Eating Their Own

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UNI88
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Re: Eating Their Own

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:55 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:34 pm
Good. Are you done mansplaining to me what populism is? ;)

Are Manchin and Sinema "driven to maintain the established wealth and power dynamic" or are they representing the voters of their state whose interests and priorities might be very different from those of the voters that AOChe represents in New York City?

Are you deflecting from the reality that primarying Manchin or Sinema will in all likelihood restrict the ability to implement progressive ideas. Do pseudo-progressives want to implement their ideas or are they content to talk about how great they are and lament their inability to make them happen because the rest of the country isn't evolved enough? Agitating is easy, working within the frameworks of our Republic to pass legislation can be hard and takes thought and effort. :coffee:
What’s polling like for increasing the minimum wage? Were they elected only as awesome independent individuals or did they get support from the party who is pushing for the increase? Where does their campaign funding come from or do you actually believe these are simply principled stands in the best interest of their constituents?

I already acknowledged the short term danger of a primary fight. That’s a party’s problem. A non-partisan view should be what’s in the best long term interests for the people. Similar to renewable energy and socialized medicine, fighting against a liveable wage is fighting the inevitable. It’s simply how long before we get there.

FTR, I think there’s merit to tying the wage to cost of living and means testing. The ultimate problem lies with too many people relying on minimum wage jobs to support a family. When they can’t, the tax payers still pick up the bill.
While I don't oppose tieing the minimum wage to the cost of living I also don't think every job provides enough value to the employer to justify paying a living wage. Maybe the people in those jobs should follow the advice given to the laid-off pipeline workers and get job training and/or move to locations where the jobs are.

Do you pay everyone at your course a living wage? How many young people who are living with their parents or buddies do you have on staff? How many older, retired people who are staying active and supplementing their retirement income?

How do you calculate living wage? Is a spouse's or roommate's income included? What is a reasonable commute time to factor in?

I moved 2,000 miles away from my kids for a job. I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who thinks they're entitled to a living wage at their current job but is unwilling to pursue training and/or move to another location for a better-paying job. Being self-reliant and making sacrifices to pursue opportunity is just as much a part of the American identity as helping your neighbors during times of need.
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Re: Eating Their Own

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:03 am
kalm wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:55 am

What’s polling like for increasing the minimum wage? Were they elected only as awesome independent individuals or did they get support from the party who is pushing for the increase? Where does their campaign funding come from or do you actually believe these are simply principled stands in the best interest of their constituents?

I already acknowledged the short term danger of a primary fight. That’s a party’s problem. A non-partisan view should be what’s in the best long term interests for the people. Similar to renewable energy and socialized medicine, fighting against a liveable wage is fighting the inevitable. It’s simply how long before we get there.

FTR, I think there’s merit to tying the wage to cost of living and means testing. The ultimate problem lies with too many people relying on minimum wage jobs to support a family. When they can’t, the tax payers still pick up the bill.
While I don't oppose tieing the minimum wage to the cost of living I also don't think every job provides enough value to the employer to justify paying a living wage. Maybe the people in those jobs should follow the advice given to the laid-off pipeline workers and get job training and/or move to locations where the jobs are.

Do you pay everyone at your course a living wage? How many young people who are living with their parents or buddies do you have on staff? How many older, retired people who are staying active and supplementing their retirement income?

How do you calculate living wage? Is a spouse's or roommate's income included? What is a reasonable commute time to factor in?

I moved 2,000 miles away from my kids for a job. I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who thinks they're entitled to a living wage at their current job but is unwilling to pursue training and/or move to another location for a better-paying job. Being self-reliant and making sacrifices to pursue opportunity is just as much a part of the American identity as helping your neighbors during times of need.

Agree. As I’ve mentioned before when I have state mandated wage increases, I’m forced to give raises to 3/4’s of our staff (mostly HS and college dependents or part-time retirees) at the expense of more experienced and deserving full time workers who often have families to support. It also puts us at disadvantage to management companies and muni’s (there are 7 muni courses in Spokane County) who can more easily absorb the higher wages and/or are non-profit. Ma and pa daily fee operations like ours and in so many other industries are going bye bye. The trend is moving toward only municipal and private/high end resort and daily fee surviving.

I truly know both sides of this argument.

Regarding moving, I’m guessing most minimum wage workers have a tougher time with that than you from an expense standpoint, child custody, etc.

It also bears risks like the pipeline. Few guarantees of long term employment.

Peel back the layers more and the issue would be less of a big deal if people who can’t afford to have kids wouldn’t.
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Re: Eating Their Own

Post by andy7171 »

HEY! This thread has nothing to do with Sprout jerking off!
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Re: Eating Their Own

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:28 am
UNI88 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:03 am
While I don't oppose tying the minimum wage to the cost of living I also don't think every job provides enough value to the employer to justify paying a living wage. Maybe the people in those jobs should follow the advice given to the laid-off pipeline workers and get job training and/or move to locations where the jobs are.

Do you pay everyone at your course a living wage? How many young people who are living with their parents or buddies do you have on staff? How many older, retired people who are staying active and supplementing their retirement income?

How do you calculate living wage? Is a spouse's or roommate's income included? What is a reasonable commute time to factor in?

I moved 2,000 miles away from my kids for a job. I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who thinks they're entitled to a living wage at their current job but is unwilling to pursue training and/or move to another location for a better-paying job. Being self-reliant and making sacrifices to pursue opportunity is just as much a part of the American identity as helping your neighbors during times of need.

Agree. As I’ve mentioned before when I have state mandated wage increases, I’m forced to give raises to 3/4’s of our staff (mostly HS and college dependents or part-time retirees) at the expense of more experienced and deserving full time workers who often have families to support. It also puts us at disadvantage to management companies and muni’s (there are 7 muni courses in Spokane County) who can more easily absorb the higher wages and/or are non-profit. Ma and pa daily fee operations like ours and in so many other industries are going bye bye. The trend is moving toward only municipal and private/high end resort and daily fee surviving.

I truly know both sides of this argument.

Regarding moving, I’m guessing most minimum wage workers have a tougher time with that than you from an expense standpoint, child custody, etc.

It also bears risks like the pipeline. Few guarantees of long term employment.

Peel back the layers more and the issue would be less of a big deal if people who can’t afford to have kids wouldn’t.
It would be difficult but not impossible for a minimum wage worker to relocate. Yes there are risks but living life has risks. You're not going to get ahead or make money if you don't take some chances. It's a choice and more importantly an opportunity. It's up to the individual to pursue it. How much assistance is reasonable if they're not going to pursue available opportunities?

You can't say fvck the pipeline workers, they can get training and move to where the new jobs are and not say the same thing to other people who are unemployed.

You're absolutely right about people having kids who can't afford it but some would say that that perspective is an example of whiteness.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: Eating Their Own

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Senate parliamentarian rules $15 min wage can’t be included in Senate bill under 50 vote reconciliation. So put a fork in it- its not happening.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2AQ01U
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Re: Eating Their Own

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BDKJMU wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:18 am Senate parliamentarian rules $15 min wage can’t be included in Senate bill under 50 vote reconciliation. So put a fork in it- its not happening.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2AQ01U
harris being pushed to “ignore” the parliamentarian.
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Re: Eating Their Own

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AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:32 am
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:18 am Senate parliamentarian rules $15 min wage can’t be included in Senate bill under 50 vote reconciliation. So put a fork in it- its not happening.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2AQ01U
harris being pushed to “ignore” the parliamentarian.
Is that like Pence being pushed to ignore the Constitution?
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Re: Eating Their Own

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Ibanez wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:55 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:32 am

harris being pushed to “ignore” the parliamentarian.
Is that like Pence being pushed to ignore the Constitution?
Similar, but different.
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Re: Eating Their Own

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AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:31 am
Ibanez wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:55 am
Is that like Pence being pushed to ignore the Constitution?
Similar, but different.
:nod:

Ignoring the Constitution is a whole lot worse than ignoring the parliamentarian. In their defense, many of the insurrectionists calling for Pence to ignore the Constitution truly believed that the election had been stolen. They are responsible for their actions despite regardless of their gullibility.
Last edited by UNI88 on Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eating Their Own

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AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:31 am
Ibanez wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:55 am

Is that like Pence being pushed to ignore the Constitution?
Similar, but different.
Right...Pence was being asked to overthrow an election and ignore our laws not a Senate rule.

Like 89 said....different boss, same as the old.
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Re: Eating Their Own

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:17 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:31 am

Similar, but different.
Right...Pence was being asked to overthrow an election and ignore our laws not a Senate rule.

Like 89 said....different boss, same as the old.
So why ask the question then, smart ass?
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Re: Eating Their Own

Post by BDKJMU »

AZGrizFan wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:32 am
BDKJMU wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:18 am Senate parliamentarian rules $15 min wage can’t be included in Senate bill under 50 vote reconciliation. So put a fork in it- its not happening.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2AQ01U
harris being pushed to “ignore” the parliamentarian.
Then what? Pass the 90% non Covid Covid Relief Bill with 48 votes, because Manchin & Sinema already said they don't support raising the fed min wage to $15 an hr.
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..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
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