastes more time and money, YoY. Go ahead, show me. The US is #1 here. Nobody wastes money better than the US Government.

The DoD has 8 Departments with the same job - look for POWs and MIAs.
Lol that’s nothing. A list from 2009, 50 examples of govt waste, and the below is just counted as one example (#6 of 50).
6. Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs.
https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spe ... ment-waste
Well it's 1 example so... :roll:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:17 am
BDKJMU wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:45 am
Lol that’s nothing. A list from 2009, 50 examples of govt waste, and the below is just counted as one example (#6 of 50).

https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spe ... ment-waste
Well it's 1 example so... :roll:
His point, I believe, was that 8 departments was nothing compared to some of the other areas of overlap.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:45 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:12 am

I dare you to show me an organization that wastes more time and money, YoY. Go ahead, show me. The US is #1 here. Nobody wastes money better than the US Government.

The DoD has 8 Departments with the same job - look for POWs and MIAs.
Lol that’s nothing. A list from 2009, 50 examples of govt waste, and the below is just counted as one example (#6 of 50).
6. Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs.
https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spe ... ment-waste

Did it show how many programs serve the military or Honeland Security or EPA clean up, or the forest Service?
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by SDHornet »

The student loan debt problem is easy to solve. Just make the loans eligible for bankruptcy, yeah suddenly banks won't lend to those gender studies students, darn. I also like the idea of putting the schools on the hook for them. Hell, most of them have endowments that can back the loans.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Ibanez »

SDHornet wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:57 pm The student loan debt problem is easy to solve. Just make the loans eligible for bankruptcy, yeah suddenly banks won't lend to those gender studies students, darn. I also like the idea of putting the schools on the hook for them. Hell, most of them have endowments that can back the loans.
Yeah..but Biden made it near impossible to discharge student loans in bankruptcy. :lol:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

SDHornet wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:57 pm The student loan debt problem is easy to solve. Just make the loans eligible for bankruptcy, yeah suddenly banks won't lend to those gender studies students, darn. I also like the idea of putting the schools on the hook for them. Hell, most of them have endowments that can back the loans.
Kind of defeats the entire concept of “government GUARANTEED” student loans….guess the ol’ Gov guarantee ain’t what it used to be…
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

So would Biden using an EO to cancel student loan debt withstand legal challenges?
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

BDKJMU wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:28 am So would Biden using an EO to cancel student loan debt withstand legal challenges?
I don't think it would. Congress never granted the President, Biden or others, that kind of power. It would be an awful mess as that thing winds its way through the courts as well. But hey, if economic conditions keep getting worse, what's one more thing to pile on with? :ohno:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:57 pm The student loan debt problem is easy to solve. Just make the loans eligible for bankruptcy, yeah suddenly banks won't lend to those gender studies students, darn. I also like the idea of putting the schools on the hook for them. Hell, most of them have endowments that can back the loans.
:nod:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:18 pm
SDHornet wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:57 pm The student loan debt problem is easy to solve. Just make the loans eligible for bankruptcy, yeah suddenly banks won't lend to those gender studies students, darn. I also like the idea of putting the schools on the hook for them. Hell, most of them have endowments that can back the loans.
:nod:
On the surface, sure, that is the easiest way going forward. Even the bankruptcy part, if people think they can't pay off the debts. But there's no way that, once a whole swath of kids, and I'm sure there will be a good number of minority kids in that grouping, can't get student loans because they are seen as bad lending risks or because they'll be majoring in something the banks will deem as not loan-worthy, that we won't be swamped with lawsuits declaring discrimination in lending practices.

One good outcome of this, though, would be the shuttering of a good number of colleges and universities. There are plenty of schools out there that don't really add a lot and are just barely hanging on. Time to close them up. Of course, this could mean some HBCU's bite the bullet too, so I'm sure that will be controversial. Nothing is ever easy. :coffee:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Ibanez »

GannonFan wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:29 am
BDKJMU wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:28 am So would Biden using an EO to cancel student loan debt withstand legal challenges?
I don't think it would. Congress never granted the President, Biden or others, that kind of power. It would be an awful mess as that thing winds its way through the courts as well. But hey, if economic conditions keep getting worse, what's one more thing to pile on with? :ohno:
I think you're right but has Congress said anything about the PResident pausing payments? Pausing and cancelling aren't the same thing but it's the same action - an executive decision on repayment.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by SeattleGriz »

Ibanez wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:54 pm
GannonFan wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:29 am

I don't think it would. Congress never granted the President, Biden or others, that kind of power. It would be an awful mess as that thing winds its way through the courts as well. But hey, if economic conditions keep getting worse, what's one more thing to pile on with? :ohno:
I think you're right but has Congress said anything about the PResident pausing payments? Pausing and cancelling aren't the same thing but it's the same action - an executive decision on repayment.
I'm confused. Biden says the economy is stronger than ever, but apparently it's not strong enough for people to pay back loans? Not looking for a reply, just stating an obvious.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 6:50 am
houndawg wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:37 am

No - in 10 years everybody will be sending their kids to Europe to be educated better at much lower cost.
Huh? Europe? There's no comparison today between the top Universities there and here, and Europe is only getting worse. While our colleges are making Gordon Gekko proud and squeezing every last penny they can get from students and the US government, they are still far and away the best option out there when it comes to that level of education.
Really? Where did you attend college in Europe?
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

GannonFan wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:29 am
BDKJMU wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:28 am So would Biden using an EO to cancel student loan debt withstand legal challenges?
I don't think it would. Congress never granted the President, Biden or others, that kind of power. It would be an awful mess as that thing winds its way through the courts as well. But hey, if economic conditions keep getting worse, what's one more thing to pile on with? :ohno:
So Biden waives the 10k. That would be seem as income, no, with income taxes having to be paid on it. If someone gives you 10k, and says nevermind on paying it back, that is income.

Meanwhile a whole host of legal challenges are filed, it makes its way through the courts, and in the next year or 2, or maybe after Biden is out of office, fed courts (and eventually probably SCOTUS) rule that the POTUS didn’t have the authority to waive the debt, and the people are back on the hook for the 10k + interest. But then then the IRS has to refund them the taxes paid on the 10k. What a mess.
Last edited by BDKJMU on Thu May 05, 2022 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

Wouldn’t surprise me if Bidem waived it though, because they clearly have poor legal counsel at the WH, due to the actions they keep doing that keep getting overturned by the courts. Ex- the CDC eviction moratorium. Clearly unconstitutional as multiple courts, including SCOTUS ruled. but the WH legal counsel must have advised it was legal, otherwise you’d think they (CDC taking marching orders from the WH) wouldn’t have done it.
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