2020 General Election

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:08 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:56 pm If they don't know what they are doing, where have the reports been from the auditors of the audit that are there on behalf of the AZ Secretary of State?
I don't know about reports from auditors, but she maintains a web page to report some problems. It's at https://azsos.gov/about-office/media-ce ... notes-2021 . Here is one observation of interest:
Observation: On May 26, 2021, observers noted that quality control practices to ensure data is entered correctly are still not in place rendering all of the data and findings unreliable.
I think she probably has a lot more. I think you will see a robust response if and when, as expected, this clown show partisan audit produces a report purporting to cast doubt upon the legitimacy of the certified results.
Let's hope she has something other than words, because this looks to be going to a larger investigation with lots of spotlight.

So far Hobbs has just run her mouth without any proof to back up her claims.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:59 pm
CID1990 wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:41 pm Well, at least the AZ audit actually presents some data, instead of "Trump was ahead and then suddenly he wasn't!!" as evidence of election fraud.

If the AZ findings are bogus, then it should be fairly easy to prove.
i see two reasons for not be reassured by that. The first one is that the ballots and the equipment have been compromised. I'm sure you've heard/read plenty about all of the chain of custody issues. Everything has been being handled and manipulated by an overtly partisan group.

The second is that the Airzona Republican legislators are not objective. i think there could be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus and it would be very possible that the Arizona Republican legislators would refuse to accept it.
Please explain how the ballots and equipment have been compromised. Specifics, not Hobbesque generalities.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by CID1990 »

Some clarification and context on the findings is already starting to come in:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/07/ ... ed-n402744
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by UNI88 »

SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:56 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:08 pm
I don't know about reports from auditors, but she maintains a web page to report some problems. It's at https://azsos.gov/about-office/media-ce ... notes-2021 . Here is one observation of interest:

I think she probably has a lot more. I think you will see a robust response if and when, as expected, this clown show partisan audit produces a report purporting to cast doubt upon the legitimacy of the certified results.
Let's hope she has something other than words, because this looks to be going to a larger investigation with lots of spotlight.

So far Hobbs (like Trump), has just run her (his) mouth without any proof to back up her (his) claims.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

CID1990 wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:33 pm Some clarification and context on the findings is already starting to come in:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/07/ ... ed-n402744
If what Maricopa is saying is true, that speaks poorly of the audit liaison to the AZ Senate, as Ken Bennett was AZ Secretary of State from 2009-2015. Before that, he was AZ Senate President from 2003-2007, while he represented the Senate 1st district from 1999-2007.

You would think he would help them, in order to prevent the counter claims that the auditors do not understand the process.

If he doesn't understand the process, I have a hard time believing Katie Hobbs understands the process, as she has only been AZ SOS since 2019, although her House/Senate career dates from 2011-2019.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:13 pm
SDHornet wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:47 pm

Time for a forensic audit in Georgia. Maybe Biden* can travel there and make more Jim Crow/Civil War speeches. :lol: :popcorn:

Ok. Here is the first thing I was able to find rebutting Carlson's claims:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucke ... ter-fraud/

And yes I know conservatives have attempted to discredit Snopes just like they've attempted to discredit other fact-checkers because fact checking has not worked out well for conservatives in recent years. But I predict that Snopes will be shown to be correct over time. Everything Carlson talked about has a reasonable explanation. There was no fraud. There were errors. And the errors had no impact on the final certified results. That includes the tally sheets.

The worst thing is, I think, that Carlson knew he was being misleading. That's the sad thing about the conservative media and Republican politicians at this time in history. They know they are misleading people. But they are doing it anyway because it benefits them.
Snopes? :rofl:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:01 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:59 pm

i see two reasons for not be reassured by that. The first one is that the ballots and the equipment have been compromised. I'm sure you've heard/read plenty about all of the chain of custody issues. Everything has been being handled and manipulated by an overtly partisan group.

The second is that the Airzona Republican legislators are not objective. i think there could be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus and it would be very possible that the Arizona Republican legislators would refuse to accept it.
Please explain how the ballots and equipment have been compromised. Specifics, not Hobbesque generalities.
Still waiting on how "the most secure election ever" can have equipment that was compromised. :coffee:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

SDHornet wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:10 am
JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:13 pm

Ok. Here is the first thing I was able to find rebutting Carlson's claims:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucke ... ter-fraud/

And yes I know conservatives have attempted to discredit Snopes just like they've attempted to discredit other fact-checkers because fact checking has not worked out well for conservatives in recent years. But I predict that Snopes will be shown to be correct over time. Everything Carlson talked about has a reasonable explanation. There was no fraud. There were errors. And the errors had no impact on the final certified results. That includes the tally sheets.

The worst thing is, I think, that Carlson knew he was being misleading. That's the sad thing about the conservative media and Republican politicians at this time in history. They know they are misleading people. But they are doing it anyway because it benefits them.
Snopes? :rofl:
As noted, I anticipated that kind of response. Snopes is reliable. Not perfect. Nothing is. But reliable. Your response is a manifestation of the fact that the conservative response to having Snopes expose misinformation distributed by conservatives has been to try to discredit Snopes so that, instead of having to address having their misinformation exposed as such, they can respond by doing something like posting "Snopes? :rofl:" and hope that works.

If it comes to between believing Tucker Carlson or believing Snopes, you would do well to believe Snopes.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:01 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:59 pm

i see two reasons for not be reassured by that. The first one is that the ballots and the equipment have been compromised. I'm sure you've heard/read plenty about all of the chain of custody issues. Everything has been being handled and manipulated by an overtly partisan group.

The second is that the Airzona Republican legislators are not objective. i think there could be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus and it would be very possible that the Arizona Republican legislators would refuse to accept it.
Please explain how the ballots and equipment have been compromised. Specifics, not Hobbesque generalities.
Here's something on ballots being compromised by violation of chain of custody requirements: https://www.azmirror.com/2021/05/06/ari ... n-records/.

I'll continue to look for more details on how the machines are compromised. I mean other than the fact that people responsible for elections say they have been compromised. I really shouldn't have to do that Really, when you have an obviously partisan effort like this going on and election officials are telling you there are problems, you should believe the election officials.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:33 pm Some clarification and context on the findings is already starting to come in:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/07/ ... ed-n402744
I think that article accurately describes the situation.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:31 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:59 pm

i see two reasons for not be reassured by that. The first one is that the ballots and the equipment have been compromised. I'm sure you've heard/read plenty about all of the chain of custody issues. Everything has been being handled and manipulated by an overtly partisan group.

The second is that the Airzona Republican legislators are not objective. i think there could be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus and it would be very possible that the Arizona Republican legislators would refuse to accept it.
Both of those points are immaterial.

First, there's plenty in that report that can still be chased down or verified.

Certain sections of the GOP have rejected the fact that several courts have either thrown out or rejected to examine the early wild claims about election fraud back around the turn of the year, so I'm not sure why "the right would reject it" is some kind of bugaboo for you. It just sounds like you have a peculiar lack of curiosity.
I don't think I said "the right would reject it." I think I said that I think there could be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus and it would be very possible that Arizona Republican legislators would refuse to accept it. I think that's a very reasonable outlook.

The Cyber Ninjas come out with some findings that flatter the "Trump won" myth. State election officials provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus. The Arizona Republican State Legislators refuse to accept that proof that the findings are bogus. Would that scenario surprise you?

I can't believe it would.
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Re: 2020 General Election

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JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:26 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:01 pm

Please explain how the ballots and equipment have been compromised. Specifics, not Hobbesque generalities.
Here's something on ballots being compromised by violation of chain of custody requirements: https://www.azmirror.com/2021/05/06/ari ... n-records/.

I'll continue to look for more details on how the machines are compromised. I mean other than the fact that people responsible for elections say they have been compromised. I really shouldn't have to do that Really, when you have an obviously partisan effort like this going on and election officials are telling you there are problems, you should believe the election officials.
This article means nothing.

First off, the Board of Supervisors tried to prevent the audit from happening by using the whole "we need to hold onto the ballots for 22 months" line. How does that make sense? The law doesn't dictate you can't audit the ballots, just that you can't dispose of them for 22 months after an election. A judge saw through this very weak argument and told the BOS they needed to comply.

Secondly, the audit requested to perform their work at the facility the ballots were being stored, but the BOS denied them, so they had to find a location.

In the meantime, the BOS loaded up all the ballots onto a truck and said, "where do you want these" before a location was found. Now, why did they load the trucks up before they were told a location and violate their own rules? Did the BOS properly fill out the chain of custody forms when they loaded up the truck?

Don't think the audit didn't understand what was happening here. This was the BOS pulling shenanigans so they could complain about "ballots being lost and chain of custody issues" if the audit didn't go their way. The audit has been making damn sure the chain of custody forms are being filled out correctly, not to mention the 24/7 video cameras throughout the audit.

If anything, the audit has corrected the BOS errors on chain of custody. Don't forget the former AZ Secretary of State is involved in this audit.

All this is well documented.

As for the machines, you've got to be kidding me. How in the hell can code on a machine be inspected that will break it SO badly, the certified vendor can't fix it? Makes absolutely no sense.

Once again. Absolutely no specifics are given by the BOS as to why they say such things. This is why I think it goes to a formal investigation where many more people are involved.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:31 pm Both of those points are immaterial.

First, there's plenty in that report that can still be chased down or verified.

Certain sections of the GOP have rejected the fact that several courts have either thrown out or rejected to examine the early wild claims about election fraud back around the turn of the year, so I'm not sure why "the right would reject it" is some kind of bugaboo for you. It just sounds like you have a peculiar lack of curiosity.
I don't think I said "the right would reject it." I think I said that I think there could be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus and it would be very possible that Arizona Republican legislators would refuse to accept it. I think that's a very reasonable outlook.

The Cyber Ninjas come out with some findings that flatter the "Trump won" myth. State election officials provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus. The Arizona Republican State Legislators refuse to accept that proof that the findings are bogus. Would that scenario surprise you?

I can't believe it would.
Yes, that is precisely what you said- I just condensed your blather

But even with the blather, still immaterial. If their findings are bogus or not bogus, then that can be determined

Your line of reasoning is the same as what allowed the media and your other fellow travelers to turn suggestions of s Wuhan lab leak into a dismissed conspiracy theory


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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by houndawg »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:32 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:26 am

Here's something on ballots being compromised by violation of chain of custody requirements: https://www.azmirror.com/2021/05/06/ari ... n-records/.

I'll continue to look for more details on how the machines are compromised. I mean other than the fact that people responsible for elections say they have been compromised. I really shouldn't have to do that Really, when you have an obviously partisan effort like this going on and election officials are telling you there are problems, you should believe the election officials.
This article means nothing.

First off, the Board of Supervisors tried to prevent the audit from happening by using the whole "we need to hold onto the ballots for 22 months" line. How does that make sense? The law doesn't dictate you can't audit the ballots, just that you can't dispose of them for 22 months after an election. A judge saw through this very weak argument and told the BOS they needed to comply.

Secondly, the audit requested to perform their work at the facility the ballots were being stored, but the BOS denied them, so they had to find a location.

In the meantime, the BOS loaded up all the ballots onto a truck and said, "where do you want these" before a location was found. Now, why did they load the trucks up before they were told a location and violate their own rules? Did the BOS properly fill out the chain of custody forms when they loaded up the truck?

Don't think the audit didn't understand what was happening here. This was the BOS pulling shenanigans so they could complain about "ballots being lost and chain of custody issues" if the audit didn't go their way. The audit has been making damn sure the chain of custody forms are being filled out correctly, not to mention the 24/7 video cameras throughout the audit.

If anything, the audit has corrected the BOS errors on chain of custody. Don't forget the former AZ Secretary of State is involved in this audit.

All this is well documented.

As for the machines, you've got to be kidding me. How in the hell can code on a machine be inspected that will break it SO badly, the certified vendor can't fix it? Makes absolutely no sense.

Once again. Absolutely no specifics are given by the BOS as to why they say such things. This is why I think it goes to a formal investigation where many more people are involved.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by houndawg »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:32 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:26 am

Here's something on ballots being compromised by violation of chain of custody requirements: https://www.azmirror.com/2021/05/06/ari ... n-records/.

I'll continue to look for more details on how the machines are compromised. I mean other than the fact that people responsible for elections say they have been compromised. I really shouldn't have to do that Really, when you have an obviously partisan effort like this going on and election officials are telling you there are problems, you should believe the election officials.
This article means nothing.

First off, the Board of Supervisors tried to prevent the audit from happening by using the whole "we need to hold onto the ballots for 22 months" line. How does that make sense? The law doesn't dictate you can't audit the ballots, just that you can't dispose of them for 22 months after an election. A judge saw through this very weak argument and told the BOS they needed to comply.

Secondly, the audit requested to perform their work at the facility the ballots were being stored, but the BOS denied them, so they had to find a location.

In the meantime, the BOS loaded up all the ballots onto a truck and said, "where do you want these" before a location was found. Now, why did they load the trucks up before they were told a location and violate their own rules? Did the BOS properly fill out the chain of custody forms when they loaded up the truck?

Don't think the audit didn't understand what was happening here. This was the BOS pulling shenanigans so they could complain about "ballots being lost and chain of custody issues" if the audit didn't go their way. The audit has been making damn sure the chain of custody forms are being filled out correctly, not to mention the 24/7 video cameras throughout the audit.

If anything, the audit has corrected the BOS errors on chain of custody. Don't forget the former AZ Secretary of State is involved in this audit.

All this is well documented.

As for the machines, you've got to be kidding me. How in the hell can code on a machine be inspected that will break it SO badly, the certified vendor can't fix it? Makes absolutely no sense.

Once again. Absolutely no specifics are given by the BOS as to why they say such things. This is why I think it goes to a formal investigation where many more people are involved.
"This appears to be Logan's ultimate game plan, straight out of the Kraken playbook: Drop dozens of disproven or easily disprovable charges into a report, claim there is a massive cover-up of election fraud, and wave his hands at the big pictue even as his charges are easily shown, one by one, to be lies." :coffee:

When the truth is found
to be lies
and all the joy within you dies
don't you want somebody to love?
don't you need somebody to love?
wouldn't you love somebody to love?
You better find somebody to love.
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:mrgreen:
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Re: 2020 General Election

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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:36 am
JohnStOnge wrote:
I don't think I said "the right would reject it." I think I said that I think there could be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus and it would be very possible that Arizona Republican legislators would refuse to accept it. I think that's a very reasonable outlook.

The Cyber Ninjas come out with some findings that flatter the "Trump won" myth. State election officials provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the findings are bogus. The Arizona Republican State Legislators refuse to accept that proof that the findings are bogus. Would that scenario surprise you?

I can't believe it would.
Yes, that is precisely what you said- I just condensed your blather

But even with the blather, still immaterial. If their findings are bogus or not bogus, then that can be determined

Your line of reasoning is the same as what allowed the media and your other fellow travelers to turn suggestions of s Wuhan lab leak into a dismissed conspiracy theory


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The fact that something can be determined in this atmosphere has limited significance. It has been determined to any reasonable person's satisfaction that Biden won the election and there was not sufficient fraud or anything else to change the outcome. But it obviously doesn't matter to a large number of people on the Trump side. And the Arizona Republican Legislature is on the Trump side.

I think the Wuhan lab leak thing is still very questionable. I think that most virologists and evolutionary biologists who have studied the matter think the likelihood is that it was a leap from animal to human. I think it pretty much is a conspiracy theory regardless of the fact that the Biden Administration has breathed life into it. But we'll see what happens in the long run.

Here is what I think is a very credible article on the issue: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3

I think what we have is people who want to believe it was a lab leak and will jump on any little crumb they get to keep that hypothesis alive.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by JohnStOnge »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:32 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:26 am

Here's something on ballots being compromised by violation of chain of custody requirements: https://www.azmirror.com/2021/05/06/ari ... n-records/.

I'll continue to look for more details on how the machines are compromised. I mean other than the fact that people responsible for elections say they have been compromised. I really shouldn't have to do that Really, when you have an obviously partisan effort like this going on and election officials are telling you there are problems, you should believe the election officials.
This article means nothing.

First off, the Board of Supervisors tried to prevent the audit from happening by using the whole "we need to hold onto the ballots for 22 months" line. How does that make sense? The law doesn't dictate you can't audit the ballots, just that you can't dispose of them for 22 months after an election. A judge saw through this very weak argument and told the BOS they needed to comply.

Secondly, the audit requested to perform their work at the facility the ballots were being stored, but the BOS denied them, so they had to find a location.

In the meantime, the BOS loaded up all the ballots onto a truck and said, "where do you want these" before a location was found. Now, why did they load the trucks up before they were told a location and violate their own rules? Did the BOS properly fill out the chain of custody forms when they loaded up the truck?

Don't think the audit didn't understand what was happening here. This was the BOS pulling shenanigans so they could complain about "ballots being lost and chain of custody issues" if the audit didn't go their way. The audit has been making damn sure the chain of custody forms are being filled out correctly, not to mention the 24/7 video cameras throughout the audit.

If anything, the audit has corrected the BOS errors on chain of custody. Don't forget the former AZ Secretary of State is involved in this audit.

All this is well documented.

As for the machines, you've got to be kidding me. How in the hell can code on a machine be inspected that will break it SO badly, the certified vendor can't fix it? Makes absolutely no sense.

Once again. Absolutely no specifics are given by the BOS as to why they say such things. This is why I think it goes to a formal investigation where many more people are involved.
Dude. They disrupted chain of custody. The ballots were removed from the custody of elections officials. It is what it is.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:15 am
SDHornet wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:10 am

Snopes? :rofl:
As noted, I anticipated that kind of response. Snopes is reliable. Not perfect. Nothing is. But reliable. Your response is a manifestation of the fact that the conservative response to having Snopes expose misinformation distributed by conservatives has been to try to discredit Snopes so that, instead of having to address having their misinformation exposed as such, they can respond by doing something like posting "Snopes? :rofl:" and hope that works.

If it comes to between believing Tucker Carlson or believing Snopes, you would do well to believe Snopes.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:13 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:32 pm

This article means nothing.

First off, the Board of Supervisors tried to prevent the audit from happening by using the whole "we need to hold onto the ballots for 22 months" line. How does that make sense? The law doesn't dictate you can't audit the ballots, just that you can't dispose of them for 22 months after an election. A judge saw through this very weak argument and told the BOS they needed to comply.

Secondly, the audit requested to perform their work at the facility the ballots were being stored, but the BOS denied them, so they had to find a location.

In the meantime, the BOS loaded up all the ballots onto a truck and said, "where do you want these" before a location was found. Now, why did they load the trucks up before they were told a location and violate their own rules? Did the BOS properly fill out the chain of custody forms when they loaded up the truck?

Don't think the audit didn't understand what was happening here. This was the BOS pulling shenanigans so they could complain about "ballots being lost and chain of custody issues" if the audit didn't go their way. The audit has been making damn sure the chain of custody forms are being filled out correctly, not to mention the 24/7 video cameras throughout the audit.

If anything, the audit has corrected the BOS errors on chain of custody. Don't forget the former AZ Secretary of State is involved in this audit.

All this is well documented.

As for the machines, you've got to be kidding me. How in the hell can code on a machine be inspected that will break it SO badly, the certified vendor can't fix it? Makes absolutely no sense.

Once again. Absolutely no specifics are given by the BOS as to why they say such things. This is why I think it goes to a formal investigation where many more people are involved.
Dude. They disrupted chain of custody. The ballots were removed from the custody of elections officials. It is what it is.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:44 pm
JohnStOnge wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:15 am

As noted, I anticipated that kind of response. Snopes is reliable. Not perfect. Nothing is. But reliable. Your response is a manifestation of the fact that the conservative response to having Snopes expose misinformation distributed by conservatives has been to try to discredit Snopes so that, instead of having to address having their misinformation exposed as such, they can respond by doing something like posting "Snopes? :rofl:" and hope that works.

If it comes to between believing Tucker Carlson or believing Snopes, you would do well to believe Snopes.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Well it certainly isn’t as reliable as a tweet from Shapiro, NGO, or
That one dude who tweets Covid denier stuff. :lol:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:51 pm
SDHornet wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:44 pm

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Well it certainly isn’t as reliable as a tweet from Shapiro, NGO, or
That one dude who tweets Covid denier stuff. :lol:
You mean actual data? :lol:
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:13 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:32 pm

This article means nothing.

First off, the Board of Supervisors tried to prevent the audit from happening by using the whole "we need to hold onto the ballots for 22 months" line. How does that make sense? The law doesn't dictate you can't audit the ballots, just that you can't dispose of them for 22 months after an election. A judge saw through this very weak argument and told the BOS they needed to comply.

Secondly, the audit requested to perform their work at the facility the ballots were being stored, but the BOS denied them, so they had to find a location.

In the meantime, the BOS loaded up all the ballots onto a truck and said, "where do you want these" before a location was found. Now, why did they load the trucks up before they were told a location and violate their own rules? Did the BOS properly fill out the chain of custody forms when they loaded up the truck?

Don't think the audit didn't understand what was happening here. This was the BOS pulling shenanigans so they could complain about "ballots being lost and chain of custody issues" if the audit didn't go their way. The audit has been making damn sure the chain of custody forms are being filled out correctly, not to mention the 24/7 video cameras throughout the audit.

If anything, the audit has corrected the BOS errors on chain of custody. Don't forget the former AZ Secretary of State is involved in this audit.

All this is well documented.

As for the machines, you've got to be kidding me. How in the hell can code on a machine be inspected that will break it SO badly, the certified vendor can't fix it? Makes absolutely no sense.

Once again. Absolutely no specifics are given by the BOS as to why they say such things. This is why I think it goes to a formal investigation where many more people are involved.
Dude. They disrupted chain of custody. The ballots were removed from the custody of elections officials. It is what it is.
And what happens now? They burst into flames? The ballots suddenly go bad?

Judge saw through that lame excuse.

The audit asked MCBOS would like to participate and they refused. That would have been the "Michigan answer" the story longs for.

What about MCBOS taking ballots from their storage area to the trucks for no reason? If that doesn't reek of political theater.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by BDKJMU »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:11 pm
CID1990 wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:36 am
Yes, that is precisely what you said- I just condensed your blather

But even with the blather, still immaterial. If their findings are bogus or not bogus, then that can be determined

Your line of reasoning is the same as what allowed the media and your other fellow travelers to turn suggestions of s Wuhan lab leak into a dismissed conspiracy theory


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The fact that something can be determined in this atmosphere has limited significance. It has been determined to any reasonable person's satisfaction that Biden won the election and there was not sufficient fraud or anything else to change the outcome. But it obviously doesn't matter to a large number of people on the Trump side. And the Arizona Republican Legislature is on the Trump side.

I think the Wuhan lab leak thing is still very questionable. I think that most virologists and evolutionary biologists who have studied the matter think the likelihood is that it was a leap from animal to human. I think it pretty much is a conspiracy theory regardless of the fact that the Biden Administration has breathed life into it. But we'll see what happens in the long run.

Here is what I think is a very credible article on the issue: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3

I think what we have is people who want to believe it was a lab leak and will jump on any little crumb they get to keep that hypothesis alive.
Which very well could have been in the lab.
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Re: 2020 General Election

Post by SeattleGriz »

JohnStOnge wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:11 pm
CID1990 wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:36 am
Yes, that is precisely what you said- I just condensed your blather

But even with the blather, still immaterial. If their findings are bogus or not bogus, then that can be determined

Your line of reasoning is the same as what allowed the media and your other fellow travelers to turn suggestions of s Wuhan lab leak into a dismissed conspiracy theory


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The fact that something can be determined in this atmosphere has limited significance. It has been determined to any reasonable person's satisfaction that Biden won the election and there was not sufficient fraud or anything else to change the outcome. But it obviously doesn't matter to a large number of people on the Trump side. And the Arizona Republican Legislature is on the Trump side.

I think the Wuhan lab leak thing is still very questionable. I think that most virologists and evolutionary biologists who have studied the matter think the likelihood is that it was a leap from animal to human. I think it pretty much is a conspiracy theory regardless of the fact that the Biden Administration has breathed life into it. But we'll see what happens in the long run.

Here is what I think is a very credible article on the issue: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3

I think what we have is people who want to believe it was a lab leak and will jump on any little crumb they get to keep that hypothesis alive.
Follow the money StOnge. Didn't you see how many in the science field did an abrupt turnaround? They knew their funding was at risk of being cancelled if they supported the lab leak theory.

There are two reasons. One, they would piss of Fauci and subsequently EcoHealth Alliance and lose gubmint money and secondly, the public. Don't think the virology field isn't worried about work in their field if it comes out as escaping from a lab. There could be huge restrictions placed on their research.
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