2024 Primary

Political discussions
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 10:38 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 9:54 am

No, trump started it while Biden opened the floodgates. From a Presidential (non Federal Reserve) perspective, I'd give trump 20% of the responsibility and Biden 80%.
I could agree with this.

Or could break it down further:
Trump 10%
Congress 30%
Biden 30%
Fed 30%
And I was able to post that despite my raging tDS. :D
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 12:55 pm
kalm wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 12:13 pm

Hutchinson would be the best general election candidate so far.
I would love to see the moral and logical hoops that illiberal democrats would jump through to justify their attacks on woman of color like Nikki Haley. The hypocrisy would be through the roof.
Is that really much of a thing?
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27897
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

UNI88 wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 2:40 pm
Disney is cutting that 1B/2k well paying jobs as a cost cutting measure, not because of Desantis. Remember their stock proce was down 40% last year, and they’ve been sheddi g thousands of jobs.
https://nypost.com/2023/05/19/disney-is ... -desantis/
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 23236
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 7:58 am Another thing that's going to play an impact and is only just now starting to be felt is economic conditions that impact employment. The rampant inflation train that Biden unleashed, with assistance from the Fed, has to date really just impacted prices and the costs of things. And also a few spectacular collapses of some pretty big banks. Problem is, we are going to start seeing the impact of inflation on employment - just heard at my company that we're basically doing rolling layoffs of the Production staff - off this Friday, next Friday, and then the whole week after Memorial Day. Potentially more to come. Folks are free to collect unemployment for those days and might need to for a longer term. And we're a company that, even in the 2008 disaster only laid off a handful of workers. We've been slow for a couple of weeks now and things don't look to be getting prettier in the months ahead. That recession that people said was coming (not to be confused with the recession we had earlier last year) looks to actually be coming. If it does, how it impacts people, and for how long, is going to play a huge role in next year's election. The economy trumps everything when it comes to elections. :coffee:
True - and there is always a recession coming, just a matter of timing for who gets the blame.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
User avatar
SuperHornet
SuperHornet
SuperHornet
Posts: 20264
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:24 pm
I am a fan of: Sac State
Location: Twentynine Palms, CA

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by SuperHornet »

I haven't seen any polls yet, but for those currently announced (or expected to announce), I see:

1. Tim Scott
2. Nikki Haley
3. Ron DeSantis
4. Asa Hutchinson
5. Larry Elder
6. Mike Pence
7. Chris Christie
8. Rick Perry
9. Kristi Noem
10. Donald Trump

Whether or not this has anything to do with reality is beside the point. This is more a measure of the value I see in Trump. Of course, you know who will immediately jump to the top of my list should she announce her candidacy....
Image

SuperHornet's Athletics Hall of Fame includes Jacksonville State kicker Ashley Martin, the first girl to score in a Division I football game. She kicked 3 PATs in a 2001 game for J-State.
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

SuperHornet wrote:I haven't seen any polls yet, but for those currently announced (or expected to announce), I see:

1. Tim Scott
2. Nikki Haley
3. Ron DeSantis
4. Asa Hutchinson
5. Larry Elder
6. Mike Pence
7. Chris Christie
8. Rick Perry
9. Kristi Noem
10. Donald Trump

Whether or not this has anything to do with reality is beside the point. This is more a measure of the value I see in Trump. Of course, you know who will immediately jump to the top of my list should she announce her candidacy....
Amy Grant?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 8:44 pm
SuperHornet wrote:I haven't seen any polls yet, but for those currently announced (or expected to announce), I see:

1. Tim Scott
2. Nikki Haley
3. Ron DeSantis
4. Asa Hutchinson
5. Larry Elder
6. Mike Pence
7. Chris Christie
8. Rick Perry
9. Kristi Noem
10. Donald Trump

Whether or not this has anything to do with reality is beside the point. This is more a measure of the value I see in Trump. Of course, you know who will immediately jump to the top of my list should she announce her candidacy....
Amy Grant?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ha! ^

Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27897
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

Good luck to Senator Tim Scott in entering the Republican Presidential Primary Race. It is rapidly loading up with lots of people, and Tim is a big step up from Ron DeSanctimonious, who is totally unelectable. I got Opportunity Zones done with Tim, a big deal that has been highly successful. Good luck Tim!
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrum ... 1938430836
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27897
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

The left is about to (secretly) push for Trump over Desantis, as they believe Biden can beat Trump, but can’t Desantis. Remember, according to the left, Trump is Hitler, so Desantis is worse than Hitler. MSDNC guest just said Florida about to become a terrorist state.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27897
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

BDKJMU wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 4:31 pm The left is about to (secretly) push for Trump over Desantis, as they believe Biden can beat Trump, but can’t Desantis. Remember, according to the left, Trump is Hitler, so Desantis is worse than Hitler. MSDNC guest just said Florida about to become a terrorist state.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 27897
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

Desantis must be about to announce..
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by SeattleGriz »

Conservative Pillow Fort called DeSantis running a LONG time ago. I will say they REALLY don't like DeSantis, but you can see why. He lied when he said he was only interested in being the Governor of Florida, so he had them change the rules. He can now run and not step down!! In addition, CPF really hates who is backing DeSantis, as it's all establishment money.

Me? If DeSantis can remain 70% true to who he portrays himself to be right now, I'd be okay with that, but not sure he can.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1558 ... 36833.html

Quote is not from link.
Generally speaking, when an inflection point is organized by the systems of power, such as a Ron DeSantis 2024 announcement, the traditional rulebook they follow instructs them to allow the introduced variable a full media cycle [36hour window] for the new narrative to settle as it dominates the news and public psyche. After the full media cycle, the support operation begins.

If the traditional process is followed, and with Ron DeSantis making his announcement tomorrow, that puts the next indictment of President Trump on a schedule for Friday (ish). I say “ish” because if the indictment people see positive value in the RdS rollout, they may delay a weekend media cycle. So Friday or Monday, depending on how they view the success of the created inflection point
You see that? CPF is saying Trump will be indicted very closely to DeSantis announcing his run for the Presidency.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:10 pm Conservative Pillow Fort called DeSantis running a LONG time ago. I will say they REALLY don't like DeSantis, but you can see why. He lied when he said he was only interested in being the Governor of Florida, so he had them change the rules. He can now run and not step down!! In addition, CPF really hates who is backing DeSantis, as it's all establishment money.

Me? If DeSantis can remain 70% true to who he portrays himself to be right now, I'd be okay with that, but not sure he can.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1558 ... 36833.html

Quote is not from link.
Generally speaking, when an inflection point is organized by the systems of power, such as a Ron DeSantis 2024 announcement, the traditional rulebook they follow instructs them to allow the introduced variable a full media cycle [36hour window] for the new narrative to settle as it dominates the news and public psyche. After the full media cycle, the support operation begins.

If the traditional process is followed, and with Ron DeSantis making his announcement tomorrow, that puts the next indictment of President Trump on a schedule for Friday (ish). I say “ish” because if the indictment people see positive value in the RdS rollout, they may delay a weekend media cycle. So Friday or Monday, depending on how they view the success of the created inflection point
You see that? CPF is saying Trump will be indicted very closely to DeSantis announcing his run for the Presidency.
If CFP doesn't like desantis because he lied, who do they like? Scott? It can't be trump, he's a serial liar.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by SeattleGriz »

UNI88 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:10 pm Conservative Pillow Fort called DeSantis running a LONG time ago. I will say they REALLY don't like DeSantis, but you can see why. He lied when he said he was only interested in being the Governor of Florida, so he had them change the rules. He can now run and not step down!! In addition, CPF really hates who is backing DeSantis, as it's all establishment money.

Me? If DeSantis can remain 70% true to who he portrays himself to be right now, I'd be okay with that, but not sure he can.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1558 ... 36833.html

Quote is not from link.



You see that? CPF is saying Trump will be indicted very closely to DeSantis announcing his run for the Presidency.
If CFP doesn't like desantis because he lied, who do they like? Scott? It can't be trump, he's a serial liar.
They love Trump simply because Trump is more nationalist than globalist. Regardless, we'll see if bad news about Trump is rolled out within the predicted 36-48 hour cycle after DeSantis admits he's always had his eyes on 2024.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:53 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm

If CFP doesn't like desantis because he lied, who do they like? Scott? It can't be trump, he's a serial liar.
They love Trump simply because Trump is more nationalist than globalist. Regardless, we'll see if bad news about Trump is rolled out within the predicted 36-48 hour cycle after DeSantis admits he's always had his eyes on 2024.
trump is a trumpist. The only thing he cares about is himself. He's fooled a lot of suckers into believing he cares about the nation in order to feed his own ego.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by SeattleGriz »

UNI88 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 8:08 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:53 pm

They love Trump simply because Trump is more nationalist than globalist. Regardless, we'll see if bad news about Trump is rolled out within the predicted 36-48 hour cycle after DeSantis admits he's always had his eyes on 2024.
trump is a trumpist. The only thing he cares about is himself. He's fooled a lot of suckers into believing he cares about the nation in order to feed his own ego.
:rofl: I would say his record of accomplishment outweighs the fact he acts and speaks like a CEO ever day. You keep holding your breath for a virtuous, honest politician. I bet you can't hold your breath that long.

Some people who are minorly perceptive can see actions speak louder than words and others can't.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19955
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 8:36 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 8:08 pm
trump is a trumpist. The only thing he cares about is himself. He's fooled a lot of suckers into believing he cares about the nation in order to feed his own ego.
:rofl: I would say his record of accomplishment outweighs the fact he acts and speaks like a CEO ever day. You keep holding your breath for a virtuous, honest politician. I bet you can't hold your breath that long.

Some people who are minorly perceptive can see actions speak louder than words and others can't.
Justin Amash isn't perfect but he's a lot more virtuous than trump and just about any other elected official in DC. I would take him or Gary Johnson over trump, Biden and the other clowns. There are plenty of virtuous and honest politicians at the local level.

Action speak louder than words? trump's actions include sexual assault and rape, bribery to cover up an affair with a porn star, refusing to pay subcontractors for time and materials, and on and on. So I see his actions and they define the kind of person he is.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by SeattleGriz »

UNI88 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:12 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 8:36 pm

:rofl: I would say his record of accomplishment outweighs the fact he acts and speaks like a CEO ever day. You keep holding your breath for a virtuous, honest politician. I bet you can't hold your breath that long.

Some people who are minorly perceptive can see actions speak louder than words and others can't.
Justin Amash isn't perfect but he's a lot more virtuous than trump and just about any other elected official in DC. I would take him or Gary Johnson over trump, Biden and the other clowns. There are plenty of virtuous and honest politicians at the local level.

Action speak louder than words? trump's actions include sexual assault and rape, bribery to cover up an affair with a porn star, refusing to pay subcontractors for time and materials, and on and on. So I see his actions and they define the kind of person he is.
Yes, Amash would be awesome as President, then you'd wake up from your dream. Ben Carson would be awesome, but we both know he's not going to be elected, especially with racists like Klam hating him. Gotta keep those black conservatives from leaving the plantation.


How did any of your speculation concerning Trump turn into reality by his bad choices as President?
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59305
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:31 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:12 pm

Justin Amash isn't perfect but he's a lot more virtuous than trump and just about any other elected official in DC. I would take him or Gary Johnson over trump, Biden and the other clowns. There are plenty of virtuous and honest politicians at the local level.

Action speak louder than words? trump's actions include sexual assault and rape, bribery to cover up an affair with a porn star, refusing to pay subcontractors for time and materials, and on and on. So I see his actions and they define the kind of person he is.
Yes, Amash would be awesome as President, then you'd wake up from your dream. Ben Carson would be awesome, but we both know he's not going to be elected, especially with racists like Klam hating him. Gotta keep those black conservatives from leaving the plantation.


How did any of your speculation concerning Trump turn into reality by his bad choices as President?
1). I don’t hate Carson and I’m sure he’s a savant when it comes to surgery.

Image

2). You mention nationalist likes it a good thing here.

3). Trump talks like a CEO. Is this the kind of CEO you’d like to work for?
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:47 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:31 pm

Yes, Amash would be awesome as President, then you'd wake up from your dream. Ben Carson would be awesome, but we both know he's not going to be elected, especially with racists like Klam hating him. Gotta keep those black conservatives from leaving the plantation.


How did any of your speculation concerning Trump turn into reality by his bad choices as President?
1). I don’t hate Carson and I’m sure he’s a savant when it comes to surgery.

Image

2). You mention nationalist likes it a good thing here.

3). Trump talks like a CEO. Is this the kind of CEO you’d like to work for?
:lol: :thumb: On the Jesus/Carson pic. I know you don't hate Carson and I know you're not racist...but I gotta keep beating that horse for fun.

You think a globalist is better than a nationalist, especially as President. I love the company I work for, but I can cite at least 4 instances where they took engineering jobs paying $200k and shipped them to India, Russia or Ukraine for 1/4 the pay. My wife's uncle saw that happen as a senior engineer who gave 30 years of his life on the defense side. That's what Globalism gets you.

Lastly, you need to listen to CEOs. Always full of shit. Whenever something bad happens, they always refer to the company as "doing great". When was the last time you heard Musk or Bezos say things were shitty at their companies? Never. That was Trump. "It's awesome. Best ever".
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 23236
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

BDKJMU wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 4:20 pm
Good luck to Senator Tim Scott in entering the Republican Presidential Primary Race. It is rapidly loading up with lots of people, and Tim is a big step up from Ron DeSanctimonious, who is totally unelectable. I got Opportunity Zones done with Tim, a big deal that has been highly successful. Good luck Tim!
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrum ... 1938430836
You can just feel the fear in Trump. :rofl:

He'd spontaneously combust if he lost to Tim Scott. :coffee:
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 23236
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:53 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:35 pm

If CFP doesn't like desantis because he lied, who do they like? Scott? It can't be trump, he's a serial liar.
They love Trump simply because Trump is more nationalist than globalist. Regardless, we'll see if bad news about Trump is rolled out within the predicted 36-48 hour cycle after DeSantis admits he's always had his eyes on 2024.
So what does it mean if Monday comes and goes and Jabba the Gut isn't indicted?
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
User avatar
SeattleGriz
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 16534
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:41 am
I am a fan of: Montana
A.K.A.: PhxGriz

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by SeattleGriz »

houndawg wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 5:38 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 7:53 pm

They love Trump simply because Trump is more nationalist than globalist. Regardless, we'll see if bad news about Trump is rolled out within the predicted 36-48 hour cycle after DeSantis admits he's always had his eyes on 2024.
So what does it mean if Monday comes and goes and Jabba the Gut isn't indicted?
It obviously means their prediction was incorrect, but still points out useful information the majority of the people don't pay attention to.
Everything is better with SeattleGriz
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 23236
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:28 am
houndawg wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 5:38 am

So what does it mean if Monday comes and goes and Jabba the Gut isn't indicted?
It obviously means their prediction was incorrect, but still points out useful information the majority of the people don't pay attention to.
Ty Cobb thinjks the OJ case is solid
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
houndawg
Level5
Level5
Posts: 23236
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: SIU
A.K.A.: houndawg
Location: Egypt

Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

SeattleGriz wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 8:36 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 8:08 pm

trump is a trumpist. The only thing he cares about is himself. He's fooled a lot of suckers into believing he cares about the nation in order to feed his own ego.
:rofl: I would say his record of accomplishment outweighs the fact he acts and speaks like a CEO ever day. You keep holding your breath for a virtuous, honest politician. I bet you can't hold your breath that long.

Some people who are minorly perceptive can see actions speak louder than words and others can't.
What does it say when you're banned from raising money for charities because you stole money from charities for veterans and kids with cancer? Other than that for you there is no bottom, of course.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
Post Reply