2020 General Election

[AZGrizFan]

Pennsylvania, Wisconsin Georgia.

Trump flips those, it's game on!

The most important point is that if Trump were to flip those three States it'd mean we'd be in a crisis as a country because he would've succeeded in corrupting our representative system of government. We would be in banana republic territory where the guy who clearly lost a free and fair election managed to stay in the game to stay in power even though The People clearly indicated they want him out.

You should not be hoping for that sort of thing if you love your Country. You should be at the front of the line saying we should all hope nothing like that happens.

I agree. I HOPE nothing like that happens. But if they discover fraud and it DOES happen, we’ve got a different set of problems we’re going to have to deal with as a country.

[kalm]

Pennsylvania, Wisconsin Georgia.

Trump flips those, it's game on!

Ain’t gonna happen.

[SeattleGriz]

Pennsylvania, Wisconsin Georgia.

Trump flips those, it's game on!

Ain’t gonna happen.

You said Trump was dropping out.

[kalm]

Ain’t gonna happen.

You said Trump was dropping out.

EWU got blown out by the Cats week 4 of 2010.

[SeattleGriz]

5 More Ways Joe Biden Magically Outperformed Election Norms
Surely the journalist class should be intrigued by the historic implausibility of Joe Biden’s victory. That they are not is curious, to say the least.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5- ... ion-norms/

[AZGrizFan]

5 More Ways Joe Biden Magically Outperformed Election Norms
Surely the journalist class should be intrigued by the historic implausibility of Joe Biden’s victory. That they are not is curious, to say the least.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5- ... ion-norms/

“Implausibility”.....that’s putting it mildly.

[BDKJMU]

5 More Ways Joe Biden Magically Outperformed Election Norms
Surely the journalist class should be intrigued by the historic implausibility of Joe Biden’s victory. That they are not is curious, to say the least.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5- ... ion-norms/

Yep, about statistically impossible for the below to happen.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bellwether ... iwIsirhnnd

[JohnStOnge]

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5- ... ion-norms/

Yep, about statistically impossible for the below to happen.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bellwether ... iwIsirhnnd

No it's not. That is pretty much meaningless.

[JohnStOnge]

5 More Ways Joe Biden Magically Outperformed Election Norms
Surely the journalist class should be intrigued by the historic implausibility of Joe Biden’s victory. That they are not is curious, to say the least.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5- ... ion-norms/

That is pretty much a big nothing burger. Also an illustration of why you should not consider The Federalist to be a credible source.

[UNI88]

Yep, about statistically impossible for the below to happen.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bellwether ... iwIsirhnnd

No it's not. That is pretty much meaningless.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5- ... ion-norms/

That is pretty much a big nothing burger. Also an illustration of why you should not consider The Federalist to be a credible source.

Why?

Can you demonstrate your superior intellect by explaining why these are meaningless or a nothing burger in a brief and unbiased way?

There are statistical anomalies with this election. They might be explained by the unusual nature of the election (pandemic, polarized nature of feelings about Trump, etc.) but is that enough to write them off? Doesn't it make sense to investigate them?

[BDKJMU]

Yep, about statistically impossible for the below to happen.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bellwether ... iwIsirhnnd

No it's not. That is pretty much meaningless.

Out of 3,000+ counties in the US, you had 19 which had correctly pick the winner in the last 10 elections going back to 1980. If Vegas had put odds on those counties, the odds 18 of those 19 would go for the loser would be like a million to 1..

[BDKJMU]

[JohnStOnge]

The most important point is that if Trump were to flip those three States it'd mean we'd be in a crisis as a country because he would've succeeded in corrupting our representative system of government. We would be in banana republic territory where the guy who clearly lost a free and fair election managed to stay in the game to stay in power even though The People clearly indicated they want him out.

You should not be hoping for that sort of thing if you love your Country. You should be at the front of the line saying we should all hope nothing like that happens.

I agree. I HOPE nothing like that happens. But if they discover fraud and it DOES happen, we’ve got a different set of problems we’re going to have to deal with as a country.

The only fraud issue we're dealing with is that Trump is a fraud. Any reasonable person knows that Biden won the election. The only question is whether the completely corrupt President we have right now and the completely corrupt Republican Party can put us into banana republic territory.

[JohnStOnge]

No it's not. That is pretty much meaningless.

Out of 3,000+ counties in the US, you had 19 which had correctly pick the winner in the last 15 elections going back to 1960. If Vegas had put odds on those counties, the odds 18 of those 19 would go for the loser would be like a million to 1..

This is like the thing where you listen to football people say "In 19 of the last 20 situations where Buffalo was a 7 point underdog and it was the full moon Buffalo has covered." It's meaningless.

I've listened to that kind of stuff over many years as a football fan and shaken my head every time I've heard it.

BTW, overall, the oddsmakers had Biden as a 2:1 favorite.

[AZGrizFan]

I agree. I HOPE nothing like that happens. But if they discover fraud and it DOES happen, we’ve got a different set of problems we’re going to have to deal with as a country.

The only fraud issue we're dealing with is that Trump is a fraud. Any reasonable person knows that Biden won the election. The only question is whether the completely corrupt President we have right now and the completely corrupt Republican Party can put us into banana republic territory.

You keep saying that shit like repeating it 1,000 times automatically makes it true.

newsflash: Not true.

[JohnStOnge]

Let me repeat: If you look at the RCP averages of polls there are only two cases in which the candidate with at least a slight edge in the polling didn't win. Trump won Florida when the polling said Biden was a slight favorite and Biden won Georgia when the polling said Trump was a slight favorite. The idea that something there is something REALLY unusual that suggests something nefarious about Biden winning is just ridiculous. Just stop. Biden won. The Will of the People is for Biden to be President. That's the case even when you use the Electoral College system that really ought to be discarded.

What we're going through now is more evidence that the Electoral College system should be discarded, BTW. We wouldn't have to be going through this crap where a corrupt President is trying to corruptly flip individual States if we didn't have it. The Presidency is the one office that represents all of the people and the vote among all of the People should determine who the President is.

We can protect the rights of all the ignorant rednecks with the Senate. That is enough.

[JohnStOnge]

The only fraud issue we're dealing with is that Trump is a fraud. Any reasonable person knows that Biden won the election. The only question is whether the completely corrupt President we have right now and the completely corrupt Republican Party can put us into banana republic territory.

You keep saying that shit like repeating it 1,000 times automatically makes it true.

newsflash: Not true.

It's true and you know it is true. That or you have some serious detachment from reality problems.

[UNI88]

The only fraud issue we're dealing with is that Trump is a fraud. Any reasonable person knows that Biden won the election. The only question is whether the completely corrupt President we have right now and the completely corrupt Republican Party can put us into banana republic territory.

You keep saying that shit like repeating it 1,000 times automatically makes it true.

newsflash: Not true.

Which points aren't true?

• Trump is a fraud - True
• Biden won the election - Probably, but confirming the results is actually good for Democracy.
• Completely corrupt President - True but Hillary was and would have been just as corrupt.
• Completely corrupt Republican Party - True but the Democratic Party is just as corrupt

John's statements aren't wrong, they're just one-sided and naive because he is it too blind with hatred for Trump to realize that the Democrats aren't any better than the Republicans.

[JohnStOnge]

I have been looking at the question of whether there are valid "probability" arguments for saying Trump really won. Here is a fact check on the "Benford’s Law" angle:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN27Q3AI

Dr Jen Golbeck, Professor of the College of Information Studies at the University of Maryland (www.cs.umd.edu/~golbeck/), said in a thread on Twitter (here) that the claims in the social media posts are false, citing the above article. She told Reuters, “There is just not solid evidence that Benford works in elections at all. The results are profoundly mixed. Which means it’s not evidence of anything.”

That's just one quote. Just stop with this stuff. Just deal with the reality. More people voted for Biden nationally. More people voted for Biden in Pennsylvania. More people voted for Biden in Michigan. More people voted for Biden in Wisconsin. More people voted for Biden in Arizona. More people voted for Biden in Nevada. More people voted for Biden in Georgia.

That is what happened. Stop being in denial of reality.

[BDKJMU]

Out of 3,000+ counties in the US, you had 19 which had correctly pick the winner in the last 15 elections going back to 1960. If Vegas had put odds on those counties, the odds 18 of those 19 would go for the loser would be like a million to 1..

This is like the thing where you listen to football people say "In 19 of the last 20 situations where Buffalo was a 7 point underdog and it was the full moon Buffalo has covered." It's meaningless.

I've listened to that kind of stuff over many years as a football fan and shaken my head every time I've heard it.

BTW, overall, the oddsmakers had Biden as a 2:1 favorite.

But there’s no way they had Trump winning 18 of those 19 counties. Its like saying the team that was favored by a TD won, but were outgained by 500 yards. That’s like a million to one.

[JohnStOnge]

You keep saying that shit like repeating it 1,000 times automatically makes it true.

newsflash: Not true.

Which points aren't true?

• Trump is a fraud - True
• Biden won the election - Probably, but confirming the results is actually good for Democracy.
• Completely corrupt President - True but Hillary was and would have been just as corrupt.
• Completely corrupt Republican Party - True but the Democratic Party is just as corrupt

John's statements aren't wrong, they're just one-sided and naive because he is it too blind with hatred for Trump to realize that the Democrats aren't any better than the Republicans.

That Biden won the election is not a "Probably." He won. If Trump succeeds in overturning the results we are in banana republic territory.

Hillary Clinton is not and has never been as corrupt as Trump is.

At this time in history the Democratic Party is not as corrupt as the Republican Party is.

And we are at a time in history where having people think there is equivalency between the corruption levels of the two major parties is really sad because it is obvious that, right now, the Republican Party is by far the worse of the two. We are in the middle of the Republian Party trying to overturn the results of a free and fair election during which the Democrat won and it was not really that close. The Democrat Party has NEVER done anything like this. What the Republican Party is doing now is doing tremendous damage to our system of representative government.

It's just amazing to me that, under the circumstances we have going on now, anybody is saying "Oh well they are both bad." No. It' not like that. What we see going on with the Republican Party right now is how Italy got Mussolini during the 20th century. It should not at ALL be considered tolerable in ANY sense.

[JohnStOnge]

This is like the thing where you listen to football people say "In 19 of the last 20 situations where Buffalo was a 7 point underdog and it was the full moon Buffalo has covered." It's meaningless.

I've listened to that kind of stuff over many years as a football fan and shaken my head every time I've heard it.

BTW, overall, the oddsmakers had Biden as a 2:1 favorite.

But there’s no way they had Trump winning 18 of those 19 counties. Its like saying the team that was favored by a TD won, but were outgained by 500 yards. That’s like a million to one.

No it's not. It's ridiculous to say you can predict who is going to win base on what happens in 18 counties.

[UNI88]

Which points aren't true?

• Trump is a fraud - True
• Biden won the election - Probably, but confirming the results is actually good for Democracy.
• Completely corrupt President - True but Hillary was and would have been just as corrupt.
• Completely corrupt Republican Party - True but the Democratic Party is just as corrupt

John's statements aren't wrong, they're just one-sided and naive because he is it too blind with hatred for Trump to realize that the Democrats aren't any better than the Republicans.

That Biden won the election is not a "Probably." He won. If Trump succeeds in overturning the results we are in banana republic territory.

Hillary Clinton is not and has never been as corrupt as Trump is.

At this time in history the Democratic Party is not as corrupt as the Republican Party is.

And we are at a time in history where having people think there is equivalency between the corruption levels of the two major parties is really sad because it is obvious that, right now, the Republican Party is by far the worse of the two. We are in the middle of the Republian Party trying to overturn the results of a free and fair election during which the Democrat won and it was not really that close. The Democrat Party has NEVER done anything like this. What the Republican Party is doing now is doing tremendous damage to our system of representative government.

It's just amazing to me that, under the circumstances we have going on now, anybody is saying "Oh well they are both bad." No. It' not like that. What we see going on with the Republican Party right now is how Italy got Mussolini during the 20th century. It should not at ALL be considered tolerable in ANY sense.

This is all your opinion. It is not fact no matter how strenuously you argue for it.

[JohnStOnge]

I lost track of where it was but in one of the links posted I saw a claim that Trump won the highest percentage of the non White vote in 60 years or something like that. That is false. I just went back to G.W. Bush in 2004 because he was the last one before Obama and also I knew he got a relatively higher percentage of the hispanic vote. He lost among non Whites by 70% to 28%. That's 42 percentage points. Trump lost among non Whites by 71% to 26%. That's 45 percentage points.

It's an issue because the person who wrote it was making the argument that Trump's OUTSTANDING performance among non Whites was a factor in believing something was amiss about Biden winning. But it was a false statement. Amazing how often that happens with conservatives nowadays.

[JohnStOnge]

That Biden won the election is not a "Probably." He won. If Trump succeeds in overturning the results we are in banana republic territory.

Hillary Clinton is not and has never been as corrupt as Trump is.

At this time in history the Democratic Party is not as corrupt as the Republican Party is.

And we are at a time in history where having people think there is equivalency between the corruption levels of the two major parties is really sad because it is obvious that, right now, the Republican Party is by far the worse of the two. We are in the middle of the Republian Party trying to overturn the results of a free and fair election during which the Democrat won and it was not really that close. The Democrat Party has NEVER done anything like this. What the Republican Party is doing now is doing tremendous damage to our system of representative government.

It's just amazing to me that, under the circumstances we have going on now, anybody is saying "Oh well they are both bad." No. It' not like that. What we see going on with the Republican Party right now is how Italy got Mussolini during the 20th century. It should not at ALL be considered tolerable in ANY sense.

This is all your opinion. It is not fact no matter how strenuously you argue for it.

It is a fact that we now have a major political party trying to overturn the obvious results of a free and fair election. That is not an opinion from the standpoint of any reasonable person. That is what is going on.