2024 Primary

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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

houndawg wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:42 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:34 am

You should, you're living it ... :poke:
I ride a lion into town, use a rattlesnake whip... 8-)
Take it easy Arlene.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

‘Don’t Be Fooled’: Why Leading GOPers Are Taking Aim At Both Trump and DeSantis
Demanding his party “stop whispering” about their unease with Trump, Christie excoriated Trump for falsely claiming the 2020 election was stolen, propelling a series of lackluster candidates last year and generally presiding over the decline of the GOP over the last half decade.

“If we continue down this road it’s a road that will lead us to another four years of Joe Biden,” Christie warned, repurposing Trump’s memorable vow that Republicans would become tired of winning on his watch to lament their “losing and losing and losing and losing.”

Yet what was even more revealing about Christie’s half-hour remarks, a recording of which I obtained, was the less direct but unmistakable and certainly not whispered criticism he leveled at Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:58 pm ‘Don’t Be Fooled’: Why Leading GOPers Are Taking Aim At Both Trump and DeSantis
Demanding his party “stop whispering” about their unease with Trump, Christie excoriated Trump for falsely claiming the 2020 election was stolen, propelling a series of lackluster candidates last year and generally presiding over the decline of the GOP over the last half decade.

“If we continue down this road it’s a road that will lead us to another four years of Joe Biden,” Christie warned, repurposing Trump’s memorable vow that Republicans would become tired of winning on his watch to lament their “losing and losing and losing and losing.”

Yet what was even more revealing about Christie’s half-hour remarks, a recording of which I obtained, was the less direct but unmistakable and certainly not whispered criticism he leveled at Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.
Not surprised. There are about 3, maybe 4 distinct camps in the Republican party right now with all about equal share.

Still don't think Haley is truly serious about the primary and is angling for a VP role more than anything.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:31 pm
Not surprised. There are about 3, maybe 4 distinct camps in the Republican party right now with all about equal share.

Still don't think Haley is truly serious about the primary and is angling for a VP role more than anything.
Who are camps?

MAGA
Well healed campaign donors
Never Trumpers

Any others?
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:57 pm
Winterborn wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:31 pm

Not surprised. There are about 3, maybe 4 distinct camps in the Republican party right now with all about equal share.

Still don't think Haley is truly serious about the primary and is angling for a VP role more than anything.
Who are camps?

MAGA
Well healed campaign donors
Never Trumpers

Any others?
Just came up with this after thinking about it for awhile. Here‘s how I see it- 5 groups:
-MAGA (Merica 1st, populist, isolationist)
-Liberterian
-Fundies
-Neo Con (globalist, interventionist)
-RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers.

There’s overlap between the 5 groups, and people who fall within more than 1 group (but most no more than 2, none more than 3).

Ranking in terms of fiscal conservatism right to left:
1. Libertarian
2. MAGA
3. Fundies, Neo Con & RINOS/Mods/Never Trumpers kind of all tied.

Ranking in terms of social conservatism right to left:
1. Fundies
2. MAGA
3. Neo Con
4. RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers
5. Libertarians

If you had to put them into 2 tents:
Tent 1: MAGA, majority of fundies & libertarians
Tent 2: Neo Cons, RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers, some fundies & libertarians.
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..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 pm
kalm wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:57 pm

Who are camps?

MAGA
Well healed campaign donors
Never Trumpers

Any others?
Just came up with this after thinking about it for awhile. Here‘s how I see it- 5 groups:
-MAGA (Merica 1st, populist, isolationist)
-Liberterian
-Fundies
-Neo Con (globalist, interventionist)
-RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers.

There’s overlap between the 5 groups, and people who fall within more than 1 group (but most no more than 2, none more than 3).

Ranking in terms of fiscal conservatism right to left:
1. Libertarian
2. MAGA
3. Fundies, Neo Con & RINOS/Mods/Never Trumpers kind of all tied.

Ranking in terms of social conservatism right to left:
1. Fundies
2. MAGA
3. Neo Con
4. RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers
5. Libertarians

If you had to put them into 2 tents:
Tent 1: MAGA, majority of fundies & libertarians
Tent 2: Neo Cons, RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers, some fundies & libertarians.
Solid break down, BDK.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:22 am
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 pm
Just came up with this after thinking about it for awhile. Here‘s how I see it- 5 groups:
-MAGA (Merica 1st, populist, isolationist)
-Liberterian
-Fundies
-Neo Con (globalist, interventionist)
-RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers.

There’s overlap between the 5 groups, and people who fall within more than 1 group (but most no more than 2, none more than 3).

Ranking in terms of fiscal conservatism right to left:
1. Libertarian
2. MAGA
3. Fundies, Neo Con & RINOS/Mods/Never Trumpers kind of all tied.

Ranking in terms of social conservatism right to left:
1. Fundies
2. MAGA
3. Neo Con
4. RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers
5. Libertarians

If you had to put them into 2 tents:
Tent 1: MAGA, majority of fundies & libertarians
Tent 2: Neo Cons, RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers, some fundies & libertarians.
Solid break down, BDK.
Thanks, Kalm. Over the last 3 days on here I have an agreement with 88, an agreement with Houndie, and now a kudos from you. Either hell is freezing over, or I need to check my conk card to see if its still intact.. :D
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by Winterborn »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 pm
kalm wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:57 pm

Who are camps?

MAGA
Well healed campaign donors
Never Trumpers

Any others?
Just came up with this after thinking about it for awhile. Here‘s how I see it- 5 groups:
-MAGA (Merica 1st, populist, isolationist)
-Liberterian
-Fundies
-Neo Con (globalist, interventionist)
-RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers.

There’s overlap between the 5 groups, and people who fall within more than 1 group (but most no more than 2, none more than 3).

Ranking in terms of fiscal conservatism right to left:
1. Libertarian
2. MAGA
3. Fundies, Neo Con & RINOS/Mods/Never Trumpers kind of all tied.

Ranking in terms of social conservatism right to left:
1. Fundies
2. MAGA
3. Neo Con
4. RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers
5. Libertarians

If you had to put them into 2 tents:
Tent 1: MAGA, majority of fundies & libertarians
Tent 2: Neo Cons, RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers, some fundies & libertarians.
Very close to my list. :thumb:
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:14 am
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 pm
Just came up with this after thinking about it for awhile. Here‘s how I see it- 5 groups:
-MAGA (Merica 1st, populist, isolationist)
-Liberterian
-Fundies
-Neo Con (globalist, interventionist)
-RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers.

There’s overlap between the 5 groups, and people who fall within more than 1 group (but most no more than 2, none more than 3).

Ranking in terms of fiscal conservatism right to left:
1. Libertarian
2. MAGA
3. Fundies, Neo Con & RINOS/Mods/Never Trumpers kind of all tied.

Ranking in terms of social conservatism right to left:
1. Fundies
2. MAGA
3. Neo Con
4. RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers
5. Libertarians

If you had to put them into 2 tents:
Tent 1: MAGA, majority of fundies & libertarians
Tent 2: Neo Cons, RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers, some fundies & libertarians.
Very close to my list. :thumb:
As a libertarian, I wouldn't put them in the same tent(s) as fundies.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:10 am
Winterborn wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:14 am

Very close to my list. :thumb:
As a libertarian, I wouldn't put them in the same tent(s) as fundies.
As a whole, I would agree. But depends on the libertarian subset. Some of them are just as delusional as a Fundamentalist.

The Fundi tent is pretty big and hosts all sorts of groups. Many of the current political groups exhibit the same behavior and desired outcomes as the religious Fundamentalists. A belief theirs is the only true path forward and they know best, the rest of society can either join or be cast aside.

Both the hard core right and left fit the bill. :twocents:
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

Trump widens lead in 2024 primary race: Quinnipiac poll

Former President Trump widened his lead over Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) to 14 points in a new Quinnipiac University poll of 15 current and potential candidates for the GOP presidential nomination.

The poll, released Wednesday, showed Trump in first with 46 percent support from Republicans and Republican-leaning voters, followed by DeSantis with 32 percent. That’s a notable increase in Trump’s lead from Quinnipiac’s poll last month that showed him leading DeSantis by 6 points, 42 percent to 36 percent.

In this month’s poll, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley came in third with 5 percent, and no other candidate surpassed 3 percent.

Trump also leads DeSantis by 11 points in a head-to-head match-up, 51 percent to 40 percent.

DeSantis has consistently been seen as the top potential challenger to Trump for the Republican nomination and has placed in at least second in most hypothetical primary polls. But the former president has maintained his position in first place in most polls too….
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3 ... piac-poll/
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..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

Will this help Trump’s primary chances? It should certainly help with martyrdom and fundraising.

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Re: 2024 Primary

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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:56 am Will this help Trump’s primary chances? It should certainly help with martyrdom and fundraising.

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The feds refused to even really pursue any charges about the Stormy Daniels case. It was a misdemeanor charge in New York, but the leftist Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, who refuses to pursue violent criminals, decided to elevate it to a felony charge. If Bragg undertakes this 100% political persecution, I’m going from leam Desantis to 100% Trump.. :nod:
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..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

BDKJMU wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:15 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:22 am

Solid break down, BDK.
Thanks, Kalm. Over the last 3 days on here I have an agreement with 88, an agreement with Houndie, and now a kudos from you. Either hell is freezing over, or I need to check my conk card to see if its still intact.. :D
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:31 am
kalm wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:56 am Will this help Trump’s primary chances? It should certainly help with martyrdom and fundraising.

Image

The feds refused to even really pursue any charges about the Stormy Daniels case. It was a misdemeanor charge in New York, but the leftist Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, who refuses to pursue violent criminals, decided to elevate it to a felony charge. If Bragg undertakes this 100% political persecution, I’m going from leam Desantis to 100% Trump.. :nod:
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by Ibanez »

kalm wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:56 am Will this help Trump’s primary chances? It should certainly help with martyrdom and fundraising.

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:lol: Even his lawyers are shaking their heads and asking, " WTF?" He's such a drama queen.


And I am absolutely loving the hypocrisy of him and his followers for talking shit about Ron DeSantis AND now asking him to step in against any arrest warrant. Anyone who follows that guy is an absolute brain dead moron...
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:31 am
kalm wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:56 am Will this help Trump’s primary chances? It should certainly help with martyrdom and fundraising.

Image

The feds refused to even really pursue any charges about the Stormy Daniels case. It was a misdemeanor charge in New York, but the leftist Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, who refuses to pursue violent criminals, decided to elevate it to a felony charge. If Bragg undertakes this 100% political persecution, I’m going from leam Desantis to 100% Trump.. :nod:
Paying someone to shut about an affair (which I am stil shocked that "Christians" are cool with) isn't illegal. It's not political persecution - Trump shouldn't have had shady business practices.


Honestly - the man takes no accountability for his actions, his companies' actions or those done in his name. How can anyone justify supporting anyone that acts that way? He's a petulant brat. And before you deflect with some Biden or Democrat - I would say the same to them. I know it's a lesser of two evils but today's politics and politicians isn't about what's best for the country. It's about winning at all costs - which is just terrible.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 pm
kalm wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:57 pm

Who are camps?

MAGA
Well healed campaign donors
Never Trumpers

Any others?
Just came up with this after thinking about it for awhile. Here‘s how I see it- 5 groups:
-MAGA (Merica 1st, populist, isolationist)
-Liberterian
-Fundies
-Neo Con (globalist, interventionist)
-RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers.

There’s overlap between the 5 groups, and people who fall within more than 1 group (but most no more than 2, none more than 3).

Ranking in terms of fiscal conservatism right to left:
1. Libertarian
2. MAGA
3. Fundies, Neo Con & RINOS/Mods/Never Trumpers kind of all tied.

Ranking in terms of social conservatism right to left:
1. Fundies
2. MAGA
3. Neo Con
4. RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers
5. Libertarians

If you had to put them into 2 tents:
Tent 1: MAGA, majority of fundies & libertarians
Tent 2: Neo Cons, RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers, some fundies & libertarians.
That isn't a bad breakdown - though Never Trumpers doesn't really describe anyone's politics. It's just someone that doesn't like 1 Person.

You're right - there's overlap b/c there are people who claim to be Libertarians or even MAGA but then wildly support anti 1A legislation. It's a cluster fuck to be sure and it's equally as messed up on the Democratic side. One person who you would say is a never trumper would rank 1 on the fiscal conservative scale (Mark Sanford). You have "Never Trumpers" like Cheney that voted more times than not with Trump than sycophants like Jim "I Groom wrestlers" Jordan and Gaetz. It's truly something to see how both parties will throw someone under the bus when they have an opinion different than the rest of the pack.

I also think the RINO designation is some what personal b/c Republicanism to me apparently means something completely different to MAGA and Neo Cons. I honestly believe RINOs make up a vast majority of the GOP today. Though I readily identify that nobody is pure Republican or Democrat. It's evolved - they used to be the party of Big Government (and to some extent, they still are). One of the hallmarks of Republicanism was a hatred of the corruption in the Democratic Party...now the standard bearer is the poster child of a corrupt businessman. We're also seeing more and more advocate "Christian Shariah Law" and falsely claiming we're a Christian country (and ignoring that part of the Constitution) - which goes against what the founders they claim to revere and love.

We're living in an interesting time. Both parties, to me, are having an identity crisis.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:50 am
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 pm
Just came up with this after thinking about it for awhile. Here‘s how I see it- 5 groups:
-MAGA (Merica 1st, populist, isolationist)
-Liberterian
-Fundies
-Neo Con (globalist, interventionist)
-RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers.

There’s overlap between the 5 groups, and people who fall within more than 1 group (but most no more than 2, none more than 3).

Ranking in terms of fiscal conservatism right to left:
1. Libertarian
2. MAGA
3. Fundies, Neo Con & RINOS/Mods/Never Trumpers kind of all tied.

Ranking in terms of social conservatism right to left:
1. Fundies
2. MAGA
3. Neo Con
4. RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers
5. Libertarians

If you had to put them into 2 tents:
Tent 1: MAGA, majority of fundies & libertarians
Tent 2: Neo Cons, RINOs/Moderates/Never Trumpers, some fundies & libertarians.
That isn't a bad breakdown - though Never Trumpers doesn't really describe anyone's politics. It's just someone that doesn't like 1 Person.

You're right - there's overlap b/c there are people who claim to be Libertarians or even MAGA but then wildly support anti 1A legislation. It's a cluster fuck to be sure and it's equally as messed up on the Democratic side. One person who you would say is a never trumper would rank 1 on the fiscal conservative scale (Mark Sanford). You have "Never Trumpers" like Cheney that voted more times than not with Trump than sycophants like Jim "I Groom wrestlers" Jordan and Gaetz. It's truly something to see how both parties will throw someone under the bus when they have an opinion different than the rest of the pack.

I also think the RINO designation is some what personal b/c Republicanism to me apparently means something completely different to MAGA and Neo Cons. I honestly believe RINOs make up a vast majority of the GOP today. Though I readily identify that nobody is pure Republican or Democrat. It's evolved - they used to be the party of Big Government (and to some extent, they still are). One of the hallmarks of Republicanism was a hatred of the corruption in the Democratic Party...now the standard bearer is the poster child of a corrupt businessman. We're also seeing more and more advocate "Christian Shariah Law" and falsely claiming we're a Christian country (and ignoring that part of the Constitution) - which goes against what the founders they claim to revere and love.

We're living in an interesting time. Both parties, to me, are having an identity crisis.
Good post. This is the problem with the two party system.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by Winterborn »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:50 am

That isn't a bad breakdown - though Never Trumpers doesn't really describe anyone's politics. It's just someone that doesn't like 1 Person.

You're right - there's overlap b/c there are people who claim to be Libertarians or even MAGA but then wildly support anti 1A legislation. It's a cluster fuck to be sure and it's equally as messed up on the Democratic side. One person who you would say is a never trumper would rank 1 on the fiscal conservative scale (Mark Sanford). You have "Never Trumpers" like Cheney that voted more times than not with Trump than sycophants like Jim "I Groom wrestlers" Jordan and Gaetz. It's truly something to see how both parties will throw someone under the bus when they have an opinion different than the rest of the pack.

I also think the RINO designation is some what personal b/c Republicanism to me apparently means something completely different to MAGA and Neo Cons. I honestly believe RINOs make up a vast majority of the GOP today. Though I readily identify that nobody is pure Republican or Democrat. It's evolved - they used to be the party of Big Government (and to some extent, they still are). One of the hallmarks of Republicanism was a hatred of the corruption in the Democratic Party...now the standard bearer is the poster child of a corrupt businessman. We're also seeing more and more advocate "Christian Shariah Law" and falsely claiming we're a Christian country (and ignoring that part of the Constitution) - which goes against what the founders they claim to revere and love.

We're living in an interesting time. Both parties, to me, are having an identity crisis.
I see echos of past discussions in that post. :D

Well said. Labels really do not mean much to me any more. I shake my head at the R's as much as the D's these days. They are useful for the low information voter but that is about it.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:44 am
Ibanez wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:50 am

That isn't a bad breakdown - though Never Trumpers doesn't really describe anyone's politics. It's just someone that doesn't like 1 Person.

You're right - there's overlap b/c there are people who claim to be Libertarians or even MAGA but then wildly support anti 1A legislation. It's a cluster fuck to be sure and it's equally as messed up on the Democratic side. One person who you would say is a never trumper would rank 1 on the fiscal conservative scale (Mark Sanford). You have "Never Trumpers" like Cheney that voted more times than not with Trump than sycophants like Jim "I Groom wrestlers" Jordan and Gaetz. It's truly something to see how both parties will throw someone under the bus when they have an opinion different than the rest of the pack.

I also think the RINO designation is some what personal b/c Republicanism to me apparently means something completely different to MAGA and Neo Cons. I honestly believe RINOs make up a vast majority of the GOP today. Though I readily identify that nobody is pure Republican or Democrat. It's evolved - they used to be the party of Big Government (and to some extent, they still are). One of the hallmarks of Republicanism was a hatred of the corruption in the Democratic Party...now the standard bearer is the poster child of a corrupt businessman. We're also seeing more and more advocate "Christian Shariah Law" and falsely claiming we're a Christian country (and ignoring that part of the Constitution) - which goes against what the founders they claim to revere and love.

We're living in an interesting time. Both parties, to me, are having an identity crisis.
I see echos of past discussions in that post. :D

Well said. Labels really do not mean much to me any more. I shake my head at the R's as much as the D's these days. They are useful for the low information voter but that is about it.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

Desantis unloads on Soros Manhattan DA Bragg.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:07 am Desantis unloads on Soros Manhattan DA Bragg.
:lol:
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