The MSM

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AZGrizFan
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Re: The MSM

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:06 am
UNI88 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:30 am

From you ... :D

The point isn't that there is zero reporting it's that journalistic integrity has declined severely. Why are you disagreeing with Taibbi and Greenwald?
I’m not. I take them with a grain of salt like the rest. Many people have increased their consumption and flaws are bound to be noticed. It varies depending on the source...social media, establishment, local, print, TV.

There’s still plenty of quality journalism out there. It’s often lost in the shuffle.
Please, list them. :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:19 am
kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:06 am

I’m not. I take them with a grain of salt like the rest. Many people have increased their consumption and flaws are bound to be noticed. It varies depending on the source...social media, establishment, local, print, TV.

There’s still plenty of quality journalism out there. It’s often lost in the shuffle.
Please, list them. :coffee: :coffee:
Sigh...

Pick most old guard outlets and their 1000’s of writers, editors, and fact checkers and you’ll find many.

Besides, it’s not as if bias hasn’t been around for centuries. Part of it is up to the consumer to actually be able to read between the lines past a tweet or sensationalist headline.

Like critical thinking, compromise, non adversarial news orientation, it appears to be a disappearing craft.
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Re: The MSM

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:40 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:19 am

Please, list them. :coffee: :coffee:
Sigh...

Pick most old guard outlets and their 1000’s of writers, editors, and fact checkers and you’ll find many.

Besides, it’s not as if bias hasn’t been around for centuries. Part of it is up to the consumer to actually be able to read between the lines past a tweet or sensationalist headline.

Like critical thinking, compromise, non adversarial news orientation, it appears to be a disappearing craft.
Really? You haven't been paying attention if you think there's "many". The entire concept of "fact checking" has become a joke. Centrist, unbiased reporters are being run off from old guard outlets by the hundreds.

I get that yellow journalism isn't a "new" thing. But to see essentially the entire industry gleefully line up behind political parties en masse and become literal propaganda arms of those parties is frightening. We criticized Russian/communist "media" for DECADES for doing that exact thing, and today in America it's very difficult to find ANY reporter who's not got a political agenda, and who proudly wear that agenda on their sleeve and in their "reporting".
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Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:16 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:40 am

Sigh...

Pick most old guard outlets and their 1000’s of writers, editors, and fact checkers and you’ll find many.

Besides, it’s not as if bias hasn’t been around for centuries. Part of it is up to the consumer to actually be able to read between the lines past a tweet or sensationalist headline.

Like critical thinking, compromise, non adversarial news orientation, it appears to be a disappearing craft.
Really? You haven't been paying attention if you think there's "many". The entire concept of "fact checking" has become a joke. Centrist, unbiased reporters are being run off from old guard outlets by the hundreds.

I get that yellow journalism isn't a "new" thing. But to see essentially the entire industry gleefully line up behind political parties en masse and become literal propaganda arms of those parties is frightening. We criticized Russian/communist "media" for DECADES for doing that exact thing, and today in America it's very difficult to find ANY reporter who's not got a political agenda, and who proudly wear that agenda on their sleeve and in their "reporting".
It would be like me judging CU CEO’s based on Wall Street executives.

You’re also not mentioning the role corporatism plays in media.

There are 1000’s of quality news professionals. But news consumption is hard. I get that.
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Re: The MSM

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:55 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:16 pm

Really? You haven't been paying attention if you think there's "many". The entire concept of "fact checking" has become a joke. Centrist, unbiased reporters are being run off from old guard outlets by the hundreds.

I get that yellow journalism isn't a "new" thing. But to see essentially the entire industry gleefully line up behind political parties en masse and become literal propaganda arms of those parties is frightening. We criticized Russian/communist "media" for DECADES for doing that exact thing, and today in America it's very difficult to find ANY reporter who's not got a political agenda, and who proudly wear that agenda on their sleeve and in their "reporting".
It would be like me judging CU CEO’s based on Wall Street executives.

You’re also not mentioning the role corporatism plays in media.

There are 1000’s of quality news professionals. But news consumption is hard. I get that.
You keep saying that, but the reporting says something different....too nuanced?
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Re: The MSM

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:55 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:16 pm

Really? You haven't been paying attention if you think there's "many". The entire concept of "fact checking" has become a joke. Centrist, unbiased reporters are being run off from old guard outlets by the hundreds.

I get that yellow journalism isn't a "new" thing. But to see essentially the entire industry gleefully line up behind political parties en masse and become literal propaganda arms of those parties is frightening. We criticized Russian/communist "media" for DECADES for doing that exact thing, and today in America it's very difficult to find ANY reporter who's not got a political agenda, and who proudly wear that agenda on their sleeve and in their "reporting".
It would be like me judging CU CEO’s based on Wall Street executives.

You’re also not mentioning the role corporatism plays in media.

There are 1000’s of quality news professionals. But news consumption is hard. I get that.
News professionals can cover a big swath of the industry. You could call a news anchor that reads off of a script or a camera guy a news professional but they are not the same as a reporter or journalist.

The only good ones that I have come across are independent or have their name/brand so well establish that they are allowed to skirt some of the "rules" newer reporters are to follow. Sure there are "thousands" at the local level that are covering local accidents, Mrs. Johnson's cat got stuck in a tree type of stories, but at the national level, with an audience larger than a couple of counties they are rare.
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Re: The MSM

Post by Winterborn »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:07 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:55 pm

It would be like me judging CU CEO’s based on Wall Street executives.

You’re also not mentioning the role corporatism plays in media.

There are 1000’s of quality news professionals. But news consumption is hard. I get that.
You keep saying that, but the reporting says something different....too nuanced?
If you count the local County Examiner, Klam is right but the amount of people those papers influence can be measured in the thousands, when the national influence is in the millions.


Outside of the reach, there is an ocean of difference between the two.
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Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:24 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:55 pm

It would be like me judging CU CEO’s based on Wall Street executives.

You’re also not mentioning the role corporatism plays in media.

There are 1000’s of quality news professionals. But news consumption is hard. I get that.
News professionals can cover a big swath of the industry. You could call a news anchor that reads off of a script or a camera guy a news professional but they are not the same as a reporter or journalist.

The only good ones that I have come across are independent or have their name/brand so well establish that they are allowed to skirt some of the "rules" newer reporters are to follow. Sure there are "thousands" at the local level that are covering local accidents, Mrs. Johnson's cat got stuck in a tree type of stories, but at the national level, with an audience larger than a couple of counties they are rare.
The WSJ alone employs 2000 journalists. NYT has 1600. That’s just two major daily publications among 100’s in the US. Now throw in digital, weekly, monthly, ...

I’m guessing there are more than “virtually none” as Z stated.

:coffee:
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Re: The MSM

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote:
Winterborn wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:24 pm News professionals can cover a big swath of the industry. You could call a news anchor that reads off of a script or a camera guy a news professional but they are not the same as a reporter or journalist.

The only good ones that I have come across are independent or have their name/brand so well establish that they are allowed to skirt some of the "rules" newer reporters are to follow. Sure there are "thousands" at the local level that are covering local accidents, Mrs. Johnson's cat got stuck in a tree type of stories, but at the national level, with an audience larger than a couple of counties they are rare.
The WSJ alone employs 2000 journalists. NYT has 1600. That’s just two major daily publications among 100’s in the US. Now throw in digital, weekly, monthly, ...

I’m guessing there are more than “virtually none” as Z stated.

:coffee:
How many of those thousands get their name on an article?
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Re: The MSM

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:35 am
kalm wrote:
The WSJ alone employs 2000 journalists. NYT has 1600. That’s just two major daily publications among 100’s in the US. Now throw in digital, weekly, monthly, ...

I’m guessing there are more than “virtually none” as Z stated.

:coffee:
How many of those thousands get their name on an article?
I don’t know. How many have interns, fact checkers, editors, researchers etc. helping?
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Re: The MSM

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:35 am
kalm wrote:
The WSJ alone employs 2000 journalists. NYT has 1600. That’s just two major daily publications among 100’s in the US. Now throw in digital, weekly, monthly, ...

I’m guessing there are more than “virtually none” as Z stated.

:coffee:
How many of those thousands get their name on an article?
There are still good journalists out there. Focusing on AZ's hyperbole is a distraction from the question of whether quality journalism is in decline.
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Re: The MSM

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:38 am
Winterborn wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:35 am How many of those thousands get their name on an article?
I don’t know. How many have interns, fact checkers, editors, researchers etc. helping?
And they're ALL left leaning, some significantly left leaning and are propaganda arms of the Dem/socialist party.
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