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At least to this point. That's my prediction on how historians will rank Donald Trump both in the near future and 100 years from now through the lens of elapsed time.

If there was any doubt about that it was erased by what happened over the past few months. History will report that there was not an election fraud or irregularity problem and that Trump lied about it. That or he was delusional. It will report that he started saying the only way he could lose was fraud when that was a ridiculous statement as he was clearly the underdog. Then he spent a couple of months continuing to lie (or suffer delusion) and corruptly trying to influence Republican State officials to throw the race to him. He seriously tried to overturn the Will of the People. In the process he completely poisoned the country while the country was in the midst of serious problems (like a pandemic) and needed to be able to pull together.

History will show that he completely botched the response to the pandemic. He started off by putting all his eggs into a basket (travel restriction) that previous assessment indicated would not work. Then he spent the rest of his term spouting nonsense that undermined efforts by public health professionals. He kept saying things that gave oxygen to misinformation flying around the internet. History will estimate that hundreds of thousands of American lives that did not have to be lost to COVID-19 were lost to COVID-19 because of incompetence and his ignorant as well as dishonest behavior.

History will not say he had a big impact on the economy. It'll show that he took over during the 7th year of a 10 1/2 year expansion and things continued to go pretty much as they did before he took office. History will show that job creation slowed slightly after he took office. History will show that the Dow increased in value by 148% during Obama's 8 years then by 57% percent during Trump's 4 years. Again: No indication of any change in the basic state of things. Of course, history will also probably report that he tried to lie and say that he "built" the greatest economy in history. He didn't build it and it wasn't the greatest economy in history either.

History will report that he destroyed our credibility on the world stage. It'll report that Iran got much closer to having a nuclear weapon due to him. It'll report that he repeatedly stabbed various United States allies in the back. It'll report that, despite all of his spin, North Korea pretty much did what it wanted.

It'll report that he way oversold the impact of his tax cut on the economy, claiming we'd get 4 to 6 percent economic growth. It'll report that he said it would not increase the deficit but it did.

I could probably think of more but that's enough for now. Basically a flim flam man who tried to claim credit for and exaggerate everything positive while blaming other people and trying to downplay everything negative going on. Then when he got hit by crisis he totally imploded. Finally, he completely disregarded the good of the nation with the two month nonsensical voter fraud claim when he clearly lost the election. Created a situation where 40% of the country or so is now totally divorced from reality and is in deep resentment.

That's what history will report.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:29 pm At least to this point. That's my prediction on how historians will rank Donald Trump both in the near future and 100 years from now through the lens of elapsed time...

...That's what history will report.

Worst up to this point? Yes. In 100 years? I hope so but...

Biden isn't off to the best start, but he gets to follow a bad President.

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:15 pm Biden isn't off to the best start, but he gets to follow a bad President.

Obviously, he's taking over under far more difficult circumstances than Trump took over under.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:16 pm

And nice job going with a "people of walmart pics" theme instead of the usual hot chics in bikini's. Well played.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:18 pm

That's basically the equivalent of a JSO post in photographic form.

He’s replaced Reagan as the worst in at least my lifetime.

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:34 am He’s replaced Reagan as the worst in at least my lifetime.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:44 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:34 am He’s replaced Reagan as the worst in at least my lifetime.

Not a troll at all. Negotiated with terrorists, armed Iran, immigrant amnesty, raised taxes 11 times on the middle class, supply side economic policies still embraced to this day...we could go on and on.

Fuck it...you’re right. Reagan was probably worse.

But he was one hell of a pitchman. I’ll give him that.

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:08 am

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:44 am

Not a troll at all. Negotiated with terrorists, armed Iran, immigrant amnesty, raised taxes 11 times on the middle class, supply side economic policies still embraced to this day...we could go on and on.

Fuck it...you’re right. Reagan was probably worse.

But he was one hell of a pitchman. I’ll give him that.

Reagan cut double digit inflation by 2/3, cut interest rates in half, cut unemployment (you know, Carter's stagflation), record job growth, cut taxes across the board (including overall on the middle class), GDP skyrocketed, SDI, won the cold war.

Greatest 8 year president ever!

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:52 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:08 am

Not a troll at all. Negotiated with terrorists, armed Iran, immigrant amnesty, raised taxes 11 times on the middle class, supply side economic policies still embraced to this day...we could go on and on.

Fuck it...you’re right. Reagan was probably worse.

But he was one hell of a pitchman. I’ll give him that.

Reagan cut double digit inflation by 2/3, cut interest rates in half, cut unemployment (you know, Carter's stagflation), record job growth, cut taxes across the board (including overall on the middle class), GDP skyrocketed, SDI, won the cold war.

Greatest 8 year president ever!

Why were interest rates so high to begin with?

And no mention of the debt?

Give me a credit card and I can create low unemployment and short term growth as well.

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:52 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:08 am

Not a troll at all. Negotiated with terrorists, armed Iran, immigrant amnesty, raised taxes 11 times on the middle class, supply side economic policies still embraced to this day...we could go on and on.

Fuck it...you’re right. Reagan was probably worse.

But he was one hell of a pitchman. I’ll give him that.

Reagan cut double digit inflation by 2/3, cut interest rates in half, cut unemployment (you know, Carter's stagflation), record job growth, cut taxes across the board (including overall on the middle class), GDP skyrocketed, SDI, won the cold war.

Greatest 8 year president ever!

You weren't even alive then.


Jabbering half-wit cunt.

houndawg wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:33 am

BDKJMU wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:52 am
Reagan cut double digit inflation by 2/3, cut interest rates in half, cut unemployment (you know, Carter's stagflation), record job growth, cut taxes across the board (including overall on the middle class), GDP skyrocketed, SDI, won the cold war.

Greatest 8 year president ever!

You weren't even alive then.

Jabbering half-wit cunt.

And you were stoned to the bejesus the entire 8 years. You don't remember shit about Reagan either.

Here's an article on the subject:

https://indianexpress.com/article/world ... k-7159534/

It's originally from the New York Times. There's a reference to a Siena College ranking of Presidents.

The Siena College Research Institute regularly compiles ranked lists of all the American presidents, based on the composite views of scholars.

In the most recent Siena survey, a year into the Trump administration, Trump was rated 42nd out of 44 presidents, less terrible than only Buchanan and Johnson. In almost every category — integrity, intelligence and relationship with Congress, for instance — he was rated at or nearly rock bottom. (The exceptions: He was 25th in “willing to take risks” and 10th in “luck.”)

Will he move down the list? I think the odds are good. Lots of interesting quotes from historians in the article. I'll just do a couple:

Sean Wilentz, a professor of American history at Princeton University, said that Trump was the worst president in history, hands down.

“He’s in a whole other category in terms of the damage he’s done to the Republic,” said Wilentz, citing the radicalization of the Republican Party, the inept response to the pandemic and what he called “the brazen, almost psychedelic mendacity of the man.”

Presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, whose most recent book, “Leadership: In Turbulent Times,” looks at how four presidents confronted tough moments in history, said that it normally takes a generation to evaluate a leader. But to the extent that a president’s legacy is determined by his ability to rise to a crisis, Trump will be remembered for his failures: how poorly he handled COVID-19 and how disgracefully he behaved after the election.

Pretty much consistent with my thought process. I think he was already a disaster. But he really handled the COVID-19 badly (as is becoming more and more evident now that he's out of office and people can speak freely) THEN he tore the country apart with that nonsensical voter fraud thing after an election he lost that wasn't even really all that close by the standards of today.

JohnStOnge wrote:Here's an article on the subject:

https://indianexpress.com/article/world ... k-7159534/

It's originally from the New York Times. There's a reference to a Siena College ranking of Presidents.

The Siena College Research Institute regularly compiles ranked lists of all the American presidents, based on the composite views of scholars.

In the most recent Siena survey, a year into the Trump administration, Trump was rated 42nd out of 44 presidents, less terrible than only Buchanan and Johnson. In almost every category — integrity, intelligence and relationship with Congress, for instance — he was rated at or nearly rock bottom. (The exceptions: He was 25th in “willing to take risks” and 10th in “luck.”)

Will he move down the list? I think the odds are good. Lots of interesting quotes from historians in the article. I'll just do a couple:

Sean Wilentz, a professor of American history at Princeton University, said that Trump was the worst president in history, hands down.

“He’s in a whole other category in terms of the damage he’s done to the Republic,” said Wilentz, citing the radicalization of the Republican Party, the inept response to the pandemic and what he called “the brazen, almost psychedelic mendacity of the man.”

Presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, whose most recent book, “Leadership: In Turbulent Times,” looks at how four presidents confronted tough moments in history, said that it normally takes a generation to evaluate a leader. But to the extent that a president’s legacy is determined by his ability to rise to a crisis, Trump will be remembered for his failures: how poorly he handled COVID-19 and how disgracefully he behaved after the election.

Pretty much consistent with my thought process. I think he was already a disaster. But he really handled the COVID-19 badly (as is becoming more and more evident now that he's out of office and people can speak freely) THEN he tore the country apart with that nonsensical voter fraud thing after an election he lost that wasn't even really all that close by the standards of today.

When you link articles instead of making the argument yourself, you’ve surrendered the logical hight ground


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:38 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:Here's an article on the subject:

https://indianexpress.com/article/world ... k-7159534/

It's originally from the New York Times. There's a reference to a Siena College ranking of Presidents.





Will he move down the list? I think the odds are good. Lots of interesting quotes from historians in the article. I'll just do a couple:



Pretty much consistent with my thought process. I think he was already a disaster. But he really handled the COVID-19 badly (as is becoming more and more evident now that he's out of office and people can speak freely) THEN he tore the country apart with that nonsensical voter fraud thing after an election he lost that wasn't even really all that close by the standards of today.

When you link articles instead of making the argument yourself, you’ve surrendered the logical hight ground


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He surrendered that a looooong time ago.

And welcome, who’s the new guy?

I've never taken academia's presidential rankings seriously, and it has nothing to to do with academia's liberal slant.

There's an obvious bias in rankings to presidents who took office amidst a crisis and had it resolved before they left office even if that crisis resolved in spite of them and not because of them.

Example: FDR and Lincoln are usually considered among the best ever. Does anyone really believe that legitimately the most astute and capable leaders just happened to come about in the 2 worst crises in the country's national crises? It defies probability. You'd have to be really dumb enough to think we got the absolute best possible outcomes after the secession and the 1929 crash and that sticking absolutely anyone else in those presidencies would've resulted in a worse version of history.

As for Trump, well I think time will tell. IMO the GOP needs to move away from being a party of big business (who are becoming increasingly "woke" and hostile to cultural conservatism) and become more nationalist. If Trump ultimately starts the party on that trajectory his presidency will have been a success IMO.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:44 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:34 am He’s replaced Reagan as the worst in at least my lifetime.

/thread

Pwns wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:55 am I've never taken academia's presidential rankings seriously, and it has nothing to to do with academia's liberal slant.

There's an obvious bias in rankings to presidents who took office amidst a crisis and had it resolved before they left office even if that crisis resolved in spite of them and not because of them.

Example: FDR and Lincoln are usually considered among the best ever. Does anyone really believe that legitimately the most astute and capable leaders just happened to come about in the 2 worst crises in the country's national crises? It defies probability. You'd have to be really dumb enough to think we got the absolute best possible outcomes after the secession and the 1929 crash and that sticking absolutely anyone else in those presidencies would've resulted in a worse version of history.

As for Trump, well I think time will tell. IMO the GOP needs to move away from being a party of big business (who are becoming increasingly "woke" and hostile to cultural conservatism) and become more nationalist. If Trump ultimately starts the party on that trajectory his presidency will have been a success IMO.

Nationalist AND Poplulist