Student Debt Forgiveness

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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:06 am
GannonFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:38 am

There's a difference between shrinking away from spending and the new progressive economic model of there's no limit to what government can spend. Certainly there's been a belief, hopefully now disproven, that we can spend at the levels of a war or a global pandemic, and spend at those levels forever, without any negative consequences. Federal government spending never even approached half of its peak during WW2 until sometime around 1980. The reason we're in this inflationary tsunami right now, and perhaps another recession, is because we couldn't stop spending even when the crisis was over - we spent almost as much in 2021 as we did in 2020 when it was clear that the COVID issues were not the economic issues they were early in 2020, and heck, the 2022 spending is still drastically higher historically as well. Sure, the Fed is plenty complicit in this as well as they sat on interest rates forever, but there's no denying that government spending went way beyond what the circumstances called for and now we are experiencing the negative consequences of that significant over-supply of money into the market.
Eh…there are many causes. Remember the unpaid for Bush and Trump tax cuts that Democratic administrations left alone?

Many causes. We choose neoliberalism time and again while expecting different results.
"Many causes" for today's inflation? Even going back to Bush tax cuts and neoliberalism? Oh, please, you didn't think you'd just slip that in and have that be unchallenged? Sure, those things have their own consequences, but they have absolutely zero to do with the inflation that we're seeing today. Inflation is always a money supply problem, and we can easily track that to the profligate government expenditures at the end of Trump's lame duck period and even more so in sheer numbers the start of Biden's, as well as the incredibly slow to respond Fed actions to leave interest rates at basically zero until just very recently. Couple those with the incoming administration's very public goal of eliminating the fossil fuel industry going forward and we have, in retrospect, a very clear chain of events that has led to today's rampant inflation, record prices at the gas pump, and very likely a technical recession when the next GDP numbers come out after June. There's no need to go back 20 years to pin the blame for this one, or even an economic model that people are saying we're not even using at the moment. The causes are very clear and are right in front of us. :coffee:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:51 am
kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:06 am

Eh…there are many causes. Remember the unpaid for Bush and Trump tax cuts that Democratic administrations left alone?

Many causes. We choose neoliberalism time and again while expecting different results.
"Many causes" for today's inflation? Even going back to Bush tax cuts and neoliberalism? Oh, please, you didn't think you'd just slip that in and have that be unchallenged? Sure, those things have their own consequences, but they have absolutely zero to do with the inflation that we're seeing today. Inflation is always a money supply problem, and we can easily track that to the profligate government expenditures at the end of Trump's lame duck period and even more so in sheer numbers the start of Biden's, as well as the incredibly slow to respond Fed actions to leave interest rates at basically zero until just very recently. Couple those with the incoming administration's very public goal of eliminating the fossil fuel industry going forward and we have, in retrospect, a very clear chain of events that has led to today's rampant inflation, record prices at the gas pump, and very likely a technical recession when the next GDP numbers come out after June. There's no need to go back 20 years to pin the blame for this one, or even an economic model that people are saying we're not even using at the moment. The causes are very clear and are right in front of us. :coffee:
20 years? Christ we can go back even further than that. You don’t think tax cuts effect the value/supply of money or how it’s allocated within the private sector? Okey Dokey.

There’s no simple explanation within the complexity of global economies. I’m sure you can provide a robust explanation for how it was expected or unavoidable that fits your narrative. I can do the same with mine.

Let’s save some ink and paper instead. (Plus that’s good for the environment which also plays a strategic role you often disregard :) )
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:29 am
GannonFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:51 am

"Many causes" for today's inflation? Even going back to Bush tax cuts and neoliberalism? Oh, please, you didn't think you'd just slip that in and have that be unchallenged? Sure, those things have their own consequences, but they have absolutely zero to do with the inflation that we're seeing today. Inflation is always a money supply problem, and we can easily track that to the profligate government expenditures at the end of Trump's lame duck period and even more so in sheer numbers the start of Biden's, as well as the incredibly slow to respond Fed actions to leave interest rates at basically zero until just very recently. Couple those with the incoming administration's very public goal of eliminating the fossil fuel industry going forward and we have, in retrospect, a very clear chain of events that has led to today's rampant inflation, record prices at the gas pump, and very likely a technical recession when the next GDP numbers come out after June. There's no need to go back 20 years to pin the blame for this one, or even an economic model that people are saying we're not even using at the moment. The causes are very clear and are right in front of us. :coffee:
20 years? Christ we can go back even further than that. You don’t think tax cuts effect the value/supply of money or how it’s allocated within the private sector? Okey Dokey.

There’s no simple explanation within the complexity of global economies. I’m sure you can provide a robust explanation for how it was expected or unavoidable that fits your narrative. I can do the same with mine.

Let’s save some ink and paper instead. (Plus that’s good for the environment which also plays a strategic role you often disregard :) )
So it's all just a mystery? Defies all rational thought? Come on, that's silly. Bush didn't cause the inflation we're seeing today. Clinton didn't either. Nor Reagan, nor Carter, nor any number of previous Presidents from either party. Stop looking for mythical reasons, stop reading the tea leaves, and stop dumping chicken bones on the ground and looking at what they tell you. Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods, and we have plenty of obvious reasons why we have so much money and why we have so few goods. This isn't rocket science here, and it's not even difficult economic theory. This is very short term in terms of how we got here, so that really narrows down the culprits. This isn't a problem that's been brewing for years, it little came into being as a result of the pandemic and how we responded to it, especially after the pandemic began to wane. But hey, good try on pulling out Presidential dinosaurs and completely unrelated economic theories. This is literally an Occam's Razor moment. Keep it simple. :thumb:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:46 am
kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:29 am

20 years? Christ we can go back even further than that. You don’t think tax cuts effect the value/supply of money or how it’s allocated within the private sector? Okey Dokey.

There’s no simple explanation within the complexity of global economies. I’m sure you can provide a robust explanation for how it was expected or unavoidable that fits your narrative. I can do the same with mine.

Let’s save some ink and paper instead. (Plus that’s good for the environment which also plays a strategic role you often disregard :) )
So it's all just a mystery? Defies all rational thought? Come on, that's silly. Bush didn't cause the inflation we're seeing today. Clinton didn't either. Nor Reagan, nor Carter, nor any number of previous Presidents from either party. Stop looking for mythical reasons, stop reading the tea leaves, and stop dumping chicken bones on the ground and looking at what they tell you. Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods, and we have plenty of obvious reasons why we have so much money and why we have so few goods. This isn't rocket science here, and it's not even difficult economic theory. This is very short term in terms of how we got here, so that really narrows down the culprits. This isn't a problem that's been brewing for years, it little came into being as a result of the pandemic and how we responded to it, especially after the pandemic began to wane. But hey, good try on pulling out Presidential dinosaurs and completely unrelated economic theories. This is literally an Occam's Razor moment. Keep it simple. :thumb:
I’ll let you have the last word…for the sake of the trees and ink.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:57 am
GannonFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:46 am

So it's all just a mystery? Defies all rational thought? Come on, that's silly. Bush didn't cause the inflation we're seeing today. Clinton didn't either. Nor Reagan, nor Carter, nor any number of previous Presidents from either party. Stop looking for mythical reasons, stop reading the tea leaves, and stop dumping chicken bones on the ground and looking at what they tell you. Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods, and we have plenty of obvious reasons why we have so much money and why we have so few goods. This isn't rocket science here, and it's not even difficult economic theory. This is very short term in terms of how we got here, so that really narrows down the culprits. This isn't a problem that's been brewing for years, it little came into being as a result of the pandemic and how we responded to it, especially after the pandemic began to wane. But hey, good try on pulling out Presidential dinosaurs and completely unrelated economic theories. This is literally an Occam's Razor moment. Keep it simple. :thumb:
I’ll let you have the last word…for the sake of the trees and ink.
Bummer, I was so looking forward to your robust explanation of global economies and how Bush is directly responsible for today's inflation. Promised to be a real barn burner, I'm sure. :rofl:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:57 am
GannonFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:46 am

So it's all just a mystery? Defies all rational thought? Come on, that's silly. Bush didn't cause the inflation we're seeing today. Clinton didn't either. Nor Reagan, nor Carter, nor any number of previous Presidents from either party. Stop looking for mythical reasons, stop reading the tea leaves, and stop dumping chicken bones on the ground and looking at what they tell you. Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods, and we have plenty of obvious reasons why we have so much money and why we have so few goods. This isn't rocket science here, and it's not even difficult economic theory. This is very short term in terms of how we got here, so that really narrows down the culprits. This isn't a problem that's been brewing for years, it little came into being as a result of the pandemic and how we responded to it, especially after the pandemic began to wane. But hey, good try on pulling out Presidential dinosaurs and completely unrelated economic theories. This is literally an Occam's Razor moment. Keep it simple. :thumb:
I’ll let you have the last word…for the sake of the trees and ink.
Translation: “I just got fucking PWNED and have no response.” :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:21 pm
kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:57 am

I’ll let you have the last word…for the sake of the trees and ink.
Translation: “I just got fucking PWNED and have no response.” :rofl: :rofl:
Sure, Sonny Jim, go with that if you’d like.

Yawn.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:05 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:21 pm

Translation: “I just got fucking PWNED and have no response.” :rofl: :rofl:
Sure, Sonny Jim, go with that if you’d like.

Yawn.
Blaming Bush for today’s inflation was a densedawg intel level flyby….and your unwillingness to debate the issue once confronted confirms it. You two may be the same poster. :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:18 pm
kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:05 pm

Sure, Sonny Jim, go with that if you’d like.

Yawn.
Blaming Bush for today’s inflation was a densedawg intel level flyby….and your unwillingness to debate the issue once confronted confirms it. You two may be the same poster. :coffee: :coffee:
This exactly why. ^

Dumbing down what I said to blaming Bush for the current inflationary crisis shows an unwillingness to debate the issue in any meaningful way.

:nod:

Again…yawn.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:30 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:18 pm

Blaming Bush for today’s inflation was a densedawg intel level flyby….and your unwillingness to debate the issue once confronted confirms it. You two may be the same poster. :coffee: :coffee:
This exactly why. ^

Dumbing down what I said to blaming Bush for the current inflationary crisis shows an unwillingness to debate the issue in any meaningful way.

:nod:

Again…yawn.
You blamed bush’s tax cuts. That’s a gross oversimplification of a complex problem that Trump had well under control. But I can assure you, something that happened 20 years ago did NOT impact gas prices tripling in 8 months.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:32 pm
kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:30 pm

This exactly why. ^

Dumbing down what I said to blaming Bush for the current inflationary crisis shows an unwillingness to debate the issue in any meaningful way.

:nod:

Again…yawn.
You blamed bush’s tax cuts. That’s a gross oversimplification of a complex problem that Trump had well under control. But I can assure you, something that happened 20 years ago did NOT impact gas prices tripling in 8 months.
Go back and read my post(s) again on the topic. It’s ok, take all of the time you need. :thumb:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:32 pm
kalm wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:30 pm
This exactly why. ^

Dumbing down what I said to blaming Bush for the current inflationary crisis shows an unwillingness to debate the issue in any meaningful way.

:nod:

Again…yawn.
You blamed bush’s tax cuts. That’s a gross oversimplification of a complex problem that Trump had well under control. But I can assure you, something that happened 20 years ago did NOT impact gas prices tripling in 8 months.
One, kalm's go-to is to blame tax cuts and trickle down.

Two, Trump might have had it well in control in 2020 but this problem was coming to a head regardless of who won the 2020 election.

Three, Biden and the Fed absolutely exasperated the problem by throwing more federal dollars at people (and attempting to print even more), discouraging investment in fossil fuel production, not taking early steps to reign in inflation, etc.

And kalmy, yes, past actions and policies can have a major impact on the economy (Reagan's tax cuts helped fuel the innovation that led to the Internet Boom). Unfortunately for Biden, in addition to completely fvcking up the response to looming inflation, he also has some ownership of the policies from 6-14 years ago. Biden is a walking, talking example of the Peter Principle at work. His level of incompetence (and arrogance) is incredible.

Hopefully, we're learning the lesson that there is a limit to how much money our government can print and throw at problems.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:44 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:32 pm

You blamed bush’s tax cuts. That’s a gross oversimplification of a complex problem that Trump had well under control. But I can assure you, something that happened 20 years ago did NOT impact gas prices tripling in 8 months.
One, kalm's go-to is to blame tax cuts and trickle down.

Two, Trump might have had it well in control in 2020 but this problem was coming to a head regardless of who won the 2020 election.

Three, Biden and the Fed absolutely exasperated the problem by throwing more federal dollars at people (and attempting to print even more), discouraging investment in fossil fuel production, not taking early steps to reign in inflation, etc.

And kalmy, yes, past actions and policies can have a major impact on the economy (Reagan's tax cuts helped fuel the innovation that led to the Internet Boom). Unfortunately for Biden, in addition to completely fvcking up the response to looming inflation, he also has some ownership of the policies from 6-14 years ago. Biden is a walking, talking example of the Peter Principle at work. His level of incompetence (and arrogance) is incredible.

Hopefully, we're learning the lesson that there is a limit to how much money our government can print and throw at problems.
And to bring this full circle, there are idiots out there that want to fire up the Fed printers for even more bailouts. The idiocy is truly perplexing.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:33 am Pretty damn simple regarding everything.

Don’t be a dick.

This is the dumbest thing I have seen all week, and I just read a HD post on how oil companies profits are up 300%.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:44 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:32 pm

You blamed bush’s tax cuts. That’s a gross oversimplification of a complex problem that Trump had well under control. But I can assure you, something that happened 20 years ago did NOT impact gas prices tripling in 8 months.
One, kalm's go-to is to blame tax cuts and trickle down.

Two, Trump might have had it well in control in 2020 but this problem was coming to a head regardless of who won the 2020 election.

Three, Biden and the Fed absolutely exasperated the problem by throwing more federal dollars at people (and attempting to print even more), discouraging investment in fossil fuel production, not taking early steps to reign in inflation, etc.

And kalmy, yes, past actions and policies can have a major impact on the economy (Reagan's tax cuts helped fuel the innovation that led to the Internet Boom). Unfortunately for Biden, in addition to completely fvcking up the response to looming inflation, he also has some ownership of the policies from 6-14 years ago. Biden is a walking, talking example of the Peter Principle at work. His level of incompetence (and arrogance) is incredible.

Hopefully, we're learning the lesson that there is a limit to how much money our government can print and throw at problems.
The Fed has been screwing it up since 2010 and this is just the chickens coming home to roost.

Government learning a lesson? :rofl: :rofl: Maybe voters will but I have my doubts.
Between 2008 and 2014, the Federal Reserve printed more than $3.5 trillion in new bills. To put that in perspective, it’s roughly triple the amount of money that the Fed created in its first 95 years of existence. Three centuries’ worth of growth in the money supply was crammed into a few short years. The money poured through the veins of the financial system and stoked demand for assets like stocks, corporate debt and commercial real estate bonds, driving up prices across markets. Hoenig was the one Fed leader who voted consistently against this course of action, starting in 2010. In doing so, he pitted himself against the Fed’s powerful chair at the time, Ben Bernanke, who was widely regarded as a hero for the ambitious rescue plans he designed and oversaw.

Hoenig lost his fight. Throughout 2010, the FOMC votes were routinely 11 against one, with Hoenig being the one. He retired from the Fed in late 2011, and after that, a reputation hardened around Hoenig as the man who got it wrong. He is remembered as something like a cranky Old Testament prophet who warned incessantly, and incorrectly, about one thing: the threat of coming inflation.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... rve-526177
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

And literally every single time since 2008 that the Fed has said "we're going to begin tapering" or "we're going to begin unwinding the balance sheet" the market freaks out and they end up not doing it.

$8.5 TRILLION dollars on the balance sheet. Unwinding it causes a 25 bp upward shift in treasuries for every $60 BILLION they unwind.

Imagine where rates would go if they actually did it. Thus, they never will. They can't. They're stuck now, between a rock and a hard place. Nice going, Bernanke.

Disclaimer: If I were Fed President, I'd forego ANY rate increases and just unwind the balance sheet faster. Has virtually the same effect, and you don't get the 2 for 1 whammy or get left holding $8 Trillion on your balance sheet after you've raised rates 300 bps.
Last edited by AZGrizFan on Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Winterborn »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:00 am And literally every single time since 2008 that the Fed has said "we're going to begin tapering" or "we're going to begin unwinding the balance sheet" the market freaks out and they end up not doing it.

$8.5 TRILLION dollars on the balance sheet. Unwinding it causes a 25 bp upward shift in treasuries for every $60 BILLION they unwind.

Imagine where rates would go if they actually did it. Thus, they never will. They can't. They're stuck now, between a rock and a hard place. Nice going, Bernanke.

Disclaimer: If I were Fed President, I'd forego ANY rate increases and just unwind the balance sheet faster. Has virtually the same effect, and you don't ge the 2 for 1 whammy or get left holding $8 Trillion on your balance sheet after you've raised rates 300 bps.
The Fed is really independent isn't it? :coffee:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by SeattleGriz »

Economy is doing so well, but yet student loan repayment is deferred again...through the midterms.

Where do I go to get my 10k?
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

So much Pandora's box on this one. Why just student loans? Why not mortgages? Car loans? Any loan? Why just the folks who still have open student loans? How about people that just paid off their loan (although if you paid yours off in the last two years you're crazy - the writing has been on the wall that this was coming)? How about people that are just starting to take loans now? How about current college kids that are already accumulating loans but not graduated yet? What about people that were paying off their student loans with no problems at all, clearly the vast majority of student loan recipients were capable of paying back their loans without this largesse. Why do this and yet have no plan in place to curb or restrain the cost of higher education? How does this not translate into colleges basically becoming $10k more expensive in a relatively short term? When do we schedule the next $10k student loan forgiveness? Do students taking on new debt now just take more under the assumption that government will eventually forgive it? Under what authority from Congress does the President have the power to spend $300B, if not more? If any President can just spend whatever they want, what else do we just magically spend money on without Congressional approval? Congress has been relatively negligent lately in terms of actually legislating, so is this the new normal?
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by SeattleGriz »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:19 am So much Pandora's box on this one. Why just student loans? Why not mortgages? Car loans? Any loan? Why just the folks who still have open student loans? How about people that just paid off their loan (although if you paid yours off in the last two years you're crazy - the writing has been on the wall that this was coming)? How about people that are just starting to take loans now? How about current college kids that are already accumulating loans but not graduated yet? What about people that were paying off their student loans with no problems at all, clearly the vast majority of student loan recipients were capable of paying back their loans without this largesse. Why do this and yet have no plan in place to curb or restrain the cost of higher education? How does this not translate into colleges basically becoming $10k more expensive in a relatively short term? When do we schedule the next $10k student loan forgiveness? Do students taking on new debt now just take more under the assumption that government will eventually forgive it? Under what authority from Congress does the President have the power to spend $300B, if not more? If any President can just spend whatever they want, what else do we just magically spend money on without Congressional approval? Congress has been relatively negligent lately in terms of actually legislating, so is this the new normal?
My wife and I both worked full time in college to graduate debt free. We both went to school after our bachelors (massage therapy school and Interior Design) but paid those loans off years ago.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:27 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:19 am So much Pandora's box on this one. Why just student loans? Why not mortgages? Car loans? Any loan? Why just the folks who still have open student loans? How about people that just paid off their loan (although if you paid yours off in the last two years you're crazy - the writing has been on the wall that this was coming)? How about people that are just starting to take loans now? How about current college kids that are already accumulating loans but not graduated yet? What about people that were paying off their student loans with no problems at all, clearly the vast majority of student loan recipients were capable of paying back their loans without this largesse. Why do this and yet have no plan in place to curb or restrain the cost of higher education? How does this not translate into colleges basically becoming $10k more expensive in a relatively short term? When do we schedule the next $10k student loan forgiveness? Do students taking on new debt now just take more under the assumption that government will eventually forgive it? Under what authority from Congress does the President have the power to spend $300B, if not more? If any President can just spend whatever they want, what else do we just magically spend money on without Congressional approval? Congress has been relatively negligent lately in terms of actually legislating, so is this the new normal?
My wife and I both worked full time in college to graduate debt free. We both went to school after our bachelors (massage therapy school and Interior Design) but paid those loans off years ago.
Lots of people made sacrifices to either not take on student loan debt or to have already paid it back. And like I said, the vast majority are more than capable of paying back their student debt. Giving away $10k to people who are already in place, by virtue of their bachelor's or advanced degree, to make a lot more money in their lifetimes than a good chunk of America is about as regressive as you can get in terms of government spending. This huge payout is going to what amounts to about 13% of Americans, so the other 87% of Americans are now on the hook for this. And like I said, when's the next student loan forgiveness? We should be as clear about that as possible so that colleges and universities don't have to guess about how much to raise tuition and rates to match. :coffee:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by SeattleGriz »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:34 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:27 am

My wife and I both worked full time in college to graduate debt free. We both went to school after our bachelors (massage therapy school and Interior Design) but paid those loans off years ago.
Lots of people made sacrifices to either not take on student loan debt or to have already paid it back. And like I said, the vast majority are more than capable of paying back their student debt. Giving away $10k to people who are already in place, by virtue of their bachelor's or advanced degree, to make a lot more money in their lifetimes than a good chunk of America is about as regressive as you can get in terms of government spending. This huge payout is going to what amounts to about 13% of Americans, so the other 87% of Americans are now on the hook for this. And like I said, when's the next student loan forgiveness? We should be as clear about that as possible so that colleges and universities don't have to guess about how much to raise tuition and rates to match. :coffee:
Going to be hilarious to see Nancy twist her words to say that she really didn't say this.

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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:19 am So much Pandora's box on this one. Why just student loans? Why not mortgages? Car loans? Any loan? Why just the folks who still have open student loans? How about people that just paid off their loan (although if you paid yours off in the last two years you're crazy - the writing has been on the wall that this was coming)? How about people that are just starting to take loans now? How about current college kids that are already accumulating loans but not graduated yet? What about people that were paying off their student loans with no problems at all, clearly the vast majority of student loan recipients were capable of paying back their loans without this largesse. Why do this and yet have no plan in place to curb or restrain the cost of higher education? How does this not translate into colleges basically becoming $10k more expensive in a relatively short term? When do we schedule the next $10k student loan forgiveness? Do students taking on new debt now just take more under the assumption that government will eventually forgive it? Under what authority from Congress does the President have the power to spend $300B, if not more? If any President can just spend whatever they want, what else do we just magically spend money on without Congressional approval? Congress has been relatively negligent lately in terms of actually legislating, so is this the new normal?
Good questions.

My #1 took all of his graduation gift money and bonus money from work to pay off his private student loans within one year of graduating. This will knock out a good chunk of his government loans.

As I understand it, #2 who is currently a full-time student will also be eligible but whether he qualifies will be based on my ex's income if she claimed him as a dependent on her tax return.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:34 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:27 am

My wife and I both worked full time in college to graduate debt free. We both went to school after our bachelors (massage therapy school and Interior Design) but paid those loans off years ago.
Lots of people made sacrifices to either not take on student loan debt or to have already paid it back. And like I said, the vast majority are more than capable of paying back their student debt. Giving away $10k to people who are already in place, by virtue of their bachelor's or advanced degree, to make a lot more money in their lifetimes than a good chunk of America is about as regressive as you can get in terms of government spending. This huge payout is going to what amounts to about 13% of Americans, so the other 87% of Americans are now on the hook for this. And like I said, when's the next student loan forgiveness? We should be as clear about that as possible so that colleges and universities don't have to guess about how much to raise tuition and rates to match. :coffee:
I can assure you they’ve thought of exactly NONE of the answers to those basic questions. Zip. zero. Nada.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:32 pm
GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:34 am

Lots of people made sacrifices to either not take on student loan debt or to have already paid it back. And like I said, the vast majority are more than capable of paying back their student debt. Giving away $10k to people who are already in place, by virtue of their bachelor's or advanced degree, to make a lot more money in their lifetimes than a good chunk of America is about as regressive as you can get in terms of government spending. This huge payout is going to what amounts to about 13% of Americans, so the other 87% of Americans are now on the hook for this. And like I said, when's the next student loan forgiveness? We should be as clear about that as possible so that colleges and universities don't have to guess about how much to raise tuition and rates to match. :coffee:
I can assure you they’ve thought of exactly NONE of the answers to those basic questions. Zip. zero. Nada.
That's the hallmark of this administration, really, just an outstanding lack of appreciation for the economic impact and reality of their moves, which of course stems from a decided lack of understanding of how the economy works. I get it that it's a political maneuver, and that is what this administration cares about the most, but having even a semblance of economic intelligence would be helpful. It's just not there unfortunately.
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