FIFY for accuracyHI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:35 amNo, they're winning the ignorant by promising free shit at the expense of others...in the name of equality.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:35 pm The difference is socialists democrats are winning people over with ideas and trying to change the system within a legal framework, not undermining and threatening the representative process we've all agreed upon.
We can certainly argue the long-term implications of a socialist economy, but winning with ideas is how democracy works.
Trumpism did that at first, then when people rejected its governance, it tried to burn the whole thing down. That's fascism.
Cancel Culture thread
Re: Cancel Culture thread
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
Re: Cancel Culture thread
Who whoa. The Squad are not center-left. Sanders is not the center. That's just wrong. There is nothing NOTHING centrist/moderate about their beliefs at all.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:07 am Extreme left.
Here's a political guide for you:
Far-right: Trump, Hawley, Cruz, Paul (BDK)
Right: Romney, Cheney, Murkowski, McConnell (JSO)
Center-Right: Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Obama (You)
Center: Sanders, Warren, Harris, Gillibrand (Kalm)
Center-Left: Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, Tlaib, Bowman (Me)
Left: No one. Someone like Floyd B. Wilson (real socialist) would occupy this.
Far-left: No one. Anarchists, communists, and separatists would occupy this.
Democratic Socialism (which is actually Social Liberalism in the US) isn't a scary word for people my age. We're just trying to bring the United States back in line with its Western peers on the global overton window and return it to its classical liberal roots.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
Re: Cancel Culture thread
Proving my point. The American window is skewed so far to the right with regards to classical liberal economics that we think someone with Sanders' ideology wouldn't be a moderate or center-left politician among our Western counterparts.Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:27 amWho whoa. The Squad are not center-left. Sanders is not the center. That's just wrong. There is nothing NOTHING centrist/moderate about their beliefs at all.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:07 am Extreme left.
Here's a political guide for you:
Far-right: Trump, Hawley, Cruz, Paul (BDK)
Right: Romney, Cheney, Murkowski, McConnell (JSO)
Center-Right: Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Obama (You)
Center: Sanders, Warren, Harris, Gillibrand (Kalm)
Center-Left: Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, Tlaib, Bowman (Me)
Left: No one. Someone like Floyd B. Wilson (real socialist) would occupy this.
Far-left: No one. Anarchists, communists, and separatists would occupy this.
Democratic Socialism (which is actually Social Liberalism in the US) isn't a scary word for people my age. We're just trying to bring the United States back in line with its Western peers on the global overton window and return it to its classical liberal roots.
The majority of our politicians occupy the "center-right, right, and far-right" spectrum compared to our peers (which makes sense since we've mostly been doing free-market economics for 40+ years now).
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
i.e., Socialism. And that's what "society" was doing on 1/6. Pushing back and protecting itself from ideologies that threaten how it functions.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:42 pm Society cancels Nazis and other far-right political ideologies, so I'm not sure why we shouldn't cancel Trumpism too. It's an economic and social threat to our Republic which was confirmed on January 6th. It's not a movement that will be looked at kindly in 20+ years.
Trump and his people can still speak freely, run for office, spend money, etc. They still have all rights afforded to them by law, but society as a whole has its own right - even an obligation - to protect itself from ideologies which threaten how it functions. Everyone can have their own ideas, but other people have the right to push back when those ideas are taken too far.
See how easy this word salad game is?
But hey, keep digging, junior.
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
Here's a political guide for you:Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:27 amWho whoa. The Squad are not center-left. Sanders is not the center. That's just wrong. There is nothing NOTHING centrist/moderate about their beliefs at all.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:07 am Extreme left.
Here's a political guide for you:
Far-right: Trump, Hawley, Cruz, Paul (BDK)
Right: Romney, Cheney, Murkowski, McConnell (JSO)
Center-Right: Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Obama (You)
Center: Sanders, Warren, Harris, Gillibrand (Kalm)
Center-Left: Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, Tlaib, Bowman (Me)
Left: No one. Someone like Floyd B. Wilson (real socialist) would occupy this.
Far-left: No one. Anarchists, communists, and separatists would occupy this.
Democratic Socialism (which is actually Social Liberalism in the US) isn't a scary word for people my age. We're just trying to bring the United States back in line with its Western peers on the global overton window and return it to its classical liberal roots.
Romney, Cheney are Center Right
Biden, Clinton, JSO and Obama are Center Left
OAC, Omar are Left
Rioter and looters Far Left or far right
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
"classic liberal economics". You define that as socialism? Or what? Because there's no fucking way the Squad is anywhere near "center". They can't even see "left" from where they're standing.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:42 amProving my point. The American window is skewed so far to the right with regards to classical liberal economics that we think someone with Sanders' ideology wouldn't be a moderate or center-left politician among our Western counterparts.
The majority of our politicians occupy the "center-right, right, and far-right" spectrum compared to our peers (which makes sense since we've mostly been doing free-market economics for 40+ years now).
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
Well, they've burned down half of America (as long as we're going with hyperbole here), and to infiltrate law enforcement they'd actually have to WORK, so that strategy ain't gonna fly.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:27 pm Call me when the antifascists try to storm our Legislative branch, capture and kill elected representatives, stop the democratic process, and implement a fascist dictatorship all because their guy lost. Call me when they've infiltrated our law enforcement.
You have nothing tangible to stand on anymore: only lies, hypocrisy, and fascist tendencies. At least some who joined the insurrection - and now face the justice system - finally realize the conman was stringing them all along too. Better late than never.
But hey, keep defending someone who couldn't give a sh*t about you; we'll all be here when you're ready to leave the cult. The people and parts of society which reject Trumpism aren't as scary as he and his friends make them out to be.
Here's a hint for you: If they were "winning over Americans with ideas", they wouldn't have to riot and burn and loot to do it.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
Hot damn! Trip is savage!∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:43 amGod forbid the taxes we pay go back into providing services for the average American.
Didn't realize the point of collective governance was corporate welfare and siphoning labor value upwards. How dare I think the goal of human progress and capitalist theory is to increase quality of life and social efficiencies for all, and leave the world better for our children.
Cancel culture is a new name for an old process. It occurs in everyday lives and in politics and it can come from both directions or from within. See the cancelling attempts made at RINOs.
Cancelling Trumpism (not all 74 million voters need to be cancelled) is the quickest way to prevent the internal party rift from splitting wide open into an insurmountable gash. There are already large meetings underfoot between moderate conservative power brokers on whether to split off or desperately attempt to save the party from Trumpism through coalition building.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/ ... w--7kBg3Rc
Some of you are conflating cancel culture with only left wing authoritarianism and conflating left wing civil unrest with fascism.
My advice to the right...
1). Destroy the cult of Trumpism by defanging its leader first.
2). Honestly embrace real populism that engages the disenfranchised working class through policies that increase economic security.
3). Appeal to moderates at every turn. Trump won the 2016 moderate vote in states that flipped in 2020 by 10-12 points and lost it last year in the same states by 5-9 points. His performance with college educated white males was similar. This article suggests there’s still some hope for a R resurgence but yes...they’re going to have to put crazy back in the bottle.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ght-think/
Re: Cancel Culture thread
"The Squad" aren't Democrat Socialists (nor is Sanders or most of the progressive caucus). They are Social Democrats who promote a regulatory capitalist economy which returns back most of the labor value to the laborers.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:44 am"classic liberal economics". You define that as socialism? Or what? Because there's no fucking way the Squad is anywhere near "center". They can't even see "left" from where they're standing.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:42 am
Proving my point. The American window is skewed so far to the right with regards to classical liberal economics that we think someone with Sanders' ideology wouldn't be a moderate or center-left politician among our Western counterparts.
The majority of our politicians occupy the "center-right, right, and far-right" spectrum compared to our peers (which makes sense since we've mostly been doing free-market economics for 40+ years now).
This is way more in line with how John Locke - the father of classical liberalism - saw economics play out.
If anything, the left is returning us to our roots as a nation: populism built on the back of regulatory capitalism.
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
And still on the right side when it comes to Trump.
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
They burned down half of America!?!AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:46 amWell, they've burned down half of America (as long as we're going with hyperbole here), and to infiltrate law enforcement they'd actually have to WORK, so that strategy ain't gonna fly.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:27 pm Call me when the antifascists try to storm our Legislative branch, capture and kill elected representatives, stop the democratic process, and implement a fascist dictatorship all because their guy lost. Call me when they've infiltrated our law enforcement.
You have nothing tangible to stand on anymore: only lies, hypocrisy, and fascist tendencies. At least some who joined the insurrection - and now face the justice system - finally realize the conman was stringing them all along too. Better late than never.
But hey, keep defending someone who couldn't give a sh*t about you; we'll all be here when you're ready to leave the cult. The people and parts of society which reject Trumpism aren't as scary as he and his friends make them out to be.
Here's a hint for you: If they were "winning over Americans with ideas", they wouldn't have to riot and burn and loot to do it.
Jeez...I guess I gotta get out more!
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
Concern regarding purity movements is valid.Ibanez wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:15 amGoing after someone and their livelihood because they are Republican (or Democrat) isn't going to end well.
Again, this isn't about shunning someone like Charles Manson or some crazy cult leader who is a danger to others. Today's cancel culture is about shunning BDK on the fact that he voted for Trump. We shouldn't be shunning people b/c they make bad decisions.
BLM riots were a gift to the Republicans. MAGA riots are a gift to Dems.
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
That's like saying that Florida is far north because you set the Equator at the Tropic of Capricorn.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:07 am Extreme left.
Here's a political guide for you:
Far-right: Trump, Hawley, Cruz, Paul (BDK)
Right: Romney, Cheney, Murkowski, McConnell (JSO)
Center-Right: Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Obama (You)
Center: Sanders, Warren, Harris, Gillibrand (Kalm)
Center-Left: Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, Tlaib, Bowman (Me)
Left: No one. Someone like Floyd B. Wilson (real socialist) would occupy this.
Far-left: No one. Anarchists, communists, and separatists would occupy this.
Democratic Socialism (which is actually Social Liberalism in the US) isn't a scary word for people my age. We're just trying to bring the United States back in line with its Western peers on the global overton window and return it to its classical liberal roots.
And don't give me a compared to our peers, Europe or the rest of the First World argument. The people who founded the USA came here to get away from oppressive governments. The people who immigrated here after, came here because of opportunities and freedom. We're not Europe and we don't need to emulate Europe.
Trump and AOChe and the Squad are two sides of the same coin. Trump and his supporters are not Far-Right they're Populist-Right. AOChe, the squad and their supporters are not Center-Left, they're Populist-Left. Both represent people who feel disenfranchised and taken for granted by their party. One side doesn't trust government at all, the other side trusts government too much.
What you call Right is Establishment-Right and what you call Center-Right is Establishment-Left.
Last edited by UNI88 on Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
Re: Cancel Culture thread
There is the fault in your analysis. You are comparing American politicians to "our peers." Who are these peers and why are THEY the benchmark?∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:42 amProving my point. The American window is skewed so far to the right with regards to classical liberal economics that we think someone with Sanders' ideology wouldn't be a moderate or center-left politician among our Western counterparts.
The majority of our politicians occupy the "center-right, right, and far-right" spectrum compared to our peers (which makes sense since we've mostly been doing free-market economics for 40+ years now).
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
Re: Cancel Culture thread
Stop right there. AOC is a Democratic Socialist.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:56 am"The Squad" aren't Democrat Socialists (nor is Sanders or most of the progressive caucus). They are Social Democrats who promote a regulatory capitalist economy which returns back most of the labor value to the laborers.
This is way more in line with how John Locke - the father of classical liberalism - saw economics play out.
If anything, the left is returning us to our roots as a nation: populism built on the back of regulatory capitalism.
https://www.businessinsider.com/alexand ... ans-2019-3
https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/8 ... acobin-dsa
In addition to Ocasio-Cortez, Sen. Bernie Sanders and now New York gubernatorial candidate Cynthia Nixon have claimed the label
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
Bernie Sanders long described himself as a Democratic Socialist.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:56 am"The Squad" aren't Democrat Socialists (nor is Sanders or most of the progressive caucus). They are Social Democrats who promote a regulatory capitalist economy which returns back most of the labor value to the laborers.
This is way more in line with how John Locke - the father of classical liberalism - saw economics play out.
If anything, the left is returning us to our roots as a nation: populism built on the back of regulatory capitalism.
AOChe is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. From their website:
Getting rid of private enterprise is a form of socialism not regulatory capitalism.Social ownership could take many forms, such as worker-owned cooperatives or publicly owned enterprises managed by workers and consumer representatives. Democratic socialists favor as much decentralization as possible. While the large concentrations of capital in industries such as energy and steel may necessitate some form of state ownership, many consumer-goods industries might be best run as cooperatives.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
Perhaps you missed the (hyperbole) comment?kalm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:58 amThey burned down half of America!?!AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:46 am
Well, they've burned down half of America (as long as we're going with hyperbole here), and to infiltrate law enforcement they'd actually have to WORK, so that strategy ain't gonna fly.
Here's a hint for you: If they were "winning over Americans with ideas", they wouldn't have to riot and burn and loot to do it.
Jeez...I guess I gotta get out more!
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Re: Cancel Culture thread
AOC and Tlaib are the closest to real socialists, so I'll amend my prior statement and you can move them left.
Bernie is not a socialist despite whatever he wants to call himself. Progressive? Yes. Socialist? No.
Bernie is not a socialist despite whatever he wants to call himself. Progressive? Yes. Socialist? No.
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
lol. Savage. Yeah. How about retarded?kalm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:54 amHot damn! Trip is savage!∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:43 am
God forbid the taxes we pay go back into providing services for the average American.
Didn't realize the point of collective governance was corporate welfare and siphoning labor value upwards. How dare I think the goal of human progress and capitalist theory is to increase quality of life and social efficiencies for all, and leave the world better for our children.
Hey Trip, how much of the last stimulus package was "going back to provide services for the average American"? And how much was going to grease the palms of foreign countries and foreign leaders? How much of our taxes go overseas in the form of "foreign aid"?
America is the only country stupid enough to spend money it doesn't have (borrowing it from China) to give it to people who don't need it, for a favored position that never seems to materialize. Meanwhile, "services for the average American" continue to spiral down the shithole.
But hey, gender studies in Afghanistan is just too damned important to pass up. And how would Saudi Arabia get by without that $1.4 billion bailout?
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Re: Cancel Culture thread
China holds 1T in American debt. The vast majority of it is held by you and me because we keep borrowing from ourselves and our children.
We'd have no deficit if we actually taxed wealth properly (this includes corporations, not just individuals). There's enough money going around to properly fund everything AND increase benefits. Don't worry, you're not the target in all these changes.
Also foreign aid is necessary for continued global diplomacy (ask China who's outspending us now in order to increase its influence). The investments we put into foreign nations is miniscule compared to the wealth we're returning from globalized trade. It's just that when that investment we paid into come back home, it's not going back to you and me...it goes to the corporate welfare queens.
We'd have no deficit if we actually taxed wealth properly (this includes corporations, not just individuals). There's enough money going around to properly fund everything AND increase benefits. Don't worry, you're not the target in all these changes.
Also foreign aid is necessary for continued global diplomacy (ask China who's outspending us now in order to increase its influence). The investments we put into foreign nations is miniscule compared to the wealth we're returning from globalized trade. It's just that when that investment we paid into come back home, it's not going back to you and me...it goes to the corporate welfare queens.
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Cancel Culture thread
Truth bombs, right here. I hope you dropped the mic after this post.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:31 amlol. Savage. Yeah. How about retarded?
Hey Trip, how much of the last stimulus package was "going back to provide services for the average American"? And how much was going to grease the palms of foreign countries and foreign leaders? How much of our taxes go overseas in the form of "foreign aid"?
America is the only country stupid enough to spend money it doesn't have (borrowing it from China) to give it to people who don't need it, for a favored position that never seems to materialize. Meanwhile, "services for the average American" continue to spiral down the shithole.
But hey, gender studies in Afghanistan is just too damned important to pass up. And how would Saudi Arabia get by without that $1.4 billion bailout?
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
"tax wealth properly". Spoken like a true socialist.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:46 am China holds 1T in American debt. The vast majority of it is held by you and me because we keep borrowing from ourselves and our children.
We'd have no deficit if we actually taxed wealth properly (this includes corporations, not just individuals). There's enough money going around to properly fund everything AND increase benefits. Don't worry, you're not the target in all these changes.
Also foreign aid is necessary for continued global diplomacy. Ask China who's outspending us now in order to increase its influence. The investments we put into foreign nations is nothing compared to how much wealth we return from globalized trade.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:07 am Extreme left.
Here's a political guide for you:
Far-right: Trump, Hawley, Cruz, Paul (BDK)
Right: Romney, Cheney, Murkowski, McConnell (JSO)
Center-Right: Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Obama (You)
Center: Sanders, Warren, Harris, Gillibrand (Kalm)
Center-Left: Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, Tlaib, Bowman (Me)
Left: No one. Someone like Floyd B. Wilson (real socialist) would occupy this.
Far-left: No one. Anarchists, communists, and separatists would occupy this.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions...But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: Cancel Culture thread
Careful there, Hoss. Z is sounding like a progressive.Ibanez wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:48 amTruth bombs, right here. I hope you dropped the mic after this post.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:31 am
lol. Savage. Yeah. How about retarded?
Hey Trip, how much of the last stimulus package was "going back to provide services for the average American"? And how much was going to grease the palms of foreign countries and foreign leaders? How much of our taxes go overseas in the form of "foreign aid"?
America is the only country stupid enough to spend money it doesn't have (borrowing it from China) to give it to people who don't need it, for a favored position that never seems to materialize. Meanwhile, "services for the average American" continue to spiral down the shithole.
But hey, gender studies in Afghanistan is just too damned important to pass up. And how would Saudi Arabia get by without that $1.4 billion bailout?
Re: Cancel Culture thread
Spoken like someone who has an understanding of basic economics. Spoken like someone who understands the market isn't a zero-sum game. Spoken like someone who understands the ROI increases exponentially when you return money back into the thing making you money.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:50 am"tax wealth properly". Spoken like a true socialist.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:46 am China holds 1T in American debt. The vast majority of it is held by you and me because we keep borrowing from ourselves and our children.
We'd have no deficit if we actually taxed wealth properly (this includes corporations, not just individuals). There's enough money going around to properly fund everything AND increase benefits. Don't worry, you're not the target in all these changes.
Also foreign aid is necessary for continued global diplomacy. Ask China who's outspending us now in order to increase its influence. The investments we put into foreign nations is nothing compared to how much wealth we return from globalized trade.