2024 Primary

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Re: 2024 Primaries

Post by BDKJMU »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:40 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:03 pm
Its absolutely costing conks at least a couple of points, so its absolutely costing them in close elections. 2020 Biden won PA by 1.17% If had been running 2020 election under 2016 rules Trump wins.

2022 a large chunk of early (mostly drop off/mail in) had already been cast before Fetterman's disasterous debate performance. If McCormick wins that primary over Oz (that he lost by a fraction of 1%), it would have been closer race between McCormick/Fetterman, but I doubt McCormick wins. Course we'll never know for sure. Yeah, if Toomey had run again, he probably wins, buts its close, closer than it would be under the old rules.

Conks in PA (applies to other states too with newly enacted mass mail in) unfortunately will have to stop fighting no excuse absentee mass mail in/drop off, and encourage it during elections because it beats day of in person as far as turnout. I don't like it, but you have to take full advantage of the rules in place. You always have some people who intended to vote day of in person, but they forget, or were too busy, didn't get around to it, yada, yada. Might only be a small percentage, but that can be the difference maker in close elections.

Conks also need to do what donks have done the last 2 elections. Late summer/early fall go before large gatherings, esp where you have a lot of working class/blue collar, where a clear majority are either registered conks, or conk leaning (guns shows, auto racing, rodeos, country music concerts (certain artists anyway), etc), and have them fill out & submit absentee applications (online or mail). Sure some of those people would otherwise vote anyway, be it in person or mail, and some won't bother to fill out and mail/drop off the ballot they are mailed, but conks would definitely pick up votes on the margins and boost their turnout..
I think McCormick probably does win, just a better candidate. And the ballots didn't have anything to do with the fact that the real thing that hurt Oz, other than his attachment to Trump and other than the abominable candidate running for governor, was that he didn't make Fetterman's health and resistance to debate a bigger issue soon enough.

Other than that, though, making things easier for people to vote (i.e. no excuse mail in voting) is never a bad thing, assuming they are controlled and counted properly. We want people to vote, and we want more people to vote. Trying to get less people to vote is not really a good goal to have.
I believe it makes fraud easier or more likely than in person. I know this has already been beaten to death on here, but I don't believe there's any valid reason you can't have absentee limited to excuse (out of town during election day/week, infirm, the military, etc) and everyone else vote in person (make a national holiday, have the polls open for several days), with voter ID. Heck, apparently 46 of 47 European countries require voter ID, about 3/4 don't even allow absentee, and the majority that allow absentee require voter ID for absentee. And they are suppose to be more enlightened than us..
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Re: 2024 Primaries

Post by GannonFan »

BDKJMU wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:56 pm
GannonFan wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:40 pm

I think McCormick probably does win, just a better candidate. And the ballots didn't have anything to do with the fact that the real thing that hurt Oz, other than his attachment to Trump and other than the abominable candidate running for governor, was that he didn't make Fetterman's health and resistance to debate a bigger issue soon enough.

Other than that, though, making things easier for people to vote (i.e. no excuse mail in voting) is never a bad thing, assuming they are controlled and counted properly. We want people to vote, and we want more people to vote. Trying to get less people to vote is not really a good goal to have.
I believe it makes fraud easier or more likely than in person. I know this has already been beaten to death on here, but I don't believe there's any valid reason you can't have absentee limited to excuse (out of town during election day/week, infirm, the military, etc) and everyone else vote in person (make a national holiday, have the polls open for several days), with voter ID. Heck, apparently 46 of 47 European countries require voter ID, about 3/4 don't even allow absentee, and the majority that allow absentee require voter ID for absentee. And they are suppose to be more enlightened than us..
I can get behind that. And yes, fraud is easier without the in person vote. I don't think that's arguable. Good stuff.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

The base is fired up.


With that in mind, here are two CPAC takeaways. First, the people who attended CPAC are not some loony far-right fringe of the party. They’re not—as so many “wise” conservative thinkers at the outlets that once defined the conservative mainstream have opined and prayed and hoped for—a temporary populist spasm that will go away. CPAC attendees represent the base of the Republican party. They are the party. They represent GOP party activists, the most committed, involved and engaged Republican voters. There was nothing “fringe” about CPAC this past weekend. This was mainstream GOP. The stolen election lies, the vaccine paranoia, the fearmongering about a “deep state,” the obsession with Hunter Biden, the cruelty toward transgender people, the bowing down to Putin, the demand that Anthony Fauci be behind bars, the authoritarian impulse to punish private individuals and companies deemed too “woke”—this is all quite literally the agenda of the current Republican-controlled House of Representatives. If you call CPAC attendees fringe, then you must call the House Republican Conference fringe.

It’s like when people still try to tell me that Marjorie Taylor Greene is GOP fringe. She’s not GOP fringe. She represents GOP base voters. She represents all the activists gathered at CPAC this past weekend. And she is arguably the most powerful Republican in Washington. Kevin McCarthy is speaker because of her, and Tucker Carlson received all that January 6th surveillance footage because of her. A “fringe” character would not have anything like that kind of power within the party.

Second, the Republican Party voting base has been radicalized. They no longer believe in truth, they’ve given up on democracy, they want to destroy their political opponents, and they want an authoritarian to give them back the America they long for. This radicalization was on full display these past four days. From ‘Joe Biden is not the legitimate occupant of the White House’ to ‘COVID was a hoax’ to ‘transgender Americans need to be eradicated’ . . . the lies, disinformation, misinformation, attacks on our democracy, cultish calls for an authoritarian, and utter cruelty—it was all there. This radicalism is not a bug; it is a core feature of today’s GOP.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:37 am The base is fired up.


With that in mind, here are two CPAC takeaways. First, the people who attended CPAC are not some loony far-right fringe of the party. They’re not—as so many “wise” conservative thinkers at the outlets that once defined the conservative mainstream have opined and prayed and hoped for—a temporary populist spasm that will go away. CPAC attendees represent the base of the Republican party. They are the party. They represent GOP party activists, the most committed, involved and engaged Republican voters. There was nothing “fringe” about CPAC this past weekend. This was mainstream GOP. The stolen election lies, the vaccine paranoia, the fearmongering about a “deep state,” the obsession with Hunter Biden, the cruelty toward transgender people, the bowing down to Putin, the demand that Anthony Fauci be behind bars, the authoritarian impulse to punish private individuals and companies deemed too “woke”—this is all quite literally the agenda of the current Republican-controlled House of Representatives. If you call CPAC attendees fringe, then you must call the House Republican Conference fringe.

It’s like when people still try to tell me that Marjorie Taylor Greene is GOP fringe. She’s not GOP fringe. She represents GOP base voters. She represents all the activists gathered at CPAC this past weekend. And she is arguably the most powerful Republican in Washington. Kevin McCarthy is speaker because of her, and Tucker Carlson received all that January 6th surveillance footage because of her. A “fringe” character would not have anything like that kind of power within the party.

Second, the Republican Party voting base has been radicalized. They no longer believe in truth, they’ve given up on democracy, they want to destroy their political opponents, and they want an authoritarian to give them back the America they long for. This radicalization was on full display these past four days. From ‘Joe Biden is not the legitimate occupant of the White House’ to ‘COVID was a hoax’ to ‘transgender Americans need to be eradicated’ . . . the lies, disinformation, misinformation, attacks on our democracy, cultish calls for an authoritarian, and utter cruelty—it was all there. This radicalism is not a bug; it is a core feature of today’s GOP.
Look in the mirror, the Democratic Party has also been radicalized.

Republicans / Democrats
  • They no longer believe in truth / They no longer believe in truth
  • They’ve given up on democracy/They’ve given up on the republic
  • They want to destroy their political opponents / They want to destroy their political opponents
  • They want an authoritarian to give them back the America they long for / They want authoritarians to force the America they desire upon everyone else
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:16 am
kalm wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:37 am The base is fired up.



Look in the mirror, the Democratic Party has also been radicalized.

Republicans / Democrats
  • They no longer believe in truth / They no longer believe in truth
  • They’ve given up on democracy/They’ve given up on the republic
  • They want to destroy their political opponents / They want to destroy their political opponents
  • They want an authoritarian to give them back the America they long for / They want authoritarians to force the America they desire upon everyone else
I’m not a Democrat. But yes they are conniving and corrupt. I didn’t know they’ve given up on Democracy or desire an authoritarian though.

Good stuff! :)
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

Uh oh…

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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:28 am Uh oh…

Certainly not encouraging. But, on the bright side, we're still a year out from the primaries and that means a whole year worth of soundbites and other events for Trump to get into trouble with. Maybe the GOP will pull a Dem like they did with Sanders and all support one person to avoid picking the frontrunning but surefire general election loser? And besides, this is just New Hampshire. They're not the barometer of the nation as they maybe were before. Just too cold up there.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by Winterborn »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:56 am
Certainly not encouraging. But, on the bright side, we're still a year out from the primaries and that means a whole year worth of soundbites and other events for Trump to get into trouble with. Maybe the GOP will pull a Dem like they did with Sanders and all support one person to avoid picking the frontrunning but surefire general election loser? And besides, this is just New Hampshire. They're not the barometer of the nation as they maybe were before. Just too cold up there.
Cleveland pulled it off. :D
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:24 am
UNI88 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:16 am

Look in the mirror, the Democratic Party has also been radicalized.

Republicans / Democrats
  • They no longer believe in truth / They no longer believe in truth
  • They’ve given up on democracy/They’ve given up on the republic
  • They want to destroy their political opponents / They want to destroy their political opponents
  • They want an authoritarian to give them back the America they long for / They want authoritarians to force the America they desire upon everyone else
I’m not a Democrat. But yes they are conniving and corrupt. I didn’t know they’ve given up on Democracy or desire an authoritarian though.

Good stuff! :)
Democrats haven't given up on Democracy, they've given up on the Republic. The US is a Republic and the Senate, Electoral College, etc. are key elements that Democrats are attempting to undermine.

It will take an authoritarian government to force the America they want upon everyone else. Ever if it didn't, the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire will end up being authoritarian.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:56 am
kalm wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:28 am Uh oh…

Certainly not encouraging. But, on the bright side, we're still a year out from the primaries and that means a whole year worth of soundbites and other events for Trump to get into trouble with. Maybe the GOP will pull a Dem like they did with Sanders and all support one person to avoid picking the frontrunning but surefire general election loser? And besides, this is just New Hampshire. They're not the barometer of the nation as they maybe were before. Just too cold up there.
I don't have any idea what other result His Obsequiousness Mike Pence could have possibly been expecting after the way he continues to grovel at the feet of the turd who sicked the mob on him... :ohno: ....the Evangelicals own Linsey Graham...
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:41 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:24 am

I’m not a Democrat. But yes they are conniving and corrupt. I didn’t know they’ve given up on Democracy or desire an authoritarian though.

Good stuff! :)
Democrats haven't given up on Democracy, they've given up on the Republic. The US is a Republic and the Senate, Electoral College, etc. are key elements that Democrats are attempting to undermine.

It will take an authoritarian government to force the America they want upon everyone else. Ever if it didn't, the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire will end up being authoritarian.


Well....I bet people who need insulin won't see it as all bad
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

houndawg wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:12 pm
UNI88 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:41 pm
Democrats haven't given up on Democracy, they've given up on the Republic. The US is a Republic and the Senate, Electoral College, etc. are key elements that Democrats are attempting to undermine.

It will take an authoritarian government to force the America they want upon everyone else. Ever if it didn't, the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire will end up being authoritarian.
Well....I bet people who need insulin won't see it as all bad
When they can't get insulin and have to wait in lines to get food they would.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by BDKJMU »

Another example of why we need an age limit of say 74/not hitting 75 by the date taking office (so the date leaving office no POTUS over 78 and no senator over 80 in office. If you’re that old its way past time to f’ing retire. This goes for Biden, Trump, and a bunch in Congress.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:26 pm
houndawg wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:12 pm

Well....I bet people who need insulin won't see it as all bad
When they can't get insulin and have to wait in lines to get food they would.
Can they get insulin in Puerto Rico? Are there food shortages in Norway?
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:19 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:26 pm
When they can't get insulin and have to wait in lines to get food they would.
Can they get insulin in Puerto Rico? Are there food shortages in Norway?
Yes, they can. Puerto Rico is part of the US and Norway doesn't have the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:31 am
kalm wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:19 am

Can they get insulin in Puerto Rico? Are there food shortages in Norway?
Yes, they can. Puerto Rico is part of the US and Norway doesn't have the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire.
Oops. I meant Costa Rica.

How big and powerful are the Nordic’s governments?
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Re: 2024 Primary

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kalm wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:35 am
UNI88 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:31 am
Yes, they can. Puerto Rico is part of the US and Norway doesn't have the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire.
Oops. I meant Costa Rica.

How big and powerful are the Nordic’s governments?
Not big enough. The Nordic countries have capitalist economies so the governments don't control the markets which is an important part of controlling the people.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:26 pm
houndawg wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:12 pm

Well....I bet people who need insulin won't see it as all bad
When they can't get insulin and have to wait in lines to get food they would.
And when will that be happening, Mildred?
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Re: 2024 Primary

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UNI88 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:22 am
kalm wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:35 am

Oops. I meant Costa Rica.

How big and powerful are the Nordic’s governments?
Not big enough. The Nordic countries have capitalist economies so the governments don't control the markets which is an important part of controlling the people.
looks like somebody lost his faith in the free market :mrgreen:
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

houndawg wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:16 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:26 pm

When they can't get insulin and have to wait in lines to get food they would.
And when will that be happening, Mildred?
It will happen if Bernie, Fauxahontas, AOChe, etc. get their way, Gertrude.
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by kalm »

houndawg wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:18 am
UNI88 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:22 am

Not big enough. The Nordic countries have capitalist economies so the governments don't control the markets which is an important part of controlling the people.
looks like somebody lost his faith in the free market :mrgreen:
I caught that one too…

Democratic socialism is socialist adjacent. Scary bad.

What about Norway?

They’re mostly capitalists.

Aren’t American progressives similar?

Means of production, AOC, BERNIE…..AAAARGH!!!
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:12 am
houndawg wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:18 am

looks like somebody lost his faith in the free market :mrgreen:
I caught that one too…

Democratic socialism is socialist adjacent. Scary bad.

What about Norway?

They’re mostly capitalists.

Aren’t American progressives similar?

Means of production, AOC, BERNIE…..AAAARGH!!!
I haven't lost faith and you and DeputyDawg must be having trouble keeping up with the context of the discussion. I can understand why Dawg is having issues in his dottage. What's your excuse?

88: "Norway doesn't have the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire."
kalm: "How big and powerful are the Nordic’s governments?"
88: "Not big enough. The Nordic countries have capitalist economies so the governments don't control the markets which is an important part of controlling the people."

That last sentence adds the context that you and Dawg don't seem to understand. The Nordic countries' governments aren't big and powerful enough that they have control of the economy like Bernie and the brahs dream of.

Capiche?
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:09 am
kalm wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:12 am

I caught that one too…

Democratic socialism is socialist adjacent. Scary bad.

What about Norway?

They’re mostly capitalists.

Aren’t American progressives similar?

Means of production, AOC, BERNIE…..AAAARGH!!!
I haven't lost faith and you and DeputyDawg must be having trouble keeping up with the context of the discussion. I can understand why Dawg is having issues in his dottage. What's your excuse?

88: "Norway doesn't have the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire."
kalm: "How big and powerful are the Nordic’s governments?"
88: "Not big enough. The Nordic countries have capitalist economies so the governments don't control the markets which is an important part of controlling the people."

That last sentence adds the context that you and Dawg don't seem to understand. The Nordic countries' governments aren't big and powerful enough that they have control of the economy like Bernie and the brahs dream of.

Capiche?
At least I know how to spell "dotage". :coffee:
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by UNI88 »

houndawg wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:24 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:09 am
I haven't lost faith and you and DeputyDawg must be having trouble keeping up with the context of the discussion. I can understand why Dawg is having issues in his dottage. What's your excuse?

88: "Norway doesn't have the big, uber-powerful federal government that Democrats desire."
kalm: "How big and powerful are the Nordic’s governments?"
88: "Not big enough. The Nordic countries have capitalist economies so the governments don't control the markets which is an important part of controlling the people."

That last sentence adds the context that you and Dawg don't seem to understand. The Nordic countries' governments aren't big and powerful enough that they have control of the economy like Bernie and the brahs dream of.

Capiche?
At least I know how to spell "dotage". :coffee:
You should, you're living it ... :poke:
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Re: 2024 Primary

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:34 am
houndawg wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:24 am

At least I know how to spell "dotage". :coffee:
You should, you're living it ... :poke:
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