The Republican Base

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Re: The Republican Base

Post by UNI88 »

Baldy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:35 pm
kalm wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:20 am
Yeah...no way a former policy director for the house Republican conference is a part of the establishment. :lol:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... y.amp.html

Just out of curiosity, who is conk establishment these days?
:suspicious:

Are you this obtuse in real life or is that your persona on this forum?
Evan McMullin is a registered Independent and hasn't been a Conk for almost five years. If you would've actually read his byline in his OpEd you posted, you would have known that, OR do you not read the articles you link to on here? :?
How do you define Conk in this day and age? Is it a Trump Republican? An establishment Republican?
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by Ibanez »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:47 pm
Ibanez wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:46 pm

Wrong. The moment they spoke up against Trump was the moment that you and the rest of the MadHatters started doxxing them, threatening their families, ridiculing them for not being lemmings. MadHatters have gone full blown ape shit. Electors in the EC have had to vote in secret b/c Republicans have been threatening people with violence.
Cool, now do doxxing by the Left. Or is it only bad when conks do it? Hard to keep track these days.
Not for me it isn't. Doxing is childish. Doxing is wrong, regardless who is doing it. Regardless of their political affiliation. I'm not sure what I have said now of before to make you think I'd give the Left a free pass.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by Ibanez »

Baldy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:44 pm
Ibanez wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:32 am

You seemed to think so by implying that the Republicans with the Lincoln Project were. :coffee:
You seem to be confused. Lots of Republicans don't support and refuse to support Trump, but you don't see them out there actively supporting, fundraising, and campaigning for Donk candidates.

No, I'm not confused. I see RedHatters spitting on any Republican that doesn't stand with them and Trump. I see Red Hatters voting out Republicans simply b/c they didn't bend the knee to Trump. I see Republicans running hard right to him when they're a challenger accuses them on not being loyal to Trump. The party leadership has called for Congressmen and women to resign, step down from their leadership positions b/c they disagree with Trump. Or because they criticize him.

Even if they are out there campaigning against Trump - that doesn't make them any less Republican. Trump has proven that Republican principles and ideals are fluid. How else would a twice divorced, non-Churchgoer who used commits adultery and breaks about every family value (not to mention donate to Democrats like the Clintons) wind up the darling of evangelical voters? Not to mention that with him, the Party of "small government" and "fiscal" responsibility has ballooned the debt, and increased the size of government. Obama added about $8.6T to the debt in his 8 years. Trump has almost done the same in less time. I know I know, debt doesn't matter. The federal workforce is up about 25% under Trump.

I don't even know what passes for a Republican in 2021, it certainly isn't what would qualify you 4 years ago.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... cord-high/
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:08 pm
UNI88 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:06 pm

You forgot to mention that Trump did more to get us out of wars than any other President in a long time.

I'm more worried about continuous wars with Biden, Kerry, etc. than I was with Trump.
AND he attempted to make NATO countries pay their fair share....and for that he’s hated in this country. :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:
Like with 99.99% of Trump - he has some good ideas but it gets ignored b/c his message is horrendous, divisive and insulting. If he'd STFU and let a Policy Wonk explain why we're going to play hardball until Germany, the UK, France meet their obligations, we might've had an easier time.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:01 am
Baldy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:44 pm
You seem to be confused. Lots of Republicans don't support and refuse to support Trump, but you don't see them out there actively supporting, fundraising, and campaigning for Donk candidates.

No, I'm not confused. I see RedHatters spitting on any Republican that doesn't stand with them and Trump. I see Red Hatters voting out Republicans simply b/c they didn't bend the knee to Trump. I see Republicans running hard right to him when they're a challenger accuses them on not being loyal to Trump. The party leadership has called for Congressmen and women to resign, step down from their leadership positions b/c they disagree with Trump. Or because they criticize him.

Even if they are out there campaigning against Trump - that doesn't make them any less Republican. Trump has proven that Republican principles and ideals are fluid. How else would a twice divorced, non-Churchgoer who used commits adultery and breaks about every family value (not to mention donate to Democrats like the Clintons) wind up the darling of evangelical voters? Not to mention that with him, the Party of "small government" and "fiscal" responsibility has ballooned the debt, and increased the size of government. Obama added about $8.6T to the debt in his 8 years. Trump has almost done the same in less time. I know I know, debt doesn't matter. The federal workforce is up about 25% under Trump.

I don't even know what passes for a Republican in 2021, it certainly isn't what would qualify you 4 years ago.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... cord-high/
Trump was the nearest and maybe last flotation device available in the strewn wreckage of the sinking ship that is far right Christian conservatism.

They’re clinging to it desperately and kicking off those who aren’t fully on board.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:05 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:01 am
No, I'm not confused. I see RedHatters spitting on any Republican that doesn't stand with them and Trump. I see Red Hatters voting out Republicans simply b/c they didn't bend the knee to Trump. I see Republicans running hard right to him when they're a challenger accuses them on not being loyal to Trump. The party leadership has called for Congressmen and women to resign, step down from their leadership positions b/c they disagree with Trump. Or because they criticize him.

Even if they are out there campaigning against Trump - that doesn't make them any less Republican. Trump has proven that Republican principles and ideals are fluid. How else would a twice divorced, non-Churchgoer who used commits adultery and breaks about every family value (not to mention donate to Democrats like the Clintons) wind up the darling of evangelical voters? Not to mention that with him, the Party of "small government" and "fiscal" responsibility has ballooned the debt, and increased the size of government. Obama added about $8.6T to the debt in his 8 years. Trump has almost done the same in less time. I know I know, debt doesn't matter. The federal workforce is up about 25% under Trump.

I don't even know what passes for a Republican in 2021, it certainly isn't what would qualify you 4 years ago.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... cord-high/
Trump was the nearest and maybe last flotation device available in the strewn wreckage of the sinking ship that is far right Christian conservatism.

They’re clinging to it desperately and kicking off those who aren’t fully on board.
:lol: Nice analogy!

Can you do one for the cult of socialism?
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:06 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:08 pm

AND he attempted to make NATO countries pay their fair share....and for that he’s hated in this country. :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:
Like with 99.99% of Trump - he has some good ideas but it gets ignored b/c his message is horrendous, divisive and insulting. If he'd STFU and let a Policy Wonk explain why we're going to play hardball until Germany, the UK, France meet their obligations, we might've had an easier time.
Oh, no doubt. I’m just smart enough to overlook that particular flaw and focus on the policy wins. Apparently lots of people aren’t that smart. :kisswink: :coffee:
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:01 am
Baldy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:44 pm
You seem to be confused. Lots of Republicans don't support and refuse to support Trump, but you don't see them out there actively supporting, fundraising, and campaigning for Donk candidates.

No, I'm not confused. I see RedHatters spitting on any Republican that doesn't stand with them and Trump. I see Red Hatters voting out Republicans simply b/c they didn't bend the knee to Trump. I see Republicans running hard right to him when they're a challenger accuses them on not being loyal to Trump. The party leadership has called for Congressmen and women to resign, step down from their leadership positions b/c they disagree with Trump. Or because they criticize him.

Even if they are out there campaigning against Trump - that doesn't make them any less Republican. Trump has proven that Republican principles and ideals are fluid. How else would a twice divorced, non-Churchgoer who used commits adultery and breaks about every family value (not to mention donate to Democrats like the Clintons) wind up the darling of evangelical voters? Not to mention that with him, the Party of "small government" and "fiscal" responsibility has ballooned the debt, and increased the size of government. Obama added about $8.6T to the debt in his 8 years. Trump has almost done the same in less time. I know I know, debt doesn't matter. The federal workforce is up about 25% under Trump.

I don't even know what passes for a Republican in 2021, it certainly isn't what would qualify you 4 years ago.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... cord-high/
Yes it does when they are actively campaigning for the donk candidate. Even more so when they are campaigning against conks not named Trump, and for their donk opponents..
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:44 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:01 am
No, I'm not confused. I see RedHatters spitting on any Republican that doesn't stand with them and Trump. I see Red Hatters voting out Republicans simply b/c they didn't bend the knee to Trump. I see Republicans running hard right to him when they're a challenger accuses them on not being loyal to Trump. The party leadership has called for Congressmen and women to resign, step down from their leadership positions b/c they disagree with Trump. Or because they criticize him.

Even if they are out there campaigning against Trump - that doesn't make them any less Republican. Trump has proven that Republican principles and ideals are fluid. How else would a twice divorced, non-Churchgoer who used commits adultery and breaks about every family value (not to mention donate to Democrats like the Clintons) wind up the darling of evangelical voters? Not to mention that with him, the Party of "small government" and "fiscal" responsibility has ballooned the debt, and increased the size of government. Obama added about $8.6T to the debt in his 8 years. Trump has almost done the same in less time. I know I know, debt doesn't matter. The federal workforce is up about 25% under Trump.

I don't even know what passes for a Republican in 2021, it certainly isn't what would qualify you 4 years ago.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... cord-high/
Yes it does when they are actively campaigning for the donk candidate. Even more so when they are campaigning against conks not named Trump, and for their donk opponents..
Didn't someone post a video of a bunch of Uumpa Truumpas shouting that they wouldn't vote in the Senate runoffs in Georgia because Republicans weren't doing enough to support Trump? If Trump's supporters aren't supporting Republicans does that mean that Trump isn't a Republican? Will there be any Republicans left?
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:44 am
Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:01 am


No, I'm not confused. I see RedHatters spitting on any Republican that doesn't stand with them and Trump. I see Red Hatters voting out Republicans simply b/c they didn't bend the knee to Trump. I see Republicans running hard right to him when they're a challenger accuses them on not being loyal to Trump. The party leadership has called for Congressmen and women to resign, step down from their leadership positions b/c they disagree with Trump. Or because they criticize him.

Even if they are out there campaigning against Trump - that doesn't make them any less Republican. Trump has proven that Republican principles and ideals are fluid. How else would a twice divorced, non-Churchgoer who used commits adultery and breaks about every family value (not to mention donate to Democrats like the Clintons) wind up the darling of evangelical voters? Not to mention that with him, the Party of "small government" and "fiscal" responsibility has ballooned the debt, and increased the size of government. Obama added about $8.6T to the debt in his 8 years. Trump has almost done the same in less time. I know I know, debt doesn't matter. The federal workforce is up about 25% under Trump.

I don't even know what passes for a Republican in 2021, it certainly isn't what would qualify you 4 years ago.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... cord-high/
Yes it does when they are actively campaigning for the donk candidate. Even more so when they are campaigning against conks not named Trump, and for their donk opponents..
Just because it hurts your feelings that a Republican has a different opinion doesn't mean he isn't a Republican.


It just means your a snowflake who can't accept another point of view.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by SDHornet »

Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:46 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:47 pm

Cool, now do doxxing by the Left. Or is it only bad when conks do it? Hard to keep track these days.
Not for me it isn't. Doxing is childish. Doxing is wrong, regardless who is doing it. Regardless of their political affiliation. I'm not sure what I have said now of before to make you think I'd give the Left a free pass.
My intent was more general to the doxing. Doxing only became bad when it started being used against Leftists. Trump showed conks how to start pushing back and that has enraged the Left. The Repubs absolutely needs to adopt this approach if they want to have any chance at winning anything in the future or to keep its newly expanded base. Play by whatever rules the Leftists make (non-violence only) and shove it back in their faces, or take the "moral high ground" and keep getting their shit pushed in circa 2012-2016 pre-Trump. Repubs take the former route and adopt most of the Trumpian policies and they have a chance at retaining the base Trump got them.
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Re: The Republican Base

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Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:32 am
BDKJMU wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:44 am
Yes it does when they are actively campaigning for the donk candidate. Even more so when they are campaigning against conks not named Trump, and for their donk opponents..
Just because it hurts your feelings that a Republican has a different opinion doesn't mean he isn't a Republican.


It just means your a snowflake who can't accept another point of view.
Wrong. Someone who is campaigning against numerous other Republicans, and campaigning for numerous donks running against said Republicans, isn’t a Republican. I’m sorry you’re too dense to understand that.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by Pwns »

There are Republicans that oppose Trump because of who he is, and there are others who are pissed off they didn't get the consummate defeat of the GOP they wanted that might allow neocons and globalists to regain power in the GOP.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:43 pm
Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:32 am

Just because it hurts your feelings that a Republican has a different opinion doesn't mean he isn't a Republican.


It just means your a snowflake who can't accept another point of view.
Wrong. Someone who is campaigning against numerous other Republicans, and campaigning for numerous donks running against said Republicans, isn’t a Republican. I’m sorry you’re too dense to understand that.
So ONLY Trumpers are now Republicans?

Btw, they were targeting Trumpism as early as the summer and probably long before.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by UNI88 »

Pwns wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:09 pm There are Republicans that oppose Trump because of who he is, and there are others who are pissed off they didn't get the consummate defeat of the GOP they wanted that might allow neocons and globalists to regain power in the GOP.
The "neocons and globalists" are just as big of a scourge and cancer on the GOP as Trump and his bootlicking followers.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by AZGrizFan »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:36 pm
Pwns wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:09 pm There are Republicans that oppose Trump because of who he is, and there are others who are pissed off they didn't get the consummate defeat of the GOP they wanted that might allow neocons and globalists to regain power in the GOP.
The "neocons and globalists" are just as big of a scourge and cancer on the GOP as Trump and his bootlicking followers.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:52 am
kalm wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:05 am

Trump was the nearest and maybe last flotation device available in the strewn wreckage of the sinking ship that is far right Christian conservatism.

They’re clinging to it desperately and kicking off those who aren’t fully on board.
:lol: Nice analogy!

Can you do one for the cult of socialism?
Trump was the last piton precariously lodged in a crevice on the
face of El Capitan affording at least a graceful abseil into well regulated capitalism before the Squad cuts the rope that prevents a Maoist free fall.

(What do I win??!? :mrgreen: )
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:26 am
UNI88 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:52 am
:lol: Nice analogy!

Can you do one for the cult of socialism?
Trump was the last piton precariously lodged in a crevice on the face of El Capitan affording at least a graceful abseil into well-regulated capitalism before the Squad cuts the rope and causes a Maoist free fall.

(What do I win??!? :mrgreen: )
A cookie for partially finished work. :kisswink:

You conveniently left out any mention of the cult of people who either don't know that socialism has never worked on a large scale or inexplicitly believe that the next time will be different without being able to explain how.

They're a cult. Their beliefs are religious but in the crazy, road to hell, Jim Jones kind of way. The major difference is they want to take everyone else with them.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:43 pm
Ibanez wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:32 am

Just because it hurts your feelings that a Republican has a different opinion doesn't mean he isn't a Republican.


It just means your a snowflake who can't accept another point of view.
Wrong. Someone who is campaigning against numerous other Republicans, and campaigning for numerous donks running against said Republicans, isn’t a Republican. I’m sorry you’re too dense to understand that.
You don't think there are two sides? It's either your way or no way? How Trumpian of you. :roll: :roll: Trump is a RINO. He didn't give 2 shits about Republicanism before his run. He saw the GOP as the easiest White House. They would be the easiest group to manipulate.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:33 am
kalm wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:26 am

Trump was the last piton precariously lodged in a crevice on the face of El Capitan affording at least a graceful abseil into well-regulated capitalism before the Squad cuts the rope and causes a Maoist free fall.

(What do I win??!? :mrgreen: )
A cookie for partially finished work. :kisswink:

You conveniently left out any mention of the cult of people who either don't know that socialism has never worked on a large scale or inexplicitly believe that the next time will be different without being able to explain how.

They're a cult. Their beliefs are religious but in the crazy, road to hell, Jim Jones kind of way. The major difference is they want to take everyone else with them.
False equivalency. Trump is a large scale cult of personality. True socialists are few in number. Those desiring well regulated capitalism and less competition stifling oligarchy with a few socialist crumbs sprinkled in to that mixed economy are a loosely followed cult of ideas.

America...we founded our nation on ideas rather than the seeds of feudal nobility.

:king:
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:59 am
UNI88 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:33 am
A cookie for partially finished work. :kisswink:

You conveniently left out any mention of the cult of people who either don't know that socialism has never worked on a large scale or inexplicitly believe that the next time will be different without being able to explain how.

They're a cult. Their beliefs are religious but in the crazy, road to hell, Jim Jones kind of way. The major difference is they want to take everyone else with them.
False equivalency. Trump is a large scale cult of personality. True socialists are few in number. Those desiring well regulated capitalism and less competition stifling oligarchy with a few socialist crumbs sprinkled in to that mixed economy are a loosely followed cult of ideas.

America...we founded our nation on ideas rather than the seeds of feudal nobility.

:king:
Yes Trump is also the leader of a cult but like you said they're on a lifeboat and kicking off and attempting to marginalize anyone who isn't 100% in (who from your list of Baldy's RINOs is Leah Remini? :D ).

Ctrl-left socialists/marxists (Bernie Bois, followers of the Squad, founders of the blm organization, etc.) are just as much of a cult(s) and they're more numerous than you want to admit. They don't want well-regulated capitalism, they want to end capitalism.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:06 am
kalm wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:59 am

False equivalency. Trump is a large scale cult of personality. True socialists are few in number. Those desiring well regulated capitalism and less competition stifling oligarchy with a few socialist crumbs sprinkled in to that mixed economy are a loosely followed cult of ideas.

America...we founded our nation on ideas rather than the seeds of feudal nobility.

:king:
Yes Trump is also the leader of a cult but like you said they're on a lifeboat and kicking off and attempting to marginalize anyone who isn't 100% in (who from your list of Baldy's RINOs is Leah Remini? :D ).

Ctrl-left socialists/marxists (Bernie Bois, followers of the Squad, founders of the blm organization, etc.) are just as much of a cult(s) and they're more numerous than you want to admit. They don't want well-regulated capitalism, they want to end capitalism.
“Leah Remini” was a pure gold analogy. :clap: :lol:

Exactly how numerous are they? By what metrics? And why are they so under-represented?

(Honest questions).
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:36 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:43 pm
Wrong. Someone who is campaigning against numerous other Republicans, and campaigning for numerous donks running against said Republicans, isn’t a Republican. I’m sorry you’re too dense to understand that.
So ONLY Trumpers are now Republicans?

Btw, they were targeting Trumpism as early as the summer and probably long before.
You obviously didn’t even pay attention to who I was talking about? Could have Republicans who didn’t suppport Trump & campaigned against him, and sure, still be Republican. But when you have people who in addition to campaigning against Trump, campaigned against most other Republicans, trying to defeat most Republicans in House and the Sentate, those aren’t Republicans..ie the Lincoln Group and their ilk..
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:53 am
BDKJMU wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:43 pm
Wrong. Someone who is campaigning against numerous other Republicans, and campaigning for numerous donks running against said Republicans, isn’t a Republican. I’m sorry you’re too dense to understand that.
You don't think there are two sides? It's either your way or no way? How Trumpian of you. :roll: :roll: Trump is a RINO. He didn't give 2 shits about Republicanism before his run. He saw the GOP as the easiest White House. They would be the easiest group to manipulate.
See my previous post. I wasn’t referring to those so that just campaigned against Trump.
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Re: The Republican Base

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:56 am
kalm wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:36 pm
So ONLY Trumpers are now Republicans?

Btw, they were targeting Trumpism as early as the summer and probably long before.
You obviously didn’t even pay attention to who I was talking about? Could have Republicans who didn’t suppport Trump & campaigned against him, and sure, still be Republican. But when you have people who in addition to campaigning against Trump, campaigned against most other Republicans, trying to defeat most Republicans in House and the Sentate, those aren’t Republicans..ie the Lincoln Group and their ilk..
Doesn't that also apply to the Trump supporters who have their panties in such a bunch over what they perceive as the Republican Party's inadequate support for 'lil Donnie that they refuse to support the Republican candidates in the Georgia runnoffs? All of those Trump supporters aren't REAL Republicans either. Why aren't you, Baldy, etc. criticizing them like you are members of the Lincoln Project?
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