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"North Dakota today has a level playing field and fairness in girls' sports," Burgum said. "We have every confidence that they will continue to ensure a level playing field for the 27,000 students who participate in North Dakota high school sports."

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:06 pm I thought about posting this in Other Sports but knew it would be political and really belonged here.

North Dakota Governor Vetoes Bill That Would Ban Trans Students From Playing Sports

"North Dakota today has a level playing field and fairness in girls' sports," Burgum said. "We have every confidence that they will continue to ensure a level playing field for the 27,000 students who participate in North Dakota high school sports."

My views on this are evolving. I do think it's important to respect the impact on the mental health of the potential trans athletes but I also think it's important to consider the potential impact on the athletes they will be competing against. This isn't happening in a vacuum and lots of people could be impacted and that impact should be considered.

Does a biological male competing in female sports have an advantage similar to taking steroids or HGH? Are there biological females that have an advantage simply from naturally having higher levels of testosterone than other females? Can you quantify, set a limit and test for a chemical advantage regardless of gender identity? I don't know. Are there aspects of this debate that I'm not considering? Almost certainly.

FYI - I viewed the article in incognito.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:10 pm
Gabrielle Ludwig of mission college

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:10 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:06 pm I thought about posting this in Other Sports but knew it would be political and really belonged here.

North Dakota Governor Vetoes Bill That Would Ban Trans Students From Playing Sports

My views on this are evolving. I do think it's important to respect the impact on the mental health of the potential trans athletes but I also think it's important to consider the potential impact on the athletes they will be competing against. This isn't happening in a vacuum and lots of people could be impacted and that impact should be considered.

Does a biological male competing in female sports have an advantage similar to taking steroids or HGH? Are there biological females that have an advantage simply from naturally having higher levels of testosterone than other females? Can you quantify, set a limit and test for a chemical advantage regardless of gender identity? I don't know. Are there aspects of this debate that I'm not considering? Almost certainly.

FYI - I viewed the article in incognito.

If you are 7' 2", you can have a physical advantage in basketball.

I can see the day, maybe not in my lifetime, where there are required trans-gender sports.

Gabrielle Ludwig of mission college

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:41 pm IMO younger people are more open-minded and less likely to care if Gabrielle is on their team or the other team.

89Hen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:46 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:41 pm IMO younger people are more open-minded and less likely to care if Gabrielle is on their team or the other team.

Younger people are also stoopid.

bobbythekidd wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:40 pm

89Hen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:46 pm
Younger people are also stoopid.

Younger people can see the future, since they are going to be the ones establishing it.

bobbythekidd wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:40 pm

89Hen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:46 pm

Younger people are also stoopid.

Younger people can see the future, since they are going to be the ones establishing it.

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:48 pm

bobbythekidd wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:40 pm

Younger people can see the future, since they are going to be the ones establishing it.

I’m so ready to turn it all over to the chicks and younger folks and just go fishing and golfing...a lot.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:52 pm Biological males should play on male sports teams.
Biological females should play on female sports teams.
The end.

bobbythekidd wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:40 pm

89Hen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:46 pm

Younger people are also stoopid.

Younger people can see the future, since they are going to be the ones establishing it.

89Hen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:14 am

bobbythekidd wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:40 pm

Younger people can see the future, since they are going to be the ones establishing it.

They also like to ignore the past.

kalm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:05 am

89Hen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:14 am

They also like to ignore the past.

So do many adults.

89Hen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:25 am

kalm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:05 am

So do many adults.

Very true.

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:44 am My main issue with this is that discussion around the issue tends to morph generalities into global absolutes, especially for those against the idea, and then when exceptions come up, they wine about "cherry picking." Of course, an average TRAINED guy is likely to dominate an average woman of equal training, assuming equal weight class, without rule-based handicaps, particularly in anything even approaching a "combat sport". (This argument, of course, ignores equestrian sports, where men and women have competed on a somewhat even playing field for decades, but the nay-sayers also want to ignore THAT.) What the nay-sayers tend to forget is training and innate ability are key factors. The whole argument is that ANY man will beat ANY woman one-on-one in ANY sport, and will beat them up in the process. My response: stick Sheldon Cooper (or someone like him) in the Octagon with "Rowdy" Ronda Rousey and see where that gets you; she's been trained, he hasn't, and she's in a higher weight class to boot. (That's where the cherry picking whine comes in.) Position variation may also come into play; for football and basketball in particular, if a woman is playing wide receiver, for example, bringing up the average defensive lineman as a disincentive to allowing her to play is, for me, a non-sequitur because she's not directly competing against him; she's competing directly against a DB, who's more likely to have her body type. The same is true in hoops, where a woman playing shooting guard shouldn't be told to "go home" simply because the other team has Klanq Fu playing center. She's not competing directly against him; she's competing against the other team's guards, who are generally much smaller. And if she DOES decide to "mix it up" with the bigger guys? So what? If she has the wherwithal of Dr. Jen Welter, who played for a men's indoor football team the last season of her playing career (the GM was Tim Brown of Notre Dame and Oakland Raiders fame) and as a career-long LBer was playing out of position at running back with no decent O'Line and got smeared in the backfield by the opposing LBer: "Is THAT all you got?", it's not going to be a problem.

Age is also a factor. Several years ago, a trans dude tried to compete in juco hoops against women here in Cali; the ladies largely wiped the court with him, both because he was something like 48, while they were still in their early-to-mid 20s. He also had zero talent. There was also that dummy in Brazil a few years back who was lazy in casing women at random to mug for their cell phones. One had him in a rear naked choke so fast it made his head spin; turns out that at the time, she was 10-2 MMA, 1-1 UFC.

Ultimately, though, I suppose I'm on the fence here. I don't want to see men using women's sports as a "cheap" way to athletic stardom, yet I have no problem with women making the choice to compete against men. I also have no problem with women playing what have traditionally been deemed "men's only" sports (like football) against other women. For me, the results would depend on merits; if a woman can do the job against other women (in a women's only league) or against men (in a men's or mixed league), then I have no problem letting them it. That may sound like talking out both sides of my mouth at once, but it's the only way I can see to recognize the talent that some women have rather than squashing it.

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:53 am 88: That's the problem with much of the anti-trans crowd. They ASSUME that's what the trans people are doing when they "invade" female sports.