Hey Seattle and Portland.....

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by JALMOND »

Having lived in the area for 25+ years now, I can say that, a typical summer there are about 2-3 protests in Portland per week. Almost all are peaceful and very few result in any form of looting or violence. This federal "presence" is causing more agitation than necessary, with these federal "officers" utilizing brute strength in the streets. For what reason, I don't know. In the past, whatever protest that was going on, you could still go about your business downtown. Tri-met would still operate, using buses if the protests were blocking the routes. My co-worker told me that they were on one of these such buses and two white vans with Florida plates stopped it. Officials rushed the bus and ordered everyone inside to remove their masks. When told that wearing a mask on the bus was required, one of the officials got in their face and said "Shut the f*** up!!! Your requirement doesn't mean sh** here. We are the Feds!"

One instance I personally witnessed was two food trucks were operating in the Park Blocks near campus when two white vans came rushing up to them. Officials drug out the workers, handcuffed them, and put them in the back of one of the vans. That van left and the other officers stayed behind to "secure" the area, which I guess meant to help themselves to the food that was in both food trucks. After about 20 minutes, they took the rest of the food and left, leaving the trucks opened and unlocked.

These people are just escalating an already tense situation and need to go back to where they came from. Leave the enforcement to the local officials. If they need your help, they will ask for it.

Instead of following the news, go down and take a look for yourselves. You will feel like I do.

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by UNI88 »

JALMOND wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:57 am
Having lived in the area for 25+ years now, I can say that, a typical summer there are about 2-3 protests in Portland per week. Almost all are peaceful and very few result in any form of looting or violence. This federal "presence" is causing more agitation than necessary, with these federal "officers" utilizing brute strength in the streets. For what reason, I don't know. In the past, whatever protest that was going on, you could still go about your business downtown. Tri-met would still operate, using buses if the protests were blocking the routes. My co-worker told me that they were on one of these such buses and two white vans with Florida plates stopped it. Officials rushed the bus and ordered everyone inside to remove their masks. When told that wearing a mask on the bus was required, one of the officials got in their face and said "Shut the f*** up!!! Your requirement doesn't mean sh** here. We are the Feds!"

One instance I personally witnessed was two food trucks were operating in the Park Blocks near campus when two white vans came rushing up to them. Officials drug out the workers, handcuffed them, and put them in the back of one of the vans. That van left and the other officers stayed behind to "secure" the area, which I guess meant to help themselves to the food that was in both food trucks. After about 20 minutes, they took the rest of the food and left, leaving the trucks opened and unlocked.

These people are just escalating an already tense situation and need to go back to where they came from. Leave the enforcement to the local officials. If they need your help, they will ask for it.

Instead of following the news, go down and take a look for yourselves. You will feel like I do.
I'm not going downtown to take a look for myself. This is my second summer in Portland. Last summer I felt very comfortable going downtown, the protesters were peaceful and respectful. I don't fell like I would be safe if I went downtown in the present environment. I don't doubt what you're saying about the Feds though. It is believable based on what I've seen (not just heard) on the news. Protecting federal buildings that the locals won't protect is one thing but roving the streets looking for random protesters is the local's job and rousting buses and food trucks is jackbooted thug territory.

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

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JALMOND wrote:Having lived in the area for 25+ years now, I can say that, a typical summer there are about 2-3 protests in Portland per week. Almost all are peaceful and very few result in any form of looting or violence. This federal "presence" is causing more agitation than necessary, with these federal "officers" utilizing brute strength in the streets. For what reason, I don't know. In the past, whatever protest that was going on, you could still go about your business downtown. Tri-met would still operate, using buses if the protests were blocking the routes. My co-worker told me that they were on one of these such buses and two white vans with Florida plates stopped it. Officials rushed the bus and ordered everyone inside to remove their masks. When told that wearing a mask on the bus was required, one of the officials got in their face and said "Shut the f*** up!!! Your requirement doesn't mean sh** here. We are the Feds!"

One instance I personally witnessed was two food trucks were operating in the Park Blocks near campus when two white vans came rushing up to them. Officials drug out the workers, handcuffed them, and put them in the back of one of the vans. That van left and the other officers stayed behind to "secure" the area, which I guess meant to help themselves to the food that was in both food trucks. After about 20 minutes, they took the rest of the food and left, leaving the trucks opened and unlocked.

These people are just escalating an already tense situation and need to go back to where they came from. Leave the enforcement to the local officials. If they need your help, they will ask for it.

Instead of following the news, go down and take a look for yourselves. You will feel like I do.
Sound exactly like just about every Fed task force I ever dealt with

The mentality pervades Federal LE

Only who it is used against changes


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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:44 am
kalm wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:59 am


OPB’s article on the matter. Portland doesn’t want the feds. Merkley and Mayor Wheeler are ramping up the political rhetoric. Nothing like cracking some hippie skulls. Are you small government/states rights libertarians ok with this?

https://www.opb.org/news/article/ted-wh ... ald-trump/

(Frankly, the Rose City has gone downhill ever since that ‘88 fella came to town)
You noticed that too? :D

The Mayor, Senator and Governor are appalled by the Fed's actions. Frankly so am I but I'm also appalled by the actions of the the rioters (they're not just protestors) and the state and local government's response to the rioting.
That’s fair.
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by UNI88 »

ACLU SUES FEDERAL AGENTS IN PORTLAND

ORGANIZATION SEEKS TO BLOCK FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ATTACKS ON JOURNALISTS, LEGAL OBSERVERS IN PORTLAND
“This is a fight to save our democracy,” said Kelly Simon, interim legal director with the ACLU of Oregon. “Under the direction of the Trump administration, federal agents are terrorizing the community, risking lives, and brutally attacking protesters demonstrating against police brutality. This is police escalation on top of police escalation. These federal agents must be stopped and removed from our city. We will continue to bring the full fire power of the ACLU to bear until this lawless policing ends.”
The Oregon ACLU is probably more liberal than most but if you're on the opposite side from the ACLU you're probably on the wrong side of history.
Last edited by UNI88 on Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by Ivytalk »

UNI88 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:59 pm
ACLU SUES FEDERAL AGENTS IN PORTLAND

ORGANIZATION SEEKS TO BLOCK FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ATTACKS ON JOURNALISTS, LEGAL OBSERVERS IN PORTLAND
“This is a fight to save our democracy,” said Kelly Simon, interim legal director with the ACLU of Oregon. “Under the direction of the Trump administration, federal agents are terrorizing the community, risking lives, and brutally attacking protesters demonstrating against police brutality. This is police escalation on top of police escalation. These federal agents must be stopped and removed from our city. We will continue to bring the full fire power of the ACLU to bear until this lawless policing ends.”
The Oregon ALCU is probably more liberal than most but if you're on the opposite side from the ACLU you're probably on the wrong side of history.
The ACLU has retreated notably on First Amendment cases in recent years, particularly after Charlottesville. Some speech is more worthy of protection than others, particularly if free expression is uttered by someone from a group not favored by the ACLU. It’s hard to see the ACLU of today defending a KKK member’s speech rights like it did half a century ago in Brandenburg v. Ohio, or the Skokie Nazis in 1978.
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by UNI88 »

Ivytalk wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:21 pm
UNI88 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:59 pm
ACLU SUES FEDERAL AGENTS IN PORTLAND

ORGANIZATION SEEKS TO BLOCK FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ATTACKS ON JOURNALISTS, LEGAL OBSERVERS IN PORTLAND

The Oregon ALCU is probably more liberal than most but if you're on the opposite side from the ACLU you're probably on the wrong side of history.
The ACLU has retreated notably on First Amendment cases in recent years, particularly after Charlottesville. Some speech is more worthy of protection than others, particularly if free expression is uttered by someone from a group not favored by the ACLU. It’s hard to see the ACLU of today defending a KKK member’s speech rights like it did half a century ago in Brandenburg v. Ohio, or the Skokie Nazis in 1978.
That's too bad. In this instance, I think they're probably in the right though.

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

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UNI88 wrote:ACLU SUES FEDERAL AGENTS IN PORTLAND

ORGANIZATION SEEKS TO BLOCK FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ATTACKS ON JOURNALISTS, LEGAL OBSERVERS IN PORTLAND
“This is a fight to save our democracy,” said Kelly Simon, interim legal director with the ACLU of Oregon. “Under the direction of the Trump administration, federal agents are terrorizing the community, risking lives, and brutally attacking protesters demonstrating against police brutality. This is police escalation on top of police escalation. These federal agents must be stopped and removed from our city. We will continue to bring the full fire power of the ACLU to bear until this lawless policing ends.”
The Oregon ACLU is probably more liberal than most but if you're on the opposite side from the ACLU you're probably on the wrong side of history.
Their record on 1st Amendment issues has become dismal in the last few years and I am proud to be on the other side of the fence from the ACLU on that issue
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by JohnStOnge »

kalm wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:59 am
BDKJMU wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:10 pm
Nothing will work with these YLF except an iron fist.
https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/na ... dfba4.html
OPB’s article on the matter. Portland doesn’t want the feds. Merkley and Mayor Wheeler are ramping up the political rhetoric. Nothing like cracking some hippie skulls. Are you small government/states rights libertarians ok with this?


https://www.opb.org/news/article/ted-wh ... ald-trump/
It's not a good look. And it's happening in the context of Trump going over the top with Authoritarian rhetoric. That might make it look worse than it otherwise would. We'll see what happens with the court cases.
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

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JohnStOnge wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:49 pm
kalm wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:59 am


OPB’s article on the matter. Portland doesn’t want the feds. Merkley and Mayor Wheeler are ramping up the political rhetoric. Nothing like cracking some hippie skulls. Are you small government/states rights libertarians ok with this?


https://www.opb.org/news/article/ted-wh ... ald-trump/
It's not a good look. And it's happening in the context of Trump going over the top with Authoritarian rhetoric. That might make it look worse than it otherwise would. We'll see what happens with the court cases.
Hell, I’m fine with letting the whole town burn, personally.
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

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:lol: :lol: :lol:


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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

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CID1990 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:40 am
JALMOND wrote:Having lived in the area for 25+ years now, I can say that, a typical summer there are about 2-3 protests in Portland per week. Almost all are peaceful and very few result in any form of looting or violence. This federal "presence" is causing more agitation than necessary, with these federal "officers" utilizing brute strength in the streets. For what reason, I don't know. In the past, whatever protest that was going on, you could still go about your business downtown. Tri-met would still operate, using buses if the protests were blocking the routes. My co-worker told me that they were on one of these such buses and two white vans with Florida plates stopped it. Officials rushed the bus and ordered everyone inside to remove their masks. When told that wearing a mask on the bus was required, one of the officials got in their face and said "Shut the f*** up!!! Your requirement doesn't mean sh** here. We are the Feds!"

One instance I personally witnessed was two food trucks were operating in the Park Blocks near campus when two white vans came rushing up to them. Officials drug out the workers, handcuffed them, and put them in the back of one of the vans. That van left and the other officers stayed behind to "secure" the area, which I guess meant to help themselves to the food that was in both food trucks. After about 20 minutes, they took the rest of the food and left, leaving the trucks opened and unlocked.

These people are just escalating an already tense situation and need to go back to where they came from. Leave the enforcement to the local officials. If they need your help, they will ask for it.

Instead of following the news, go down and take a look for yourselves. You will feel like I do.
Sound exactly like just about every Fed task force I ever dealt with

The mentality pervades Federal LE

Only who it is used against changes


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Yep, It's the Fed's fault that the protests are violent.

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by kalm »

JALMOND wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:57 am
Having lived in the area for 25+ years now, I can say that, a typical summer there are about 2-3 protests in Portland per week. Almost all are peaceful and very few result in any form of looting or violence. This federal "presence" is causing more agitation than necessary, with these federal "officers" utilizing brute strength in the streets. For what reason, I don't know. In the past, whatever protest that was going on, you could still go about your business downtown. Tri-met would still operate, using buses if the protests were blocking the routes. My co-worker told me that they were on one of these such buses and two white vans with Florida plates stopped it. Officials rushed the bus and ordered everyone inside to remove their masks. When told that wearing a mask on the bus was required, one of the officials got in their face and said "Shut the f*** up!!! Your requirement doesn't mean sh** here. We are the Feds!"

One instance I personally witnessed was two food trucks were operating in the Park Blocks near campus when two white vans came rushing up to them. Officials drug out the workers, handcuffed them, and put them in the back of one of the vans. That van left and the other officers stayed behind to "secure" the area, which I guess meant to help themselves to the food that was in both food trucks. After about 20 minutes, they took the rest of the food and left, leaving the trucks opened and unlocked.

These people are just escalating an already tense situation and need to go back to where they came from. Leave the enforcement to the local officials. If they need your help, they will ask for it.

Instead of following the news, go down and take a look for yourselves. You will feel like I do.
I missed this post. Good god that’s fucked up. :ohno:

Mom’s are now getting involved...Until they tear gassed them as well.
A group of more than 30 moms created a barricade to protect hundreds of protesters from federal officers during demonstrations against police brutality and racism in Portland, Oregon on Saturday.

Viral videos and photos on social media showed around three dozen mothers — dressed in white and wearing bike helmets — linking arms and chanting, “Feds stay clear! Moms are here!” and “Leave our kids alone” at a protest outside a federal courthouse.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... l-officers
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:47 am
JALMOND wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:57 am
Having lived in the area for 25+ years now, I can say that, a typical summer there are about 2-3 protests in Portland per week. Almost all are peaceful and very few result in any form of looting or violence. This federal "presence" is causing more agitation than necessary, with these federal "officers" utilizing brute strength in the streets. For what reason, I don't know. In the past, whatever protest that was going on, you could still go about your business downtown. Tri-met would still operate, using buses if the protests were blocking the routes. My co-worker told me that they were on one of these such buses and two white vans with Florida plates stopped it. Officials rushed the bus and ordered everyone inside to remove their masks. When told that wearing a mask on the bus was required, one of the officials got in their face and said "Shut the f*** up!!! Your requirement doesn't mean sh** here. We are the Feds!"

One instance I personally witnessed was two food trucks were operating in the Park Blocks near campus when two white vans came rushing up to them. Officials drug out the workers, handcuffed them, and put them in the back of one of the vans. That van left and the other officers stayed behind to "secure" the area, which I guess meant to help themselves to the food that was in both food trucks. After about 20 minutes, they took the rest of the food and left, leaving the trucks opened and unlocked.

These people are just escalating an already tense situation and need to go back to where they came from. Leave the enforcement to the local officials. If they need your help, they will ask for it.

Instead of following the news, go down and take a look for yourselves. You will feel like I do.
I missed this post. Good god that’s fucked up. :ohno:

Mom’s are now getting involved...Until they tear gassed them as well.
A group of more than 30 moms created a barricade to protect hundreds of protesters from federal officers during demonstrations against police brutality and racism in Portland, Oregon on Saturday.

Viral videos and photos on social media showed around three dozen mothers — dressed in white and wearing bike helmets — linking arms and chanting, “Feds stay clear! Moms are here!” and “Leave our kids alone” at a protest outside a federal courthouse.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... l-officers
But of course....the helicopter moms are here!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

They don't realize they're the fucking root CAUSE of this whole problem... :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by Winterborn »

Ivytalk wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:21 pm
UNI88 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:59 pm
ACLU SUES FEDERAL AGENTS IN PORTLAND

ORGANIZATION SEEKS TO BLOCK FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ATTACKS ON JOURNALISTS, LEGAL OBSERVERS IN PORTLAND



The Oregon ALCU is probably more liberal than most but if you're on the opposite side from the ACLU you're probably on the wrong side of history.
The ACLU has retreated notably on First Amendment cases in recent years, particularly after Charlottesville. Some speech is more worthy of protection than others, particularly if free expression is uttered by someone from a group not favored by the ACLU. It’s hard to see the ACLU of today defending a KKK member’s speech rights like it did half a century ago in Brandenburg v. Ohio, or the Skokie Nazis in 1978.
The ACLU has definitely started picking areas they want to support and it usually follows down a particular line of thinking. But every now and then they do take a case that surprises me. They do good work for the most part, just not as good as they used to and it is trending away from that high point (disappointing but it happens with different leadership in place).
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:31 am
Ivytalk wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:21 pm

The ACLU has retreated notably on First Amendment cases in recent years, particularly after Charlottesville. Some speech is more worthy of protection than others, particularly if free expression is uttered by someone from a group not favored by the ACLU. It’s hard to see the ACLU of today defending a KKK member’s speech rights like it did half a century ago in Brandenburg v. Ohio, or the Skokie Nazis in 1978.
The ACLU has definitely started picking areas they want to support and it usually follows down a particular line of thinking. But every now and then they do take a case that surprises me. They do good work for the most part, just not as good as they used to and it is trending away from that high point (disappointing but it happens with different leadership in place).
The solution is obvious - the ACLU needs to put me in charge! :D

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:47 am
Winterborn wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:31 am


The ACLU has definitely started picking areas they want to support and it usually follows down a particular line of thinking. But every now and then they do take a case that surprises me. They do good work for the most part, just not as good as they used to and it is trending away from that high point (disappointing but it happens with different leadership in place).
The solution is obvious - the ACLU needs to put me in charge! :D
We are different on a couple of technicalities in some areas but you do your best to remain impartial, so you have my vote. :thumb:
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by UNI88 »

Now they're beating and pepper spraying a 50 year old Navy vet without apparent provocation other than harsh words about their oaths to the Constitution ...

Last edited by UNI88 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:15 pm
Now they're beating and pepper spraying a 50 year old Navy vet without apparent provocation other than harsh words about their oaths to the Constitution ...

Gettin ugly out there. States rights...limited government, right to protest and such..
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 pm
UNI88 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:15 pm
Now they're beating and pepper spraying a 50 year old Navy vet without apparent provocation other than harsh words about their oaths to the Constitution ...

Gettin ugly out there. States rights...limited government, right to protest and such..
:nod: & :ohno: Are they wearing anything like a name badge or number so that they can be identified for trial later?

CID, is there any legitimate reason that a federal officer not working undercover shouldn't be identifiable?

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:19 pm
kalm wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 pm


Gettin ugly out there. States rights...limited government, right to protest and such..
:nod: & :ohno: Are they wearing anything like a name badge or number so that they can be identified for trial later?

CID, is there any legitimate reason that a federal officer not working undercover shouldn't be identifiable?
Can’t be very fun for local LE. Armed cosplay Uber patriots or federal officers?
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:58 am
UNI88 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:19 pm


:nod: & :ohno: Are they wearing anything like a name badge or number so that they can be identified for trial later?

CID, is there any legitimate reason that a federal officer not working undercover shouldn't be identifiable?
Can’t be very fun for local LE. Armed cosplay Uber patriots or federal officers?
I am not coming to the side of the Feds at all here but a good chunk of the blame rests on the local politicians feet due to the culture they have fostered for the last decade or so. When you encourage a certain type of behavior for years and in each consecutive year, a blind eye is turned to more and more areas while doing whatever possible to hamstring the individuals that are in place to keep certain behavior in check. There will be a point where the boundaries cannot be pushed any more.
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kalm
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:46 am
kalm wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:58 am


Can’t be very fun for local LE. Armed cosplay Uber patriots or federal officers?
I am not coming to the side of the Feds at all here but a good chunk of the blame rests on the local politicians feet due to the culture they have fostered for the last decade or so. When you encourage a certain type of behavior for years and in each consecutive year, a blind eye is turned to more and more areas while doing whatever possible to hamstring the individuals that are in place to keep certain behavior in check. There will be a point where the boundaries cannot be pushed any more.
Agreed...which also dovetails with mandates for wearing masks and stay at home orders.
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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by UNI88 »

Winterborn wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:46 am
kalm wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:58 am

Can’t be very fun for local LE. Armed cosplay Uber patriots or federal officers?
I am not coming to the side of the Feds at all here but a good chunk of the blame rests on the local politicians feet due to the culture they have fostered for the last decade or so. When you encourage a certain type of behavior for years and in each consecutive year, a blind eye is turned to more and more areas while doing whatever possible to hamstring the individuals that are in place to keep certain behavior in check. There will be a point where the boundaries cannot be pushed any more.
My perspective is that the feds weren't invited. They're overstepping their bounds. They don't appear to be identifiable so they probably can't be charged with any crimes that they commit. As federal officers haven't they taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution? Are they really upholding the Bill of Rights or are we veering into jack booted authoritarian territory?

No doubt the mayor, governor and rioters have also fvcked this up. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm appalled by all of them. My sister texted me yesterday to see if I was safe. I assumed she was talking about the virus but she meant the protests/riots. I told her that "I won't go anywhere near downtown right now. Ironically, I don't think it's safe for me." It isn't safe for me not just because of the risk from the jack booted feds but also because of the protesters. I'm a middle-aged white male, the subject of much of their ire. It's ironic because I wonder if this is what an African American felt going into a "forbidden" area in the past. Are protestors attempting to swing the pendulum too far in the opposite direction and to trade one set of fears and oppression for another?

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Re: Hey Seattle and Portland.....

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:49 am
Winterborn wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:46 am


I am not coming to the side of the Feds at all here but a good chunk of the blame rests on the local politicians feet due to the culture they have fostered for the last decade or so. When you encourage a certain type of behavior for years and in each consecutive year, a blind eye is turned to more and more areas while doing whatever possible to hamstring the individuals that are in place to keep certain behavior in check. There will be a point where the boundaries cannot be pushed any more.
Agreed...which also dovetails with mandates for wearing masks and stay at home orders.
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