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What would a healthy capitalist response to COVID have looked like?

In World War II, one Chrysler factory in Michigan punched out more tanks than the entire Third Reich. We have not had a full-throated capitalist response because the reality is that the sense of urgency hasn’t been there. If Amazon stock had gone down 70 percent, and not up 70 percent, in the past 12 months? When a van with a smile on it delivers my espresso pods tomorrow morning, someone in a white lab coat would be jumping out and jabbing me. The full-throated capitalist response is not happening here in the United States because the people who control the government have just not endured that much pain. As a matter of fact, it’s more like, “Stop, stop, it hurts so good.”

The dirty secret of the pandemic is that during one of the worst crises in history — as measured by death and velocity of death — you have the people who essentially control the government living their best lives. They die at a lower rate, they get sick at a lower rate, and COVID-19 for the shareholder class has meant more time on Netflix and more time with family — and their wealth has exploded.

I’m not saying that rich people aren’t empathetic. I’m not saying that rich people want people to die. But if this had impacted them — if this had cut their wealth in half instead of doubled their wealth — we would have made the responses in Taiwan and in Singapore and in South Korea look like amateur hour. If Walmart’s stock had been cut in half, instead of going up 50 percent, and if someone walked into one of its stores and refused to wear a mask, Walmart would have Tasered them and arrested them, instead of trying to thread this needle between liberty and public health.


We have decided, in this pandemic, that half a million people dying is bad but the NASDAQ declining would be tragic because it would reduce the wealth of old people. And again, we don’t even want to acknowledge that if the NASDAQ were to get cut in half, that’s bad for the existing rich, but it presents opportunities for the not yet rich.

Imagine a great little restaurant that goes out of business. You think, Well, that’s a shame. Yeah. It’s a shame for the current 50-year-old owners. But it also means that the real estate and the supplies — dishes, the stove — go down in cost, and it gives a 28-year-old, a recent graduate of a Brooklyn culinary academy, her shot at owning a restaurant. Closures mean layoffs, of course. But new ventures quickly take up the slack. And in an empathetic — or even sane — system, direct payments to anyone affected could carry them through the transition.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:39 pm

Imagine a great little restaurant that goes out of business. You think, Well, that’s a shame. Yeah. It’s a shame for the current 50-year-old owners. But it also means that the real estate and the supplies — dishes, the stove — go down in cost, and it gives a 28-year-old, a recent graduate of a Brooklyn culinary academy, her shot at owning a restaurant. Closures mean layoffs, of course. But new ventures quickly take up the slack. And in an empathetic — or even sane — system, direct payments to anyone affected could carry them through the transition.

Yeah, fuck that 50-year old. Let’s give the poor 28 year old a shot at their expense. What kind of fucked up, zero-sum-game logic is THAT?

It’s more drivel from the far left. The rich are evil. The young are sooooo poor and just not doing well compared to their parents, nobody cares as long as their stocks go up, blah blah blah.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:04 am The author was so close with this line, "The dirty secret of the pandemic is that during one of the worst crises in history — as measured by death and velocity of death — you have the people who essentially control the government living their best lives" but didn't expand on it.

I believe that the trillions in bailouts from both the Trump and Biden administrations will ultimately be judged in history as a crime against the middle class in America and future generations. Something like a third of that money has gone to people. The rest has gone to corporations and governments.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:47 am

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:04 am The author was so close with this line, "The dirty secret of the pandemic is that during one of the worst crises in history — as measured by death and velocity of death — you have the people who essentially control the government living their best lives" but didn't expand on it.

Overall I like the piece. It made some great points.

I believe that the trillions in bailouts from both the Trump and Biden administrations will ultimately be judged in history as a crime against the middle class in America and future generations. Something like a third of that money has gone to people. The rest has gone to corporations and governments.

This crime was perpetrated by members of both parties. The populist veneer that Pelosi and others like to showcase is just that, a veneer. They don't give a sh!t about the common person and try to give them just enough to keep them fat, dumb, and marginally happy.

I can see where a capitalist could be concerned about restaurants going out of business. A restaurant failing because of a pandemic response that they feel was excessive would seem like the government drove the restaurant out of business, not the bad food, bad staff, bad luck or just the market. The flip side of the author's arguments is that some of those failed restaurant owners were younger and now their finances and self-confidence are sh!t. IMO, the government's pandemic response was bad luck for restaurant owners. It sucks, but true capitalism is cold and unfeeling. I think I told 89 in a brewing thread last spring/summer that he would probably have an opportunity to pick up some equipment at a fraction of the normal cost. If I ever seriously considered opening a restaurant, now is a time of opportunity. There is risk but real estate and equipment are available.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:47 am

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:04 am The author was so close with this line, "The dirty secret of the pandemic is that during one of the worst crises in history — as measured by death and velocity of death — you have the people who essentially control the government living their best lives" but didn't expand on it.

Overall I like the piece. It made some great points.

I believe that the trillions in bailouts from both the Trump and Biden administrations will ultimately be judged in history as a crime against the middle class in America and future generations. Something like a third of that money has gone to people. The rest has gone to corporations and governments.

This crime was perpetrated by members of both parties. The populist veneer that Pelosi and others like to showcase is just that, a veneer. They don't give a sh!t about the common person and try to give them just enough to keep them fat, dumb, and marginally happy.

I can see where a capitalist could be concerned about restaurants going out of business. A restaurant failing because of a pandemic response that they feel was excessive would seem like the government drove the restaurant out of business, not the bad food, bad staff, bad luck or just the market. The flip side of the author's arguments is that some of those failed restaurant owners were younger and now their finances and self-confidence are sh!t. IMO, the government's pandemic response was bad luck for restaurant owners. It sucks, but true capitalism is cold and unfeeling. I think I told 89 in a brewing thread last spring/summer that he would probably have an opportunity to pick up some equipment at a fraction of the normal cost. If I ever seriously considered opening a restaurant, now is a time of opportunity. There is risk but real estate and equipment are available.

houndawg wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:40 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:47 am



Overall I like the piece. It made some great points.



This crime was perpetrated by members of both parties. The populist veneer that Pelosi and others like to showcase is just that, a veneer. They don't give a sh!t about the common person and try to give them just enough to keep them fat, dumb, and marginally happy.

I can see where a capitalist could be concerned about restaurants going out of business. A restaurant failing because of a pandemic response that they feel was excessive would seem like the government drove the restaurant out of business, not the bad food, bad staff, bad luck or just the market. The flip side of the author's arguments is that some of those failed restaurant owners were younger and now their finances and self-confidence are sh!t. IMO, the government's pandemic response was bad luck for restaurant owners. It sucks, but true capitalism is cold and unfeeling. I think I told 89 in a brewing thread last spring/summer that he would probably have an opportunity to pick up some equipment at a fraction of the normal cost. If I ever seriously considered opening a restaurant, now is a time of opportunity. There is risk but real estate and equipment are available.

Restaurant equipment is always available at a fraction of the normal cost

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:40 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:47 am



Overall I like the piece. It made some great points.



This crime was perpetrated by members of both parties. The populist veneer that Pelosi and others like to showcase is just that, a veneer. They don't give a sh!t about the common person and try to give them just enough to keep them fat, dumb, and marginally happy.

I can see where a capitalist could be concerned about restaurants going out of business. A restaurant failing because of a pandemic response that they feel was excessive would seem like the government drove the restaurant out of business, not the bad food, bad staff, bad luck or just the market. The flip side of the author's arguments is that some of those failed restaurant owners were younger and now their finances and self-confidence are sh!t. IMO, the government's pandemic response was bad luck for restaurant owners. It sucks, but true capitalism is cold and unfeeling. I think I told 89 in a brewing thread last spring/summer that he would probably have an opportunity to pick up some equipment at a fraction of the normal cost. If I ever seriously considered opening a restaurant, now is a time of opportunity. There is risk but real estate and equipment are available.

The irony in your post is that the government’s shotgun, unscientific pandemic response caused the failed restaurants. It had ZERO to do with “cold and unfeeling capitalism”.

houndawg wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:44 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:40 pm

The irony in your post is that the government’s shotgun, unscientific pandemic response caused the failed restaurants. It had ZERO to do with “cold and unfeeling capitalism”.

As the deaths grew people would have stayed away voluntarily anyway, many still are even in places where the gubmint has lifted restrictions. The ones that aren't will spearhead the next wave.

houndawg wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:44 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:40 pm

The irony in your post is that the government’s shotgun, unscientific pandemic response caused the failed restaurants. It had ZERO to do with “cold and unfeeling capitalism”.

As the deaths grew people would have stayed away voluntarily anyway, many still are even in places where the gubmint has lifted restrictions. The ones that aren't will spearhead the next wave.

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:59 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:44 pm

As the deaths grew people would have stayed away voluntarily anyway, many still are even in places where the gubmint has lifted restrictions. The ones that aren't will spearhead the next wave.

Interesting how it’s blame government first and then the pandemic.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:33 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:59 pm



Interesting how it’s blame government first and then the pandemic.

It is not just one or the other but both that had a hand in the economic mess that is 2020+.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:52 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:33 am

It is not just one or the other but both that had a hand in the economic mess that is 2020+.

Of course. A big part lies in prioritizing who gets bailed out first and most.

houndawg wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:44 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:40 pm

The irony in your post is that the government’s shotgun, unscientific pandemic response caused the failed restaurants. It had ZERO to do with “cold and unfeeling capitalism”.

As the deaths grew people would have stayed away voluntarily anyway, many still are even in places where the gubmint has lifted restrictions. The ones that aren't will spearhead the next wave.

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:59 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:44 pm

As the deaths grew people would have stayed away voluntarily anyway, many still are even in places where the gubmint has lifted restrictions. The ones that aren't will spearhead the next wave.

Interesting how it’s blame government first and then the pandemic.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:32 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:44 pm

As the deaths grew people would have stayed away voluntarily anyway, many still are even in places where the gubmint has lifted restrictions. The ones that aren't will spearhead the next wave.

Have you been in an airport, bar or restaurant lately?

89Hen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:33 am What is the "shareholder class"? I know plenty of middle class who are happy about their 401K's. If Amazon and Walmart stock tanked as the writer opines, many more folks would be in dire straits today.

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:21 pm

89Hen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:33 am What is the "shareholder class"? I know plenty of middle class who are happy about their 401K's. If Amazon and Walmart stock tanked as the writer opines, many more folks would be in dire straits today.

I would define it as those who live off their investments as opposed to those who are hoping to do so in the future.

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:19 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:32 pm


Have you been in an airport, bar or restaurant lately?

Airport, last week, it was pretty quiet. Walked straight through security for the first time in about 40 years, plane was maybe a third full. it was great

89Hen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:25 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:21 pm

I would define it as those who live off their investments as opposed to those who are hoping to do so in the future.

So if I'm retired I'm now a member of the shareholder class?

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:19 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:32 pm



Have you been in an airport, bar or restaurant lately?

Airport, last week, it was pretty quiet. Walked straight through security for the first time in about 40 years, plane was maybe a third full. it was great

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:47 pm Since Crypto is mentioned.....