The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:08 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:03 am

they all inherited a problem. Trump was the first one to legitimately try and fix it. And he was summarily ignored, and STILL made a shitload of progress....progress that's been pissed away in the first 100 days of Biden's "presidency".
We'll have to disagree. Building a wall doesn't fix the problem. It's a bandaid. What did he do to make it so those immigrants didn't WANT to leave their home countries?
Why is that OUR responsibility? We have to fix EVERY country? We can barely deal with our own.

And how about just starting with pulling in the fucking welcome mat that the Dems put out every time they're in office?
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

Immigration and the border crisis are just like abortion, guns, racism, poverty, drugs, LGBTQ rights, etc., etc. Politicians don't WANT to solve these things. They are the red meat for mouth breathers who live, eat and breathe ONE issue. So in that sense I agree, each president "inherits" the problem from his predecessor because these are "'problems" most have zero desire or intention of actually solving.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by GannonFan »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:08 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:03 am

they all inherited a problem. Trump was the first one to legitimately try and fix it. And he was summarily ignored, and STILL made a shitload of progress....progress that's been pissed away in the first 100 days of Biden's "presidency".
We'll have to disagree. Building a wall doesn't fix the problem. It's a bandaid. What did he do to make it so those immigrants didn't WANT to leave their home countries?
I don't think the wall was his biggest contribution to immigration, rather his ability to cajole or whatever to Mexico to get them to police their own southern border and stop allowing migrants to just pass through Mexico to the US. That was significant and certainly cut down on the number of folks even trying to get to the US by a large factor.

It's going to be a tough issue. I mean, let's be honest, getting to live in the US will always be a better option, by any measure, than living in their current home countries, so I'm not sure how you ever get to a point where they don't want to leave their home countries.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:14 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:08 am

We'll have to disagree. Building a wall doesn't fix the problem. It's a bandaid. What did he do to make it so those immigrants didn't WANT to leave their home countries?
Why is that OUR responsibility? We have to fix EVERY country? We can barely deal with our own.

And how about just starting with pulling in the fucking welcome mat that the Dems put out every time they're in office?
Because we’ve involved ourselves in those countries forever. Part of immigration is our own chickens coming home to roost.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:22 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:14 am

Why is that OUR responsibility? We have to fix EVERY country? We can barely deal with our own.

And how about just starting with pulling in the fucking welcome mat that the Dems put out every time they're in office?
Because we’ve involved ourselves in those countries forever. Part of immigration is our own chickens coming home to roost.
But there's a lot of BS in that argument as well. The vast majority of these countries aren't in the situation they are in primarily, or even mostly, because of US involvement or influence. You give us way too much credit on our ability to forge the destiny of other countries and you minimize the ability of these other countries to forge their own path. Heck, considering most of these countries are brown in terms of population I'd say you're getting precariously close to a racist position, believing that only white-led America can be responsible, for good or bad, for the status of these countries. Why do you hate brown people?
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:22 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:14 am

Why is that OUR responsibility? We have to fix EVERY country? We can barely deal with our own.

And how about just starting with pulling in the fucking welcome mat that the Dems put out every time they're in office?
Because we’ve involved ourselves in those countries forever. Part of immigration is our own chickens coming home to roost.
So your answer to fixing involvement in those countries is MORE involvement?
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:14 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:08 am

We'll have to disagree. Building a wall doesn't fix the problem. It's a bandaid. What did he do to make it so those immigrants didn't WANT to leave their home countries?
Why is that OUR responsibility? We have to fix EVERY country? We can barely deal with our own.

And how about just starting with pulling in the fucking welcome mat that the Dems put out every time they're in office?
I didn't say we have to fix every country - lord knows we can't fix our own. But if you think just throwing up a wall is going to solve a problem then you're just being naïve.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Ibanez »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:17 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:08 am

We'll have to disagree. Building a wall doesn't fix the problem. It's a bandaid. What did he do to make it so those immigrants didn't WANT to leave their home countries?
I don't think the wall was his biggest contribution to immigration, rather his ability to cajole or whatever to Mexico to get them to police their own southern border and stop allowing migrants to just pass through Mexico to the US. That was significant and certainly cut down on the number of folks even trying to get to the US by a large factor.

It's going to be a tough issue. I mean, let's be honest, getting to live in the US will always be a better option, by any measure, than living in their current home countries, so I'm not sure how you ever get to a point where they don't want to leave their home countries.
The Biden administration has secured agreements for Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala to tighten their borders and stem the flow of migration, Special Assistant to the President for Immigration for the Domestic Policy Council Tyler Moran told MSNBC on Monday.

"We've secured agreements for them to put more troops on their own border. Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala have all agreed to do this. That not only is going to prevent the traffickers, and the smugglers, and cartels that take advantage of the kids on their way here, but also to protect those children," Moran said.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/politics ... index.html


It's comical to see the GOP bitch and moan about this now ...as if there wasn't an issue before 1/20/21.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Ibanez »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:34 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:22 am

Because we’ve involved ourselves in those countries forever. Part of immigration is our own chickens coming home to roost.
But there's a lot of BS in that argument as well. The vast majority of these countries aren't in the situation they are in primarily, or even mostly, because of US involvement or influence. You give us way too much credit on our ability to forge the destiny of other countries and you minimize the ability of these other countries to forge their own path. Heck, considering most of these countries are brown in terms of population I'd say you're getting precariously close to a racist position, believing that only white-led America can be responsible, for good or bad, for the status of these countries. Why do you hate brown people?
:rofl: :rofl:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:57 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:34 am

But there's a lot of BS in that argument as well. The vast majority of these countries aren't in the situation they are in primarily, or even mostly, because of US involvement or influence. You give us way too much credit on our ability to forge the destiny of other countries and you minimize the ability of these other countries to forge their own path. Heck, considering most of these countries are brown in terms of population I'd say you're getting precariously close to a racist position, believing that only white-led America can be responsible, for good or bad, for the status of these countries. Why do you hate brown people?
:rofl: :rofl:
Yeah... this!

:lol:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Ibanez »

kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:15 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:57 am
:rofl: :rofl:
Yeah... this!

:lol:
I was laughing at his " Why do you hate Brown people?" comment. :coffee:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:38 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:22 am

Because we’ve involved ourselves in those countries forever. Part of immigration is our own chickens coming home to roost.
So your answer to fixing involvement in those countries is MORE involvement?
Depends on the involvement but like so many issues in life, the first place to look for causes and solutions is in the mirror.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:19 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:15 am

Yeah... this!

:lol:
I was laughing at his " Why do you hate Brown people?" comment. :coffee:
I figured you were. So was I. :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:20 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:19 am

I was laughing at his " Why do you hate Brown people?" comment. :coffee:
I figured you were. So was I. :coffee: :coffee:
:suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:54 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:14 am

Why is that OUR responsibility? We have to fix EVERY country? We can barely deal with our own.

And how about just starting with pulling in the fucking welcome mat that the Dems put out every time they're in office?
I didn't say we have to fix every country - lord knows we can't fix our own. But if you think just throwing up a wall is going to solve a problem then you're just being naïve.
Not just a wall. I'd put TWO walls, 50' apart, and landmine the fuck out of the middle. Then I'd put troops every 100 yards to take out any motherfucker who made it through. Then I'd fix the immigration system so it didn't take 15 fucking years to get citizenship.

Why do we guard ports of entry like they're world heritage sites and leave the rest of the border wide open?
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:19 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:38 am

So your answer to fixing involvement in those countries is MORE involvement?
Depends on the involvement but like so many issues in life, the first place to look for causes and solutions is in the mirror.
Are we the only country who has a mirror to look into? Do they not have mirrors in other countries in the Western Hemisphere? Is that our fault too, did we deny them mirrors? Why does a country like Costa Rica succeed in the same general area of the world whereas a place like Honduras does not? Did the US get it right in Costa Rica but blew it in Honduras? Do the Ticos and the Hondurans have something to do with the state of their country or is it only decided by the gringos from America?
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:53 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:54 am

I didn't say we have to fix every country - lord knows we can't fix our own. But if you think just throwing up a wall is going to solve a problem then you're just being naïve.
Not just a wall. I'd put TWO walls, 50' apart, and landmine the fuck out of the middle. Then I'd put troops every 100 yards to take out any motherfucker who made it through. Then I'd fix the immigration system so it didn't take 15 fucking years to get citizenship.

Why do we guard ports of entry like they're world heritage sites and leave the rest of the border wide open?
The GOP loves life. They're pro-life. No way they'd do something like that to innocent people.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:20 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:19 am
I was laughing at his " Why do you hate Brown people?" comment. :coffee:
I figured you were. So was I. :coffee: :coffee:
So you were laughing with Ibanez at Ganny mocking you? It's a good thing to be able to laugh at yourself.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by SDHornet »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:17 am
Ibanez wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:08 am

We'll have to disagree. Building a wall doesn't fix the problem. It's a bandaid. What did he do to make it so those immigrants didn't WANT to leave their home countries?
I don't think the wall was his biggest contribution to immigration, rather his ability to cajole or whatever to Mexico to get them to police their own southern border and stop allowing migrants to just pass through Mexico to the US. That was significant and certainly cut down on the number of folks even trying to get to the US by a large factor.

It's going to be a tough issue. I mean, let's be honest, getting to live in the US will always be a better option, by any measure, than living in their current home countries, so I'm not sure how you ever get to a point where they don't want to leave their home countries.
Yep. The wall was just him throwing his base some red meat. It helps in some areas but a wall isn't the end all be all for reducing/stopping illegals from coming over.

As mentioned, Trump's bigger wins on illegal immigration were making these other countries step up to the plate for a change. Then there is always the increased wages and record low unemployment among minorities which, IMO, were the biggest wins from his immigration policies.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

GannonFan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:55 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:19 am

Depends on the involvement but like so many issues in life, the first place to look for causes and solutions is in the mirror.
Are we the only country who has a mirror to look into? Do they not have mirrors in other countries in the Western Hemisphere? Is that our fault too, did we deny them mirrors? Why does a country like Costa Rica succeed in the same general area of the world whereas a place like Honduras does not? Did the US get it right in Costa Rica but blew it in Honduras? Do the Ticos and the Hondurans have something to do with the state of their country or is it only decided by the gringos from America?
Inquiring minds want to know....
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Pwns »

I'm at the point now where I'd be okay with more aggressive economic intervention for troubled places in Central America and the ME and think that's preferable to migration. But let's be real, if these migrants voted Republicans then Democrats could be building a wall with a moat on the border. It's not about humanitarianism and never has been.
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:11 am
kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:20 am

I figured you were. So was I. :coffee: :coffee:
So you were laughing with Ibanez at Ganny mocking you? It's a good thing to be able to laugh at yourself.
Yes. Ibanez clearly saw the trolling attempt by Ganny. Ibanez is smart like that.

Why do you think Ibanez is a dumb dumb? Is it because he’s from the South?

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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by Ibanez »

kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 11:58 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:11 am

So you were laughing with Ibanez at Ganny mocking you? It's a good thing to be able to laugh at yourself.
Yes. Ibanez clearly saw the trolling attempt by Ganny. Ibanez is smart like that.

Why do you think Ibanez is a dumb dumb? Is it because he’s from the South?

:ohno:
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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by CID1990 »

The wall was a small piece of the puzzle But it was hardly the most important piece. With lessened migration, the wall would be the last bulwark against the truly hard cases.

The most important pieces were the bilat agreements we made with Mexico, El Sal, Honduras, and Guatemala which compelled them to enforce their own border controls and also first safe 3rd country rules. Ironically, the carrot we used to get them to cooperate with us was with trade and aid (precisely the things that reduce pressure to migrate)

Now, because Trump, the current admin has scrapped ALL of it. That, combined with campaign rhetoric this past fall, is the driver behind the current rush on the border.

Blaming the previous administration for this is a bold faced lie.


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Re: The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 11:58 am
UNI88 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:11 am

So you were laughing with Ibanez at Ganny mocking you? It's a good thing to be able to laugh at yourself.
Yes. Ibanez clearly saw the trolling attempt by Ganny. Ibanez is smart like that.

Why do you think Ibanez is a dumb dumb? Is it because he’s from the South?

:ohno:
Methinks you're dodging things here. Sure, I was poking fun at you, but at the end of it you still haven't answered the very real question of how come it's our problem to fix, in some cases, failed nation states? No one's going to argue that we didn't have some impact due to our involvement in these counties going back centuries, and even worse, in some cases we were purposely nefarious in our involvements. However, I'd argue that the vast majority of the issues with these countries lies primarily with the folks living in those countries. Like I said, there are examples of places where things work (Costa Rica) and places where things don't work (Honduras), and because of things done differently in the first country versus the second one, one is successful and the other is seeing wide swaths of their population flee to the hope of a Democratic Party in power to let them into the US. We certainly have some level of blame in this - heck, I'd argue there's considerable blame for the Spanish Empire (RIP) for how some of these countries are today, but at the end of the day the country is what its citizens make of it. The answer just can't be "well, things are better in the US, so we should all just go there".
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