Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by andy7171 »

Oh hells yes! Clenzy is here!

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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

SDHornet wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 am
houndawg wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:17 am

What a fucking halfwit.

It was a straight up execution of a suspect with his hands cuffed behind his back and over 500 lbs. of dead weight on him. Even the cops are thinking so out loud.
So the fentanyl in Floyd's system had no impact on his ability to breathe?

Also I think the cop weighed about 145 lbs plus whatever gear he had on. 500 lbs? Didn't you take a physics class once-upon-a-time?
3 officers

If you'd have listened to any of the testimony you'd know the fact they kept him in the prone position on his stomach is a major fucking no no. Then combine it with keeping him there while in cuffs and having 3 officers on him.

It wasn't the drugs that caused him to die.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

andy7171 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:17 am Oh hells yes! Clenzy is here!

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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Gil Dobie »

89Hen wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:00 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:45 am

You didn't, that's my point. The topic is about mistreatment of African Americans by our system.
I thought we were having 3, 4 or 5 different discussions.

Sorry you don't want to address more than one at a time.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by SDHornet »

clenz wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:35 am
SDHornet wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 am

So the fentanyl in Floyd's system had no impact on his ability to breathe?

Also I think the cop weighed about 145 lbs plus whatever gear he had on. 500 lbs? Didn't you take a physics class once-upon-a-time?
3 officers

If you'd have listened to any of the testimony you'd know the fact they kept him in the prone position on his stomach is a major fucking no no. Then combine it with keeping him there while in cuffs and having 3 officers on him.

It wasn't the drugs that caused him to die.
All 3 officers were on his neck? Who knew?

Glad you know the drugs played no part even though science would suggest otherwise.

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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

New witness is Dr. Daniel S. Isenschmid, NMS Laboratory – Horsham, PA.

That's the same lab where the last witness from yesterday works.


Dr. Isenschmid tested George Floyd's blood at the request of the Hennepin County Medical Examiner.

He said the amount of meth found in Floyd was about the same as taking one dose.


Dr. Smock: "Mr Floyd died from positional asphyxia, which is a fancy way of saying he died because he had no oxygen left in his body."


Dr. Smock is a police surgeon for the Louisville Police Department.

Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell is questioning him on the "controversial diagnosis" of excited delirium.

Dr. Smock testifies that in his opinion, it is real.

But saying Floyd did not have it.

"I saw absolutely no evidence of it," Smock said.

Smock testifies that Floyd is not going through a drug overdose.

"That is not a fentanyl overdose. That is someone begging to breathe."



















So.....you don't want to believe me or literally the doctors and paramedics that treated/tested him and have reviewed (extensively) his medical condition at the time of death. There's literally nothing to convince you that he wasn't going to die just sitting that the van if the police never approached him is there>?

What you are claiming is George Floyd was going to die by 9PM that night regardless if he was put in a dangerous position that is not allowed and known to cause breathing issues, and have 180 lbs of a police officer on his neck and chest.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by SeattleGriz »

Reading the prosecution's use of force expert was a total trainwreck today. The defense questioned him around 65% more than the prosecution. That never looks good.

What's this I hear about body cam footage "appearing" to show Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's shoulder blade and not neck?
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by CID1990 »

The prolonged knee to the neck is an absolute no-no. Police have known about positional asphyxia for literally forever. There is no way Chauvin’s training taught him that was an appropriate use of force.

I do not think Chauvin intended to kill the guy on a public street full of cameras. I also do not know if Chauvin was a racist and I don’t care. What I do know is that he was dangerously heavy handed, his prior record seems to back that up, and he had no business being on the streets. We can all thank the public service union that bargained collectively with the equally culpable City of Minneapolis city council to make it so cops like Chauvin are still out there, practicing their awful judgment every day. The guy would not have lasted at my old department past his first couple complaints. Reuben Greenberg would have put him indoors or fired him outright - because he could.


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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Gil Dobie »

Yesterdays testimony from Fox News

George Floyd died of a lack of oxygen from being pinned to the pavement with a knee on his neck, a medical expert testified at former officer Derek Chauvin’s murder trial Thursday, emphatically rejecting the defense theory that Floyd's drug use and underlying health problems were what killed him.

"A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died," said prosecution witness Dr. Martin Tobin, a lung and critical care specialist at the Edward Hines Jr. VA Hospital and Loyola University’s medical school in Illinois.

Using easy-to-understand language to explain medical concepts and even loosening his necktie to make a point, Tobin told the jury that Floyd's breathing was severely constricted while Chauvin and two other officers held the 46-year-old Black man down on his stomach last May with his hands cuffed behind him and his face jammed against the ground.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

SeattleGriz wrote:Reading the prosecution's use of force expert was a total trainwreck today. The defense questioned him around 65% more than the prosecution. That never looks good.

What's this I hear about body cam footage "appearing" to show Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's shoulder blade and not neck?
It wasn’t a train wreck unless you’re pulling for Chauvin to get off


The defense had cherry picked still frames from as the paramedics arrived and Chauvin moved his knee so a pulse could be taken.

For every still shot from a video they have there is 9:29 seconds of video proof from about 8 different angles showing it directly across his neck


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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by SeattleGriz »

clenz wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:02 am
SeattleGriz wrote:Reading the prosecution's use of force expert was a total trainwreck today. The defense questioned him around 65% more than the prosecution. That never looks good.

What's this I hear about body cam footage "appearing" to show Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's shoulder blade and not neck?
It wasn’t a train wreck unless you’re pulling for Chauvin to get off


The defense had cherry picked still frames from as the paramedics arrived and Chauvin moved his knee so a pulse could be taken.

For every still shot from a video they have there is 9:29 seconds of video proof from about 8 different angles showing it directly across his neck


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Any time a you are deemed an expert and the opposing side (defense) questions you more than the side paying you to be there, that is a problem. That means the opposing side felt they were able to show his lack of credibility.

The article I read was from a lawyer who watched the trial. His main point was that while the expert was likeable, it was his first time in such a role and it showed. He apparently said he didn't know multiple times to basic "expert" questions and then helped the defense out by agreeing to what the defense was saying.

The author didn't understand why the prosecution would bring in a brand new expert instead of one that had been around the block. The expert hurt the prosecution.

As for the knee, thanks for the update. It wasn't clear if they were saying the whole time, or just pieces.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

All you need to do is watch the video or see any photo that isn't from a defense team and you can see exactly where the knee is

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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Gil Dobie »

Puzzle why people would root for Chauvin.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

Gil Dobie wrote:Puzzle why people would root for Chauvin.
White cop

Or

Black man who dared do a drug

This case has actually made it REAL easy to see the reasons people root for him


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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by UNI88 »

clenz wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:11 pm
Gil Dobie wrote:Puzzle why people would root for Chauvin.
White cop

Or

Black man who dared do a drug

This case has actually made it REAL easy to see the reasons people root for him

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I'm not rooting for him. I want them to throw the book at him.

I do question the aftermath of his death - the protests were justified. The riots and looting were not and the leaders who condoned or encouraged them should be held just as accountable as those that condoned or encouraged the Capitol riot.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by AZGrizFan »

clenz wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:11 pm
Gil Dobie wrote:Puzzle why people would root for Chauvin.
White cop

Or

Black man who dared do a drug

This case has actually made it REAL easy to see the reasons people root for him


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I hope he fries.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:34 pm
clenz wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:11 pm
White cop

Or

Black man who dared do a drug

This case has actually made it REAL easy to see the reasons people root for him

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I'm not rooting for him. I want them to throw the book at him.

I do question the aftermath of his death - the protests were justified. The riots and looting were not and the leaders who condoned or encouraged them should be held just as accountable as those that condoned or encouraged the Capitol riot.
This. I'm not cheering for the cops, fuck cops. I am absolutely loving the blm narratives about this whole ordeal completely implode and people understanding that all that rioting was incited by lies and false narratives. Curious to see the level of rioting seen when this is all over, 'cause there will be rioting no matter what the outcome.

Oh, and:

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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by bobbythekidd »

SDHornet wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:00 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:34 pm

I'm not rooting for him. I want them to throw the book at him.

I do question the aftermath of his death - the protests were justified. The riots and looting were not and the leaders who condoned or encouraged them should be held just as accountable as those that condoned or encouraged the Capitol riot.
This. I'm not cheering for the cops, fuck cops. I am absolutely loving the blm narratives about this whole ordeal completely implode and people understanding that all that rioting was incited by lies and false narratives. Curious to see the level of rioting seen when this is all over, 'cause there will be rioting no matter what the outcome.

Oh, and:

That comment is just a snippet of what he said. He said if he had found him home alone and dead; the ME would have to rule that it was the drugs because there isn't anything else that influenced the death. THAT WASN'T THE CASE HERE SO I KNOW WHAT CAUSED THE DEATH.

The cop is going down because he and a couple others killed a man. The others better go down as well. You need to shut the hell up because you are wrong here.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by clenz »

BTK already nailed it but


Was he at home?
Was he found dead on the couch watching TV?

Would it be ruled a drug overdose if he was shot outside of Cup Food? I mean the same thing could be said by a ME at that point as well - Well if he was at home and wasn't shot then I guess I would have to call it a drug overdose.

It's the same type of bullshit defense I pointed out has been made all along by Nelson. "In a magical hypothetical world where the situation is completely different, would it be justified to do X, Y and Z?". The witness HAS to answer "Yes, in that case it would have been proper for Chauvin to do X, Y, and Z" all while not being able to add on "But that isn't what was fucking happening was it, you fucking dick shit."

Which is why the prosecution comes back with a re-direct and ask the witness "You were told to answer on a very specific hypothetical situation, but that isn't the situation that we saw play out is it?"

Again, if you've watched the case it's easier to form an opinion of what is actually said. I'm lucky enough that I have a job/life where I'm able to have it on in the background while I work every day. I did the same thing with the Treyvon Martin/George Zimmerman case.

The whole "the defense questioned longer and that's a problem" isn't really true when the defenses line of questioning is literally just making up a dozen situations that don't exist and asking those situations to be spoken about and/or asking horribly misleading/confusing/argumentative questions and being told to rephrase or prove the foundation for the question on half of the questions.


Also yes, that guy did conveniently clip the statement made - and looking back through his tweets he is FAR FAR FAR from unbiased and able to look at the case clearly. I mean, from the tweets I have time to scroll through. He sends/retweets about 1000 tweets a day. He's the definition of live on Twitter and only get information and opinion built through the echo chamber you build on that site. That's not really an embellishment. That account is a week old and not including retweets, has racked up an average of 250-300 tweets per day and racked up about a thousand tweets he's liked. Solid Q foundation under him - and running him through various bot style algorythyms have him solidly in the troll/echo chamber side of things for a score
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by AZGrizFan »

clenz wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:36 pm BTK already nailed it but


Was he at home?
Was he found dead on the couch watching TV?

Would it be ruled a drug overdose if he was shot outside of Cup Food? I mean the same thing could be said by a ME at that point as well - Well if he was at home and wasn't shot then I guess I would have to call it a drug overdose.

It's the same type of bullshit defense I pointed out has been made all along by Nelson. "In a magical hypothetical world where the situation is completely different, would it be justified to do X, Y and Z?". The witness HAS to answer "Yes, in that case it would have been proper for Chauvin to do X, Y, and Z" all while not being able to add on "But that isn't what was fucking happening was it, you fucking dick shit."

Which is why the prosecution comes back with a re-direct and ask the witness "You were told to answer on a very specific hypothetical situation, but that isn't the situation that we saw play out is it?"

Again, if you've watched the case it's easier to form an opinion of what is actually said. I'm lucky enough that I have a job/life where I'm able to have it on in the background while I work every day. I did the same thing with the Treyvon Martin/George Zimmerman case.

The whole "the defense questioned longer and that's a problem" isn't really true when the defenses line of questioning is literally just making up a dozen situations that don't exist and asking those situations to be spoken about and/or asking horribly misleading/confusing/argumentative questions and being told to rephrase or prove the foundation for the question on half of the questions.


Also yes, that guy did conveniently clip the statement made - and looking back through his tweets he is FAR FAR FAR from unbiased and able to look at the case clearly. I mean, from the tweets I have time to scroll through. He sends/retweets about 1000 tweets a day. He's the definition of live on Twitter and only get information and opinion built through the echo chamber you build on that site. That's not really an embellishment. That account is a week old and not including retweets, has racked up an average of 250-300 tweets per day and racked up about a thousand tweets he's liked. Solid Q foundation under him - and running him through various bot style algorythyms have him solidly in the troll/echo chamber side of things for a score
You don’t sound too unbiased either, bro.

And I hope he fries.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by bobbythekidd »

Someone else said it like this...
If I drank 4 martinis and someone kneels on my neck for 9 minutes, it wasn't the martinis that killed me.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Pwns »

Meanwhile, it will take many years for the number of unjustifiable killings of black people by police to catch up with the spike in homicide deaths almost surely stemming from local and state antagonization of police. The same kind that happened after Michael Brown was killed.

And it'll all be ignored because you can't build "waycism" narratives when black men are a vastly bigger danger to black men than police.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by Gil Dobie »

Pwns wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:46 am Meanwhile, it will take many years for the number of unjustifiable killings of black people by police to catch up with the spike in homicide deaths almost surely stemming from local and state antagonization of police. The same kind that happened after Michael Brown was killed.

And it'll all be ignored because you can't build "waycism" narratives when black men are a vastly bigger danger to black men than police.
Who do the people in these neighborhoods, with the violent crime call, when they see a crime? They don't call the cops, because they don't trust them, due the bias they have experienced. If we had better cops, that the community trusted, maybe the criminals would get caught after the first violent crime and not the 10th, or maybe even think twice about committing the crime. Police unions for one, have kept crappy cops like Chauvin, 18 complaints in 19 years, on the street. I tend to agree with Cleets, pay the cops more, and you will get better candidates and give them better training to start with.

There have been several studies that show Blacks are arrested more often, given longer sentences, higher bail and higher fines, that Whites that commit the same crime.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by SeattleGriz »

clenz wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:36 pm BTK already nailed it but


Was he at home?
Was he found dead on the couch watching TV?

Would it be ruled a drug overdose if he was shot outside of Cup Food? I mean the same thing could be said by a ME at that point as well - Well if he was at home and wasn't shot then I guess I would have to call it a drug overdose.

It's the same type of bullshit defense I pointed out has been made all along by Nelson. "In a magical hypothetical world where the situation is completely different, would it be justified to do X, Y and Z?". The witness HAS to answer "Yes, in that case it would have been proper for Chauvin to do X, Y, and Z" all while not being able to add on "But that isn't what was fucking happening was it, you fucking dick shit."

Which is why the prosecution comes back with a re-direct and ask the witness "You were told to answer on a very specific hypothetical situation, but that isn't the situation that we saw play out is it?"

Again, if you've watched the case it's easier to form an opinion of what is actually said. I'm lucky enough that I have a job/life where I'm able to have it on in the background while I work every day. I did the same thing with the Treyvon Martin/George Zimmerman case.

The whole "the defense questioned longer and that's a problem" isn't really true when the defenses line of questioning is literally just making up a dozen situations that don't exist and asking those situations to be spoken about and/or asking horribly misleading/confusing/argumentative questions and being told to rephrase or prove the foundation for the question on half of the questions.


Also yes, that guy did conveniently clip the statement made - and looking back through his tweets he is FAR FAR FAR from unbiased and able to look at the case clearly. I mean, from the tweets I have time to scroll through. He sends/retweets about 1000 tweets a day. He's the definition of live on Twitter and only get information and opinion built through the echo chamber you build on that site. That's not really an embellishment. That account is a week old and not including retweets, has racked up an average of 250-300 tweets per day and racked up about a thousand tweets he's liked. Solid Q foundation under him - and running him through various bot style algorythyms have him solidly in the troll/echo chamber side of things for a score
:lol: Fuck sakes dude. Way to try and blow out of proportion what I said about the expert witness. The guy was likeable, but obviously new to the role. If this is such a landmark case, then why not get someone more experienced.

Besides, if this case hinges on the testimony of one underpowered expert on police abuse, this trial has bigger problems.
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Re: Here We Go Again (Minneapolis, MN)

Post by AZGrizFan »

Gil Dobie wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:49 am
Pwns wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:46 am Meanwhile, it will take many years for the number of unjustifiable killings of black people by police to catch up with the spike in homicide deaths almost surely stemming from local and state antagonization of police. The same kind that happened after Michael Brown was killed.

And it'll all be ignored because you can't build "waycism" narratives when black men are a vastly bigger danger to black men than police.
Who do the people in these neighborhoods, with the violent crime call, when they see a crime? They don't call the cops, because they don't trust them, due the bias they have experienced. If we had better cops, that the community trusted, maybe the criminals would get caught after the first violent crime and not the 10th, or maybe even think twice about committing the crime. Police unions for one, have kept crappy cops like Chauvin, 18 complaints in 19 years, on the street. I tend to agree with Cleets, pay the cops more, and you will get better candidates and give them better training to start with.

There have been several studies that show Blacks are arrested more often, given longer sentences, higher bail and higher fines, that Whites that commit the same crime.
So basically, no matter what, it’s the COP’S fault. Brilliant.
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