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CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:36 am

kalm wrote:
People who want to sweep history under the rug and/or feel shame and anger when confronted with other’s experiences and observations.

You just bull your way through when anyone points out that objections to CRT are not objections to teaching slavery.

It’s dishonest.

Where are the people who don’t want the history of slavery and segregation taught in schools?


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kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:44 am

CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:36 am
You just bull your way through when anyone points out that objections to CRT are not objections to teaching slavery.

It’s dishonest.

Where are the people who don’t want the history of slavery and segregation taught in schools?


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I would think mostly in the south and in conservative quarters.

Again…you and most people on here aren’t the target. That doesn’t mean it’s honestly understood by enough people.

Let’s provide an accurate portrayal of history.

Agreed?

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:44 am

CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:36 am
You just bull your way through when anyone points out that objections to CRT are not objections to teaching slavery.

It’s dishonest.

Where are the people who don’t want the history of slavery and segregation taught in schools?

I would think mostly in the south and in conservative quarters.

Again…you and most people on here aren’t the target. That doesn’t mean it’s honestly understood by enough people.

Let’s provide an accurate portrayal of history.

Agreed?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:55 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:44 am

I would think mostly in the south and in conservative quarters.

Again…you and most people on here aren’t the target. That doesn’t mean it’s honestly understood by enough people.

Let’s provide an accurate portrayal of history.

Agreed?

Mostly in the south and in conservative quarters? Just like the "push to not just teach the history but to also teach that skin color in this country is the determining factor of success or inclusion in this country, that racial victimhood is baked in and permanent based on race, and that radical steps must be taken to even the field" is mostly in the northeast/west coast and in progressive quarters?

CID is right, "young children do not need to be taught to view each other as victims or oppressors, but as equals in a free society that has its flaws and mechanisms for fixing those flaws."

The ctrl-left is just as illiberal as the alt-right. We need to stand up to both extremes.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:47 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:55 am

Mostly in the south and in conservative quarters? Just like the "push to not just teach the history but to also teach that skin color in this country is the determining factor of success or inclusion in this country, that racial victimhood is baked in and permanent based on race, and that radical steps must be taken to even the field" is mostly in the northeast/west coast and in progressive quarters?

CID is right, "young children do not need to be taught to view each other as victims or oppressors, but as equals in a free society that has its flaws and mechanisms for fixing those flaws."

The ctrl-left is just as illiberal as the alt-right. We need to stand up to both extremes.

Why not both? Are you suggesting it’s impossible to teach accurate history without encouraging victim hood? That’s fascinating.

Oh…and I’m sorry I regionalized and politicized it.

I should know better as I live next to North Alabama and have a place by Seattle.

kalm wrote:

CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:36 am You just bull your way through when anyone points out that objections to CRT are not objections to teaching slavery.

It’s dishonest.

Where are the people who don’t want the history of slavery and segregation taught in schools?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would think mostly in the south and in conservative quarters.

Again…you and most people on here aren’t the target. That doesn’t mean it’s honestly understood by enough people.

Let’s provide an accurate portrayal of history.

Agreed?

CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:09 pm

kalm wrote:
I would think mostly in the south and in conservative quarters.

Again…you and most people on here aren’t the target. That doesn’t mean it’s honestly understood by enough people.

Let’s provide an accurate portrayal of history.

Agreed?

You obviously are not reading my posts.

Nobody is arguing against teaching the racial history of this country in schools. Nobody.

Slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, the civil rights movement - all are now and have for many years been taught in public schools and nobody is protesting that.

Please link to people arguing that this history should not be taught in schools.


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kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:47 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:55 am
Mostly in the south and in conservative quarters? Just like the "push to not just teach the history but to also teach that skin color in this country is the determining factor of success or inclusion in this country, that racial victimhood is baked in and permanent based on race, and that radical steps must be taken to even the field" is mostly in the northeast/west coast and in progressive quarters?

CID is right, "young children do not need to be taught to view each other as victims or oppressors, but as equals in a free society that has its flaws and mechanisms for fixing those flaws."

The ctrl-left is just as illiberal as the alt-right. We need to stand up to both extremes.

Why not both? Are you suggesting it’s impossible to teach accurate history without encouraging victim hood? That’s fascinating.

Oh…and I’m sorry I regionalized and politicized it.

I should know better as I live next to North Alabama and have a place by Seattle.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:06 pm

CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:09 pm

You obviously are not reading my posts.

Nobody is arguing against teaching the racial history of this country in schools. Nobody.

Slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, the civil rights movement - all are now and have for many years been taught in public schools and nobody is protesting that.

Please link to people arguing that this history should not be taught in schools.


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Right after you link to where victim hood is being taught.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:48 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:47 pm

Why not both? Are you suggesting it’s impossible to teach accurate history without encouraging victim hood? That’s fascinating.

Oh…and I’m sorry I regionalized and politicized it.

I should know better as I live next to North Alabama and have a place by Seattle.

Why not both what?

No, I am not suggesting that it's impossible to teach "teach accurate history without encouraging victim hood." Quite the opposite, I would argue that encouraging victimhood interferes with teaching accurate history.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:28 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:48 pm
Why not both what?

No, I am not suggesting that it's impossible to teach "teach accurate history without encouraging victim hood." Quite the opposite, I would argue that encouraging victimhood interferes with teaching accurate history.

Sorry…my poor wording.

We agree then. It’s ok to teach history. Victimhood does not need to be a part of the curriculum.

So are we actually teaching victimhood as part of the curriculum? And how so?

Dr. Dorian Abbot, a geophysical sciences associate professor at the University of Chicago, was slated to deliver the John Carlson Lecture, which is billed by MIT as an annual lecture meant to communicate "exciting new results in climate science to the general public," in light of his research on climate change. But MIT retracted his invitation, not because of the content of his planned lecture, but instead after activists and MIT academics took issue with Abbot's past comments arguing academic evaluations should be based on merit, not on race or ethnic identity.

"I am a professor who just had a prestigious public science lecture at MIT cancelled because of an outrage mob on Twitter," Abbot wrote. "This is not a partisan issue. Anyone who is interested in the pursuit of truth and in promoting a healthy and functioning society has a stake in this debate. Speaking out now may seem risky. But the cost of remaining silent is far steeper."

But there is more to this story than meets the eye. For although most outlets have covered Abbot’s disinvitation as but the latest example of an illiberal culture on campus, it is qualitatively different from other recent instances in which invitations have been rescinded—and suggests that the scope of censorship is continuing to morph and expand.
...
Back in August, Abbot and a colleague criticized affirmative action and other ways to give candidates for admission or employment a leg up on the basis of their ethnic or racial identity in Newsweek. In their place, Abbot advocated what he calls a Merit, Fairness, and Equality (MFE) framework in which applicants would be “treated as individuals and evaluated through a rigorous and unbiased process based on their merit and qualifications alone.” This, Abbot emphasized, would also entail “an end to legacy and athletic admission advantages, which significantly favor white applicants.”
...
Even so, it is patently absurd to cancel a lecture on climate change because of Abbot’s article in Newsweek. If every cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich were grounds for canceling talks, hundreds of professors—and thousands of op-ed columnists—would no longer be welcome on campus.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:05 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:28 pm

Sorry…my poor wording.

We agree then. It’s ok to teach history. Victimhood does not need to be a part of the curriculum.

So are we actually teaching victimhood as part of the curriculum? And how so?

We're teaching victimhood when we teach CRT without context and in-depth discussion. It might be appropriate for a high school AP class but it is not appropriate for an elementary or middle school class. And to be honest, based on some of the protests that occur at colleges and universities, I'm not sure all college students or professors can handle the context and open debate.

That discussion should allow people to express their opinions and learn from each other. Unfortunately certain opinions that would contribute to the discussion and learning are not welcome. Look what happened to Professor Dorian Abbott at MIT.

Dr. Dorian Abbot, a geophysical sciences associate professor at the University of Chicago, was slated to deliver the John Carlson Lecture, which is billed by MIT as an annual lecture meant to communicate "exciting new results in climate science to the general public," in light of his research on climate change. But MIT retracted his invitation, not because of the content of his planned lecture, but instead after activists and MIT academics took issue with Abbot's past comments arguing academic evaluations should be based on merit, not on race or ethnic identity.

"I am a professor who just had a prestigious public science lecture at MIT cancelled because of an outrage mob on Twitter," Abbot wrote. "This is not a partisan issue. Anyone who is interested in the pursuit of truth and in promoting a healthy and functioning society has a stake in this debate. Speaking out now may seem risky. But the cost of remaining silent is far steeper."

Why the Latest Campus Cancellation Is Different

But there is more to this story than meets the eye. For although most outlets have covered Abbot’s disinvitation as but the latest example of an illiberal culture on campus, it is qualitatively different from other recent instances in which invitations have been rescinded—and suggests that the scope of censorship is continuing to morph and expand.
...
Back in August, Abbot and a colleague criticized affirmative action and other ways to give candidates for admission or employment a leg up on the basis of their ethnic or racial identity in Newsweek. In their place, Abbot advocated what he calls a Merit, Fairness, and Equality (MFE) framework in which applicants would be “treated as individuals and evaluated through a rigorous and unbiased process based on their merit and qualifications alone.” This, Abbot emphasized, would also entail “an end to legacy and athletic admission advantages, which significantly favor white applicants.”
...
Even so, it is patently absurd to cancel a lecture on climate change because of Abbot’s article in Newsweek. If every cringeworthy analogy to the Third Reich were grounds for canceling talks, hundreds of professors—and thousands of op-ed columnists—would no longer be welcome on campus.

The NDA is required to be signed by parents who want to review the “Second Step” curriculum. Parents are required to acknowledge that the presentation of the material is “not a public event” and that “copying, broadcast or recording of any kind is prohibited.”
...
The NDA document is billed as the “terms and conditions” agreement, citing copyright as the reason for requiring the document. But a Loudoun County parent told the Daily Caller that a number of other organizations, including the Southern Poverty Law Center, provide copyrighted material to Loudoun County Public Schools without requiring parents to sign a document to review them.

A tiny snapshot of the curriculum is available on the LCPS website but is limited to only a few slides. The Daily Caller also reported that the agreement between the school district and Second Step exempts the curriculum from Virginia Freedom of Information Act requests.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:37 am Loudoun County parents required to sign type of NDA to view CRT-affiliated curriculum

The NDA is required to be signed by parents who want to review the “Second Step” curriculum. Parents are required to acknowledge that the presentation of the material is “not a public event” and that “copying, broadcast or recording of any kind is prohibited.”
...
The NDA document is billed as the “terms and conditions” agreement, citing copyright as the reason for requiring the document. But a Loudoun County parent told the Daily Caller that a number of other organizations, including the Southern Poverty Law Center, provide copyrighted material to Loudoun County Public Schools without requiring parents to sign a document to review them.

A tiny snapshot of the curriculum is available on the LCPS website but is limited to only a few slides. The Daily Caller also reported that the agreement between the school district and Second Step exempts the curriculum from Virginia Freedom of Information Act requests.

A school district agreement exempting the curriculum from FOIA requests?

Cooper also said that she wants to say, “We gotta take these motherf*****s out,” but that she can’t because “I don’t believe in a project of violence” and that “our souls would suffer” from doing so.

“I think that white people are committed to being villains in the aggregate,” she said.

The Root Institute’s description of the session says that Cooper “notes that, contrary to what history-challenged white supremacists would have us believe, children are quite capable of understanding the concepts behind the theory.”

Despite the description, Harriot said that “no one is applying critical race theory to sixth graders in Iowa, because that’s not how critical race theory works,” before adding that doing so would be like trying to “teach a little league soccer team how to run a major league offense.”

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:41 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:37 am Loudoun County parents required to sign type of NDA to view CRT-affiliated curriculum

A school district agreement exempting the curriculum from FOIA requests?

How can a school district just announce that they aren't covered by the state's (or commonwealth's) FOIA laws? Did the school district nullify that law? How Virginian.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:48 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:41 am

How can a school district just announce that they aren't covered by the state's (or commonwealth's) FOIA laws? Did the school district nullify that law? How Virginian.

That one floored me. Any curriculum that is exempt from FOIA is a curriculum that shouldn't be considered much less taught.

SDHornet wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:56 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:48 am
That one floored me. Any curriculum that is exempt from FOIA is a curriculum that shouldn't be considered much less taught.

These are the same people that said parents input in their children's education isn't important (paraphrasing)...

...oh and that Loundon County School Board that covered up those rapes story...yikes...

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:58 pm
Oh FFS. We've come full circle.

SDHornet wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:56 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:48 am

That one floored me. Any curriculum that is exempt from FOIA is a curriculum that shouldn't be considered much less taught.

These are the same people that said parents input in their children's education isn't important (paraphrasing)...

...oh and that Loundon County School Board that covered up those rapes story...yikes...

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:40 pm

SDHornet wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:56 pm

These are the same people that said parents input in their children's education isn't important (paraphrasing)...

...oh and that Loundon County School Board that covered up those rapes story...yikes...

From my experience as a parent and 5+ years as a substitute teacher, parental involvement is probably the most critical factor in a student's success. A good group of friends is second and quality school is third. Educators who don't think parental input is important aren't good educators and/or are more focused on indoctrination than education.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:27 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:58 pm
Oh FFS. We've come full circle.

Kalm is putting on a clinic on how to dance.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:37 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:40 pm

From my experience as a parent and 5+ years as a substitute teacher, parental involvement is probably the most critical factor in a student's success. A good group of friends is second and quality school is third. Educators who don't think parental input is important aren't good educators and/or are more focused on indoctrination than education.

Well said. I have talked to a couple of teachers that I respect, in that they are their for the kids and truly love to teach, and they said the same thing.

Your last sentence hits on what the Government push into Education has always been about.

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:43 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:27 am

Kalm is putting on a clinic on how to dance.

I have no sense of rhythm. I mean like zero. Which makes learning guitar quite difficult. And I hate dancing.

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:49 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:37 am

Well said. I have talked to a couple of teachers that I respect, in that they are their for the kids and truly love to teach, and they said the same thing.

Your last sentence hits on what the Government push into Education has always been about.

There’s little wrong with our education system…if you live in a good district. It’s tough to be involved working one’s ass off full time or lacking the means to advance yourself as a human.

Parenting and managing a household done right is a full time job. But the economy and employers want two income households.

We need more condom use or/and stay at home parents.