Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

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Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by kalm »

It’s happened before but it’s probably not exactly an ideal situation. The migratory part of climate change has already been happening. Desperation can lead to some discomfort…and it’s portable.
No one lives here anymore. The mud-brick buildings are empty, just husks of the human life that became impossible on this land. Wind whips through bone-dry reeds. For miles, there’s no water to be seen.

Carved from an ancient land once known as Mesopotamia, Iraq is home to the cradle of civilization — the expanse between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers where the first complex human communities emerged.

But as climate change produces extreme warming and water grows scarcer around the Middle East, the land here is drying up. Across Iraq’s south, there is a sense of an ending.

Dozens of farming villages are abandoned, but for an isolated family here and there. The intrusion of saltwater is poisoning lands that have been passed for generations from fathers to sons. The United Nations recently estimated that more than 100 square miles of farmland a year are being lost to desert.

Years of below-average rainfall have left Iraqi farmers more dependent than ever on the dwindling waters of the Tigris and Euphrates. But upstream, Turkey and Iran have dammed their own waterways in the past two years, further weakening the southern flow, so a salty current from the Persian Gulf now pushes northward and into Iraq’s rivers. The salt has reached as far as the northern edge of Basra, some 85 miles inland.

In the historic marshes, meanwhile, men are clinging to what remains of life as they knew it as their buffaloes die and their wives and children scatter across nearby cities, no longer able to stand the summer heat.

Temperatures in Iraq topped a record 125 degrees this summer with aid groups warning that drought was limiting access to food, water and electricity for 12 million people here and in neighboring Syria. With Iraq warming faster than much of the globe, this is a glimpse of the world’s future.

Stay or Go?

Across marshes often hailed as the original Garden of Eden and on the baking lands beyond, inhabitants now face a choice. “Do we stay or do we go?” sighed Raad al-Ghali, a buffalo herder in the historic marshland of Chibayish while recently sheltering in the shadow beside his tent.

“Everyone is suffering these days. We don’t know what to do.”

In Chibayish’s labyrinth of winding waterways, water levels have dropped. Salt and pollution are killing the reeds. To keep their animals alive, residents fill rickety boats with drinking water purchased miles away.

Nearby fields have turned brown. Orchards and roses have disappeared, and the palm trees are dying slowly. In the border town of Siba, water for irrigation is so salty it is poisoning the harvest.

“We used to grow greenhouses of cucumbers,” recalled a farmer, Abu Ahmed, 52, standing in his desiccated farm. “Now we don’t even have a single cucumber’s worth of fresh water. How can we continue here?”

The impact of rising temperatures started slowly, people recall. Year after year, the summers got hotter. Days on the water felt more difficult, and cases of heat stroke increased, according to residents. Buffaloes fell sick. Fish were found dead on the shore.

In previous summers, Ghali’s animals were tended by his wife and sons, but this year they left for the town of al-Majer, 70 miles to the north. “They were tired of it here. It was too hot for them. Sometimes we feel like we’re the last generation who will do this. We feel like it’s the end of an era.”

Ghali’s hair had grayed at his temples, framing wrinkles deepened by the sun. The 40-year-old looked exhausted.

Could he sell the animals and move, too? He shook his head. “No one would buy them now.”

He looked out across the mud flats where his black buffaloes stood sweating.

“We never thought things would reach this point,” he said.

Migration Increasing

Iraq’s average temperature has risen by 4.1 degrees Fahrenheit since the end of the 19th century, according to Berkeley Earth, double the speed of the Earth as a whole. Climate scientists warn that the extreme temperatures facing places like southern Iraq are a small taste of what will follow elsewhere.

Iraq’s climate woes have exacerbated shortages in everything from food to electricity generation. Fisheries have been depleted. In the country’s north, wheat production is expected to decline by 70 percent, aid groups say. In provinces without access to rivers, families are spending ever larger portions of their monthly income on drinking water.

The result, increasingly, is migration. According to the International Organization of Migration, more than 20,000 Iraqis were displaced by lack of access to clean water in 2019, most of them in the country’s south.

But as they flee to towns and cities, they’re further straining services already hollowed out by widespread corruption and weak job markets where unemployment is high.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in ... h__inwrvOI
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by AZGrizFan »

There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
It will still have impacts.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:24 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
It will still have impacts.
It will, because we've been attempting (as a civilization) to cram square pegs into round holes for the past 200+ years, with the areas that CAN support human life attempting to provide for those areas that CAN'T (Ethiopia, Sudan come immediately to top of mind).

We either stop the attempt to defeat Mother Nature, or we quit bitching. But we both know neither of those will happen.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:24 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
It will still have impacts.
kalm wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:08 am You can either attempt to deny change and growl at what the world is becoming or attenpt to apply some equanimity and be less bitter about things. Regardless of what you think is fair or important.
:coffee:
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by HI54UNI »

So Turkey and Iran building dams on their waterways is climate change. Got it.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by AZGrizFan »

HI54UNI wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:55 am So Turkey and Iran building dams on their waterways is climate change. Got it.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey man. Their climate CHANGED. That's all they know. And it's all that's important. :dunce: :dunce:
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:49 am
kalm wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:24 am

It will still have impacts.
kalm wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:08 am You can either attempt to deny change and growl at what the world is becoming or attenpt to apply some equanimity and be less bitter about things. Regardless of what you think is fair or important.
:coffee:
I’m neither denying nor bitter. Just showing reality.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:29 am
kalm wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:24 am

It will still have impacts.
It will, because we've been attempting (as a civilization) to cram square pegs into round holes for the past 200+ years, with the areas that CAN support human life attempting to provide for those areas that CAN'T (Ethiopia, Sudan come immediately to top of mind).

We either stop the attempt to defeat Mother Nature, or we quit bitching. But we both know neither of those will happen.
Yes. And we still have to deal with it.

Btw, people have lived in those environments for longer than 200 years. And we have a better understanding of climate and how we impact nature.
Last edited by kalm on Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
the American desert?
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by UNI88 »

Ibanez wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:07 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
the American desert?
Arizona?
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by Ibanez »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:37 am
Ibanez wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:07 am

the American desert?
Arizona?
Even parts of California. A lot of their growth has to do with water being diverted from other areas for life to be sustained there.

Just a thought...
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by 89Hen »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada....
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by Gil Dobie »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
It's believed that just 6000 years ago, the Sahara Desert was a grassland, but climate change occurred.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:44 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada....
Cali.

And all the rest of us who enjoy their delicious fruits and veges.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by Baldy »

Gil Dobie wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:44 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
It's believed that just 6000 years ago, the Sahara Desert was a grassland, but climate change occurred.
Damn Egyptians and their pyramid building scheme. :ohno:
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by CAA Flagship »

89Hen wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:44 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada....
......and the wastelands. :coffee:
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by UNI88 »

CAA Flagship wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:21 am
89Hen wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:44 am
Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada....
......and the wastelands of the Anacostia. :coffee:
:nod:
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by houndawg »

Gil Dobie wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:44 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
It's believed that just 6000 years ago, the Sahara Desert was a grassland, but climate change occurred.
and goats were a big player
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by Col Hogan »

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It is possible to survive in a situation that Iraq is finding itself in these days…all it would take is to establish a peaceful relationship with a country to its west…
Agriculture in Israel is an incredibly evolved industry although its importance in Israel’s overall financial system is relatively less, with its contribution to GDP merely 16 per cent in 2020. Israel is a prime exporter of fresh produce and a world-leader in agriculture technologies, even though the country’s geographical environment is not conducive to agriculture development. Over half of Israel’s territory is desert, only 20% of the surface is naturally cultivable. But with its innovative investments in agro-industry they made the deserts bloom.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel- ... rts-bloom/

And the Israelis have proven that they are more than willing to export their expertise…like with the experimental farm being established in the South Sudan

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https://www.israel21c.org/why-the-futur ... ls-desert/
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by houndawg »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
The point being that the number and size of those areas are both increasing. You're welcome.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by kalm »

Col Hogan wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:54 pm Image

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It is possible to survive in a situation that Iraq is finding itself in these days…all it would take is to establish a peaceful relationship with a country to its west…
Agriculture in Israel is an incredibly evolved industry although its importance in Israel’s overall financial system is relatively less, with its contribution to GDP merely 16 per cent in 2020. Israel is a prime exporter of fresh produce and a world-leader in agriculture technologies, even though the country’s geographical environment is not conducive to agriculture development. Over half of Israel’s territory is desert, only 20% of the surface is naturally cultivable. But with its innovative investments in agro-industry they made the deserts bloom.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel- ... rts-bloom/

And the Israelis have proven that they are more than willing to export their expertise…like with the experimental farm being established in the South Sudan

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https://www.israel21c.org/why-the-futur ... ls-desert/
You do realize where words like kibbutz and sustainable lead, don’t you? They lead straight to communism! :ohno:
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Good articles, Hoagie. Thanks for sharing them!)
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

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Gil Dobie wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:44 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:23 am There are places on this earth where humans shouldn't live. Most of Africa, parts of the middle east, Antarctica.....it ain't rocket science.
It's believed that just 6000 years ago, the Sahara Desert was a grassland, but climate change occurred.
Goddamn fossil fuels!!!
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:08 am
89Hen wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:44 am

Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada....
Cali.

And all the rest of us who enjoy their delicious fruits and veges.
Partially true. The Central valley has/had a massive aqueduct that the farmers have tapped into. But yes, all of SoCal is one giant desert. Cadillac Desert is a good read that explains the water rights issues and projects that allowed SoCal to be what it is today.
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Re: Darling, you’ve got to let me know…

Post by Ibanez »

SDHornet wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:29 am
kalm wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:08 am

Cali.

And all the rest of us who enjoy their delicious fruits and veges.
Partially true. The Central valley has/had a massive aqueduct that the farmers have tapped into. But yes, all of SoCal is one giant desert. Cadillac Desert is a good read that explains the water rights issues and projects that allowed SoCal to be what it is today.
I'll check that out. :thumb:

60 Minutes last night had a good segment on this..the sheer drop in volume at the Lakes Mead (already down 50 ft this year) and Powell and the Colorado River in general should be warning enough that something is wrong and needs to change. The water laws out there, also, make zero sense. Arizona has to completely cut off any water usage but California doesn't? :suspicious:

The simple fact that farming wouldn't exist in those areas w/o human intervention and infrastructure should tell you all you need to know.
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