Why is that OUR responsibility? We have to fix EVERY country? We can barely deal with our own.
And how about just starting with pulling in the fucking welcome mat that the Dems put out every time they're in office?
Why is that OUR responsibility? We have to fix EVERY country? We can barely deal with our own.
I don't think the wall was his biggest contribution to immigration, rather his ability to cajole or whatever to Mexico to get them to police their own southern border and stop allowing migrants to just pass through Mexico to the US. That was significant and certainly cut down on the number of folks even trying to get to the US by a large factor.
Because we’ve involved ourselves in those countries forever. Part of immigration is our own chickens coming home to roost.
But there's a lot of BS in that argument as well. The vast majority of these countries aren't in the situation they are in primarily, or even mostly, because of US involvement or influence. You give us way too much credit on our ability to forge the destiny of other countries and you minimize the ability of these other countries to forge their own path. Heck, considering most of these countries are brown in terms of population I'd say you're getting precariously close to a racist position, believing that only white-led America can be responsible, for good or bad, for the status of these countries. Why do you hate brown people?
So your answer to fixing involvement in those countries is MORE involvement?
I didn't say we have to fix every country - lord knows we can't fix our own. But if you think just throwing up a wall is going to solve a problem then you're just being naïve.
GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 7:17 amI don't think the wall was his biggest contribution to immigration, rather his ability to cajole or whatever to Mexico to get them to police their own southern border and stop allowing migrants to just pass through Mexico to the US. That was significant and certainly cut down on the number of folks even trying to get to the US by a large factor.
It's going to be a tough issue. I mean, let's be honest, getting to live in the US will always be a better option, by any measure, than living in their current home countries, so I'm not sure how you ever get to a point where they don't want to leave their home countries.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/politics ... index.htmlThe Biden administration has secured agreements for Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala to tighten their borders and stem the flow of migration, Special Assistant to the President for Immigration for the Domestic Policy Council Tyler Moran told MSNBC on Monday.
"We've secured agreements for them to put more troops on their own border. Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala have all agreed to do this. That not only is going to prevent the traffickers, and the smugglers, and cartels that take advantage of the kids on their way here, but also to protect those children," Moran said.
GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 7:34 amBut there's a lot of BS in that argument as well. The vast majority of these countries aren't in the situation they are in primarily, or even mostly, because of US involvement or influence. You give us way too much credit on our ability to forge the destiny of other countries and you minimize the ability of these other countries to forge their own path. Heck, considering most of these countries are brown in terms of population I'd say you're getting precariously close to a racist position, believing that only white-led America can be responsible, for good or bad, for the status of these countries. Why do you hate brown people?
Yeah... this!Ibanez wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 7:57 amGannonFan wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 7:34 am
But there's a lot of BS in that argument as well. The vast majority of these countries aren't in the situation they are in primarily, or even mostly, because of US involvement or influence. You give us way too much credit on our ability to forge the destiny of other countries and you minimize the ability of these other countries to forge their own path. Heck, considering most of these countries are brown in terms of population I'd say you're getting precariously close to a racist position, believing that only white-led America can be responsible, for good or bad, for the status of these countries. Why do you hate brown people?
I was laughing at his " Why do you hate Brown people?" comment.
Depends on the involvement but like so many issues in life, the first place to look for causes and solutions is in the mirror.
I figured you were. So was I.
Not just a wall. I'd put TWO walls, 50' apart, and landmine the fuck out of the middle. Then I'd put troops every 100 yards to take out any motherfucker who made it through. Then I'd fix the immigration system so it didn't take 15 fucking years to get citizenship.
Are we the only country who has a mirror to look into? Do they not have mirrors in other countries in the Western Hemisphere? Is that our fault too, did we deny them mirrors? Why does a country like Costa Rica succeed in the same general area of the world whereas a place like Honduras does not? Did the US get it right in Costa Rica but blew it in Honduras? Do the Ticos and the Hondurans have something to do with the state of their country or is it only decided by the gringos from America?
The GOP loves life. They're pro-life. No way they'd do something like that to innocent people.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:53 amNot just a wall. I'd put TWO walls, 50' apart, and landmine the fuck out of the middle. Then I'd put troops every 100 yards to take out any motherfucker who made it through. Then I'd fix the immigration system so it didn't take 15 fucking years to get citizenship.
Why do we guard ports of entry like they're world heritage sites and leave the rest of the border wide open?
So you were laughing with Ibanez at Ganny mocking you? It's a good thing to be able to laugh at yourself.
Yep. The wall was just him throwing his base some red meat. It helps in some areas but a wall isn't the end all be all for reducing/stopping illegals from coming over.GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 7:17 amI don't think the wall was his biggest contribution to immigration, rather his ability to cajole or whatever to Mexico to get them to police their own southern border and stop allowing migrants to just pass through Mexico to the US. That was significant and certainly cut down on the number of folks even trying to get to the US by a large factor.
It's going to be a tough issue. I mean, let's be honest, getting to live in the US will always be a better option, by any measure, than living in their current home countries, so I'm not sure how you ever get to a point where they don't want to leave their home countries.
Inquiring minds want to know....GannonFan wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:55 amAre we the only country who has a mirror to look into? Do they not have mirrors in other countries in the Western Hemisphere? Is that our fault too, did we deny them mirrors? Why does a country like Costa Rica succeed in the same general area of the world whereas a place like Honduras does not? Did the US get it right in Costa Rica but blew it in Honduras? Do the Ticos and the Hondurans have something to do with the state of their country or is it only decided by the gringos from America?
Yes. Ibanez clearly saw the trolling attempt by Ganny. Ibanez is smart like that.
I smart! I smart!
Methinks you're dodging things here. Sure, I was poking fun at you, but at the end of it you still haven't answered the very real question of how come it's our problem to fix, in some cases, failed nation states? No one's going to argue that we didn't have some impact due to our involvement in these counties going back centuries, and even worse, in some cases we were purposely nefarious in our involvements. However, I'd argue that the vast majority of the issues with these countries lies primarily with the folks living in those countries. Like I said, there are examples of places where things work (Costa Rica) and places where things don't work (Honduras), and because of things done differently in the first country versus the second one, one is successful and the other is seeing wide swaths of their population flee to the hope of a Democratic Party in power to let them into the US. We certainly have some level of blame in this - heck, I'd argue there's considerable blame for the Spanish Empire (RIP) for how some of these countries are today, but at the end of the day the country is what its citizens make of it. The answer just can't be "well, things are better in the US, so we should all just go there".