Student Debt Forgiveness

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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Pwns »

I think people are asking the wrong questions here.

What's the plan for the class of 2023's debt? And the class of 2024? If you want to say student debt is such a problem don't give such a one-time fix.

And why is the income cap so high? I think the answer is obvious, and it has nothing to do with tackling the issue of college costs.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

Heck, it gets even more crazy. Apparently the plan is to double the amount that can be given as Pell grants (was something like $6k a year, so I guess that's now $12k per year, renewable for something like 4-5 years so capped at upwards of $60k). These are grants, so they don't get paid back. Since you have to be dirt poor to qualify for a Pell Grant, I don't necessarily have a problem with this - those folks need help and we need to be able to have a pathway for those kids to get through college. But again, what's missing from the equation is how to stop colleges from just factoring this in to tuition and rate hikes that make the students merely the vessel by which this additional government spending basically goes directly to the colleges bottom lines, as they have every time we say government will give students more money? No plan on that, other than a throw-away line in their press release of "Meanwhile, colleges have an obligation to keep prices reasonable and ensure borrowers get value for their investments, not debt they cannot afford." So again, no plan on how to make that happen other than wagging a finger at the "not-for-profit" colleges that rake in a lot of profit.

Even further, apparently now we're lowering the minimum repayment, per month, from 10% of discretionary income to 5%. And, here's the kicker, as long as you're paying the minimum payment, there's no accumulated interest. So as long as you just pay 5% of discretionary income each month (and really, why would anyone pay more) you don't have to pay any interest on the loan. And there's still the 10 or 20 year window that if you reach if (either as a public employee or a private one, respectively), your remaining debt gets wiped away anyway. Giving millions of people loans today, that they only need to repay a fraction of as years go on, never accumulate interest, and then wipe away at 10 or 20 years means that we, as taxpayers, never get a good portion of that loan (if we're going to still call them loans) back since money 20 years from now will always be less valuable than money today. And, we make this happen without ever passing a law and without ever going through Congress. And, all of this relatively free money goes to the folks who were already getting college degrees and the lifetime bump in earnings that were supposed to be paying for the loans they were using.

I thought Trump was an idiot for trying to build a wall and we saw all the grief that went into how a President could or couldn't move appropriated money around to pay for it. But apparently he was an even bigger idiot because why do you even need to have money appropriated at all, he should've just declared it so and made it happen.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:39 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:34 am

Lots of people made sacrifices to either not take on student loan debt or to have already paid it back. And like I said, the vast majority are more than capable of paying back their student debt. Giving away $10k to people who are already in place, by virtue of their bachelor's or advanced degree, to make a lot more money in their lifetimes than a good chunk of America is about as regressive as you can get in terms of government spending. This huge payout is going to what amounts to about 13% of Americans, so the other 87% of Americans are now on the hook for this. And like I said, when's the next student loan forgiveness? We should be as clear about that as possible so that colleges and universities don't have to guess about how much to raise tuition and rates to match. :coffee:
Going to be hilarious to see Nancy twist her words to say that she really didn't say this.

The botox grandma is correct. Govt spending can only be done through Congress. This will be challenged, and certainly won’t stand up in court.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by GannonFan »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:49 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:39 am

Going to be hilarious to see Nancy twist her words to say that she really didn't say this.

The botox grandma is correct. Govt spending can only be done through Congress. This will be challenged, and certainly won’t stand up in court.
The thing is, though, who has standing to challenge this and who will go and do it? Bound to be very unpopular stance for the person(s) who bring that case.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by HI54UNI »

GannonFan wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:47 am
BDKJMU wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:49 pm
The botox grandma is correct. Govt spending can only be done through Congress. This will be challenged, and certainly won’t stand up in court.
The thing is, though, who has standing to challenge this and who will go and do it? Bound to be very unpopular stance for the person(s) who bring that case.
The other thing is by the time this works its way through the courts the Biden Admin will have already forgiven a bunch of loans unless a judge can be found to give an injunction. How does the government go back and reinstate those loans? They won't. It will be just like the eviction moratorium by the CDC. By the time the court got through it the damage was done.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:18 pm Heck, it gets even more crazy. Apparently the plan is to double the amount that can be given as Pell grants (was something like $6k a year, so I guess that's now $12k per year, renewable for something like 4-5 years so capped at upwards of $60k). These are grants, so they don't get paid back. Since you have to be dirt poor to qualify for a Pell Grant, I don't necessarily have a problem with this - those folks need help and we need to be able to have a pathway for those kids to get through college. But again, what's missing from the equation is how to stop colleges from just factoring this in to tuition and rate hikes that make the students merely the vessel by which this additional government spending basically goes directly to the colleges bottom lines, as they have every time we say government will give students more money? No plan on that, other than a throw-away line in their press release of "Meanwhile, colleges have an obligation to keep prices reasonable and ensure borrowers get value for their investments, not debt they cannot afford." So again, no plan on how to make that happen other than wagging a finger at the "not-for-profit" colleges that rake in a lot of profit.

Even further, apparently now we're lowering the minimum repayment, per month, from 10% of discretionary income to 5%. And, here's the kicker, as long as you're paying the minimum payment, there's no accumulated interest. So as long as you just pay 5% of discretionary income each month (and really, why would anyone pay more) you don't have to pay any interest on the loan. And there's still the 10 or 20 year window that if you reach if (either as a public employee or a private one, respectively), your remaining debt gets wiped away anyway. Giving millions of people loans today, that they only need to repay a fraction of as years go on, never accumulate interest, and then wipe away at 10 or 20 years means that we, as taxpayers, never get a good portion of that loan (if we're going to still call them loans) back since money 20 years from now will always be less valuable than money today. And, we make this happen without ever passing a law and without ever going through Congress. And, all of this relatively free money goes to the folks who were already getting college degrees and the lifetime bump in earnings that were supposed to be paying for the loans they were using.

I thought Trump was an idiot for trying to build a wall and we saw all the grief that went into how a President could or couldn't move appropriated money around to pay for it. But apparently he was an even bigger idiot because why do you even need to have money appropriated at all, he should've just declared it so and made it happen.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:05 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:18 pm Heck, it gets even more crazy. Apparently the plan is to double the amount that can be given as Pell grants (was something like $6k a year, so I guess that's now $12k per year, renewable for something like 4-5 years so capped at upwards of $60k). These are grants, so they don't get paid back. Since you have to be dirt poor to qualify for a Pell Grant, I don't necessarily have a problem with this - those folks need help and we need to be able to have a pathway for those kids to get through college. But again, what's missing from the equation is how to stop colleges from just factoring this in to tuition and rate hikes that make the students merely the vessel by which this additional government spending basically goes directly to the colleges bottom lines, as they have every time we say government will give students more money? No plan on that, other than a throw-away line in their press release of "Meanwhile, colleges have an obligation to keep prices reasonable and ensure borrowers get value for their investments, not debt they cannot afford." So again, no plan on how to make that happen other than wagging a finger at the "not-for-profit" colleges that rake in a lot of profit.

Even further, apparently now we're lowering the minimum repayment, per month, from 10% of discretionary income to 5%. And, here's the kicker, as long as you're paying the minimum payment, there's no accumulated interest. So as long as you just pay 5% of discretionary income each month (and really, why would anyone pay more) you don't have to pay any interest on the loan. And there's still the 10 or 20 year window that if you reach if (either as a public employee or a private one, respectively), your remaining debt gets wiped away anyway. Giving millions of people loans today, that they only need to repay a fraction of as years go on, never accumulate interest, and then wipe away at 10 or 20 years means that we, as taxpayers, never get a good portion of that loan (if we're going to still call them loans) back since money 20 years from now will always be less valuable than money today. And, we make this happen without ever passing a law and without ever going through Congress. And, all of this relatively free money goes to the folks who were already getting college degrees and the lifetime bump in earnings that were supposed to be paying for the loans they were using.

I thought Trump was an idiot for trying to build a wall and we saw all the grief that went into how a President could or couldn't move appropriated money around to pay for it. But apparently he was an even bigger idiot because why do you even need to have money appropriated at all, he should've just declared it so and made it happen.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Baldy »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:18 pm Heck, it gets even more crazy. Apparently the plan is to double the amount that can be given as Pell grants (was something like $6k a year, so I guess that's now $12k per year, renewable for something like 4-5 years so capped at upwards of $60k). These are grants, so they don't get paid back. Since you have to be dirt poor to qualify for a Pell Grant, I don't necessarily have a problem with this - those folks need help and we need to be able to have a pathway for those kids to get through college. But again, what's missing from the equation is how to stop colleges from just factoring this in to tuition and rate hikes that make the students merely the vessel by which this additional government spending basically goes directly to the colleges bottom lines, as they have every time we say government will give students more money? No plan on that, other than a throw-away line in their press release of "Meanwhile, colleges have an obligation to keep prices reasonable and ensure borrowers get value for their investments, not debt they cannot afford." So again, no plan on how to make that happen other than wagging a finger at the "not-for-profit" colleges that rake in a lot of profit.

Even further, apparently now we're lowering the minimum repayment, per month, from 10% of discretionary income to 5%. And, here's the kicker, as long as you're paying the minimum payment, there's no accumulated interest. So as long as you just pay 5% of discretionary income each month (and really, why would anyone pay more) you don't have to pay any interest on the loan. And there's still the 10 or 20 year window that if you reach if (either as a public employee or a private one, respectively), your remaining debt gets wiped away anyway. Giving millions of people loans today, that they only need to repay a fraction of as years go on, never accumulate interest, and then wipe away at 10 or 20 years means that we, as taxpayers, never get a good portion of that loan (if we're going to still call them loans) back since money 20 years from now will always be less valuable than money today. And, we make this happen without ever passing a law and without ever going through Congress. And, all of this relatively free money goes to the folks who were already getting college degrees and the lifetime bump in earnings that were supposed to be paying for the loans they were using.

I thought Trump was an idiot for trying to build a wall and we saw all the grief that went into how a President could or couldn't move appropriated money around to pay for it. But apparently he was an even bigger idiot because why do you even need to have money appropriated at all, he should've just declared it so and made it happen.
Sounds kinda Authoritariany, doesn't it? :suspicious:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

GannonFan wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:47 am
BDKJMU wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:49 pm
The botox grandma is correct. Govt spending can only be done through Congress. This will be challenged, and certainly won’t stand up in court.
The thing is, though, who has standing to challenge this and who will go and do it? Bound to be very unpopular stance for the person(s) who bring that case.
If the POTUS says ‘I’m going to slend 300-600 billion on _____ because I feel like it” even though Congresss didn’t authorize him to, who has standing to challenge that? I would imagine any group representing American taxpayers? There are a number of those. The Biden Admin is citing a law meant for national emergencies as justification for this. When Trump moved money earmarked for the Pentagon to wall funding citing a national emergency was blocked, it was some pro human rights group that did the successful legal challenge. This will probably end up being ruled on by SCOTUS..

Unpopular only for the 6% of the poulation (20 million) who would benefit. Not popular for most US taxpayers who have to fund this.
Last edited by BDKJMU on Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by SeattleGriz »

I sure wish the polling would come out on this, so we can see how our elected representatives will act.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

HI54UNI wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:04 am
GannonFan wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:47 am

The thing is, though, who has standing to challenge this and who will go and do it? Bound to be very unpopular stance for the person(s) who bring that case.
The other thing is by the time this works its way through the courts the Biden Admin will have already forgiven a bunch of loans unless a judge can be found to give an injunction. How does the government go back and reinstate those loans? They won't. It will be just like the eviction moratorium by the CDC. By the time the court got through it the damage was done.
Depends on if its quickly legally challenged, and whether some circuit judge puts an injuction against it.

Also, if the court strikes this down, I would think it would be just be like with the wall funding- the court could say the $$$ would have have to be put back, because the Exec branch didn’t have the authority to unilaterally spend it, in this case that would be the 10k loan balances reinstated. Congress would then have to pass legislation forgiving the 10k, which they would face enormous pressure to do in the ‘interest of fairness.”

The eviction moratorium wasn’t govt spending though. It was just landlords getting screwed. Also the tenants still had all that back rent reinstated. Course the screwed landlords didn’t have the means to collect- not worth it to sue. They could only evict.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

Baldy wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:46 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:18 pm Heck, it gets even more crazy. Apparently the plan is to double the amount that can be given as Pell grants (was something like $6k a year, so I guess that's now $12k per year, renewable for something like 4-5 years so capped at upwards of $60k). These are grants, so they don't get paid back. Since you have to be dirt poor to qualify for a Pell Grant, I don't necessarily have a problem with this - those folks need help and we need to be able to have a pathway for those kids to get through college. But again, what's missing from the equation is how to stop colleges from just factoring this in to tuition and rate hikes that make the students merely the vessel by which this additional government spending basically goes directly to the colleges bottom lines, as they have every time we say government will give students more money? No plan on that, other than a throw-away line in their press release of "Meanwhile, colleges have an obligation to keep prices reasonable and ensure borrowers get value for their investments, not debt they cannot afford." So again, no plan on how to make that happen other than wagging a finger at the "not-for-profit" colleges that rake in a lot of profit.

Even further, apparently now we're lowering the minimum repayment, per month, from 10% of discretionary income to 5%. And, here's the kicker, as long as you're paying the minimum payment, there's no accumulated interest. So as long as you just pay 5% of discretionary income each month (and really, why would anyone pay more) you don't have to pay any interest on the loan. And there's still the 10 or 20 year window that if you reach if (either as a public employee or a private one, respectively), your remaining debt gets wiped away anyway. Giving millions of people loans today, that they only need to repay a fraction of as years go on, never accumulate interest, and then wipe away at 10 or 20 years means that we, as taxpayers, never get a good portion of that loan (if we're going to still call them loans) back since money 20 years from now will always be less valuable than money today. And, we make this happen without ever passing a law and without ever going through Congress. And, all of this relatively free money goes to the folks who were already getting college degrees and the lifetime bump in earnings that were supposed to be paying for the loans they were using.

I thought Trump was an idiot for trying to build a wall and we saw all the grief that went into how a President could or couldn't move appropriated money around to pay for it. But apparently he was an even bigger idiot because why do you even need to have money appropriated at all, he should've just declared it so and made it happen.
Sounds kinda Authoritariany, doesn't it? :suspicious:
It's a violation of the separation of powers. Where's kalmy to spread the alarm about an attack on the constitution?
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:55 am
Baldy wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:46 am
Sounds kinda Authoritariany, doesn't it? :suspicious:
It's a violation of the separation of powers. Where's kalmy to spread the alarm about an attack on the constitution?
The constitution is being attacked! Again! Fast track this mofo!
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

Once again, the donks think in a vacuum, implementing a policy action that serves a narrow sliver of their constituency, at the expense of many OTHER constituencies that they claim to support (blue collar, trade school grads, the every-man, etc., etc). This will end up costing them 2 votes for every vote they pick up.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

AZGrizFan wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:22 am Once again, the donks think in a vacuum, implementing a policy action that serves a narrow sliver of their constituency, at the expense of many OTHER constituencies that they claim to support (blue collar, trade school grads, the every-man, etc., etc). This will end up costing them 2 votes for every vote they pick up.
They've given up on the blue collar, trade school grads. Too much toxic masculinity and whiteness. They're focused on AFSCME, SEIU, etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the AFL/CIO and who the construction and similar trade unions support in the future.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:31 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:22 am Once again, the donks think in a vacuum, implementing a policy action that serves a narrow sliver of their constituency, at the expense of many OTHER constituencies that they claim to support (blue collar, trade school grads, the every-man, etc., etc). This will end up costing them 2 votes for every vote they pick up.
They've given up on the blue collar, trade school grads. Too much toxic masculinity and whiteness. They're focused on AFSCME, SEIU, etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the AFL/CIO and who the construction and similar trade unions support in the future.


There’s some truth here. Philosophically, policies need to benefit the working class. Strategically, there are not enough votes in the cities to win.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

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kalm wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:02 pm
:rofl:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:02 pm
Yeah, because nobody has ever considered free college as a hook to get kids to join the military. Who knew???
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:02 pm
Up until 9/11, how many of those beneficiaries actually had to see significant service during extended conflict?

Which POTUS since 9/11 was the most non-interventionist over that time? If we shouldn't be fighting wars that benefit the MIC then why is that POTUS so vilified?

Is there something wrong with people giving something of value (their time) in exchange for something of value (funds for post-secondary education)? How much do people value something that they get for nothing?
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by Baldy »

Straight from the head of Obama's council of economic advisors. :lol:

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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

Baldy wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:40 pm Straight from the head of Obama's council of economic advisors. :lol:

Biden spending
-1.9 trillion so called Covid relief.
-1.2 trillion pork laden infrastructure bill
-740 billion tax and spend New Green deal bill
-500 billion student loan handout/bribe (blatantly unconstitutional, so will be overturned).
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/bi ... ral-budget
-60? billion Ukraine (maybe its more by now)
———-
= 4.4 trillion of NEW govt spending. (And I’m sure I’ve left some off). All in 1 2/3 years.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

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Shout out to the Biden administration for making it perfectly clear that affirmative action hires are never a good idea. ‘Well, you see, this is paid for because Joe Biden is just so awesome, and his awesomeness magically excretes dollar bills to cover the cost of our illegal action.’
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

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Basically, Covid isn’t an emergency anymore when it doesn’t fit our agenda, and is still an emergency when it does. She comes across as dumb as a box of rocks trying to defend this.
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

Baldy wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:40 pm Straight from the head of Obama's council of economic advisors. :lol:

Like AZ said, this will cost them 2 votes for every one they pick up. Some donks in tight races are coming out against this. A couple of Senate examples (are more from the House):

Cortez-Matso:
https://thenevadaindependent.com/articl ... dems-cheer

As is the Wa Po:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... s-mistake/

As is one of CNN’s libs:
Last edited by BDKJMU on Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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