2020 General Election

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:37 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:53 am

It is not.

Trump and his MAGAts are a threat to the republic but no less so than pseudo-progressives who don't understand history or economics. They are a threat to the republic, the economy, individual rights, global security and our quality of life.
I think you are completely wrong. We just went through...and to some extent are still going through...a serious attempt to corrupt our election process and overthrow the results of a free and fair election. There has been nothing else like it in my lifetime. And it was Trump and the Republicans that did it and are still to some extent doing it. The Democrats, in my 63 year lifetime, have never done anything this bad. The Democrats have also never aligned themselves behind an atrocity that is as much of an atrocity as Trump is. They aligned themselves with an Authoritarian who is obviously willing to try to make himself a dictator.

The Republican Party, right now, is indeed a threat to our Democratic Republic system of government. They are far more of a threat at this moment in history than the Democrat Party has ever been during my lifetime.
They just aligned themselves with the fucking Taliban.

Go fuck yourself.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:22 am
JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:37 pm

I think you are completely wrong. We just went through...and to some extent are still going through...a serious attempt to corrupt our election process and overthrow the results of a free and fair election. There has been nothing else like it in my lifetime. And it was Trump and the Republicans that did it and are still to some extent doing it. The Democrats, in my 63 year lifetime, have never done anything this bad. The Democrats have also never aligned themselves behind an atrocity that is as much of an atrocity as Trump is. They aligned themselves with an Authoritarian who is obviously willing to try to make himself a dictator.

The Republican Party, right now, is indeed a threat to our Democratic Republic system of government. They are far more of a threat at this moment in history than the Democrat Party has ever been during my lifetime.
They just aligned themselves with the fucking Taliban.
.
No they didn't. You know better than that. The President that negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan with the Taliban while excluding the Afghan government left office in January. Biden took advantage of that to do what he wanted to do anyway and I disagree with that. His administration also accepted some extent of Taliban cooperation in maintaining order while the evacuation was going out because he wanted us out as quickly as possible and the Taliban also wanted us out as quickly as possible. But that's not aligning with the Taliban.

I don't agree with the way Biden handled Afghanistan at all. But it was not and is not a threat to move our system towards authoritarianism or an effort to stay in power in spite of losing an election.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

A group hired by Trump-friendly Republicans to examine the results of the 2020 election in Arizona’s largest county spun falsehoods about deleted data, double voting and other malfeasance in a report that ignored basic facts about how elections are run.
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump ... 61776cc046

First on the list:
LOGAN, claiming election results were deleted from Maricopa County’s election management system: "So some individual went into an application, and they chose specifically to run something that would clear all records in the system that was used to generate the official results, the day before an audit started."

THE FACTS: No, the data never disappeared; it was just moved. Maricopa County officials made copies of the data and archived it before removing it from the election management system.

"We have backups for all Nov. data & those archives were never subpoenaed," the county said in a statement on Twitter. County officials said data cannot be stored indefinitely on the election management system. "Cyber Ninjas don’t understand the business of elections," the county said. "We can’t keep everything on the EMS server because it has storage limits.”
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:01 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:22 am

They just aligned themselves with the fucking Taliban.
.
No they didn't. You know better than that. The President that negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan with the Taliban while excluding the Afghan government left office in January. Biden took advantage of that to do what he wanted to do anyway and I disagree with that. His administration also accepted some extent of Taliban cooperation in maintaining order while the evacuation was going out because he wanted us out as quickly as possible and the Taliban also wanted us out as quickly as possible. But that's not aligning with the Taliban.

I don't agree with the way Biden handled Afghanistan at all. But it was not and is not a threat to move our system towards authoritarianism or an effort to stay in power in spite of losing an election.
They handed out kill lists.
They shared intelligence.
They left hundreds of people behind to get killed.

They aligned themselves with the enemy for political expediency. So, yeah, fuck him.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by BDKJMU »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:23 am
JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:01 am

No they didn't. You know better than that. The President that negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan with the Taliban while excluding the Afghan government left office in January. Biden took advantage of that to do what he wanted to do anyway and I disagree with that. His administration also accepted some extent of Taliban cooperation in maintaining order while the evacuation was going out because he wanted us out as quickly as possible and the Taliban also wanted us out as quickly as possible. But that's not aligning with the Taliban.

I don't agree with the way Biden handled Afghanistan at all. But it was not and is not a threat to move our system towards authoritarianism or an effort to stay in power in spite of losing an election.
They handed out kill lists.
They shared intelligence.
They left hundreds of people behind to get killed.

They aligned themselves with the enemy for political expediency. So, yeah, fuck him.
They also droned an aid worker and his entire family (7 children among them)..
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:04 am
A group hired by Trump-friendly Republicans to examine the results of the 2020 election in Arizona’s largest county spun falsehoods about deleted data, double voting and other malfeasance in a report that ignored basic facts about how elections are run.
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump ... 61776cc046

First on the list:
LOGAN, claiming election results were deleted from Maricopa County’s election management system: "So some individual went into an application, and they chose specifically to run something that would clear all records in the system that was used to generate the official results, the day before an audit started."

THE FACTS: No, the data never disappeared; it was just moved. Maricopa County officials made copies of the data and archived it before removing it from the election management system.

"We have backups for all Nov. data & those archives were never subpoenaed," the county said in a statement on Twitter. County officials said data cannot be stored indefinitely on the election management system. "Cyber Ninjas don’t understand the business of elections," the county said. "We can’t keep everything on the EMS server because it has storage limits.”
Is that the same AP that lied about Hamas being in their building?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

Ibanez wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:42 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:22 am So if the leaked draft report is correct, the audit came around 600 ballots total difference, so no biggie there, but did find 55,000 votes need better answers.

Nothing earth shattering, but 55k in ballots could swing the election. Don't want to disenfranchise voters.
The findings: "After nearly six months and almost $6 million," The Post reports, "the draft report shows that the review concluded that 45,469 more ballots were cast for Biden in Maricopa County than for Trump, widening Biden’s margin by 360 more votes than certified results."
https://www.axios.com/arizona-recount-r ... 4ddb2.html


:lol: :lol:
So let's deal with the last 55k in ballots and see where this goes.

This is reminiscent of the WA state governors election years ago. The race was decided by under 50 votes. The after action review pretty much admitted they didn't have any processes to deal with such a close count. Seems a certain amount of slop is allowed in AZ and that level of slop is greater than the margin of victory.

If the shoe were on the other foot, you know the Dems and media would be howling about stolen elections and all the disenfranchisement that happened. 24/7.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

SeattleGriz wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:43 am
So let's deal with the last 55k in ballots and see where this goes.

This is reminiscent of the WA state governors election years ago. The race was decided by under 50 votes. The after action review pretty much admitted they didn't have any processes to deal with such a close count. Seems a certain amount of slop is allowed in AZ and that level of slop is greater than the margin of victory.

If the shoe were on the other foot, you know the Dems and media would be howling about stolen elections and all the disenfranchisement that happened. 24/7.
Of course the Dems would be...that's how this works. "What's good for me is not good for thee" and vice versa. :lol:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

The light makes them scatter….
In the real world, Joshua Alayon worked as a real estate agent in Pompano Beach, Fla., where he used the handle “SouthFloridasFavoriteRealtor” to urge buyers on Facebook to move to “the most beautiful State.”

But online, data revealed by the massive hack of Epik, an Internet-services company popular with the far right, signaled a darker side. Alayon’s name and personal details were found on invoices suggesting he had once paid for websites with names such as racisminc.com, whitesencyclopedia.com, christiansagainstisrael.com and theholocaustisfake.com.
The information was included among hundreds of thousands of transactions published this month by the hacking group Anonymous that exposed previously obscure details of far-right sites and launched a race among extremism researchers to identify the hidden promoters of online hate.
Story continues below advertisement
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After Alayon’s name appeared in the breached data, his brokerage, Travers Miran Realty, dropped him as an agent, as first reported by the real estate news site Inman. The brokerage’s owner, Rick Rapp, told The Washington Post that he didn’t “want to be involved with anyone with thoughts or motives like that.”…………………….

Epik provides Web services to many prominent right-wing fixtures online, including the media group One America News, the video site Bitchute, the social media site Gab and the message board Patriots.win. Other domains show links to targeted harassment campaigns of journalists or activists, including by falsely linking them to allegations of heinous acts.

The company was used last month to register the domain for Strikebackforfreedom.com, a campaign that attorney Lin Wood, a supporter of former president Donald Trump, has said on Telegram was bought by his FightBack Foundation. The site says it is affiliated with Sidney Powell and other prominent purveyors of false conspiracy theories about election fraud and the coronavirus vaccine, and it urged people to “STOP doing business with the enemy,” such as companies mandating that employees get vaccinated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... k-fallout/
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

Bottom line: Biden won the election. That fact has not been in reasonable doubt by any realistic/reasonable person since mid November of 2020. Republicans really, really need to stop this "voter fraud" crap. It's not a significant factor. And to the extent that it is a factor at all there is zero evidence that it favors either of the major political parties over the other.

The reality is that the Republican Party represents minority sentiment. Not by an overwhelming margin. But it represents minority sentiment. Also, the reality is that the situation in terms of public sentiment is extremely likely to get worse for them as demographics continue to evolve. They need to stop trying to deal with those things by doing the "voter fraud" cop out and trying to keep people who are likely to vote against them from voting.
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2020 General Election

Post by LeadBolt »

You are correct that Biden won.

The reluctance of Democrats to have an impartial investigation of whether elections in this country are fair or not, raises the question of why not.

To some, the question of how someone won and are elections being conducted equably under the law are essential.

One citizen, one vote should be the standard.


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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

LeadBolt wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:42 am You are correct that Biden won.

The reluctance of Democrats to have an impartial investigation of whether elections in this country are fair or not, raises the question of why not.

To some, the question of how someone won and are elections being conducted equably under the law are essential.

One citizen, one vote should be the standard.


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So you're for getting rid of the Electoral College?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

LeadBolt wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:42 am You are correct that Biden won.

The reluctance of Democrats to have an impartial investigation of whether elections in this country are fair or not, raises the question of why not.

To some, the question of how someone won and are elections being conducted equably under the law are essential.

One citizen, one vote should be the standard.


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Republicans are for impartial investigations?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:08 am
LeadBolt wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:42 am You are correct that Biden won.

The reluctance of Democrats to have an impartial investigation of whether elections in this country are fair or not, raises the question of why not.

To some, the question of how someone won and are elections being conducted equably under the law are essential.

One citizen, one vote should be the standard.


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So you're for getting rid of the Electoral College?
No, we just prefer dead people and people who don’t cast a ballot at all aren’t somehow voting for a singular party, or voting multiple times. It’s really not that difficult to comprehend.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:29 am
Ibanez wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:08 am

So you're for getting rid of the Electoral College?
No, we just prefer dead people and people who don’t cast a ballot at all aren’t somehow voting for a singular party, or voting multiple times. It’s really not that difficult to comprehend.
One person one vote is something that proponents of abolishing the EC rally behind, that's why I asked.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:30 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:29 am

No, we just prefer dead people and people who don’t cast a ballot at all aren’t somehow voting for a singular party, or voting multiple times. It’s really not that difficult to comprehend.
One person one vote is something that proponents of abolishing the EC rally behind, that's why I asked.
He used it in the context of one person-one vote, as opposed to one person-fifty votes.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:31 am
Ibanez wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:30 am

One person one vote is something that proponents of abolishing the EC rally behind, that's why I asked.
He used it in the context of one person-one vote, as opposed to one person-fifty votes.
:suspicious: The "one person - fifty votes" would be like the EC. One Person (elector) - 153,900 votes (if we're using SC)

I guess he'll have to come back and tell us what he really means, hence my question. B/c it appears he's all about the Popular Vote being the way we chose the President.

Btw - i was just looking at SC 2020 vote tally and Trump should've won by a larger margin. A couple big counties with an increasingly young, Northern population could've cost him the state.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by TheDancinMonarch »

kalm wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:05 am
LeadBolt wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:42 am You are correct that Biden won.

The reluctance of Democrats to have an impartial investigation of whether elections in this country are fair or not, raises the question of why not.

To some, the question of how someone won and are elections being conducted equably under the law are essential.

One citizen, one vote should be the standard.


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Republicans are for impartial investigations?
Just as much as Democrats are!
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

TheDancinMonarch wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:21 am
kalm wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:05 am

Republicans are for impartial investigations?
Just as much as Democrats are!
Perhaps. But were there not a few impartial investigations done?
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

TheDancinMonarch wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:21 am
kalm wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:05 am

Republicans are for impartial investigations?
Just as much as Democrats are!
So that makes it ok? :roll:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by TheDancinMonarch »

kalm wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:47 am
TheDancinMonarch wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:21 am

Just as much as Democrats are!
Perhaps. But were there not a few impartial investigations done?
Not recently.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by TheDancinMonarch »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:03 am
TheDancinMonarch wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:21 am

Just as much as Democrats are!
So that makes it ok? :roll:
Of course not.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:52 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:31 am

He used it in the context of one person-one vote, as opposed to one person-fifty votes.
:suspicious: The "one person - fifty votes" would be like the EC. One Person (elector) - 153,900 votes (if we're using SC)

I guess he'll have to come back and tell us what he really means, hence my question. B/c it appears he's all about the Popular Vote being the way we chose the President.

Btw - i was just looking at SC 2020 vote tally and Trump should've won by a larger margin. A couple big counties with an increasingly young, Northern population could've cost him the state.
you're being purposely obtuse. As usual.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 am
Ibanez wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:52 am
:suspicious: The "one person - fifty votes" would be like the EC. One Person (elector) - 153,900 votes (if we're using SC)

I guess he'll have to come back and tell us what he really means, hence my question. B/c it appears he's all about the Popular Vote being the way we chose the President.

Btw - i was just looking at SC 2020 vote tally and Trump should've won by a larger margin. A couple big counties with an increasingly young, Northern population could've cost him the state.
you're being purposely obtuse. As usual.
No, i'm not. He used a saying that is used by proponents of abolishing the EC. You don't know his intention anymore than I.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

TheDancinMonarch wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:59 pm
kalm wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:47 am

Perhaps. But were there not a few impartial investigations done?
Not recently.
There were no impartial investigations conducted by Republican state officials?
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