Kim Potter Trial

[GannonFan]

Look at most any social media around the trial

The number of people, media and otherwise, that pulled the “she’s a cop and he was a criminal she shouldn’t go to jail” was very high


I haven’t seen a single person say the truck driver shouldn’t go. I saw arguments 110 years was excessive, and I don’t really have an opinion on that. I didn’t follow that trial.


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What are your thoughts about Alec Baldwin, Clenz? Should he go to jail for killing that girl on the set?

I'm not sure about jail, but wasn't Baldwin also a producer for the movie he was filming when all this happened? Doesn't that, at some point, make him responsible for the management of that movie set? If they weren't handling the guns and ammo correctly on that set, he's likely one who should've done something about it. He might be criminally liable, but he's certainly civily liable.

[clenz]

What are your thoughts about Alec Baldwin, Clenz? Should he go to jail for killing that girl on the set?

I'm not sure about jail, but wasn't Baldwin also a producer for the movie he was filming when all this happened? Doesn't that, at some point, make him responsible for the management of that movie set? If they weren't handling the guns and ammo correctly on that set, he's likely one who should've done something about it. He might be criminally liable, but he's certainly civily liable.

Stated better than I could, but where I am at as of now.

Until proven he reckless and actively took steps to break safety and training protocol I don’t see criminal liability. I’m more than willing to change my mind as evidence comes out.

It’s why I generally only have strong takes in cases where I watched the trial. I’m not beholden to picking on side of an issue like this because I’m more left leaning and the “left side” is X and the “right side” is Y. I don’t instantly defend the police and start coming up with excuses instantly why they should be able to kill who they want simply because they can’t handle a situation. I don’t instantly go “ACAB”.

There are still things I can disagree with the outcome of but that isn’t really an issue of political beliefs, more so I disagree with how the law is written, how it was prosecuted/defended, or how I feel the law was interpreted.

I don’t treat George Floyd as some sort of angel like so many are. Conks here love to paint me as a super lib, but it’s simply because the sides have shifted so far to either side that simply disagreeing with them is seen as being “super lib CNN watcher”. I haven’t had cable in 9 years. I haven’t watched the news in that time. Even before then I didn’t watch national news - and the time in my life I did watch/listen to national political bullshit it was Limbaugh, Beck, Fox News.


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[AZGrizFan]

What are your thoughts about Alec Baldwin, Clenz? Should he go to jail for killing that girl on the set?

I'm not sure about jail, but wasn't Baldwin also a producer for the movie he was filming when all this happened? Doesn't that, at some point, make him responsible for the management of that movie set? If they weren't handling the guns and ammo correctly on that set, he's likely one who should've done something about it. He might be criminally liable, but he's certainly civily liable.

If you're cleaning a gun and it goes off and kills someone, do you go to jail?

He pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger. First rule of gun handling--ensure it's not loaded. Yes, it was an accident (just like Kim Potter's), but he knowingly aimed a gun at a living person and pulled the trigger. He THOUGHT it was unloaded (didn't check). She THOUGHT it was her tazer (didn't check).

At the very least, if Kim Potter is going to prison (and I'm certain she is), SOMEONE on that movie set needs to do some jail time--whether that's Alec Baldwin, the firearms handler, the person who previously used the gun and left a live round in it...somebody.

[houndawg]

Look at most any social media around the trial

The number of people, media and otherwise, that pulled the “she’s a cop and he was a criminal she shouldn’t go to jail” was very high


I haven’t seen a single person say the truck driver shouldn’t go. I saw arguments 110 years was excessive, and I don’t really have an opinion on that. I didn’t follow that trial.


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What are your thoughts about Alec Baldwin, Clenz? Should he go to jail for killing that girl on the set?

He goes to jail - no ifs ands or buts. It doesn't matter if Jesus Christ himself told you the gun was empty. The whole chain of command should be charged - I try to picture that mealy-mouthed fuck telling Drill Sgt. Cooper he didn't know the gun was loaded....

[AZGrizFan]

What are your thoughts about Alec Baldwin, Clenz? Should he go to jail for killing that girl on the set?

He goes to jail - no ifs ands or buts. It doesn't matter if Jesus Christ himself told you the gun was empty. The whole chain of command should be charged - I try to picture that mealy-mouthed fuck telling Drill Sgt. Cooper he didn't know the gun was loaded....

That's where I'm at, HD, but clenz feels differently, apparently...

Until proven he reckless and actively took steps to break safety and training protocol I don’t see criminal liability.

Still trying to reconcile where/how Kim Potter "actively took steps to break safety and training protocol...."

[clenz]

It’s been laid out. It’s in her own testimony

You not seeing it is you distorting facts to fit your opinion that you refuse to move off of because you think it would make you seem “less manly and more of a weak libtard” to agree a cop fucked up and killed someone and should be held accountable.


Also, yeah how fucked out of me to say I’ll wait to see what the evidence is before I take a stance someone should go to jail, especially when the main backing behind it is “this cop went to jail so he should too”

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[AZGrizFan]

It’s been laid out. It’s in her own testimony

You not seeing it is you distorting facts to fit your opinion that you refuse to move off of because you think it would make you seem “less manly and more of a weak libtard” to agree a cop fucked up and killed someone and should be held accountable.


Also, yeah how fucked out of me to say I’ll wait to see what the evidence is before I take a stance someone should go to jail, especially when the main backing behind it is “this cop went to jail so he should too”

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talk about distorting facts and not willing to move off of a position.

I've freely admitted she fucked up and killed someone and should be held accountable. I'm fine with all of that. My question is this: Hasn't Alec Baldwin ALSO fucked up and killed someone and shouldn't HE be held accountable? We KNOW who actively pulled the trigger. We KNOW someone is dead. How can it NOT be deemed reckless? Seems like a precedent has been set here...

And here's my bet: Alec Baldwin never sees the inside of a jail cell.

[houndawg]

It’s been laid out. It’s in her own testimony

You not seeing it is you distorting facts to fit your opinion that you refuse to move off of because you think it would make you seem “less manly and more of a weak libtard” to agree a cop fucked up and killed someone and should be held accountable.


Also, yeah how fucked out of me to say I’ll wait to see what the evidence is before I take a stance someone should go to jail, especially when the main backing behind it is “this cop went to jail so he should too”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

talk about distorting facts and not willing to move off of a position.

I've freely admitted she fucked up and killed someone and should be held accountable. I'm fine with all of that. My question is this: Hasn't Alec Baldwin ALSO fucked up and killed someone and shouldn't HE be held accountable? We KNOW who actively pulled the trigger. We KNOW someone is dead. How can it NOT be deemed reckless? Seems like a precedent has been set here...

And here's my bet: Alec Baldwin never sees the inside of a jail cell.

I wish I could take that bet but I fear you're right. I just don't see any black and white here - its carved in stone that the first thing you do when handling a gun is check it for ammo, I had that drilled into me from the time I was 14 years old

[clenz]

It’s been laid out. It’s in her own testimony

You not seeing it is you distorting facts to fit your opinion that you refuse to move off of because you think it would make you seem “less manly and more of a weak libtard” to agree a cop fucked up and killed someone and should be held accountable.


Also, yeah how fucked out of me to say I’ll wait to see what the evidence is before I take a stance someone should go to jail, especially when the main backing behind it is “this cop went to jail so he should too”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

talk about distorting facts and not willing to move off of a position.

I've freely admitted she fucked up and killed someone and should be held accountable. I'm fine with all of that. My question is this: Hasn't Alec Baldwin ALSO fucked up and killed someone and shouldn't HE be held accountable? We KNOW who actively pulled the trigger. We KNOW someone is dead. How can it NOT be deemed reckless? Seems like a precedent has been set here...

And here's my bet: Alec Baldwin never sees the inside of a jail cell.

The difference as I see it, as of now, is Potter intentionally pulled a weapon in a situation that went against BPPD protocol during a stop that was deemed to be a stop that should not have been made (again, by her own admission) and used discharged the weapon intentionally with the intent of "harming" the victim. I say harm for lack of a better word at this point. Every single piece of evidence points to her breaking protocols and training that she had done for 26 years. Had signed documentation of her taking that yearly training a month before the incident. She, even during the trial, was excessively flippant about those guidelines and following them. I've said I was half shocked 1st degree stuck because even with all of the evidence because it wasn't intentional. She intentionally went against protocol and in doing so killed someone.

Baldwin, based on what we know as of now, was given/handed/presented/whatever you want to call it, a gun on a set that was not supposed to have live ammunition on it. The gun was given/handed/presented/whatever you want to call it by an individual that, to the best of everyone's knowledge on set, was following the protocols in place.

Now, if it is proven that Baldwin was aware of live ammo on set, was aware that gun had been used with live ammo, had the potential to have live ammo, disregarded all safety policy/training, etc. and fired the gun knowing it had live ammunition in it then I agree he should go to jail. I think that's where the difference for me between the civil and criminal case comes in for him. Hold him to the fire 100% for the civil side of it. There is an element of him being a producer that adds to that as well. However, based on what we have been presented I don't see what criminal charges stick on him. I know he's a target for the pro-gun side of things because he's a lefty and stands for everything Trumplican's despise, so the chance to see someone like him go down for a gun-related incident makes even the most impotent republican rock hard.

I do want to clarify one thing though. You keep saying he pointed at the camera/camera operator and pulled the trigger as though he was fucking around, made some joke that he was going to shoot them, and then pulled the trigger. Is that the case, or is it the case that the scene/moves being rehearsed were to be done that way and done facing the camera for cinematic purposes? I think that also will make a difference come any potential trial.

[AZGrizFan]

talk about distorting facts and not willing to move off of a position.

I've freely admitted she fucked up and killed someone and should be held accountable. I'm fine with all of that. My question is this: Hasn't Alec Baldwin ALSO fucked up and killed someone and shouldn't HE be held accountable? We KNOW who actively pulled the trigger. We KNOW someone is dead. How can it NOT be deemed reckless? Seems like a precedent has been set here...

And here's my bet: Alec Baldwin never sees the inside of a jail cell.

I wish I could take that bet but I fear you're right. I just don't see any black and white here - its carved in stone that the first thing you do when handling a gun is check it for ammo, I had that drilled into me from the time I was 14 years old

yep. Same.

[AZGrizFan]

Baldwin, based on what we know as of now, was given/handed/presented/whatever you want to call it, a gun on a set that was not supposed to have live ammunition on it. The gun was given/handed/presented/whatever you want to call it by an individual that, to the best of everyone's knowledge on set, was following the protocols in place.

Now, if it is proven that Baldwin was aware of live ammo on set, was aware that gun had been used with live ammo, had the potential to have live ammo, disregarded all safety policy/training, etc. and fired the gun knowing it had live ammunition in it then I agree he should go to jail. I think that's where the difference for me between the civil and criminal case comes in for him. Hold him to the fire 100% for the civil side of it. There is an element of him being a producer that adds to that as well. However, based on what we have been presented I don't see what criminal charges stick on him. I know he's a target for the pro-gun side of things because he's a lefty and stands for everything Trumplican's despise, so the chance to see someone like him go down for a gun-related incident makes even the most impotent republican rock hard.

I do want to clarify one thing though. You keep saying he pointed at the camera/camera operator and pulled the trigger as though he was fucking around, made some joke that he was going to shoot them, and then pulled the trigger. Is that the case, or is it the case that the scene/moves being rehearsed were to be done that way and done facing the camera for cinematic purposes? I think that also will make a difference come any potential trial.

why do you keep putting words in my mouth? I never said he "joked" about anything. I have no idea how/why he pointed the gun where he did or what the circumstances were behind it. At the end of the day, he killed someone with a gun. Period.

And your post reeks of someone who's never had an ounce of firearms training--EVERY gun is deemed to be loaded until proven otherwise. Anybody with a brainstem knows this. And it's such a simplistic argument to say he's a target because he "stands for everything Trumplicans despise". I depised Alec Baldwin long before Trump was even on the radar as a presidential candidate. But that doesn't mean I want the guy in jail.

Then again, if he pointed a gun a someone and pulled the trigger (even if a tragic accident), it's still involuntary manslaughter.

[clenz]

At the end of the day someone pulled the trigger and killed someone so they should be in jail?

Sweet. Let's to round up Rittenhouse, right?

[houndawg]

At the end of the day someone pulled the trigger and killed someone so they should be in jail?

Sweet. Let's to round up Rittenhouse, right?

Touche!


Back to you Z.....

[AZGrizFan]

At the end of the day someone pulled the trigger and killed someone so they should be in jail?

Sweet. Let's to round up Rittenhouse, right?

Touche!


Back to you Z.....

Well, let’s see….that one went through our court system and was determined to be self defense.

Is that what Alec Baldwin is going to claim?

Back to you, dipshit.

[houndawg]

Touche!


Back to you Z.....

Well, let’s see….that one went through our court system and was determined to be self defense.

Is that what Alec Baldwin is going to claim?

Back to you, dipshit.

Why.. I do believe young clenzy touched a nerve there...

[UNI88]

Well, let’s see….that one went through our court system and was determined to be self defense.

Is that what Alec Baldwin is going to claim?

Back to you, dipshit.

Why.. I do believe young clenzy touched a nerve there...

Why.. I do believe this is how Houndie responds when he's got nothing ...

[AZGrizFan]

Well, let’s see….that one went through our court system and was determined to be self defense.

Is that what Alec Baldwin is going to claim?

Back to you, dipshit.

Why.. I do believe young clenzy touched a nerve there...

No, that’s called returning it with topspin. You’d understand that if you weren’t 108.

[89Hen]

[houndawg]

Why.. I do believe young clenzy touched a nerve there...

No, that’s called returning it with topspin. You’d understand that if you weren’t 108.

You're the one that just got smoked by young clenz, don't try to deflect, loser.

[Ivytalk]

Looks like Chris Christie.

[AZGrizFan]

No, that’s called returning it with topspin. You’d understand that if you weren’t 108.

You're the one that just got smoked by young clenz, don't try to deflect, loser.

Yes, I feel so injured. Kind of like the China virus….you gotta have someone TELL you you have it.

[clenz]

Touche!


Back to you Z.....

Well, let’s see….that one went through our court system and was determined to be self defense.

Is that what Alec Baldwin is going to claim?

Back to you, dipshit.

Potter went through trial and you still claimed she shouldn't bein jail

Which one is it?

I don't know if Baldwin should be in jail. I've said I'm willing to see the evidence and make a decision. I'm not tied to a "should or shouldn't be" based on the position the person holds (LEO or not) or political beliefs.

Potter went, by her own admission and every other form of testimony in the trial, against every single piece of training she has received in 26 years of patroling. She was unable to handle a "crisis" situation, having spent over 12 years on crisis response and hostage negotiation team. There was a stop made, that by her own admission, should not have been made. Zero evidence, and zero action on her part, point to her not being the prime candidate for a prison sentence for killing someone.

As I've said, if evidence comes out that Baldwin actively took steps to avoid every single piece of safety training he has ever received. If he actively took steps to endanger lives that would not have otherwise been taken in that situation. If any of that kind of evidence comes out, I'll be one of the first to say he belongs in jail.

The reason I bring up the fact you keep going "he pointed it at the camera and people" is because you are doing so to try to make some sort of point, without saying it. You are trying to make it seem like he was just fucking around and going all 8-year-old playing cowboy and point the gun at random points and going "BANG BANG BANG YOU'RE DEAD" and then finally pulled the trigger. I said it is important to know the reason he was pointed at the camera. camera operator, and director, is to know if he was truly being reckless in his actions or they were all taking steps to rehearse the scene, moves through the scene, lighting, camera movements, to see if what would actually be recorded is what the vision/shot was supposed to be. That is also important to know because it will help show potential motive, potential reckless behavior, potential criminal liability.

Because of who it is, because of what his political beliefs are, and because of shots he has taken in media at Trump you, and thousands of others, LOVE that it happened to him, that much is clear. You don't get a single fuck what actually happened. You just want to see him go down in flames because it would be a kind of poetic justice in your mind.

I wasn't on set. I don't know how/why that gun ended up being loaded with a live round. We can sit here and go "every gun is always loaded until you know it isn't". Fine. You aren't wrong. I remember my hunting safety class in 7th grade too. Should he have still verified? Sure. Yes. Would he know the difference in a blank round and a live round if he looked at it? I have no idea. I don't know the difference between that type of gun, that kind of ammo, etc. if there is a difference that would be instantly noticeable. I would believe it would be noticeable, but a quick Google shows there is a fuck ton of blanks that looks insanely similar to live rounds. Do we know that he didn't take steps, as outlined in production safety regulations, to check? I'll be honest, if I'm an actor and I'm on a set and I'm handed a gun from the team whose only job is to keep the guns from being loaded with live rounds, and to your knowledge, there were no live rounds on set, then I am willing to trust there isn't a live round. Maybe I should go to jail for that as well. I also don't handle guns enough to be willing to be that comfortable with it. I guess the difference could come in that Baldwin has been on set filing for a not-insignificant amount of time, again with zero reasons to believe that he would be handed a gun with live rounds.

Now, show me evidence that he was actively involved with live rounds being on set, live rounds being in that gun, and intentionally firing live rounds at Hutchins and Souza and I'll 100% back the calls for jail time for Baldwin.

[AZGrizFan]

Well, let’s see….that one went through our court system and was determined to be self defense.

Is that what Alec Baldwin is going to claim?

Back to you, dipshit.

Potter went through trial and you still claimed she shouldn't bein jail

Which one is it?

I don't know if Baldwin should be in jail. I've said I'm willing to see the evidence and make a decision. I'm not tied to a "should or shouldn't be" based on the position the person holds (LEO or not) or political beliefs.

Potter went, by her own admission and every other form of testimony in the trial, against every single piece of training she has received in 26 years of patroling. She was unable to handle a "crisis" situation, having spent over 12 years on crisis response and hostage negotiation team. There was a stop made, that by her own admission, should not have been made. Zero evidence, and zero action on her part, point to her not being the prime candidate for a prison sentence for killing someone.

As I've said, if evidence comes out that Baldwin actively took steps to avoid every single piece of safety training he has ever received. If he actively took steps to endanger lives that would not have otherwise been taken in that situation. If any of that kind of evidence comes out, I'll be one of the first to say he belongs in jail.

The reason I bring up the fact you keep going "he pointed it at the camera and people" is because you are doing so to try to make some sort of point, without saying it. You are trying to make it seem like he was just fucking around and going all 8-year-old playing cowboy and point the gun at random points and going "BANG BANG BANG YOU'RE DEAD" and then finally pulled the trigger. I said it is important to know the reason he was pointed at the camera. camera operator, and director, is to know if he was truly being reckless in his actions or they were all taking steps to rehearse the scene, moves through the scene, lighting, camera movements, to see if what would actually be recorded is what the vision/shot was supposed to be. That is also important to know because it will help show potential motive, potential reckless behavior, potential criminal liability.

Because of who it is, because of what his political beliefs are, and because of shots he has taken in media at Trump you, and thousands of others, LOVE that it happened to him, that much is clear. You don't get a single fuck what actually happened. You just want to see him go down in flames because it would be a kind of poetic justice in your mind.

I wasn't on set. I don't know how/why that gun ended up being loaded with a live round. We can sit here and go "every gun is always loaded until you know it isn't". Fine. You aren't wrong. I remember my hunting safety class in 7th grade too. Should he have still verified? Sure. Yes. Would he know the difference in a blank round and a live round if he looked at it? I have no idea. I don't know the difference between that type of gun, that kind of ammo, etc. if there is a difference that would be instantly noticeable. I would believe it would be noticeable, but a quick Google shows there is a fuck ton of blanks that looks insanely similar to live rounds. Do we know that he didn't take steps, as outlined in production safety regulations, to check? I'll be honest, if I'm an actor and I'm on a set and I'm handed a gun from the team whose only job is to keep the guns from being loaded with live rounds, and to your knowledge, there were no live rounds on set, then I am willing to trust there isn't a live round. Maybe I should go to jail for that as well. I also don't handle guns enough to be willing to be that comfortable with it. I guess the difference could come in that Baldwin has been on set filing for a not-insignificant amount of time, again with zero reasons to believe that he would be handed a gun with live rounds.

Now, show me evidence that he was actively involved with live rounds being on set, live rounds being in that gun, and intentionally firing live rounds at Hutchins and Souza and I'll 100% back the calls for jail time for Baldwin.

Incorrect. I was claiming that before the trial was completed.

She didn’t intentionally fire a live round either, by the way.

[clenz]

She broke every police protocol, including conducting an illegal stop, drew a weapon on an unarmed individual that she had not identified and posed zero threat to the life or well being of an officer, moved around the vehicle to get herself involved in a situation that she should not have been getting involved with, and fired the weapon at that person while they were in the driver's seat of a vehicle that was on

But yeah, go off about she was just doing what was necessary and shouldn't be held fully accountable.

So again, prove to me that Baldwin did all of that, in regard to the protocol that was in place, and fired the weapon with the intent to injure (in the legal sense of the word because that will be important in a trial) and we can talk about his prison sentence.

[AZGrizFan]

She broke every police protocol, including conducting an illegal stop, drew a weapon on an unarmed individual that she had not identified and posed zero threat to the life or well being of an officer, moved around the vehicle to get herself involved in a situation that she should not have been getting involved with, and fired the weapon at that person while they were in the driver's seat of a vehicle that was on

But yeah, go off about she was just doing what was necessary and shouldn't be held fully accountable.

So again, prove to me that Baldwin did all of that, in regard to the protocol that was in place, and fired the weapon with the intent to injure (in the legal sense of the word because that will be important in a trial) and we can talk about his prison sentence.

Was it an illegal stop? Or just an unnecessary one? What made it illegal?