THIS IS AMERICA

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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by JohnStOnge »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:43 pm
AshevilleApp wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:02 pm

Trying to violently enter the House chamber? Try again dumb ass. Equating the two sets of protests/riots is a fools game.
I think there are definite similarities so comparisons are valid. The fools game is trying to justify your side's because the other side did it first/worse. Violent protesting, rioting and looting are wrong no matter who is doing it and why.
No. This is different. There have been many instances of protests involving some violence in our history. But this was people assaulting the seat of government trying to stop the Congress of the United States from performing a Constitutional function. This was not your run of the mill violent protest. In fact I would not even call it a protest. At least a substantial portion of those people were there to do violence to the elected representatives of our country in order to stop the processing of the results of a free and fair election. It was an attack. There is a picture of a guy running around with zip tie cuffs. What did he plan to do with those? There is video of the crowd chanting "hang Mike Pence." It's WAY worse than something like the Black Lives Matter protests.

The "why" does matter. The Black Lives Matter protests happened because, rightly or wrongly, people believed injustices were being committed against people due to race. What happened this week was by people who were trying to overturn the Will of the People expressed during a Presidential election through violent means. WAY worse. Not a close call.

People who are trying to draw some kind of equivalency between what happened this past week and something like Black Lives Matter protests need to just stop. It doesn't fly.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by BDKJMU »

AshevilleApp wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:02 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:10 am Yeah, there were more people shot and killed by the police at the violent BLM protests in DC that week...oh wait a minute..
Trying to violently enter the House chamber? Try again dumb ass. Equating the two sets of protests/riots is a fools game.
Try again fucktard. The level of violence we saw on Wednesday pales in comparison to literally hundreds of riots we saw throughout the summer, including much destruction of local, state, and federal property & buildings, including literally trying to burn them down with people in them, with a complete opposite reaction from the left.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by UNI88 »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:22 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:43 pm
I think there are definite similarities so comparisons are valid. The fools game is trying to justify your side's because the other side did it first/worse. Violent protesting, rioting and looting are wrong no matter who is doing it and why.
No. This is different. There have been many instances of protests involving some violence in our history. But this was people assaulting the seat of government trying to stop the Congress of the United States from performing a Constitutional function. This was not your run of the mill violent protest. In fact I would not even call it a protest. At least a substantial portion of those people were there to do violence to the elected representatives of our country in order to stop the processing of the results of a free and fair election. It was an attack. There is a picture of a guy running around with zip tie cuffs. What did he plan to do with those? There is video of the crowd chanting "hang Mike Pence." It's WAY worse than something like the Black Lives Matter protests.

The "why" does matter. The Black Lives Matter protests happened because, rightly or wrongly, people believed injustices were being committed against people due to race. What happened this week was by people who were trying to overturn the Will of the People expressed during a Presidential election through violent means. WAY worse. Not a close call.

People who are trying to draw some kind of equivalency between what happened this past week and something like Black Lives Matter protests need to just stop. It doesn't fly.
I live in Portland, you're wrong.

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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by JohnStOnge »

BDKJMU wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:26 pm
AshevilleApp wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:02 pm

Trying to violently enter the House chamber? Try again dumb ass. Equating the two sets of protests/riots is a fools game.
Try again fucktard. The level of violence we saw on Wednesday pales in comparison to literally hundreds of riots we saw throughout the summer, including much destruction of local, state, and federal property & buildings, including literally trying to burn them down with people in them, with a complete opposite reaction from the left.
Give it up. You can't win this argument. The difference between people trying to assault Congress while it is in session in an effort to thwart a the Will of the People and largely random, unguided violence by people in something like the Black Lives Matter thing just isn't comparable. You can say it is as many times as you want and it won't make it so.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by JohnStOnge »

One positive in my mind is that I have no doubt that the FBI will track a whole bunch of these people down. It doesn't matter if it takes years. They will do it. They probably won't get them all. But they will get a whole lot of them and the rest of them are going to spend a long time looking over their shoulders. And I hope all the ones they catch have their lives completely ruined. I hope they lose their careers when they have them. They flipping deserve it.

If you want to live in a country where a dictator controls elections flipping move to Russia, you assholes. Stop trying to impose your nut job will on the rest of us.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by JohnStOnge »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:35 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:22 pm

No. This is different. There have been many instances of protests involving some violence in our history. But this was people assaulting the seat of government trying to stop the Congress of the United States from performing a Constitutional function. This was not your run of the mill violent protest. In fact I would not even call it a protest. At least a substantial portion of those people were there to do violence to the elected representatives of our country in order to stop the processing of the results of a free and fair election. It was an attack. There is a picture of a guy running around with zip tie cuffs. What did he plan to do with those? There is video of the crowd chanting "hang Mike Pence." It's WAY worse than something like the Black Lives Matter protests.

The "why" does matter. The Black Lives Matter protests happened because, rightly or wrongly, people believed injustices were being committed against people due to race. What happened this week was by people who were trying to overturn the Will of the People expressed during a Presidential election through violent means. WAY worse. Not a close call.

People who are trying to draw some kind of equivalency between what happened this past week and something like Black Lives Matter protests need to just stop. It doesn't fly.
I live in Portland, you're wrong.

You're beyond hope due to your irrational bias and complete inability to consider opposing points of view.
No. I am not. There is a huge difference between the "ordinary" protest, even if violent and destructive, and a focused effort to overturn the results of a free and fair election through an attack on the Congress of the United States while it is in session. It's not a close call. What happened this past week at the Capital was way worse than any violent protest we've had in my lifetime. It was not a protest. It was an assault on our Democratic Republic.

It is not measured by how long it lasted or what the level of total destruction was. It is measured by what those people were trying to do. Way more dangerous to our nation than anything that happened in, for example, Portland last year.

I consider opposing points of view. But when they are wrong they are wrong. And anybody that thinks what happened this past week is "like" something like the Black Lives Matter protests is wrong.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by JohnStOnge »

Think about what would have happened if they'd have gotten to the members of Congress and Mike Pence before they could be evacuated. Are you seriously going to tell me that that wouldn't have been a much bigger crisis for our country as a whole than anything that happened with the Black Lives Matter protest? Seriously?

The FBI needs to track as many of those people down as possible and when they find them the Justice Department and the Federal Courts need to throw the book at them. A strong statement needs to be made that the sort of thing they did will not be tolerated. At all.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:43 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:35 pm
I live in Portland, you're wrong.

You're beyond hope due to your irrational bias and complete inability to consider opposing points of view.
No. I am not. There is a huge difference between the "ordinary" protest, even if violent and destructive, and a focused effort to overturn the results of a free and fair election through an attack on the Congress of the United States while it is in session. It's not a close call. What happened this past week at the Capital was way worse than any violent protest we've had in my lifetime. It was not a protest. It was an assault on our Democratic Republic.

It is not measured by how long it lasted or what the level of total destruction was. It is measured by what those people were trying to do. Way more dangerous to our nation than anything that happened in, for example, Portland last year.

I consider opposing points of view. But when they are wrong they are wrong. And anybody that thinks what happened this past week is "like" something like the Black Lives Matter protests is wrong.
You're making this into a black & white (yes, the protests are the same or no, they're not the same) comparison because it fits your narrative. While the violent protests aren't exactly the same, there are a lot of similarities. Ignoring those similarities and arguing that there is no comparison is intellectually dishonest.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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The protest are fine. The criminal activity was not protest, it was riots, looters, and criminals. In Minnesota, there were over 600 arrests, 37 were felons. Some are still being hunted down, others have been charged, plead guilty and/or are waiting in prison. Same result should happen to the criminals in DC. You cross the line from being a protester to being a criminal when you damage property and breaks the law.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:36 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:26 pm
Try again fucktard. The level of violence we saw on Wednesday pales in comparison to literally hundreds of riots we saw throughout the summer, including much destruction of local, state, and federal property & buildings, including literally trying to burn them down with people in them, with a complete opposite reaction from the left.
Give it up. You can't win this argument. The difference between people trying to assault Congress while it is in session in an effort to thwart a the Will of the People and largely random, unguided violence by people in something like the Black Lives Matter thing just isn't comparable. You can say it is as many times as you want and it won't make it so.
Wrong. Some of these (Portlamd, Seattle, etc) were very well organized. One example below Portland with the assault on the Fed Courthouse. It wasn’t largely random, unguided.
https://reason.com/volokh/2020/07/27/th ... ourthouse/
You’re right. It’s not comparable. It was far worse.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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dal4018 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:02 am
CAA Flagship wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:40 am Except that's the Lincoln Memorial :coffee:
Does not matter Black ppl would have been stopped long before entering the city.
Yes. That’s why so many of our cities were saved this year from rioting and burning. :coffee:
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:44 pm
dal4018 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:49 pm
Those ppl proved what that great man said in the '60s this a country started by violence and now it has returned to where it started.
At one point in his life did he say that? Would the older, wiser Malcom X agree with that statement?
He made the statement about CHICKENS after the JFK ASSASSINATION.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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AZGrizFan wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:24 pm
dal4018 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:02 am

Does not matter Black ppl would have been stopped long before entering the city.
Yes. That’s why so many of our cities were saved this year from rioting and burning. :coffee:
But white ppl invaded this nation's capital.What cities were invaded by black ppl???
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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BDKJMU wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:26 pm
AshevilleApp wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:02 pm

Trying to violently enter the House chamber? Try again dumb ass. Equating the two sets of protests/riots is a fools game.
Try again fucktard. The level of violence we saw on Wednesday pales in comparison to literally hundreds of riots we saw throughout the summer, including much destruction of local, state, and federal property & buildings, including literally trying to burn them down with people in them, with a complete opposite reaction from the left.
The whole planet was witness to what took place on Wednesday.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:22 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:43 pm

I think there are definite similarities so comparisons are valid. The fools game is trying to justify your side's because the other side did it first/worse. Violent protesting, rioting and looting are wrong no matter who is doing it and why.
No. This is different. There have been many instances of protests involving some violence in our history. But this was people assaulting the seat of government trying to stop the Congress of the United States from performing a Constitutional function. This was not your run of the mill violent protest. In fact I would not even call it a protest. At least a substantial portion of those people were there to do violence to the elected representatives of our country in order to stop the processing of the results of a free and fair election. It was an attack. There is a picture of a guy running around with zip tie cuffs. What did he plan to do with those? There is video of the crowd chanting "hang Mike Pence." It's WAY worse than something like the Black Lives Matter protests.

The "why" does matter. The Black Lives Matter protests happened because, rightly or wrongly, people believed injustices were being committed against people due to race. What happened this week was by people who were trying to overturn the Will of the People expressed during a Presidential election through violent means. WAY worse. Not a close call.

People who are trying to draw some kind of equivalency between what happened this past week and something like Black Lives Matter protests need to just stop. It doesn't fly.
Yes. BLM is way worse in terms of death toll and private property destruction and irreparable damage to the communities they are claiming they support.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by Gil Dobie »

Pwns wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:55 am
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:22 pm

No. This is different. There have been many instances of protests involving some violence in our history. But this was people assaulting the seat of government trying to stop the Congress of the United States from performing a Constitutional function. This was not your run of the mill violent protest. In fact I would not even call it a protest. At least a substantial portion of those people were there to do violence to the elected representatives of our country in order to stop the processing of the results of a free and fair election. It was an attack. There is a picture of a guy running around with zip tie cuffs. What did he plan to do with those? There is video of the crowd chanting "hang Mike Pence." It's WAY worse than something like the Black Lives Matter protests.

The "why" does matter. The Black Lives Matter protests happened because, rightly or wrongly, people believed injustices were being committed against people due to race. What happened this week was by people who were trying to overturn the Will of the People expressed during a Presidential election through violent means. WAY worse. Not a close call.

People who are trying to draw some kind of equivalency between what happened this past week and something like Black Lives Matter protests need to just stop. It doesn't fly.
Yes. BLM is way worse in terms of death toll and private property destruction and irreparable damage to the communities they are claiming they support.
Comparing the summer riots to the forced entrance of the US Capital, does not make the forced entrance of the US Capital any less of a despicable event.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by dal4018 »

Pwns wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:55 am
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:22 pm

No. This is different. There have been many instances of protests involving some violence in our history. But this was people assaulting the seat of government trying to stop the Congress of the United States from performing a Constitutional function. This was not your run of the mill violent protest. In fact I would not even call it a protest. At least a substantial portion of those people were there to do violence to the elected representatives of our country in order to stop the processing of the results of a free and fair election. It was an attack. There is a picture of a guy running around with zip tie cuffs. What did he plan to do with those? There is video of the crowd chanting "hang Mike Pence." It's WAY worse than something like the Black Lives Matter protests.

The "why" does matter. The Black Lives Matter protests happened because, rightly or wrongly, people believed injustices were being committed against people due to race. What happened this week was by people who were trying to overturn the Will of the People expressed during a Presidential election through violent means. WAY worse. Not a close call.

People who are trying to draw some kind of equivalency between what happened this past week and something like Black Lives Matter protests need to just stop. It doesn't fly.
Yes. BLM is way worse in terms of death toll and private property destruction and irreparable damage to the communities they are claiming they support.
Where is your evidence of destruction from anyone associated with BLM????
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by dal4018 »

Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:33 am Sad and true dal.

BLM protest in DC.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:57 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:43 pm

No. I am not. There is a huge difference between the "ordinary" protest, even if violent and destructive, and a focused effort to overturn the results of a free and fair election through an attack on the Congress of the United States while it is in session. It's not a close call. What happened this past week at the Capital was way worse than any violent protest we've had in my lifetime. It was not a protest. It was an assault on our Democratic Republic.

It is not measured by how long it lasted or what the level of total destruction was. It is measured by what those people were trying to do. Way more dangerous to our nation than anything that happened in, for example, Portland last year.

I consider opposing points of view. But when they are wrong they are wrong. And anybody that thinks what happened this past week is "like" something like the Black Lives Matter protests is wrong.
You're making this into a black & white (yes, the protests are the same or no, they're not the same) comparison because it fits your narrative. While the violent protests aren't exactly the same, there are a lot of similarities. Ignoring those similarities and arguing that there is no comparison is intellectually dishonest.
Some solid back and forth here.

Comparisons are fine. Conclusions are the interesting part and (similar to quality journalism) they don’t have to be balanced or equal to both sides to be correct.

There is a ton of noise from de-platforming, to the 10 retired Sec-Defs speaking up, to Republicans breaking ranks, to the rioters literally doing exactly what they said they were going to do and why they were doing it. Connecting these dots further indicates the sincerity of the threats that were egged on by Trump and his surrogates. Did you honestly watch what took place last week and think “meh...Both sides do it.”?

You made a great point about the BLM riots providing a road map for the confederates. I said back then that they weren’t helping the cause and were also dangerous from a Covid standpoint.

I’ll give the Trumpers a pass on this one as they’re way less experienced at this whole rally thing.

:)
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:36 am
UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:57 pm
You're making this into a black & white (yes, the protests are the same or no, they're not the same) comparison because it fits your narrative. While the violent protests aren't exactly the same, there are a lot of similarities. Ignoring those similarities and arguing that there is no comparison is intellectually dishonest.
Some solid back and forth here.

Comparisons are fine. Conclusions are the interesting part and (similar to quality journalism) they don’t have to be balanced or equal to both sides to be correct.

There is a ton of noise from de-platforming, to the 10 retired Sec-Defs speaking up, to Republicans breaking ranks, to the rioters literally doing exactly what they said they were going to do and why they were doing it. Connecting these dots further indicates the sincerity of the threats that were egged on by Trump and his surrogates. Did you honestly watch what took place last week and think “meh...Both sides do it.”?

You made a great point about the BLM riots providing a road map for the confederates. I said back then that they weren’t helping the cause and were also dangerous from a Covid standpoint.

I’ll give the Trumpers a pass on this one as they’re way less experienced at this whole rally thing.

:)
No, I don't. I thought the MAGAts were one-upping the ANTIFArts and taking it to a whole new level (egged on by the POTUS, storming the Capital, threatening the VP). What happened was horrible and the perpetrators should be found and prosecuted. What happened didn't happen in a vacuum and to dismiss any comparisons to the BLM/ANTIFA riots is illogical and as I said intellectually dishonest. We've been building toward this and to change direction we need leaders to step up and lead with true empathy and compassion (don't just dismiss the very real anger and mistrust of the alt-righters).

Unfortunately, we're circling the drain and both sides are paddling in the wrong direction.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:43 pm
AshevilleApp wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:02 pm

Trying to violently enter the House chamber? Try again dumb ass. Equating the two sets of protests/riots is a fools game.
I think there are definite similarities so comparisons are valid. The fools game is trying to justify your side's because the other side did it first/worse. Violent protesting, rioting and looting are wrong no matter who is doing it and why.
This. The "if a black person did it" is just race baiting. Neither of the blm riots or the Capitol riots are acceptable. All perpetrators should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by SDHornet »

Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:18 pm The protest are fine. The criminal activity was not protest, it was riots, looters, and criminals. In Minnesota, there were over 600 arrests, 37 were felons. Some are still being hunted down, others have been charged, plead guilty and/or are waiting in prison. Same result should happen to the criminals in DC. You cross the line from being a protester to being a criminal when you damage property and breaks the law.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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UNI88 wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:12 am
kalm wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:36 am

Some solid back and forth here.

Comparisons are fine. Conclusions are the interesting part and (similar to quality journalism) they don’t have to be balanced or equal to both sides to be correct.

There is a ton of noise from de-platforming, to the 10 retired Sec-Defs speaking up, to Republicans breaking ranks, to the rioters literally doing exactly what they said they were going to do and why they were doing it. Connecting these dots further indicates the sincerity of the threats that were egged on by Trump and his surrogates. Did you honestly watch what took place last week and think “meh...Both sides do it.”?

You made a great point about the BLM riots providing a road map for the confederates. I said back then that they weren’t helping the cause and were also dangerous from a Covid standpoint.

I’ll give the Trumpers a pass on this one as they’re way less experienced at this whole rally thing.

:)
No, I don't. I thought the MAGAts were one-upping the ANTIFArts and taking it to a whole new level (egged on by the POTUS, storming the Capital, threatening the VP). What happened was horrible and the perpetrators should be found and prosecuted. What happened didn't happen in a vacuum and to dismiss any comparisons to the BLM/ANTIFA riots is illogical and as I said intellectually dishonest. We've been building toward this and to change direction we need leaders to step up and lead with true empathy and compassion (don't just dismiss the very real anger and mistrust of the alt-righters).

Unfortunately, we're circling the drain and both sides are paddling in the wrong direction.
Well said. Biden*/Harris had a chance to actually do some "unity and healing" and instead dusted off the tired "muh racism" narratives we've been hearing since 2016. Major missed opportunity for this country to move forward.
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:39 am
UNI88 wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:12 am

No, I don't. I thought the MAGAts were one-upping the ANTIFArts and taking it to a whole new level (egged on by the POTUS, storming the Capital, threatening the VP). What happened was horrible and the perpetrators should be found and prosecuted. What happened didn't happen in a vacuum and to dismiss any comparisons to the BLM/ANTIFA riots is illogical and as I said intellectually dishonest. We've been building toward this and to change direction we need leaders to step up and lead with true empathy and compassion (don't just dismiss the very real anger and mistrust of the alt-righters).

Unfortunately, we're circling the drain and both sides are paddling in the wrong direction.
Well said. Biden*/Harris had a chance to actually do some "unity and healing" and instead dusted off the tired "muh racism" narratives we've been hearing since 2016. Major missed opportunity for this country to move forward.
So you don’t think there’s a racial component to this?
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Re: THIS IS AMERICA

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kalm wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:53 am
SDHornet wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:39 am

Well said. Biden*/Harris had a chance to actually do some "unity and healing" and instead dusted off the tired "muh racism" narratives we've been hearing since 2016. Major missed opportunity for this country to move forward.
So you don’t think there’s a racial component to this?
For a tiny minority, yes. There were white supremacy groups involved with the riot at the Capitol building. For the vast majority, no I don't think race has anything to do with it. As UNI has pointed out, the events at the Capitol did not happen in a vacuum.
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