Critical Race Theory

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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:22 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:33 am Racism is a part of our history and culture. That should be taught and taught with accuracy and probably from multiple perspectives. Not to make anyone feel better or worse…just for the sake of accuracy and cultural honesty.
HARD STOP!!!!! Racism in the US IS and SHOULD be taught that it's a part of our history. HOWEVER, CRT is ABSOLUTELY MEANT to make certain people feel better AND worse.

I seriously can't believe you don't understand what the CRT argument is about. :suspicious:
Like I’ve said before IF that’s what’s actually being taught, I’m obviously against it. How prevalent is it? Is that really what it’s “meant” to do?

“Fox News has mentioned “critical race theory” 1,300 times in less than four months. Why? Because critical race theory (CRT) has become a new boogie man for people unwilling to acknowledge our country’s racist history and how it impacts the present.

To understand why CRT has become such a flash point in the culture, it is important to understand what it is and what it is not. Opponents fear that CRT admonishes all white people for being oppressors while classifying all Black people as hopelessly oppressed victims. These fears have spurred school boards and state legislatures from Tennessee to Idaho to ban teachings about racism in classrooms. However, there is a fundamental problem: these narratives about CRT are gross exaggerations of the theoretical framework. The broad brush that is being applied to CRT is puzzling to academics, including some of the scholars who coined and advanced the framework.

CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people. Simply put, critical race theory states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race. Sociologists and other scholars have long noted that racism can exist without racists. However, many Americans are not able to separate their individual identity as an American from the social institutions that govern us—these people perceive themselves as the system. Consequently, they interpret calling social institutions racist as calling them racist personally. It speaks to how normative racial ideology is to American identity that some people just cannot separate the two. There are also people who may recognize America’s racist past but have bought into the false narrative that the U.S. is now an equitable democracy. They are simply unwilling to remove the blind spot obscuring the fact that America is still not great for everyone.
Scholars and activists who discuss CRT are not arguing that white people living now are to blame for what people did in the past. They are saying that white people living now have a moral responsibility to do something about how racism still impacts all of our lives today. Policies attempting to suffocate this much-needed national conversation are an obstacle to the pursuit of an equitable democracy. Supporters of CRT bans often quote Martin Luther King Jr’s proclamation that individuals should be viewed by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, ignoring the context of the quote and the true meaning behind it.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brooki ... heory/amp/
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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Yes, yes. The WHOLE world is stacked against minorities. That’s why so many of them come here and succeed. What’s “normative” is pulling out the “victim” card or the “racist” card every time something doesn’t go your way. THAT has become flat out accepted by the left.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by UNI88 »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:30 pm
Baldy wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:52 pm
No he isn't. You're obviously the one who doesn't know what fascism is.

Trump is a lot of horrible things, but a fascist isn't one.
I know what fascism is. Trump was not able to implement it because of our system. But he's a fascist. If he'd had his way he would indeed have assumed power as a dictator, implemented authoritarian ultranationalism, forcibly suppressed opposition, etc. No reasonable doubt about it.
If we apply a similar standard of evidence that Kalm is requiring to prove that CRT is being taught in schools to the Trump is a fascist debate then you need video of Trump admitting to being a fascist.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by JohnStOnge »

UNI88 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:51 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:30 pm

I know what fascism is. Trump was not able to implement it because of our system. But he's a fascist. If he'd had his way he would indeed have assumed power as a dictator, implemented authoritarian ultranationalism, forcibly suppressed opposition, etc. No reasonable doubt about it.
If we apply a similar standard of evidence that Kalm is requiring to prove that CRT is being taught in schools to the Trump is a fascist debate then you need video of Trump admitting to being a fascist.
I don't know enough about Critical Race Theory or the details of what is being taught in schools right now to know to know whether Critical Race Theory is arguably taught in any K through 12 context. I just can see that there are some people who don't want to admit that there are warts on the history of the United States and that it is not all sweetness and light. It IS a story of Europeans coming to the Americas, brutally taking the land of the native inhabitants while killing off (directly and indirectly) the majority of them, and brutally enslaving people from Africa. All that happened. And for some reason there are a lot of people who don't want to contemplate that.

At the same time, I also think people should remember that, along with that, a situation developed in which a critical mass of the White people decided that slavery was wrong and ended it. The slaves were in no position to free themselves. Later on a criical mass of White people decided that things like Jim Crow laws were wrong and ended that. I think that slavery is an institution as old as civilization and it is western civilization that sought to end it and pretty much has.

I also think that genocide is as old as civilization. Groups conquered and eliminated other groups. I think it is western civilization that decided that is wrong and started taking steps to stop and/or discourage it.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:16 am
89Hen wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:22 pm

HARD STOP!!!!! Racism in the US IS and SHOULD be taught that it's a part of our history. HOWEVER, CRT is ABSOLUTELY MEANT to make certain people feel better AND worse.

I seriously can't believe you don't understand what the CRT argument is about. :suspicious:
Like I’ve said before IF that’s what’s actually being taught, I’m obviously against it. How prevalent is it? Is that really what it’s “meant” to do?

“Fox News has mentioned “critical race theory” 1,300 times in less than four months. Why? Because critical race theory (CRT) has become a new boogie man for people unwilling to acknowledge our country’s racist history and how it impacts the present.

To understand why CRT has become such a flash point in the culture, it is important to understand what it is and what it is not. Opponents fear that CRT admonishes all white people for being oppressors while classifying all Black people as hopelessly oppressed victims. These fears have spurred school boards and state legislatures from Tennessee to Idaho to ban teachings about racism in classrooms. However, there is a fundamental problem: these narratives about CRT are gross exaggerations of the theoretical framework. The broad brush that is being applied to CRT is puzzling to academics, including some of the scholars who coined and advanced the framework.

CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people. Simply put, critical race theory states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race. Sociologists and other scholars have long noted that racism can exist without racists. However, many Americans are not able to separate their individual identity as an American from the social institutions that govern us—these people perceive themselves as the system. Consequently, they interpret calling social institutions racist as calling them racist personally. It speaks to how normative racial ideology is to American identity that some people just cannot separate the two. There are also people who may recognize America’s racist past but have bought into the false narrative that the U.S. is now an equitable democracy. They are simply unwilling to remove the blind spot obscuring the fact that America is still not great for everyone.
Scholars and activists who discuss CRT are not arguing that white people living now are to blame for what people did in the past. They are saying that white people living now have a moral responsibility to do something about how racism still impacts all of our lives today. Policies attempting to suffocate this much-needed national conversation are an obstacle to the pursuit of an equitable democracy. Supporters of CRT bans often quote Martin Luther King Jr’s proclamation that individuals should be viewed by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, ignoring the context of the quote and the true meaning behind it.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brooki ... heory/amp/
You want me to look at CRT in its purest, theoretical form? That would be like me promoting capitalism in its purest, theoretical form without acknowledging the faults that occur with implementation such as crony capitalism.

I call bullshit on "Scholars and activists who discuss CRT are not arguing that white people living now are to blame for what people did in the past." There are scholars and activists that want to paint white people as oppressors, BIPOCs as victims and America itself as inherently racist.

Racism still exists in America and racism has made it more difficult for BIPOCs to succeed. We need to acknowledge and address the impacts of current and past racism but IMO placing the primary focus on racism is a mistake and will limit our ability to improve lives. Why? Because there are cultural barriers that are just as significant as racism that also need to be addressed. Placing too much of a focus on racism is a cop-out.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:09 pm
kalm wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:16 am

Like I’ve said before IF that’s what’s actually being taught, I’m obviously against it. How prevalent is it? Is that really what it’s “meant” to do?

“Fox News has mentioned “critical race theory” 1,300 times in less than four months. Why? Because critical race theory (CRT) has become a new boogie man for people unwilling to acknowledge our country’s racist history and how it impacts the present.

To understand why CRT has become such a flash point in the culture, it is important to understand what it is and what it is not. Opponents fear that CRT admonishes all white people for being oppressors while classifying all Black people as hopelessly oppressed victims. These fears have spurred school boards and state legislatures from Tennessee to Idaho to ban teachings about racism in classrooms. However, there is a fundamental problem: these narratives about CRT are gross exaggerations of the theoretical framework. The broad brush that is being applied to CRT is puzzling to academics, including some of the scholars who coined and advanced the framework.

CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people. Simply put, critical race theory states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race. Sociologists and other scholars have long noted that racism can exist without racists. However, many Americans are not able to separate their individual identity as an American from the social institutions that govern us—these people perceive themselves as the system. Consequently, they interpret calling social institutions racist as calling them racist personally. It speaks to how normative racial ideology is to American identity that some people just cannot separate the two. There are also people who may recognize America’s racist past but have bought into the false narrative that the U.S. is now an equitable democracy. They are simply unwilling to remove the blind spot obscuring the fact that America is still not great for everyone.
Scholars and activists who discuss CRT are not arguing that white people living now are to blame for what people did in the past. They are saying that white people living now have a moral responsibility to do something about how racism still impacts all of our lives today. Policies attempting to suffocate this much-needed national conversation are an obstacle to the pursuit of an equitable democracy. Supporters of CRT bans often quote Martin Luther King Jr’s proclamation that individuals should be viewed by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, ignoring the context of the quote and the true meaning behind it.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brooki ... heory/amp/
You want me to look at CRT in its purest, theoretical form? That would be like me promoting capitalism in its purest, theoretical form without acknowledging the faults that occur with implementation such as crony capitalism.

I call bullshit on "Scholars and activists who discuss CRT are not arguing that white people living now are to blame for what people did in the past." There are scholars and activists that want to paint white people as oppressors, BIPOCs as victims and America itself as inherently racist.

Racism still exists in America and racism has made it more difficult for BIPOCs to succeed. We need to acknowledge and address the impacts of current and past racism but IMO placing the primary focus on racism is a mistake and will limit our ability to improve lives. Why? Because there are cultural barriers that are just as significant as racism that also need to be addressed. Placing too much of a focus on racism is a cop-out.
That’s a better argument than what I’ve seen so far.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:30 pm
Baldy wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:52 pm
No he isn't. You're obviously the one who doesn't know what fascism is.

Trump is a lot of horrible things, but a fascist isn't one.
I know what fascism is. Trump was not able to implement it because of our system. But he's a fascist. If he'd had his way he would indeed have assumed power as a dictator, implemented authoritarian ultranationalism, forcibly suppressed opposition, etc. No reasonable doubt about it.
"If he'd had his way..." :roll:

No, you're just being your normal stupid silly self.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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BuT cRt IsNt TaUgHt In ScHoOlS

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Re: Critical Race Theory

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So being a military kid is considered a privilege? When dems on one hand claim the military is made up primarily of the poor white trash and minorities? NOW it’s a “privilege”? WTF?

Jesus H. Christ, these idiots wouldn’t know how to generate a cogent thought if it hit them over the head with a shovel.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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Youngkin cleaning house in VA’s “Diversity & Inclusion Department”, including naming CRT opponent as new Chief Diversity officer.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:29 pm So being a military kid is considered a privilege? When dems on one hand claim the military is made up primarily of the poor white trash and minorities? NOW it’s a “privilege”? WTF?

Jesus H. Christ, these idiots wouldn’t know how to generate a cogent thought if it hit them over the head with a shovel.
All of these distinctions that make someone privileged are confusing. Let's simplify down to one distinction: if you're from a family that is more likely to vote Republican then you are privileged. That's the hidden message, the true target.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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UNI88 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:54 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:29 pm So being a military kid is considered a privilege? When dems on one hand claim the military is made up primarily of the poor white trash and minorities? NOW it’s a “privilege”? WTF?

Jesus H. Christ, these idiots wouldn’t know how to generate a cogent thought if it hit them over the head with a shovel.
All of these distinctions that make someone privileged are confusing. Let's simplify down to one distinction: if you're from a family that is more likely to vote Republican then you are privileged. That's the hidden message, the true target.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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SDHornet wrote:BuT cRt IsNt TaUgHt In ScHoOlS

Funny

I’m not seeing anything in that photo that could be considered “history”

Maybe someone here can explain how taking issue with that graphic is being against teaching about slavery or the civil right movement… because I’m pretty sure I’ve been told that nobody is teaching CRT… just history


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Re: Critical Race Theory

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CID1990 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:13 am
SDHornet wrote:BuT cRt IsNt TaUgHt In ScHoOlS

Funny

I’m not seeing anything in that photo that could be considered “history”

Maybe someone here can explain how taking issue with that graphic is being against teaching about slavery or the civil right movement… because I’m pretty sure I’ve been told that nobody is teaching CRT… just history


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The history is that that course will BE history here very shortly. :nod: :nod:
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:13 am
SDHornet wrote:BuT cRt IsNt TaUgHt In ScHoOlS

Funny

I’m not seeing anything in that photo that could be considered “history”

Maybe someone here can explain how taking issue with that graphic is being against teaching about slavery or the civil right movement… because I’m pretty sure I’ve been told that nobody is teaching CRT… just history


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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by 89Hen »

IF that screenshot is really of something from a public HS, kalm and others can eat it. I'll consider this topic closed.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:40 am IF that screenshot is really of something from a public HS, kalm and others can eat it. I'll consider this topic closed.
Who knows…and of course you will. :lol:
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:42 am
89Hen wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:40 am IF that screenshot is really of something from a public HS, kalm and others can eat it. I'll consider this topic closed.
Who knows…and of course you will. :lol:
So you will still die on that hill that it's not being taught?
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:42 am Who knows…and of course you will. :lol:
So you will still die on that hill that it's not being taught?
Imagine a bunch of 12-13 year olds being taught according to that graphic.

How does that not single kids out and divide them? This garbage needs to be put down like a rabid dog.


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Re: Critical Race Theory

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CID1990 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:59 am
89Hen wrote:
So you will still die on that hill that it's not being taught?
Imagine a bunch of 12-13 year olds being taught according to that graphic.

How does that not single kids out and divide them? This garbage needs to be put down like a rabid dog.
How does it not tell kids who have the benefit of those "privileges" that they're bad and should be ashamed? How is that different from telling a black child that they're lazy, stupid and 3/5's a person.

Not only do you not have to tear down the "privileged" to empower the "oppressed" it's the wrong thing to do. You're just creating a future class of oppressed.

And to CID's earlier point, it isn't history.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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UNI88 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:19 am
CID1990 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:59 am
Imagine a bunch of 12-13 year olds being taught according to that graphic.

How does that not single kids out and divide them? This garbage needs to be put down like a rabid dog.
How does it not tell kids who have the benefit of those "privileges" that they're bad and should be ashamed? How is that different from telling a black child that they're lazy, stupid and 3/5's a person.
Which is exactly what Dems think of a Black person. “Too stupid to be able to get on the internet. Too poor to have a phone. Too lazy to get an ID. Unable to cope/live in society so we should lower all our standards to help these poor, unfortunate POC.”
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by Ibanez »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:42 am Who knows…and of course you will. :lol:
So you will still die on that hill that it's not being taught?
Stupid hill to die on.


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Re: Critical Race Theory

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'Corporate-sanctioned racism'? How war on critical race theory spread from schools to big business
“As part of that commitment, we have had sessions for our leaders and salaried managers that encourage reflection on the history of race in the US and systemic issues that Black and African American communities have faced,” McMillon said. “We have found those conversations to be constructive and thought-provoking. We don’t always agree with every comment made by every participant in a session or endorse every view on a PowerPoint slide produced by others, but the experience has been a net positive for us as we strive to create more opportunities for everyone.”
I'm not sure I buy the right's war on CRT in corporations. One, they're private enterprises, the government shouldn't be telling them how to train their employees. Two, their employees are adults.

Reflecting on "the history of race in the US and systemic issues that Black and African American communities have faced" is a good thing. Trying to make white people feel ashamed for who they are is not.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

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UNI88 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:51 pm 'Corporate-sanctioned racism'? How war on critical race theory spread from schools to big business
“As part of that commitment, we have had sessions for our leaders and salaried managers that encourage reflection on the history of race in the US and systemic issues that Black and African American communities have faced,” McMillon said. “We have found those conversations to be constructive and thought-provoking. We don’t always agree with every comment made by every participant in a session or endorse every view on a PowerPoint slide produced by others, but the experience has been a net positive for us as we strive to create more opportunities for everyone.”
I'm not sure I buy the right's war on CRT in corporations. One, they're private enterprises, the government shouldn't be telling them how to train their employees. Two, their employees are adults.

Reflecting on "the history of race in the US and systemic issues that Black and African American communities have faced" is a good thing. Trying to make white people feel ashamed for who they are is not.
Why limit it to black and AA communities?

And yes, private companies can do what they want and employees or potential employees can decide to work there or not.
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by UNI88 »

SDHornet wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:33 pm
UNI88 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:51 pm 'Corporate-sanctioned racism'? How war on critical race theory spread from schools to big business

I'm not sure I buy the right's war on CRT in corporations. One, they're private enterprises, the government shouldn't be telling them how to train their employees. Two, their employees are adults.

Reflecting on "the history of race in the US and systemic issues that Black and African American communities have faced" is a good thing. Trying to make white people feel ashamed for who they are is not.
Why limit it to black and AA communities?

And yes, private companies can do what they want and employees or potential employees can decide to work there or not.
How about reflecting on "the history of race in the US and systemic issues that various communities have faced" is a good thing?
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