COVID, Global warming, Evolution...all the same

[Winterborn]

I hope Farley is named HC for life.

X2!

[HI54UNI]

Don't be so hard on yourself. You're not completely insufferable ...

I hope Farley is named HC for life.

of Eastern Washington.

[Winterborn]

The next time you wonder how flat earthers and MAGAts can believe the stuff they do, just look back at that reply right there ^^^^

Mann's work has not been vindicated and will not be vindicated until his predictions come true, and they have not.

Hockey stick = pizza parlor child rape

Vindication is not the same as settled science.

You need to hurry up and retire so you can smoke weed and not be such an insufferable twat.

The definition of vindication is "the action of clearing someone of blame or suspicion". If Mann's work has not been vindicated (which it has not been), that means neither has his theory.

The only thing that has been proven is that there is a slight rise in overall temps. What that means or what is causing that is still up for debate. And contrary to popular belief (and the media) it is not settled. We have barely begun to scratch the surface on what we know vs. what we do not know.

What we do know is that one side has been caught manipulating the data (Mann, UN, Politicians, etc. (see Wikileaks and Climate Gate)) for their own personal befits/beliefs/profits. The other side, while not to the same extent, has also done similar obfuscations (Oil companies) in their studies.

Both sides are using "science" to stir up support for their "personal beliefs" and "profits". The only thing this does is drag real scientists that are curious about the very complex interplay between multiple systems that make up our weather.

For a vast majority on both sides, it has turned into a "religion" and they are happy to wage an inquisition on those that question their dearly held tenets.

Have no fear, there are others that can start filling in CID's massive shoes if he starts slacking.....

[Gil Dobie]

The next time you wonder how flat earthers and MAGAts can believe the stuff they do, just look back at that reply right there ^^^^

Mann's work has not been vindicated and will not be vindicated until his predictions come true, and they have not.

Hockey stick = pizza parlor child rape

Vindication is not the same as settled science.

You need to hurry up and retire so you can smoke weed and not be such an insufferable twat.

Is there such a thing as settled science in a universe that is in a state of entropy? Maybe it's a snapshot of a topic in the universe at a particular moment in time, but IMO, science is continuously changing. When new knowledge is gained on a topic, the perception of that topic is changed. Covid is a good example of people using snapshots of science to support their narrative, even though the scientific knowledge has changed since that snapshot.

[kalm]

Vindication is not the same as settled science.

You need to hurry up and retire so you can smoke weed and not be such an insufferable twat.

Is there such a thing as settled science in a universe that is in a state of entropy? Maybe it's a snapshot of a topic in the universe at a particular moment in time, but IMO, science is continuously changing. When new knowledge is gained on a topic, the perception of that topic is changed. Covid is a good example of people using snapshots of science to support their narrative, even though the scientific knowledge has changed since that snapshot.

This ^^^ is almost exactly my point.

[kalm]

Vindication is not the same as settled science.

You need to hurry up and retire so you can smoke weed and not be such an insufferable twat.

The definition of vindication is "the action of clearing someone of blame or suspicion". If Mann's work has not been vindicated (which it has not been), that means neither has his theory.

The only thing that has been proven is that there is a slight rise in overall temps. What that means or what is causing that is still up for debate. And contrary to popular belief (and the media) it is not settled. We have barely begun to scratch the surface on what we know vs. what we do not know.

What we do know is that one side has been caught manipulating the data (Mann, UN, Politicians, etc. (see Wikileaks and Climate Gate)) for their own personal befits/beliefs/profits. The other side, while not to the same extent, has also done similar obfuscations (Oil companies) in their studies.

Both sides are using "science" to stir up support for their "personal beliefs" and "profits". The only thing this does is drag real scientists that are curious about the very complex interplay between multiple systems that make up our weather.

For a vast majority on both sides, it has turned into a "religion" and they are happy to wage an inquisition on those that question their dearly held tenets.

Have no fear, there are others that can start filling in CID's massive shoes if he starts slacking.....

I was acknowledging that Mann’s work was not settled. But his continued work and his role in climate gate was.

Hence why he filed suit.

We’ve debated this in other threads before. While I too remain skeptical just like you, I’m also going to rely upon what the experts are studying rather than CATO institute or tweets.

I don’t need to dive any deeper into a debate I’ve already won.

(And again...that doesn’t mean Mann is correct or that anything is settled. That’s another topic).

[Winterborn]

The definition of vindication is "the action of clearing someone of blame or suspicion". If Mann's work has not been vindicated (which it has not been), that means neither has his theory.

The only thing that has been proven is that there is a slight rise in overall temps. What that means or what is causing that is still up for debate. And contrary to popular belief (and the media) it is not settled. We have barely begun to scratch the surface on what we know vs. what we do not know.

What we do know is that one side has been caught manipulating the data (Mann, UN, Politicians, etc. (see Wikileaks and Climate Gate)) for their own personal befits/beliefs/profits. The other side, while not to the same extent, has also done similar obfuscations (Oil companies) in their studies.

Both sides are using "science" to stir up support for their "personal beliefs" and "profits". The only thing this does is drag real scientists that are curious about the very complex interplay between multiple systems that make up our weather.

For a vast majority on both sides, it has turned into a "religion" and they are happy to wage an inquisition on those that question their dearly held tenets.

Have no fear, there are others that can start filling in CID's massive shoes if he starts slacking.....

I was acknowledging that Mann’s work was not settled. But his continued work and his role in climate gate was.

Hence why he filed suit.

We’ve debated this in other threads before. While I too remain skeptical just like you, I’m also going to rely upon what the experts are studying rather than CATO institute or tweets.

I don’t need to dive any deeper into a debate I’ve already won.

(And again...that doesn’t mean Mann is correct or that anything is settled. That’s another topic).

You are a trusting fellow. Mann got caught falsifying his results. Forgive me if I don't take his following work as Gospel afterwards.

I do not follow CATO (had to look who they even were) nor do I care/believe tweets. I follow the raw data. My background and education have given me a technical background to follow the results that come out of the published papers. While I do not have their exact knowledge I do have enough to follow their results and the statistical analysis they are doing. And if I have a question on why a particular analysis is done, I have a PHD math friend that I can bounce ideas off of.

You and Mann are similar. You both claim it is settled science, when it is anything but. Where it differs is that he clearly understands higher levels of math/statistics and you do not. Partially explains why you back up JSO so often. You have math envy.

I basically said the exact same thing as Gill in a different way. If you want to claim victory, go right ahead, I am not fixing on changing anybodies opinion. In the end neither of our "opinions" means a hill of beans.

[kalm]

I was acknowledging that Mann’s work was not settled. But his continued work and his role in climate gate was.

Hence why he filed suit.

We’ve debated this in other threads before. While I too remain skeptical just like you, I’m also going to rely upon what the experts are studying rather than CATO institute or tweets.

I don’t need to dive any deeper into a debate I’ve already won.

(And again...that doesn’t mean Mann is correct or that anything is settled. That’s another topic).

You are a trusting fellow. Mann got caught falsifying his results. Forgive me if I don't take his following work as Gospel afterwards.

I do not follow CATO (had to look who they even were) nor do I care/believe tweets. I follow the raw data. My background and education have given me a technical background to follow the results that come out of the published papers. While I do not have their exact knowledge I do have enough to follow their results and the statistical analysis they are doing. And if I have a question on why a particular analysis is done, I have a PHD math friend that I can bounce ideas off of.

You and Mann are similar. You both claim it is settled science, when it is anything but. Where it differs is that he clearly understands higher levels of math/statistics and you do not. Partially explains why you back up JSO so often. You have math envy.

I basically said the exact same thing as Gill in a different way. If you want to claim victory, go right ahead, I am not fixing on changing anybodies opinion. In the end neither of our "opinions" means a hill of beans.

Dude...I’m not claiming settled science. And I have a friend who is the CEO of a data analytics and cyber-security company to bounce numbers off of.

Climategate was a politically driven conspiracy. Nothing more. Feel free to show legitimate findings that say otherwise.

I’ll wait and be happy to admit I’m wrong.

[Winterborn]

You are a trusting fellow. Mann got caught falsifying his results. Forgive me if I don't take his following work as Gospel afterwards.

I do not follow CATO (had to look who they even were) nor do I care/believe tweets. I follow the raw data. My background and education have given me a technical background to follow the results that come out of the published papers. While I do not have their exact knowledge I do have enough to follow their results and the statistical analysis they are doing. And if I have a question on why a particular analysis is done, I have a PHD math friend that I can bounce ideas off of.

You and Mann are similar. You both claim it is settled science, when it is anything but. Where it differs is that he clearly understands higher levels of math/statistics and you do not. Partially explains why you back up JSO so often. You have math envy.

I basically said the exact same thing as Gill in a different way. If you want to claim victory, go right ahead, I am not fixing on changing anybodies opinion. In the end neither of our "opinions" means a hill of beans.

Dude...I’m not claiming settled science. And I have a friend who is the CEO of a data analytics and cyber-security company to bounce numbers off of.

Climategate was a politically driven conspiracy. Nothing more. Feel free to show legitimate findings that say otherwise.

I’ll wait and be happy to admit I’m wrong.

My bad, I took your post as trolling. I agree on the science side.

As for Climategate, I would agree that it was politically driven and for the most part BS (especially with respect to the anti-warming folks). But the part I was poorly referencing above, is the fact that for the most part the scientist were more concerned about how they looked, then the data.

The interesting thing about science (from a historical perspective) is that it does not smoothly advance from one level to the next. There are "jumps" it makes. Where challenging the consensus is ridiculed but then after enough time it is accepted as being self-evident and one is an idiot if you do not follow the new path. Examples that come to mind is that the Earth is not the center of the Universe, Earth is round, there is more than one galaxy, bad air, leeching the blood, etc. If you ever get a chance to have a frank talk with people that are published in the some of the major science journals, it might be eye opening (it was for me) how many constraints they are under to publish something that only slightly challenges or repeats the current consensus.

We all have ego's and nobody is immune from their influence. To put science up on a pedestal and declare "this "x" is the absolute truth" the way it has been done in the past and recently, is not what science is. Too often we want a black and white answer when it really comes down to it, that the answer is a bit grey and we are selfish people who like power and prestige. This isn't directed at you, but more towards my frustration at dumb mfker's in the media and political sphere (plus the stupids that lap their drivel up), and this morning was when those frustrations boiled over a bit.

I should really not be posting during work as sometimes those frustrations (drama queen engineers and liberal arts majors) translate into my posts on here.

[SeattleGriz]

I love how you tout science and say Mann was vindicated in the same breath.

The argument over AGW isn’t in the whether- it is in the “what”. Claiming that there is some legion of people in the scientific community out there denying AGW on its face is a straw man and you know it.

AGW is real, and we have no clue how it will manifest itself. <<<that right there is science. Pure as the wind driven snow. Anything else is suppositional bullshit and Mann is a fraud.

Im not sure why you rise to the defense of the people you do. Maybe you’re just a closet populist and you think nobody is on to you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SG trolled with AGW denial and hooked one.

Mann’s (science) was vindicated. The SCOTUS ruling focused on speech and defamation.

I would say there’s no need to defend science yet here you are.

Oh. It wasn't trolling and Mann is a piece of shit.

[SeattleGriz]

Vindication is not the same as settled science.

You need to hurry up and retire so you can smoke weed and not be such an insufferable twat.

Is there such a thing as settled science in a universe that is in a state of entropy? Maybe it's a snapshot of a topic in the universe at a particular moment in time, but IMO, science is continuously changing. When new knowledge is gained on a topic, the perception of that topic is changed. Covid is a good example of people using snapshots of science to support their narrative, even though the scientific knowledge has changed since that snapshot.

I'm all for changing ideas and theories for ones that are better, but what we see, is one side trying to shut the other down for differing opinions. That's not science. If your theory is so awesome, defend it and prove it.

[Gil Dobie]

Is there such a thing as settled science in a universe that is in a state of entropy? Maybe it's a snapshot of a topic in the universe at a particular moment in time, but IMO, science is continuously changing. When new knowledge is gained on a topic, the perception of that topic is changed. Covid is a good example of people using snapshots of science to support their narrative, even though the scientific knowledge has changed since that snapshot.

I'm all for changing ideas and theories for ones that are better, but what we see, is one side trying to shut the other down for differing opinions. That's not science. If your theory is so awesome, defend it and prove it.

That's the snapshot moment of the science they are using to push their narrative.

[89Hen]

Thought this was an interesting interview last night. I'm sure it's a bit of a case of both sides cherry picking.

[andy7171]

Hey look, its a three way circle jerk for the most intelligent congenial conversationalists up in this FCS fan message board!

[kalm]

Hey look, its a three way circle jerk for the most intelligent congenial conversationalists up in this FCS fan message board!

I like you, Andy!

[andy7171]

Hey look, its a three way circle jerk for the most intelligent congenial conversationalists up in this FCS fan message board!

I like you, Andy!

"You make me wanna wretch!"

[Winterborn]

Thought this was an interesting interview last night. I'm sure it's a bit of a case of both sides cherry picking.

Pretty much.

Climate is changing is a given.

It comes down to where one believes the cause is coming from.

[Ibanez]

Thought this was an interesting interview last night. I'm sure it's a bit of a case of both sides cherry picking.

Pretty much.

Climate is changing is a given.

It comes down to where one believes the cause is coming from.

***TANGENT ALERT***

I think it's a combination of nature and industry. Man has contributed to the problem however i'm not sure you can accurately quantify how much. Industrialization has already contributed to the contamination of drinking water and the air. Industry accidents, like an oil spill or sewage spill, damages the food population of fish, oysters, any wildlife depending on that lake or section of the Gulf, etc... Humans have had an impact and anyone saying otherwise isn't thinking rationally. Aside from seeing the effects of oil spills, deforestation, air and water pollution from factories, sewage, etc... I don't believe it's easy to accurately qualify and quantify the true effect on our climate vs the Earths natural cycle and how that might relate to rising oceans, warmer winters, stronger storms and so on.

Regardless, I don't see the harm or problem in trying to be good stewards of the Earth.

[kalm]

Pretty much.

Climate is changing is a given.

It comes down to where one believes the cause is coming from.

***TANGENT ALERT***

I think it's a combination of nature and industry. Man has contributed to the problem however i'm not sure you can accurately quantify how much. Industrialization has already contributed to the contamination of drinking water and the air. Industry accidents, like an oil spill or sewage spill, damages the food population of fish, oysters, any wildlife depending on that lake or section of the Gulf, etc... Humans have had an impact and anyone saying otherwise isn't thinking rationally. Aside from seeing the effects of oil spills, deforestation, air and water pollution from factories, sewage, etc... I don't believe it's easy to accurately qualify and quantify the true effect on our climate vs the Earths natural cycle and how that might relate to rising oceans, warmer winters, stronger storms and so on.

Regardless, I don't see the harm or problem in trying to be good stewards of the Earth.

It’s our moral obligation.

[89Hen]

I think it's a combination of nature and industry. Man has contributed to the problem however i'm not sure you can accurately quantify how much. Industrialization has already contributed to the contamination of drinking water and the air. Industry accidents, like an oil spill or sewage spill, damages the food population of fish, oysters, any wildlife depending on that lake or section of the Gulf, etc... Humans have had an impact and anyone saying otherwise isn't thinking rationally. Aside from seeing the effects of oil spills, deforestation, air and water pollution from factories, sewage, etc... I don't believe it's easy to accurately qualify and quantify the true effect on our climate vs the Earths natural cycle and how that might relate to rising oceans, warmer winters, stronger storms and so on.

Regardless, I don't see the harm or problem in trying to be good stewards of the Earth.

Yup. I hate pollution of all kinds, especially needless waste (plastics, styrofoam, etc).

[Gil Dobie]

[Gil Dobie]

[GannonFan]

I think it's a combination of nature and industry. Man has contributed to the problem however i'm not sure you can accurately quantify how much. Industrialization has already contributed to the contamination of drinking water and the air. Industry accidents, like an oil spill or sewage spill, damages the food population of fish, oysters, any wildlife depending on that lake or section of the Gulf, etc... Humans have had an impact and anyone saying otherwise isn't thinking rationally. Aside from seeing the effects of oil spills, deforestation, air and water pollution from factories, sewage, etc... I don't believe it's easy to accurately qualify and quantify the true effect on our climate vs the Earths natural cycle and how that might relate to rising oceans, warmer winters, stronger storms and so on.

Regardless, I don't see the harm or problem in trying to be good stewards of the Earth.

Yup. I hate pollution of all kinds, especially needless waste (plastics, styrofoam, etc).

Yup, just do your part, both at home and the office/plant/place of work, to be as environmentally friendly/good steward you can be. We're now using a chemical at work that counts for zero emissions to the environment - costs a ton to make but it's super environmentally friendly. Good stuff.

[Gil Dobie]

If Trump was prez, we would still be hearing about how poor he is handling Ida relief, with continuous footage of the damage, and not embracing climate change.

[AZGrizFan]

If Trump was prez, we would still be hearing about how poor he is handling Ida relief, with continuous footage of the damage, and not embracing climate change.

Yep. But with Biden as prez, the press has already forgotten about Ida, and NOBODY has said a word about the earthquake in Haiti.