Lame Duck Trump

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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by catbooster »

Ibanez wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:18 am
BDKJMU wrote: Well, I was responding to “the new administration”. As far as just Biden himself, whom the Senators were addressing, it doesn’t hurt, and it doesn’t matter. Bidem won’t be able to remember it anyway.
That still doesn’t make sense. You want to your new Cabinet and policy wonks to know the current status is trade talks, negotiations, programs to help the old, ill, vets, etc.... it just makes sense to me. Help your country move on


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Help your country move on? This is Trump we're talking about. He doesn't care about the country. It's just fortunate that his interests align with some policies that are good for the country and he also wants to pacify his base.

I heard an interview with a Bush advisor who said that the delay in getting the transition team going due to the FLA court cases hindered them. BDK just like to make excuses for Trump.
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:25 pm Ok. It’s clear you’re being obtuse and not trying to understand what I’m saying. He’s going to being to fill non confirmable posts - getting the policy wonks in order. He needs those people to meet with their counterparts for a firm handoff. How does that not make sense to you?


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Govt bureaucrats don't need a 2+ month handoff.
Why? The government is a massive machine. It might take more than a couple weeks to completely hand off the work that’s on going.


Have you ever worked in the government? Speed and efficiency aren’t its wheelhouse.


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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:49 am
BDKJMU wrote: Govt bureaucrats don't need a 2+ month handoff.
Why? The government is a massive machine. It might take more than a couple weeks to completely hand off the work that’s on going.


Have you ever worked in the government? Speed and efficiency aren’t its wheelhouse.


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Not shit speed and efficiency aren't in its wheelhouse. There are about 2.2 million government employees.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT
These political appointees are a TINY fraction of 1% of those. Whether they start now, or in Dec is going to be a negligible difference on the overall inefficiency of govt. Heck, in many areas, the less govt is doing, the better.

If we're having this conversation a month+ from now, after the state electors have cast their ballots, and a winner has been declared, then you might have a point.
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:15 am
Ibanez wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:49 am
Why? The government is a massive machine. It might take more than a couple weeks to completely hand off the work that’s on going.

Have you ever worked in the government? Speed and efficiency aren’t its wheelhouse.

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Not shit speed and efficiency aren't in its wheelhouse. There are about 2.2 million government employees.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT
These political appointees are a TINY fraction of 1% of those. Whether they start now, or in Dec is going to be a negligible difference on the overall inefficiency of govt. Heck, in many areas, the less govt is doing, the better.

If we're having this conversation a month+ from now, after the state electors have cast their ballots, and a winner has been declared, then you might have a point.
And IF Trump runs again in 2024 and IF he beats Biden (or Harris) and IF Biden/Harris does this to Trump, Trump and you will throw tantrums over it.
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:33 am
BDKJMU wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:15 am
Not shit speed and efficiency aren't in its wheelhouse. There are about 2.2 million government employees.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT
These political appointees are a TINY fraction of 1% of those. Whether they start now, or in Dec is going to be a negligible difference on the overall inefficiency of govt. Heck, in many areas, the less govt is doing, the better.

If we're having this conversation a month+ from now, after the state electors have cast their ballots, and a winner has been declared, then you might have a point.
And IF Trump runs again in 2024 and IF he beats Biden (or Harris) and IF Biden/Harris does this to Trump, Trump and you will throw tantrums over it.
He'll be dead by then and they'll have buried him in a piano crate
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:15 am
Ibanez wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:49 am
Why? The government is a massive machine. It might take more than a couple weeks to completely hand off the work that’s on going.


Have you ever worked in the government? Speed and efficiency aren’t its wheelhouse.


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Not shit speed and efficiency aren't in its wheelhouse. There are about 2.2 million government employees.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT
These political appointees are a TINY fraction of 1% of those. Whether they start now, or in Dec is going to be a negligible difference on the overall inefficiency of govt. Heck, in many areas, the less govt is doing, the better.

If we're having this conversation a month+ from now, after the state electors have cast their ballots, and a winner has been declared, then you might have a point.
You do realize that those political appointees will be managing, directing the work, etc.. of the other 99%. We have 2 different philosophies on turning over work to the person/team that's coming in behind you. I don't see the harm in doing as much as you can when you have the time.
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:41 am
BDKJMU wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:15 am
Not shit speed and efficiency aren't in its wheelhouse. There are about 2.2 million government employees.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT
These political appointees are a TINY fraction of 1% of those. Whether they start now, or in Dec is going to be a negligible difference on the overall inefficiency of govt. Heck, in many areas, the less govt is doing, the better.

If we're having this conversation a month+ from now, after the state electors have cast their ballots, and a winner has been declared, then you might have a point.
You do realize that those political appointees will be managing, directing the work, etc.. of the other 99%. We have 2 different philosophies on turning over work to the person/team that's coming in behind you. I don't see the harm in doing as much as you can when you have the time.
Some toddlers need longer tantrums to work it all out.
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:23 am
Ibanez wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:41 am
You do realize that those political appointees will be managing, directing the work, etc.. of the other 99%. We have 2 different philosophies on turning over work to the person/team that's coming in behind you. I don't see the harm in doing as much as you can when you have the time.
Some toddlers need longer tantrums to work it all out.
:nod:

I wonder if Trump's tantrum will last longer than Gore's or Hillary's (which is still going at 4+ years).
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by mainejeff »

UNI88 wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:46 am
kalm wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:23 am

Some toddlers need longer tantrums to work it all out.
:nod:

I wonder if Trump's tantrum will last longer than Gore's or Hillary's (which is still going at 4+ years).
Seriously?
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by UNI88 »

mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:27 pm
UNI88 wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:46 am
:nod:

I wonder if Trump's tantrum will last longer than Gore's or Hillary's (which is still going at 4+ years).
Seriously?
When did Gore concede? Did pseudo-progressives get upset that he dragged it out?

Why did Hillary Clinton say Biden should not concede the election "under any circumstances"? Has she stopped blaming her 2016 loss on trumped up claims of Russian collusion?
  • Do I think there was election tampering/fraud? Yes.
  • Do I think supporters of both parties engage in election tampering/fraud? Yes.
  • Do I think it impacted the 2016 or 2020 election results? Probably not.
  • Do I think the charges of tampering/fraud should be investigated and violators prosecuted? Absolutely.
  • Do I think it would help if Trump were muzzled so he stops the incendiary comments? Yes.
Donks and Conks exchanged hymnals and are now singing what the other was singing in 2016.
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:55 pm
mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:27 pm

Seriously?
When did Gore concede? Did pseudo-progressives get upset that he dragged it out?

Why did Hillary Clinton say Biden should not concede the election "under any circumstances"? Has she stopped blaming her 2016 loss on trumped up claims of Russian collusion?
  • Do I think there was election tampering/fraud? Yes.
  • Do I think supporters of both parties engage in election tampering/fraud? Yes.
  • Do I think it impacted the 2016 or 2020 election results? Probably not.
  • Do I think the charges of tampering/fraud should be investigated and violators prosecuted? Absolutely.
  • Do I think it would help if Trump were muzzled so he stops the incendiary comments? Yes.
Donks and Conks exchanged hymnals and are now singing what the other was singing in 2016.
Excellent points, most of which I agree. I disagree with the last one though. The media has been proven to be heavily biased against anything Trump says/does even if it is on point. If Trump stopped being Trump at this point, his case never gets heard whether there are legitimate points or not.
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by UNI88 »

SDHornet wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:57 pm
UNI88 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:55 pm
When did Gore concede? Did pseudo-progressives get upset that he dragged it out?

Why did Hillary Clinton say Biden should not concede the election "under any circumstances"? Has she stopped blaming her 2016 loss on trumped up claims of Russian collusion?
  • Do I think there was election tampering/fraud? Yes.
  • Do I think supporters of both parties engage in election tampering/fraud? Yes.
  • Do I think it impacted the 2016 or 2020 election results? Probably not.
  • Do I think the charges of tampering/fraud should be investigated and violators prosecuted? Absolutely.
  • Do I think it would help if Trump were muzzled so he stops the incendiary comments? Yes.
Donks and Conks exchanged hymnals and are now singing what the other was singing in 2016.
Excellent points, most of which I agree. I disagree with the last one though. The media has been proven to be heavily biased against anything Trump says/does even if it is on point. If Trump stopped being Trump at this point, his case never gets heard whether there are legitimate points or not.
I understand that the MSM is biased against Trump. My issue with Trump's statements and Tweets is that he is making unfounded allegations that are not being legally pursued.

His claims are PR that rile up his base and members of the base are making threats as a result. What he's doing is similar to yelling fire in a crowded theater but it's harder to prove the connection between the cause and effect so he'll probably get away with it even if his incendiary comments incite violence.

If Trump stopped being Trump at this point, his cases might not be heard and reported by the media but that's not where they need to be made or heard. They need to be made through election review processes and the courts.
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by mainejeff »

Trump is trying to steal the election. If this were a Democrat....we'd never hear the end of it.
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by GannonFan »

mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:39 pm Trump is trying to steal the election. If this were a Democrat....we'd never hear the end of it.
Of course - heck, I'm still bringing up Gore refusing to give in until he was literally out of options (and then saying he was mad that he was out of options) and that was 20 years ago. In 2040 we'll still be talking about how Trump threw a temper tantrum like a toddler and dragged out the election results until he too was fully out of options. Not sure what form this message board will be when we get to that point but it will still be true.
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by mainejeff »

GannonFan wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:19 pm
mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:39 pm Trump is trying to steal the election. If this were a Democrat....we'd never hear the end of it.
Of course - heck, I'm still bringing up Gore refusing to give in until he was literally out of options (and then saying he was mad that he was out of options) and that was 20 years ago. In 2040 we'll still be talking about how Trump threw a temper tantrum like a toddler and dragged out the election results until he too was fully out of options. Not sure what form this message board will be when we get to that point but it will still be true.
Did Gore try to interfere with election officials and try to undermine the election though?
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by UNI88 »

mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:27 pm
GannonFan wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:19 pm
Of course - heck, I'm still bringing up Gore refusing to give in until he was literally out of options (and then saying he was mad that he was out of options) and that was 20 years ago. In 2040 we'll still be talking about how Trump threw a temper tantrum like a toddler and dragged out the election results until he too was fully out of options. Not sure what form this message board will be when we get to that point but it will still be true.
Did Gore try to interfere with election officials and try to undermine the election though?
If Trump is interfering with election officials and trying to undermine the election how could the Russian collusion impeachment hearings be described as anything other than an attempt by Nancy Pelosi to undermine the results of the 2016 election.

Neither the Donks or Conks have moral high ground on defending or disputing the 2020 election.
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by GannonFan »

mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:27 pm
GannonFan wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:19 pm

Of course - heck, I'm still bringing up Gore refusing to give in until he was literally out of options (and then saying he was mad that he was out of options) and that was 20 years ago. In 2040 we'll still be talking about how Trump threw a temper tantrum like a toddler and dragged out the election results until he too was fully out of options. Not sure what form this message board will be when we get to that point but it will still be true.
Did Gore try to interfere with election officials and try to undermine the election though?
I'd argue he went even further when he impugned the reputation of the SCOTUS, first by waging an election result contention that had to be passed along to the SCOTUS eventually just to resolve, and second by, after the SCOTUS ruled not in his favor, by condemning the result and claiming it solely politically motivated. We've literally had hundreds of books in the past 20 years now that have carried this idea forward since then and have diminished the reputation of the SCOTUS. So yes, I still hold Gore up as an example of what it looks like to not really concede, and Gore will now find himself forever linked with Trump since he's carrying on in the same self-destructive way/
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by Baldy »

mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:27 pm
GannonFan wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:19 pm

Of course - heck, I'm still bringing up Gore refusing to give in until he was literally out of options (and then saying he was mad that he was out of options) and that was 20 years ago. In 2040 we'll still be talking about how Trump threw a temper tantrum like a toddler and dragged out the election results until he too was fully out of options. Not sure what form this message board will be when we get to that point but it will still be true.
Did Gore try to interfere with election officials and try to undermine the election though?
Yes.
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by Baldy »

mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:39 pm Trump is trying to steal the election. If this were a Democrat....we'd never hear the end of it.
This is a joke, right?

Georgia 2018...Abrams still hasn't conceded. Her and her conspirators in the Donk party still claim to this day that the election was "stolen" and she is the real governor of Georgia. She's a clown, BUT to the Donks she's a rock star and the media just loves her.
You're just as fucked in the head as JSO. :lol:
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by UNI88 »

Baldy wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:52 am
mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:39 pm Trump is trying to steal the election. If this were a Democrat....we'd never hear the end of it.
This is a joke, right?

Georgia 2018...Abrams still hasn't conceded. Her and her conspirators in the Donk party still claim to this day that the election was "stolen" and she is the real governor of Georgia. She's a clown, BUT to the Donks she's a rock star and the media just loves her.
You're just as fucked in the head as JSO and Trump is just as fucked in the head as Gore & Abrams. :lol:
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by 89Hen »

Baldy wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:52 am
mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:39 pm Trump is trying to steal the election. If this were a Democrat....we'd never hear the end of it.
This is a joke, right?
I can only assume he means we'd never hear the end of the election.
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by CAA Flagship »

Baldy wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:52 am
mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:39 pm Trump is trying to steal the election. If this were a Democrat....we'd never hear the end of it.
This is a joke, right?

Georgia 2018...Abrams still hasn't conceded. Her and her conspirators in the Donk party still claim to this day that the election was "stolen" and she is the real governor of Georgia. She's a clown, BUT to the Donks she's a rock star and the media just loves her.
You're just as fucked in the head as JSO. :lol:
Abr ams :lol:
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Re: Lame Duck Trump

Post by CAA Flagship »

Ideally, it would be nice to have your cabinet members involved in the transition information transfer.
Has Biden appointed anyone yet?
I can understand the argument of wanting to know the issues before choosing the cabinet member for the sake of getting the best match to the situation. But it shouldn't be that different than what Biden or Carmelo already know.
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:34 pm
mainejeff wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:27 pm

Did Gore try to interfere with election officials and try to undermine the election though?
If Trump is interfering with election officials and trying to undermine the election how could the Russian collusion impeachment hearings be described as anything other than an attempt by Nancy Pelosi to undermine the results of the 2016 election.

Neither the Donks or Conks have moral high ground on defending or disputing the 2020 election.
That's the irony we find ourselves in. Let the system run its course via the Courts and this all gets sorted out one way or another. Not sure why either side is screaming about it one way or another.

The "Trump filing lawsuits is defaming the democratic process" nonsense needs to stop.
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Re: Limp Dick Trump

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:34 pm
SDHornet wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:57 pm

Excellent points, most of which I agree. I disagree with the last one though. The media has been proven to be heavily biased against anything Trump says/does even if it is on point. If Trump stopped being Trump at this point, his case never gets heard whether there are legitimate points or not.
I understand that the MSM is biased against Trump. My issue with Trump's statements and Tweets is that he is making unfounded allegations that are not being legally pursued.

His claims are PR that rile up his base and members of the base are making threats as a result. What he's doing is similar to yelling fire in a crowded theater but it's harder to prove the connection between the cause and effect so he'll probably get away with it even if his incendiary comments incite violence.

If Trump stopped being Trump at this point, his cases might not be heard and reported by the media but that's not where they need to be made or heard. They need to be made through election review processes and the courts.
Agreed, and yes his Tweets and comments are all PR at this point so not sure why everyone is getting worked up about it. If he has to goods then the Courts will sort it out. It's pretty straight forward.
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