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UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:57 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:41 am

Technically that is what the holdouts are doing.

Thinking about them logically, this is their best chance to get some concessions (as long as they don't over play their hand). Why wouldn't they take it? I see very little difference in this and what Sinema and Manchin were doing last year.

There is common ground between the holdouts and minor D party members in the fact the Speaker controls too much of what goes on (can thank Gingrich for that) and one of the sticking points that McCarty does not want to do is break up the power of the Speaker to the pre-Gringrich days. This would give more say to the minority members of the House and reduce some of the cronyism. Which is something McCarty does not want. As that power is the reason he wants the job.

Like I said earlier, there is common ground between them. The sticking point is if both sides truly want to make a deal or not. Does McCarty want to lead or not? Are the GOP holdouts, doing it out of principle or spite? Both sides are at fault here as both are acting like children.

I thought I read that MTG was upset with Boebert and Gaetz for leaving her out of the discussion while they and the Freedom Caucus were trying to negotiate for plumb committee assignments. Are they trying to negotiate those assignments for the people they represent or so they can have a pulpit?

The difference between Manchin/Sinema and these holdouts is that Manchin/Sinema are centrists opposing more liberal policy and thus had allies to their right. The holdouts are alt-righters who have no natural allies on the side opposite of the party members they're opposing.

I believe you are correct about overplaying their hand. What if McCarthy withdraws his candidacy and the sh!tshow really starts? Every faction is going to want its piece of the pie and that is going to cut into what the holdouts want. The moderates could work a deal with the Democrats to pick a moderate Republican Speaker and then what do the holdouts get? Or they might not and the negotiations could drag out so long that they have to go to McCarthy with hat in hand asking him to reconsider without many of the concessions.

FTR I agree that many of the procedural changes are needed.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:19 pm Where was the Dem's oppo research prior to the election that they didn't catch Santos in these lies?

Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:23 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:57 am

I thought I read that MTG was upset with Boebert and Gaetz for leaving her out of the discussion while they and the Freedom Caucus were trying to negotiate for plumb committee assignments. Are they trying to negotiate those assignments for the people they represent or so they can have a pulpit?

The difference between Manchin/Sinema and these holdouts is that Manchin/Sinema are centrists opposing more liberal policy and thus had allies to their right. The holdouts are alt-righters who have no natural allies on the side opposite of the party members they're opposing.

I believe you are correct about overplaying their hand. What if McCarthy withdraws his candidacy and the sh!tshow really starts? Every faction is going to want its piece of the pie and that is going to cut into what the holdouts want. The moderates could work a deal with the Democrats to pick a moderate Republican Speaker and then what do the holdouts get? Or they might not and the negotiations could drag out so long that they have to go to McCarthy with hat in hand asking him to reconsider without many of the concessions.

FTR I agree that many of the procedural changes are needed.

So I "believe" those committee assignments were part of the procedural changes (based on one article I read). Now whether or not they will not grandstand with them I can't say but I have my suspicions (that they grandstand). Will the group act in good faith, I can't say but at least some will not. There are 20 individuals in that group and while some are kooks (MTG, etc), are they all that way? We tend assign a group viewpoint based on the vocal members of that group. But the case is often that they are not all in agreement.

I am not trying to defend them, as I think this situation could be handled better and I really do not like some of the members of the group. Plus I side with McCathy on the fact that dealing with them is nothing but trouble. I am just trying to bring out that they maybe self-centered idiots, but even self-centered idiots are right every now and then. Overall I tend to side with what they are doing, don't agree on the process in which they are doing it, but if I was in that spot, I would be voting no right along with them. If that makes me "alt-right" then I guess I am one. Though I just like to think I am extremely pragmatic. I tend to look upon politics as a very high stakes game of poker. Plus I tend to do think doing the opposite of what Trump wants done, most of the time, is the correct choice.

I still expect this all to blow up in their faces. Because, lets face it, there are more idiots in that group than not and well MTG is there and she is pure nitroglycerin.

BTW: Food for thought. Is the reason they do not have "allies" on the other side is because of their demands or because Pelois has cracked the whip in her party stating to shut-up and behave? I have seen AOC make some rational comments on this (and when she sounds rational I know she is being spoon fed lines), which leads me to believe that there is common ground, at least on certain things. Pelois is just making a statement and letting the R's have more bad press (which is what I would do in her situation). I have seen how the game is played in DC first hand and it is much more complex then what is allowed to be reported on in the media. It is all about telling a story.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:37 am

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:19 pm Where was the Dem's oppo research prior to the election that they didn't catch Santos in these lies?

Both his GOP Primary Opponent and his Democratic opponent did bring up many of the issues, but it was ignored by all the media other than one tiny newspaper.

kalm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:02 am
This why I’m becoming more and more in favor of fascist dictatorships.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 am

dbackjon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:37 am

Both his GOP Primary Opponent and his Democratic opponent did bring up many of the issues, but it was ignored by all the media other than one tiny newspaper.

Kind of like Hunter's laptop?

dbackjon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:10 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 am
Kind of like Hunter's laptop?

LOL - there has been plenty of airtime on that non-story

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:52 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:10 pm

LOL - there has been plenty of airtime on that non-story

If it was a "non-story" why was buried until after November 3, 2020?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:52 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:10 pm

LOL - there has been plenty of airtime on that non-story

If it was a "non-story" why was buried until after November 3, 2020?

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:57 pm 127 speaker elections since 1789. 9 times in history that has taken more than 3 rounds:
1. Nathaniel Banks, 133 ballots, 34th Congress, 1855
2. Howell Cobb, 63 ballots, 31st Congress, 1849
3. William Pennington, 44 ballots, 36th Congress, 1859
4. John W. Taylor, 22 ballots, 16th Congress, 1820
5. Kevin McCarthy, 13 ballots (and counting), 118th Congress, 2023
6. Philip Pendleton Barbour, 12 ballots, 17th Congress, 1821
7. Robert M.T. Hunter, 11 ballots, 29th Congress, 1839
8. John W. Bell, 10 ballots, 22nd Congress, 1833
9. Frederick Gillett, 9 ballots, 68th Congress, 1923
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-mcca ... s-history/

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:26 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:52 pm

If it was a "non-story" why was buried until after November 3, 2020?

Don't forget 51 Intelligence Agents said it was Russian disinformation.

"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not, and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement—just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case," the letter said.

Ibanez wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:23 am McCarthy finally gets elected after the hold outs decided to vote neither for or against him. This man is weak, right out the gate. let’s see how long he lasts before Gaetz or someone brings up a vote against him.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:42 pm

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:26 pm

Don't forget 51 Intelligence Agents said it was Russian disinformation.

They were FORMER intelligence "officialss" expressing an opinion while allowing that they did not know for sure. See https://www.newsweek.com/hunter-biden-l ... er-1767369.

"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not, and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement—just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case," the letter said.

They said they suspected it. They did not say that they knew it. And, again, they were FORMER intelligence officials.

Nothing new here though. Jim Jordan is a thoroughly dishonest, bomb throwing demagogue. Mischaracterizing is what he does.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 am

dbackjon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:37 am

Both his GOP Primary Opponent and his Democratic opponent did bring up many of the issues, but it was ignored by all the media other than one tiny newspaper.

Kind of like Hunter's laptop?

Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:15 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:27 am

Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:15 am

I whoop the bitch's ass!

houndawg wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:26 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 am

Kind of like Hunter's laptop?

Hunter's Laptop was discussed everywhere - even in parking lots of landscaping companies..

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:03 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:26 am

Hunter's Laptop was discussed everywhere - even in parking lots of landscaping companies..

Yes it was, but it was ignored and even suppressed by the FBI, which was the only group that mattered.