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That is why it’s so, so important that justice be done. Fully. The way it should be. They weren’t rioters, they were fascists, and that wasn’t an insurrection, that was a coup. And it should be punished and treated as such. For the three reasons I’ve outlined above. Let me repeat them and simplify them.

One: you can’t compromise with fascists because they are totalitarians to begin with. They only believe in a violent, hateful, ignorant, binary worldview, and so any compromise is a lie, a trick, a strategy, doomed to fail.

Two. You shouldn’t compromise with fascists and terrorists because it creates a norm with a very special name all its own: appeasement. And there is no road to ruin swifter and surer than appeasement — just ask history, or America 2016–2020, which appeased its way, one weary, surrendering step at a time, from rhetorical hate and scapegoating to concentration camps to kids in cages to Gestapos beating moms in the streets, all the way to a violent coup at the Capitol. That’s not some kind of coincidence — it’s stark proof of an old, old truth. The only way appeasement ever ends is with the fascists and terrorists winning.

Three. You give terrorists no mercy because when you do, they have succeeded at terrorising. They have demonstrated that they can get away with it, and that’s scary: it has chilling effects on society, it emboldens them, it keeps their movements alive, it lets them laugh at the wrist-slap, which is exactly what scares the sane and thoughtful person who opposes them.

When you give terrorists mercy and quarter, they have succeeded in their mission, which was to terrorize. They have scared you into treating them lightly, into submission, to relent. Why else would you go easy on them, unless you were terrorized?

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:52 am You don’t. For many of the reasons explained here. Impeachment, non-partisan, justice.

Tough to argue with this piece, but let’s see if we can poke some holes in the author’s ideas...

That is why it’s so, so important that justice be done. Fully. The way it should be. They weren’t rioters, they were fascists, and that wasn’t an insurrection, that was a coup. And it should be punished and treated as such. For the three reasons I’ve outlined above. Let me repeat them and simplify them.

One: you can’t compromise with fascists because they are totalitarians to begin with. They only believe in a violent, hateful, ignorant, binary worldview, and so any compromise is a lie, a trick, a strategy, doomed to fail.

Two. You shouldn’t compromise with fascists and terrorists because it creates a norm with a very special name all its own: appeasement. And there is no road to ruin swifter and surer than appeasement — just ask history, or America 2016–2020, which appeased its way, one weary, surrendering step at a time, from rhetorical hate and scapegoating to concentration camps to kids in cages to Gestapos beating moms in the streets, all the way to a violent coup at the Capitol. That’s not some kind of coincidence — it’s stark proof of an old, old truth. The only way appeasement ever ends is with the fascists and terrorists winning.

Three. You give terrorists no mercy because when you do, they have succeeded at terrorising. They have demonstrated that they can get away with it, and that’s scary: it has chilling effects on society, it emboldens them, it keeps their movements alive, it lets them laugh at the wrist-slap, which is exactly what scares the sane and thoughtful person who opposes them.

When you give terrorists mercy and quarter, they have succeeded in their mission, which was to terrorize. They have scared you into treating them lightly, into submission, to relent. Why else would you go easy on them, unless you were terrorized?

https://eand.co/america-needs-to-break- ... 15b4b75a3f

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:08 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:52 am You don’t. For many of the reasons explained here. Impeachment, non-partisan, justice.

Tough to argue with this piece, but let’s see if we can poke some holes in the author’s ideas...



https://eand.co/america-needs-to-break- ... 15b4b75a3f

Switch Fascists to Marxists (or anarchists) and it is just as accurate. Let's be consistent in dealing with thugs who want to shove their ideology down our throats.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:52 am You don’t. For many of the reasons explained here. Impeachment, non-partisan, justice.

Tough to argue with this piece, but let’s see if we can poke some holes in the author’s ideas...

That is why it’s so, so important that justice be done. Fully. The way it should be. They weren’t rioters, they were fascists, and that wasn’t an insurrection, that was a coup. And it should be punished and treated as such. For the three reasons I’ve outlined above. Let me repeat them and simplify them.

One: you can’t compromise with fascists because they are totalitarians to begin with. They only believe in a violent, hateful, ignorant, binary worldview, and so any compromise is a lie, a trick, a strategy, doomed to fail.

Two. You shouldn’t compromise with fascists and terrorists because it creates a norm with a very special name all its own: appeasement. And there is no road to ruin swifter and surer than appeasement — just ask history, or America 2016–2020, which appeased its way, one weary, surrendering step at a time, from rhetorical hate and scapegoating to concentration camps to kids in cages to Gestapos beating moms in the streets, all the way to a violent coup at the Capitol. That’s not some kind of coincidence — it’s stark proof of an old, old truth. The only way appeasement ever ends is with the fascists and terrorists winning.

Three. You give terrorists no mercy because when you do, they have succeeded at terrorising. They have demonstrated that they can get away with it, and that’s scary: it has chilling effects on society, it emboldens them, it keeps their movements alive, it lets them laugh at the wrist-slap, which is exactly what scares the sane and thoughtful person who opposes them.

When you give terrorists mercy and quarter, they have succeeded in their mission, which was to terrorize. They have scared you into treating them lightly, into submission, to relent. Why else would you go easy on them, unless you were terrorized?

https://eand.co/america-needs-to-break- ... 15b4b75a3f

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:21 am Made it to the 2nd sentence and stopped reading when the author compared it to Kristallnacht. Godwin's Law applies.

SDHornet wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:07 pm

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:21 am Made it to the 2nd sentence and stopped reading when the author compared it to Kristallnacht. Godwin's Law applies.

The Kristallnacht comparison is utterly ridiculous. Anyone pedaling that narrative wrt the Capitol Riot is a fucking retard.

SDHornet wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:07 pm

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:21 am Made it to the 2nd sentence and stopped reading when the author compared it to Kristallnacht. Godwin's Law applies.

The Kristallnacht comparison is utterly ridiculous. Anyone pedaling that narrative wrt the Capitol Riot is a fucking retard.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:28 pm

SDHornet wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:07 pm

The Kristallnacht comparison is utterly ridiculous. Anyone pedaling that narrative wrt the Capitol Riot is a fucking retard.

Looks like was good that I didn't bother reading another garbage piece by another leftist retard with a Trump is Hitler, his supporters are fascists comparison.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:10 pm

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:28 pm
Looks like was good that I didn't bother reading another garbage piece by another leftist retard with a Trump is Hitler, his supporters are fascists comparison.

Wait...so a Republican former governor is a leftist retard? I mean it’s not the main feature of this excellent and thought provoking article but still...

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:10 pm

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:28 pm
Looks like was good that I didn't bother reading another garbage piece by another leftist retard with a Trump is Hitler, his supporters are fascists comparison.

Wait...so a Republican former governor is a leftist retard? I mean it’s not the main feature of this excellent and thought provoking article but still...

HI54UNI wrote:Made it to the 2nd sentence and stopped reading when the author compared it to Kristallnacht. Godwin's Law applies.

kalm wrote:

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:28 pm Looks like was good that I didn't bother reading another garbage piece by another leftist retard with a Trump is Hitler, his supporters are fascists comparison.

Wait...so a Republican former governor is a leftist retard? I mean it’s not the main feature of this excellent and thought provoking article but still...

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:32 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:10 pm

Wait...so a Republican former governor is a leftist retard? I mean it’s not the main feature of this excellent and thought provoking article but still...

Well I see who the author is now. A leftist? Maybe not. But a retard? Absolutely. Anyone who would make that comparison is.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:43 am

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:52 am You don’t. For many of the reasons explained here. Impeachment, non-partisan, justice.

Tough to argue with this piece, but let’s see if we can poke some holes in the author’s ideas...



https://eand.co/america-needs-to-break- ... 15b4b75a3f

They weren’t fascists, and it wasn’t a coup. Red Herring argument from the very beginning.

They were no more “fascists” than when AOC organized and participated in a sit-in of Pelosi’s senate office for 10 days. No more “fascist” than when BLM burned down Fed buildings in DC and Portland. Can’t have one without the other. They (most) were literally INVITED in. USHERED in by DC Capitol cops. So they were either complicit or had zero communication regarding what their strategy was.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:37 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:43 am

They weren’t fascists, and it wasn’t a coup. Red Herring argument from the very beginning.

They were no more “fascists” than when AOC organized and participated in a sit-in of Pelosi’s senate office for 10 days. No more “fascist” than when BLM burned down Fed buildings in DC and Portland. Can’t have one without the other. They (most) were literally INVITED in. USHERED in by DC Capitol cops. So they were either complicit or had zero communication regarding what their strategy was.

From the article:

"Why is that? Because their worldview is binary. Think back to Nietzsche, the intellectual godfather of fascism. His worldview was binary, too. You were were either a master or a slave, were strong or weak, an ubermensch or an underman, an overman or an underman. There was no gray area — which is what democracy and humanity are all about, finding the shades and nuances and differences, and appreciating their subtlety and hue and beauty.

This binary worldview is what fascists since that day have carried forward. Whether they know it or not is another question, but it’s there in Trumpism, and it’s easy to see. Either you’re a “real” American or you’re not, either you’re “legal” or you’re not, either you’re fetishistically devoted to Papa Trump, or you’re an “enemy of the people.” They either adore or hate. They have no capacity — none — to think, reason, contemplate, reflect. To say, “though you are different from me, I appreciate you all the more for just that reason.”
That is what makes a fascist.

Or one of the key things at any rate. The political message of all this violence is therefore to say: It is our way, or no way. It is us, or you. If you’re not one of us, you’re not really a human being at all — you are on the side of the subhumans, a “race traitor” or worse. Fascists want a society cleaved in two — a fanatical, hateful place, made of the weak and strong, the human and the subhuman, the pure and the impure, and everything in politics, institutions, agencies, associations, are to be devoted to that end."

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:04 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:37 pm

From the article:

"Why is that? Because their worldview is binary. Think back to Nietzsche, the intellectual godfather of fascism. His worldview was binary, too. You were were either a master or a slave, were strong or weak, an ubermensch or an underman, an overman or an underman. There was no gray area — which is what democracy and humanity are all about, finding the shades and nuances and differences, and appreciating their subtlety and hue and beauty.

This binary worldview is what fascists since that day have carried forward. Whether they know it or not is another question, but it’s there in Trumpism, and it’s easy to see. Either you’re a “real” American or you’re not, either you’re “legal” or you’re not, either you’re fetishistically devoted to Papa Trump, or you’re an “enemy of the people.” They either adore or hate. They have no capacity — none — to think, reason, contemplate, reflect. To say, “though you are different from me, I appreciate you all the more for just that reason.”
That is what makes a fascist.

Or one of the key things at any rate. The political message of all this violence is therefore to say: It is our way, or no way. It is us, or you. If you’re not one of us, you’re not really a human being at all — you are on the side of the subhumans, a “race traitor” or worse. Fascists want a society cleaved in two — a fanatical, hateful place, made of the weak and strong, the human and the subhuman, the pure and the impure, and everything in politics, institutions, agencies, associations, are to be devoted to that end."

That article perfectly describes ANTIFA as well. Ironic, no?

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:08 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:04 pm

That article perfectly describes ANTIFA as well. Ironic, no?

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:15 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:08 am
Switch Fascists to Marxists (or anarchists) and it is just as accurate. Let's be consistent in dealing with thugs who want to shove their ideology down our throats.

Agreed. Authoritarianism is bad from both left and right.

Let’s not pretend that it’s a bigger threat from one side of US politics while it’s happening in real time.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:08 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:04 pm That article perfectly describes ANTIFA as well. Ironic, no?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:19 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:15 am

Agreed. Authoritarianism is bad from both left and right.

Let’s not pretend that it’s a bigger threat from one side of US politics while it’s happening in real time.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:08 pm

Isn't AnTiFa essentially an anarchist group?

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:51 pm

SDHornet wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:07 pm

The Kristallnacht comparison is utterly ridiculous. Anyone pedaling that narrative wrt the Capitol Riot is a fucking retard.

Yeah! How dare Arnold!

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:19 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:15 am

Agreed. Authoritarianism is bad from both left and right.

Let’s not pretend that it’s a bigger threat from one side of US politics while it’s happening in real time.

kalm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:08 pm

Isn't AnTiFa essentially an anarchist group?

houndawg wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:05 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:19 pm



Isn't AnTiFa essentially an anarchist group?

like jumbo shrimp?



And WTF, people? Back in the day no thread about bargaining with facism would have been complete without at least one reference to Neville Chamberlain.....this place has been backsliding for quite a while now...